electric heat alternatives

loony · 04-08-2004, 07:37 AM

I currently have a home with electric heat and hot water and the time has come to consider a cheaper alternative. I narrowed down my choices to between oil and propane. I would like to avoid the $$ of adding a chimney, so my preference is for a direct vented furnace in the basement. I also shut off the heat during the winter when not in use. The cheapest fuel, not including maintenance, appears to oil- see my analysis below ( Figures may be outdated).
I'm leaning towards forced hot water (anitfreeze in radiators) by oil with tankless hot water.
I'd like some opinions from others that have been through this already. I've read the direct vented oils furnaces may be problematic. Any experiences?
I'm open to any new ideas or suggestions.
Anyone know of any heating contractors in the Meredith area???

I cant seem to attach my fuel comaprison chart-GUI wont let me add .jpg file-stay tuned

Eki · 04-08-2004, 07:53 AM

Adding anti-freeze to forced hot water system will indeed keep the pipes from freezing, but it also reduces the efficiency of the heating system. Anti freeze does not like to let go of the heat -- so you will get reduced output from your radiators.

Forced exhaust oil furnaces -- where the exhaust is forced outdoors can suffer from backdraft problems and generally is a very smelly solution.

You didnt mention if this is an island property, or mainland. Sounds to be seasonal. If thats the case, you're not really heating it that much in the winter time anyway -- so seems to me cost could be less of a concern then convenience? I would go with a propane system. Clean, quiet, convenient. you can get a tankless on demand propane water heater.

How big is the home? if it is only a couple of rooms -- you could even go with direct vent kerosene

loony · 04-08-2004, 08:11 AM

Great questions!!!

The home is on the mainland and has 3 bedrooms 2baths, kitchen, and an open living/dining area (cant remeber sq footage) . It is a year round home. I plan to live there for longer periods in the future. Full time neighbors complain bitterly about the cost of propane, and the difficulty in switching provders due to tank ownership, lease, & certification issues. I wish I could attach my comaprison chart.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eki

Adding anti-freeze to forced hot water system will indeed keep the pipes from freezing, but it also reduces the efficiency of the heating system. Anti freeze does not like to let go of the heat -- so you will get reduced output from your radiators.

Forced exhaust oil furnaces -- where the exhaust is forced outdoors can suffer from backdraft problems and generally is a very smelly solution.

You didnt mention if this is an island property, or mainland. Sounds to be seasonal. If thats the case, you're not really heating it that much in the winter time anyway -- so seems to me cost could be less of a concern then convenience? I would go with a propane system. Clean, quiet, convenient. you can get a tankless on demand propane water heater.

How big is the home? if it is only a couple of rooms -- you could even go with direct vent kerosene

Charlie T · 04-08-2004, 10:51 AM

I purchased a home in Gilford in 2001 with oil heat and a "power venter". The people I purchased the home from said they had been thru MANY heating service people and that it was hard to find one who could keep the venter working properly. They did give me the name of "the only guy who had made the system work right in 12 years". I have used him since the purchase. After the first year I decided the power vent system looked old and worn, and it was noisy as hell. I had the service guy install a brand new "state of the art"power venter that would be much more reliable and quiter. $2000.00 later, I have a pretty unit with the vent motor outside the house, I have the unit cleaned and adjusted each year and it works great........... for 4 weeks. After that time the system get noiser with each passing day. The blower wheel and mechanism get encrusted with combustion byproducts and need to be clean constantly. I have also had to replace the motor and blower wheel twice in the 2 winters I have used it. It is not a warm and fuzzy feeling knowing that you are relying on a piece of equiptment that few people carry replacement parts for on their truck. At this point I own a spare motor so that I am "not left out in the cold" when the unit dies. The moral to this story is if you want to use oil, put up a chiminey. Or would you like to buy a slightly used, very pretty, stainless steel top of the line Field Controls Corp power venter. It was only used on weekends by a little old lady.
Good Luck
Charlie T

kchace · 04-08-2004, 11:37 AM

I have done this also and went with a Forced Hot Air propane system for 2 main reasons. I chose forced hot air because I wanted the ability to turn the heat off when I want to (Or when mother nature decides to) and not have to worry about frozen heating pipes. It also heats the house faster - so the house heats up faster after turning it way down or off when I'm not there.
Oil heat has a hidden cost and that is regular maintenance visits - ever year or so @ $75-$125. Skip these and it won't be long before your efficiency drops off and then you'll have ignition problems. (been there - had all that)

I also agree with the smell issue. FHA oil does tend to smell a bit. There's also the issue of finding a place in your basement for the oil tank. Its possible to put them outside, but its not really a good idea because the fuel suffers from the moisture.

