Man dives from boat, breaks neck and sues

[Doobs41378]

I was curious what you guys think of this article from a boat accident on Winnisquam. This is obviously only 1 side of the story but thought it might be a good discussion.

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx...or-broken-neck

[feb]

I saw this the other day as well. From what I got out of reading the article, he was asked to jump in and help anchor the boat. So you grab an anchor and jump in head first? The claim is he had never been there and wasn't instructed on how to jump in. That water is crystal clear, its painfully obvious its shallow, yet you dive in? Over and above feeling bad that this happened, I believe you have to take responsibility for your actions on this one.

I suspect its the insurance company forcing a lawsuit in hope of recovering some monies from the other guys insurance.

[ITD]

Yeah, if I had to guess it sounds like alcohol was involved. I would not let anyone jump off the front of my boat while it was moving period. And if I don't have any experienced hands I set the anchor myself, which involves stopping the boat, moving to the front of boat, tossing the anchor (which I pulled out of the locker in deep water, feeding out rode, cleating, and if necessary going back to the helm and backing to set the anchor. If the anchor is needs to be carried to shallow water I'll jump out and do that myself. Too many ways for the inexperienced to hurt themselves or mess up the boat.

[Hillcountry]

Once again, common sense escapes a large portion of the population...this should be thrown out of court.

[Doobs41378]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

Once again, common sense escapes a large portion of the population...this should be thrown out of court.

I agree, at what point do we take responsibility for ourselves?

[MAXUM]

I'm no lawyer but I'm finding it hard to understand the grounds of this lawsuit. Right or wrong the fact the driver of the boat gave the person who ultimately got injured permission to jump off the boat is irrelevant. The owner of the boat cannot take responsibility for hazards that may be present in the water (including shallow water) and since the accident did not happen in the boat I can't see where the insurance company could have been involved either. So I think it more appropriate the guy who got hurt needs to sue the sandbar not the boat owner.

Just as a side note - I understand the concept of pleading ignorance, but really there is ignorant and then there is retarded.

Agreed this should have been thrown out or court, it's a very sad story and an unfortunate accident. My guess is the guy getting sued probably has deep pockets so this looks like a classic case of gold digging and that is despicable. Be interesting to see how this plays out.

[ITD]

You know desperation makes people do thing they might not otherwise do. It also doesn't help to have ambulance chaser lawyers conditioning people and the jury pool with their ads with ideas like "if you have been injured you deserve compensation" like every accident is a chance to collect lottery type winnings.

[Donzi Minx]

Ah son of a Havud Lawyer......This country is suit happy.
And to tackle this level of maturity, I offer the following:

When in danger,
When in doubt,
Run in circles,
Scream and shout!

[DBreskin]

There's no mention of what type of boat was involved, but here's a theory:
if the boat was a pontoon boat, perhaps Brown was standing on the bow, outside the playpen, as they approached the sandbar. If Shaffer abruptly slowed the boat, Brown could have lost his balance and fallen forward into the water. This may have looked like a dive, even if it was accidental.

If Shaffer allowed Brown to stand on the bow of a pontoon boat while underway, she may be guilty of unsafe operation.

[SIKSUKR]

Its pretty clear the suit claims the defendant allowed the plaintiff to dive off the boat. Nowhere does it mention falling off. Throw it out.

[tbonies]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Its pretty clear the suit claims the defendant allowed the plaintiff to dive off the boat. Nowhere does it mention falling off. Throw it out.

So much for integrity.

[Bear Islander]

The skipper of a boat is responsible for the safety of his passengers. If you don't agree, do an internet search.

If you ask a passenger to jump in the water you are responsible. Even allowing them to jump in the water makes you responsible. If you tell them not to jump in, and they do it anyway, you may still be responsible.

If you ever end up being paralyzed you will find yourself in need a LOT of care. That care is going to cost you a LOT of money. The way you will get that money is legal action against anyone and everyone that might have insurance and/or deep pockets.

[tis]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

The skipper of a boat is responsible for the safety of his passengers. If you don't agree, do an internet search.

If you ask a passenger to jump in the water you are responsible. Even allowing them to jump in the water makes you responsible. If you tell them not to jump in, and they do it anyway, you may still be responsible.

If you ever end up being paralyzed you will find yourself in need a LOT of care. That care is going to cost you a LOT of money. The way you will get that money is legal action against anyone and everyone that might have insurance and/or deep pockets.

So the best thing to do is never, ever invite anyone to go for a boat ride with you. It's a sad world we live in, isn't it?

[ericnh]

Jumping into the water vs diving into the water was the injured persons decision... it still is an accident that occurred with boat use and that will ultimately lead to a settlement and hopefully cover the expenses for this poor guy to live as normal a life as possible.

