Formula/SeaDoo Collision....details?

New Hampshire Native · 07-30-2005, 07:30 AM

Does anyone have any idea what happened with the 26' Formula and the SeaDoo Personal Watercraft out near Christmas Island?

upthesaukee · 07-30-2005, 09:32 AM

Here's one link: http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...024/-1/CITIZEN

New Hampshire Native · 07-30-2005, 06:37 PM

I was looking for more details than that article provided. I am sure tomorrow's Citizen will have more details.

Lakewinniboater · 08-01-2005, 08:45 AM

interesting how the reported named "performance boat" and "formula" for this accident.... however, when he mentioned the boat with the family in it near govenor's when the 16 year old hit his head there was no mention of the type of boat.

That sounds like bias reporting. If you're going to mention one type of boat ..... shouldn't it be that you name them all?

Sort of like in this article

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...045/-1/CITIZEN

Reader Opinion

Friday, July 29, 2005
Taken in by bill's supporters?

By JUDE FERA

I am writing in response to the article by Gordon Fraser detailing the Sunday boating accident in Tuftonboro, in which a woman was flipped out of the boat when the driver made a sharp turn over a large wake. Fraser described this as a "high-speed" accident and the boat as a "performance boat."

When called to account for this statement by another reader, he replied by e-mail that "My editors tell me that we, as a paper, would define "high speed" as anything over headway speed." This is tantamount to saying that a car traveling faster than an idle was traveling at "high speed." It also smacks of irresponsible and biased reporting.

There was another boating accident last Sunday in which a small aluminum boat flipped over a large wake. I assume that this boat was on plane. Why wasn't this reported as a "high-speed" accident, as the boat was traveling at over headway speed? Oh yes, there was a difference: that was just a boat, whereas the Tuftonboro incident was a "performance boat."

One can only gather that you are playing into the hands of WinnFABS in their campaign to drive performance boats off Winnipesaukee. This self-interest group has shamelessly turned the tragic death of Jack Hartman into a marketing tool to advance their elitist, narrow-minded agenda, and has clouded the debate over a Winni speed limit with the kind of misinformation as written by your reporter.

If you really want to help add information, as opposed to emotion, relating to safe boating on Winnipesaukee, you should be investigating who is creating these large wakes. I'm quite familiar with the area in Tuftonboro where Sunday's accident occurred. For 11 years I have watched ignorant and unskilled family boaters driving at what we would call "plow speeds" with bow up and stern deep, creating enormous wakes that endanger other boaters, docks and docked boats, and erode the shoreline.

Many times I have had to take evasive measure in my own small Scarab performance boat to prevent a crash, or worse, with one of these dangerous boaters who were traveling at "high speed" according to your standards. Perhaps the driver of the boat in the Tuftonboro accident had to do the same. That would put a completely different spin on that incident, and perhaps one that you would prefer not to report.

Bear Lover · 08-01-2005, 10:07 AM

I think Jude misunderstands the motives of the Winnfabs organizers. Many of the original Winnfabs are from Bear Island. Jack Hartman was a Bear Island resident, neighbor and friend of these people.

The motive behind the speed limit is to try and keep his tragedy from happening again. As it nearly did to Lloyd Smith.

Woodsy · 08-01-2005, 10:35 AM

Anybody getting hurt on a watercraft is a bad thing, regardless of what type it is. I am glad to hear the injuries were minor.

What we don't know (at least from the article) was who collided with whom. We will need to wait and see what the MP report has to say. We don't know what speeds they were traveling and a host of other details. If it is in fact a 26' Formula, (26' being the question) it was probably a more of a family style runabout/bowrider, not a high performance boat. Formula starts its high performance line called Fast3tech at 27'.

Now, that being said, you are responsible for the operation of your craft at all times, regardless of the ROW rules. You are required to change course or stop altogehter to avoid placing your vessel in harms way, even if you have the ROW.

Lets wait to pass judgement until the report is published....

Woodsy

ApS · 08-01-2005, 05:21 PM

What report would that be?

Who here has ever even SEEN a Marine Patrol Report?

Lakewinniboater · 08-02-2005, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Lover

I think Jude misunderstands the motives of the Winnfabs organizers. Many of the original Winnfabs are from Bear Island. Jack Hartman was a Bear Island resident, neighbor and friend of these people.

The motive behind the speed limit is to try and keep his tragedy from happening again. As it nearly did to Lloyd Smith.

I would hate for anyone to get hurt, let alone lose their lives. The Hartman incident was absolutely tragic!

However, that ISN"T what the house bill is about. That accident had absolutely nothing to do with Speed. All I wish is that everyone would start looking at the facts and look at responible alternatives.

One of the SMALLER lakes that institued a speed limit is now trying to change it. It isn't enforcible. Also, speed really is the smallest portion of the safety issue's on the lake.