Propane furnaces require VERY little maintenance and are also CHEAPER!

Ken

meredith necker · 04-08-2004, 06:31 PM

This year they are promoting a heater that looks like the Monitor but runs on furnace oil. It vents outside and is advertised to be extremely efficient. I think they come in two sizes. We have a Monitor at our island property which is not insulated and it does a great job and no smell - it runs on kerosene. In a house as big as yours I would just go with a hot water furnace or maybe two of the heaters I was just telling you about. By the way if you use antifreeze you will have to replace it more often then you would think and it is not cheap.

KevinPlante · 04-08-2004, 09:21 PM

My vote goes to the Monitor kerosene heaters. They do an excellent job.

ITD · 04-09-2004, 08:09 AM

Your analysis on cost is good. I would choose oil based on the cost. Remember to do the maintenance yearly and you should have little problem. You should still have propane systems maintained although it is not as critical as oil. I like FHW because the heat is even and not drafty. I have a power vent in my non-lake home that has been very reliable (7 years so far) but it is noisy, I'm thinking about a chimney and would definately put a chimney in if I was doing it over again. The only reason I would not go with oil would be if I had to have the tank outdoors, fuel oil can jell in cold weather, you'd have to mix with kerosene (more money), otherwise oil is the way to go.

jrc · 04-09-2004, 09:01 AM

Monitor kerosene heaters work great in a small area, but if the area is large it is tough to keep the temperature even. It's too hot near the heater and too cold everywhere else.

In our house we have FHA, direct vent, propane. I'm not sure I would do it again. It's too noisy. FHA is noisy enough with the fan to distribute the heated air, but direct vent adds another fan to provide for combustion.

If you go direct vent, make sure the vent pipes are routed away from your bedroom and isolated from the house framing. Our seem to run right under our bed. Since we added some pipe insulation to dampen the noise it is much better but it is still there.

There is one last problem with direct vent, but it probably won't effect you due to your seasonal use. On the coldest days, we have had the vent intake clog up with frozen steam from the outlet. Some vent piping changes seem to have fixed, it but I won't know for sure until the next batch of -10 degree days.

meredith necker · 05-02-2004, 09:05 AM

I have heard that in some towns heaters which have their supply of fuel inside the building are now illegal; there again, sometimes because of liability , some installers won't do something that is not legal in one town even though it is legal in another.

04-08-2004, 07:37 AM	#1
loony Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 104 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts	electric heat alternatives I currently have a home with electric heat and hot water and the time has come to consider a cheaper alternative. I narrowed down my choices to between oil and propane. I would like to avoid the $$ of adding a chimney, so my preference is for a direct vented furnace in the basement. I also shut off the heat during the winter when not in use. The cheapest fuel, not including maintenance, appears to oil- see my analysis below ( Figures may be outdated). I'm leaning towards forced hot water (anitfreeze in radiators) by oil with tankless hot water. I'd like some opinions from others that have been through this already. I've read the direct vented oils furnaces may be problematic. Any experiences? I'm open to any new ideas or suggestions. Anyone know of any heating contractors in the Meredith area??? I cant seem to attach my fuel comaprison chart-GUI wont let me add .jpg file-stay tuned Attached Images Last edited by loony; 04-08-2004 at 01:32 PM.

04-08-2004, 10:51 AM	#4
Charlie T Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 306 Thanks: 256 Thanked 181 Times in 86 Posts	Direct Vent I purchased a home in Gilford in 2001 with oil heat and a "power venter". The people I purchased the home from said they had been thru MANY heating service people and that it was hard to find one who could keep the venter working properly. They did give me the name of "the only guy who had made the system work right in 12 years". I have used him since the purchase. After the first year I decided the power vent system looked old and worn, and it was noisy as hell. I had the service guy install a brand new "state of the art"power venter that would be much more reliable and quiter. $2000.00 later, I have a pretty unit with the vent motor outside the house, I have the unit cleaned and adjusted each year and it works great........... for 4 weeks. After that time the system get noiser with each passing day. The blower wheel and mechanism get encrusted with combustion byproducts and need to be clean constantly. I have also had to replace the motor and blower wheel twice in the 2 winters I have used it. It is not a warm and fuzzy feeling knowing that you are relying on a piece of equiptment that few people carry replacement parts for on their truck. At this point I own a spare motor so that I am "not left out in the cold" when the unit dies. The moral to this story is if you want to use oil, put up a chiminey. Or would you like to buy a slightly used, very pretty, stainless steel top of the line Field Controls Corp power venter. It was only used on weekends by a little old lady. Good Luck Charlie T

