Bubbler .vs. Circulator

[feb]

First off, let me apologize for jumping the gun a little bit. I know it's barely August and I haven't even started my Summer vacation yet but I wanted to get started early with this question so I can be prepared.

I just had some shorefront stairs put in which was a serious investment for me. Now I want to protect it. Even though the stairs weigh a couple of tons, I'm sure the ice is capable of doing some damage.

I searched the forum and found some discussions but wasn't able to get an answer based on my specific situation. Basically I want to protect the stairs that were just put in from being surrounded by thick ice. Thin ice is OK. It's basically 12' of shoreline with water depths between 1 and 4 feet.

Which would be best, a bubbler or a circulator, based on peoples' experiences? I suspect the shallow water may cause issues.

[Mink Islander]

As a practical matter, it seems like you could set a circulator in deeper water aimed towards your stairs and keep a larger area of open water including your stairs. A bubbler system could accomplish the same I would think.

[ACutAbove]

Do you also have a dock in this area that you would like to keep ice free? Is there something there to mount the bubbler or circulator to? Both would do the job, you could get a timer to run either one. Are you in a cove or on the open lake. More info would deffinatly be helpful....

[Lakegeezer]

Do snowmobilers use the lake as a trail near your steps? Some bubblers make the ice unsafe for a lot larger area than is required. You need to put a sign in the area to show it is unsafe. Some people use a red light as well. If its a heavy snowmobile area, think about how you can protect your steps while minimizing the melted area.

Oh - and thanks for bringing this up on a 90+ degree day. Talking about winter helps to take the edge off a bit.

[jimbob1603]

Yo Feb,
Both circulator and bubbler work well. But, bubbler is MUCH cheaper to run; bubbler has higher set up costs. I went the bubbler route and defend its application ...... while fully respecting the opinions of those who prefer a circulator.
J

[feb]

Thanks for the info jimbob. Based on your experience, do you think a bubbler would work in shallow water - say 2 - 4 feet?

[jimbob1603]

Feb,
I think a bubbler would work fine in two feet of water. They are so damn cheap to run, you can't afford not to use it! It costs me about $25 to run a 6 cfm compressor for the entire ice season.

In any case, always use a thermostat to control the compressor/circulator.

Check out the thread "De-Icers" by egatlake on 5-12-6 (http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ead.php?t=2434) You can see me rant & rave about the virtues of a bubbler. I can't dispute the additional work to set up a bubbler ..... but this kind of work is fun at the lake ..... actually, everything is fun at the lake!
J

[onthebay]

Last winter was the first time running a circulator through the winter. The electric bill was a bit more than I expected. It is on a timer but it seems like the previous owner had it set to run more time than not.
What times do others run their circulators. More at night than during the day? I am not up full time so I would rather error on the side of caution.

[jimbob1603]

I have my bubbler set up to run on a thermostat; on/off at 35/45. Ice formation is temperature dependent. I'll turn the whole gizmo on the first weekend in December and off the last weekend in March. I think it costs me less than $50 to run both compressors for the season.

[winifisherman]

For a number of years, I have used a thermostat that turns my ice eater on and off when set to 33 degrees; this has worked well and saved on the electric bill at the start and end of the winter when the temperatures are more frequently above freezing. However, I'm considering adding a timer on to it so that it will not run continuously when the temperature is at freezing or below. Does anybody else do this? Are there any rules of thumb, for how long to run an ice eater/bubbler?

Searching Winnipesaukee forum, I came up with the following two varied responses already:

1) "Setting the timer so the propeller runs for thirty minutes out of every two hours should be enough to maintain one's little ice-free zone. When the temperature is below 32, the thermostat switch is open, as well."

2) "I have mine on a 24 hour heavy duty timer set to turn on for 2 hours 3 times a day. keeps the piers clear and is cheaper to run than fixing the ice damage."

THANK YOU

[fatlazyless]

There's something like that, a timer & thermostat, in one unit for about $150. which is way way overpriced for what it is, but it does a good job. I have one, and it is reliable.

Probably, you could connect separate timer and separate thermostat and do it yourself.

If Wal-Mart sold a Chinese made version, it would cost something like 29.95. The trailer and dock store, whose name I forget, on Route 3 at the Meredith-Laconia line has them for about $150.

[Orion]

I have the circulator on running off a "gray box" timer near the dock with a thermostat in line also. I used it last year with no problems set at 8 hrs on and 16 hrs off. Probably could reduce further, but haven't tested. The thermostat comes on at 32 and goes off at 40 (would like to find one with a lower upper limit).

[Mink Islander]

I have 2 inline themostats (on each of 2 ice-eaters) that I found online hooked up to the typical grey box timer. I run mine for 1 hr on 2 hrs off typically. The thermo will save you some $$.

[Cobalt]

I currenty use two circulators that sit on the lake bottom. Less than three weeks ago, the area was ice free.

A shift in the wind blew in chunks of ice about three inches think, and less than a couple of hours later completely encased my dock and the entire area leading to the Long Island Bridge on the Marina side. The circulators were running at the time, and have been running since. The thick ice combined with below zero temps have been a challenge for the circulators to completely open the dock area.

My questions are: How effective would a bubbler be in this situation, and how noisy are the compessors?

Thanks.

[tis]

That's the problem Cobalt. Years ago we bubbled our dock but many springs the wind would shift the ice and back it would come, right into our dock. I once saw a wind smash ice into my neighbors dock and tip it right up. The ice had gone to the north, the dock was clear, the wind shifted to the south and whammo. The dock got it! With us anyway, we feel most of the damage is done when the ice is breaking up. So we haven't bothered for years and our dock has been no more nor no less damaged.

[DRH]

As several others have said, neither a bubbler or circulator will help once the ice starts to break up and blow around in the spring. But there are two primary benefits of keeping some open water around your dock during the winter.

First, the ice expands and contracts to a surprising degree. That's what causes ice ridges, where the ice will crack and one section will ride up over an adjacent section. That same expansion effect can crush a dock if the ice is allowed to freeze solid around the pilings. Even crib docks can be damaged by expanding ice, which has amazing power. I've seen cases where the expanding ice has even badly damaged large breakwaters, dislodging and moving huge rocks you wouldn't think could be moved.

Second, when the lake freezes solid around your dock, especially when the lake level is low, and the lake begins to rise in the spring before the ice melts, the rising ice can lift a frozen dock right off its pilings or cribs, or even lift the pilings themselves up out of the lake bottom.

Many docks not protected by a bubbler or circulator seem to go unscathed year after year, but I've seen enough docks that have been damaged by expanding and/or rising ice that I always try to keep some open water around our dock.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by feb

"...Which would be best, a bubbler or a circulator, based on peoples' experiences? I suspect the shallow water may cause issues..."

1) Call Winnipesaukee Aquatherm in Alton. They (he) provides a seasonal ice-protection service in the area and may be able to advise.

2) You may not need any ice protection: Are the stairs under water during the winter season? The lake is normally drained to a much lower level than summer.

3) Two new neighbors run their circulators to the point that water is cleared around my dock. I have both "gray-box" timers and thermostat, but may be able to unplug mine altogether!