As I have suggested in the past..... go out on a Saturday or Sunday.....take some notes on how many times people break the 150' rule, no wake and some other basics. Then look to see what type of boater/ boat the majority is from...... I think you may find it an eye opening experience.

Let's make the Lake safer...... but let's be realistic and but some more MP's on the lake to enforce current laws and reg's. Not institute more that aren't going to make a difference in safety. Let's all start volunteering some time to train boaters. Make an On the Water Driving Test.... something that makes some sense.

Lastly, lets NOT use a tragedy like Mr. Hartman and skew the issue.

Woodsy also has a GREAT point. We don't know what happened in this incident. Let's wait and see and be thankful that no one was more severely injured.

codeman671 · 08-02-2005, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Lover

I think Jude misunderstands the motives of the Winnfabs organizers. Many of the original Winnfabs are from Bear Island. Jack Hartman was a Bear Island resident, neighbor and friend of these people.

The motive behind the speed limit is to try and keep his tragedy from happening again. As it nearly did to Lloyd Smith.

I think that everyone is quite clear on the intentions of WINNFABs. No mystery there...

I did not have the pleasure of knowing Jack Hartman but it seems that he was well loved in the area and will always be missed. I do still however fail to see how a 25mph night time speed limit will solve what happened that fateful night. If the accident happened with a boat traveling 28mph how will this solve anything? It will not solve peoples inattentiveness behind the wheel nor will it curb BWI which are the main causes of the accident. Not speed...Not the type of boat...To me this is still a prejudice against the type of boat. More of a hidden agenda than WINNFAB's claims. Maybe even some sort of retaliation against the family since they still sell a brand of GFBL?? Who knows...

Bear Lover · 08-02-2005, 11:31 AM

You said it yourself, the boat was going 28 mph. This would have been illegal operation under HB162.

There is definitely a prejudices involved. I am prejudiced against boats that are to big, to fast, and to noisy for a crowded lake. But mostly I dislike the "get out of my way" attitude that can be displayed by any boater but is a serious problem when he is operating a GFBL.

I'm sure there are many high performance boat operators that are responsible and educated, it's a shame they are about to be hurt by this new law.

codeman671 · 08-02-2005, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Lover

You said it yourself, the boat was going 28 mph. This would have been illegal operation under HB162.

My point was to show that in all reality HB162 would not have prevented anything here, 3mph over even on the road is not easy to enforce and if not witnessed by an MP (which by sight alone would not be able to be determined nor would a boat that slow be radar'd anyhow) it would not be ticketable. Regardless the inexpensive speeding ticket that would have been handed out would not have saved a life. Would HB162 have saved that life??? People might argue that the Baja should not have been on the lake and that the bill would have kept it off the lake. What a crock! Wait and see...People do not have to and do not always have to drive GFBL's fast to enjoy them.

One prejudice of mine is against people that think that this bill is the absolute savior of Lake Winnipesaukee. Sorry to say it is not, it might deter a few people from speeding but true all-out speed was not an issue here or in any of the other accidents this year. My real prejudice is against non-educated or non-attentive boaters. We are responsible for our actions on the water as well as on land. This is where the problem lies and always has.

How about those big cruisers with their huge wakes? I witnessed a 38' fountain go by my place last weekend at what I would guess to be 60mph, the wake was minimal at most. Very flat, less than some of the water ski boats that pass every morning. A few minutes later a 32' cruiser went by and the wake from it tossed our boat around on our dock and just about swamped some swimmers next door. Will HB162 stop this? The boat was probably doing 25mph during the day and was further than 150 feet out.

B R · 08-02-2005, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Lover

I think Jude misunderstands the motives of the Winnfabs organizers. Many of the original Winnfabs are from Bear Island. Jack Hartman was a Bear Island resident, neighbor and friend of these people.

The motive behind the speed limit is to try and keep his tragedy from happening again. As it nearly did to Lloyd Smith.

my son heard from a marina employee (this is not fact but hearsay) that the PWC driver was looking for his friend behind him and when he turned around to see where he was headed, he ran into the boat. he said he actually ran into the side of the boat and started going under it. from this story, the PWC appears to be at fault.

the boat was a 260 SS; a 26 foot day boat, not a performance boat. most of the 260 SS's have a hard time going over 50 mph since they only have one engine.

i don't see how WinnFabs's would have saved or helped Lloyd with their legislation if these are indeed the circumstances surrounding the accident. please help me understand this.

07-30-2005, 07:30 AM	#1
New Hampshire Native Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Formula/SeaDoo Collision....details? Does anyone have any idea what happened with the 26' Formula and the SeaDoo Personal Watercraft out near Christmas Island?