04-08-2004, 06:31 PM	#6
meredith necker Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: meredith neck and bear island Posts: 48 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	heater This year they are promoting a heater that looks like the Monitor but runs on furnace oil. It vents outside and is advertised to be extremely efficient. I think they come in two sizes. We have a Monitor at our island property which is not insulated and it does a great job and no smell - it runs on kerosene. In a house as big as yours I would just go with a hot water furnace or maybe two of the heaters I was just telling you about. By the way if you use antifreeze you will have to replace it more often then you would think and it is not cheap.

05-02-2004, 09:05 AM	#10
meredith necker Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: meredith neck and bear island Posts: 48 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Monitors I have heard that in some towns heaters which have their supply of fuel inside the building are now illegal; there again, sometimes because of liability , some installers won't do something that is not legal in one town even though it is legal in another.

04-08-2004, 07:53 AM	#2
Eki Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 26 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Adding anti-freeze to forced hot water system will indeed keep the pipes from freezing, but it also reduces the efficiency of the heating system. Anti freeze does not like to let go of the heat -- so you will get reduced output from your radiators. Forced exhaust oil furnaces -- where the exhaust is forced outdoors can suffer from backdraft problems and generally is a very smelly solution. You didnt mention if this is an island property, or mainland. Sounds to be seasonal. If thats the case, you're not really heating it that much in the winter time anyway -- so seems to me cost could be less of a concern then convenience? I would go with a propane system. Clean, quiet, convenient. you can get a tankless on demand propane water heater. How big is the home? if it is only a couple of rooms -- you could even go with direct vent kerosene

04-08-2004, 11:37 AM	#5
kchace Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Brookline and Moultonborough NH Posts: 100 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have done this also and went with a Forced Hot Air propane system for 2 main reasons. I chose forced hot air because I wanted the ability to turn the heat off when I want to (Or when mother nature decides to) and not have to worry about frozen heating pipes. It also heats the house faster - so the house heats up faster after turning it way down or off when I'm not there. Oil heat has a hidden cost and that is regular maintenance visits - ever year or so @ $75-$125. Skip these and it won't be long before your efficiency drops off and then you'll have ignition problems. (been there - had all that) I also agree with the smell issue. FHA oil does tend to smell a bit. There's also the issue of finding a place in your basement for the oil tank. Its possible to put them outside, but its not really a good idea because the fuel suffers from the moisture. Propane furnaces require VERY little maintenance and are also CHEAPER! Ken

04-08-2004, 09:21 PM	#7
KevinPlante Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Portsmouth, NH Posts: 49 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My vote goes to the Monitor kerosene heaters. They do an excellent job.

04-09-2004, 08:09 AM	#8
ITD Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonboro, NH Posts: 2,925 Thanks: 476 Thanked 691 Times in 387 Posts	Your analysis on cost is good. I would choose oil based on the cost. Remember to do the maintenance yearly and you should have little problem. You should still have propane systems maintained although it is not as critical as oil. I like FHW because the heat is even and not drafty. I have a power vent in my non-lake home that has been very reliable (7 years so far) but it is noisy, I'm thinking about a chimney and would definately put a chimney in if I was doing it over again. The only reason I would not go with oil would be if I had to have the tank outdoors, fuel oil can jell in cold weather, you'd have to mix with kerosene (more money), otherwise oil is the way to go.

04-09-2004, 09:01 AM	#9
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	Monitor kerosene heaters work great in a small area, but if the area is large it is tough to keep the temperature even. It's too hot near the heater and too cold everywhere else. In our house we have FHA, direct vent, propane. I'm not sure I would do it again. It's too noisy. FHA is noisy enough with the fan to distribute the heated air, but direct vent adds another fan to provide for combustion. If you go direct vent, make sure the vent pipes are routed away from your bedroom and isolated from the house framing. Our seem to run right under our bed. Since we added some pipe insulation to dampen the noise it is much better but it is still there. There is one last problem with direct vent, but it probably won't effect you due to your seasonal use. On the coldest days, we have had the vent intake clog up with frozen steam from the outlet. Some vent piping changes seem to have fixed, it but I won't know for sure until the next batch of -10 degree days.