07-30-2005, 09:32 AM	#2
upthesaukee Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Alton Bay Posts: 5,597 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 2,454 Thanked 1,979 Times in 1,080 Posts	Here's one link: http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...024/-1/CITIZEN __________________ I Live Here... I am always UPTHESAUKEE !!!!

07-30-2005, 06:37 PM	#3
New Hampshire Native Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Looking for more details than the Citizen.... I was looking for more details than that article provided. I am sure tomorrow's Citizen will have more details.

08-01-2005, 08:45 AM	#4
Lakewinniboater Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Westford, MA and Alton Bay, NH Posts: 225 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	interesting interesting how the reported named "performance boat" and "formula" for this accident.... however, when he mentioned the boat with the family in it near govenor's when the 16 year old hit his head there was no mention of the type of boat. That sounds like bias reporting. If you're going to mention one type of boat ..... shouldn't it be that you name them all? Sort of like in this article http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...045/-1/CITIZEN Reader Opinion Friday, July 29, 2005 Taken in by bill's supporters? By JUDE FERA I am writing in response to the article by Gordon Fraser detailing the Sunday boating accident in Tuftonboro, in which a woman was flipped out of the boat when the driver made a sharp turn over a large wake. Fraser described this as a "high-speed" accident and the boat as a "performance boat." When called to account for this statement by another reader, he replied by e-mail that "My editors tell me that we, as a paper, would define "high speed" as anything over headway speed." This is tantamount to saying that a car traveling faster than an idle was traveling at "high speed." It also smacks of irresponsible and biased reporting. There was another boating accident last Sunday in which a small aluminum boat flipped over a large wake. I assume that this boat was on plane. Why wasn't this reported as a "high-speed" accident, as the boat was traveling at over headway speed? Oh yes, there was a difference: that was just a boat, whereas the Tuftonboro incident was a "performance boat." One can only gather that you are playing into the hands of WinnFABS in their campaign to drive performance boats off Winnipesaukee. This self-interest group has shamelessly turned the tragic death of Jack Hartman into a marketing tool to advance their elitist, narrow-minded agenda, and has clouded the debate over a Winni speed limit with the kind of misinformation as written by your reporter. If you really want to help add information, as opposed to emotion, relating to safe boating on Winnipesaukee, you should be investigating who is creating these large wakes. I'm quite familiar with the area in Tuftonboro where Sunday's accident occurred. For 11 years I have watched ignorant and unskilled family boaters driving at what we would call "plow speeds" with bow up and stern deep, creating enormous wakes that endanger other boaters, docks and docked boats, and erode the shoreline. Many times I have had to take evasive measure in my own small Scarab performance boat to prevent a crash, or worse, with one of these dangerous boaters who were traveling at "high speed" according to your standards. Perhaps the driver of the boat in the Tuftonboro accident had to do the same. That would put a completely different spin on that incident, and perhaps one that you would prefer not to report. __________________ Wendy "Wasn't Me!"

08-01-2005, 05:21 PM	#7
ApS Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Florida (Sebring & Keys), Wolfeboro Posts: 5,938 Thanks: 2,205 Thanked 776 Times in 553 Posts	Huh? The MP's report? What report would that be? Who here has ever even SEEN a Marine Patrol Report?

08-01-2005, 10:07 AM	#5
Bear Lover Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 96 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I think Jude misunderstands the motives of the Winnfabs organizers. Many of the original Winnfabs are from Bear Island. Jack Hartman was a Bear Island resident, neighbor and friend of these people. The motive behind the speed limit is to try and keep his tragedy from happening again. As it nearly did to Lloyd Smith.

08-01-2005, 10:35 AM	#6
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,965 Thanks: 80 Thanked 979 Times in 440 Posts	Anybody getting hurt on a watercraft is a bad thing, regardless of what type it is. I am glad to hear the injuries were minor. What we don't know (at least from the article) was who collided with whom. We will need to wait and see what the MP report has to say. We don't know what speeds they were traveling and a host of other details. If it is in fact a 26' Formula, (26' being the question) it was probably a more of a family style runabout/bowrider, not a high performance boat. Formula starts its high performance line called Fast3tech at 27'. Now, that being said, you are responsible for the operation of your craft at all times, regardless of the ROW rules. You are required to change course or stop altogehter to avoid placing your vessel in harms way, even if you have the ROW. Lets wait to pass judgement until the report is published.... Woodsy

08-02-2005, 11:31 AM	#10
Bear Lover Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 96 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	You said it yourself, the boat was going 28 mph. This would have been illegal operation under HB162. There is definitely a prejudices involved. I am prejudiced against boats that are to big, to fast, and to noisy for a crowded lake. But mostly I dislike the "get out of my way" attitude that can be displayed by any boater but is a serious problem when he is operating a GFBL. I'm sure there are many high performance boat operators that are responsible and educated, it's a shame they are about to be hurt by this new law.