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

The skipper of a boat is responsible for the safety of his passengers. If you don't agree, do an internet search.

If you ask a passenger to jump in the water you are responsible. Even allowing them to jump in the water makes you responsible. If you tell them not to jump in, and they do it anyway, you may still be responsible.

If you ever end up being paralyzed you will find yourself in need a LOT of care. That care is going to cost you a LOT of money. The way you will get that money is legal action against anyone and everyone that might have insurance and/or deep pockets.

[DickR]

While ultimately there could be some aspects to the case that do indeed give it merit, we'll never be free of frivolous, meritless cases clogging our courts until some changes are made to the way these are handled. I for one would like to see juries have vastly more power, so that in a case they judge to be really without merit and little more than an attempt to extort money from the defendant's insurance company, they could not only decide against the plaintiff but actually assess monetary penalties against both the plaintiff and his lawyer. The idea is that a lawyer who brings a case to court knowing fully that it has no merit ought to be censured in a way that will get his attention.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

I'm no lawyer but I'm finding it hard to understand the grounds of this lawsuit. Right or wrong the fact the driver of the boat gave the person who ultimately got injured permission to jump off the boat is irrelevant. The owner of the boat cannot take responsibility for hazards that may be present in the water (including shallow water) and since the accident did not happen in the boat I can't see where the insurance company could have been involved either. So I think it more appropriate the guy who got hurt needs to sue the sandbar not the boat owner.

Just as a side note - I understand the concept of pleading ignorance, but really there is ignorant and then there is retarded.

I think you assume, and maybe many of us do, that someone who has not spent a lot, or even a little, time on a boat has a basic knowledge of what is going on. We need to remember that even the concept of putting the engine in reverse to stop the boat is foreign to many guests.

As the operator of the boat, or the driver of a car, or the owner of a home, you have substantial liability and you cannot assume that everyone you encounter or interact with will have common sense or posses the knowledge that you do about what is going on. You also cannot assume that if any guests or visitors get hurt, as a result of an opportunity that you presented to them, that a lawsuit will not result.

As the operator of a vessel you are even responsible for your wake and if someone going over your wake gets hurt guess what? You could be liable.

Is it fair? It depends on the circumstances but a liability umbrella could help you sleep a lot better!

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

I think you assume, and maybe many of us do, that someone who has not spent a lot, or even a little, time on a boat has a basic knowledge of what is going on. We need to remember that even the concept of putting the engine in reverse to stop the boat is foreign to many guests.

As the operator of the boat, or the driver of a car, or the owner of a home, you have substantial liability and you cannot assume that everyone you encounter or interact with will have common sense or posses the knowledge that you do about what is going on. You also cannot assume that if any guests or visitors get hurt, as a result of an opportunity that you presented to them, that a lawsuit will not result.

As the operator of a vessel you are even responsible for your wake and if someone going over your wake gets hurt guess what? You could be liable.

Is it fair? It depends on the circumstances but a liability umbrella could help you sleep a lot better!

I agree completely, however according the article that supposedly was derived as reported from the actual filing - the injured gentleman jumped willingly head first into clear and shallow water. No amount of boating knowledge is necessary to come to the conclusion that this was ill advised regardless of the reason why he was jumping off. It also does not indicate that the man was pushed or thrown overboard due to anything the operator of the boat did.

He said Shaffer told him to jump into the water as Shaffer slowed the boat. When the boat slowed, Brown claims that Shaffer allowed him to dive off the front of the boat, where he struck the sandbar.



Therefore I happen to be of the opinion that as tragic as this accident was, it was self inflicted so is there not culpability there on the part of the injured man? No different than stepping out into oncoming traffic on a busy street or jumping off a bridge just because somebody said - yeah you're good go for it. Now - if there are unpublished extenuating circumstances that could very well convince me otherwise but at face value based on the facts in evidence I see no fault on the driver other than suggesting anyone jump into shallow water from a moving vessel is equally as stupid as actually doing it.

[NoBozo]

Back in the day..the 60's...In the NAVY..Aboard ship: We had what was generally known as "Sea Lawyers". These were enlisted personnel who were well versed in advising other enlisted personnel in Legal Matters.

They had no education or other background in Legal Matters but they were always available for consultation when someone needed Legal Advice. There was No Fee. NB

[Woody38]

Perhaps:
1. Everyone should take a coast guard course.
2. Assuming all here has a NH boating certificate, take a look at the part where it was explained that the skipper of the boat has a duty to inform all passengers about rules of safety and what is expected of them as passengers.
3. I have no insight into whatever happened in this instance and will give no inferences. Speculation only leads to misguided conclusions.

[fatlazyless]

Ayuh ...... the Navy has sea lawyers, the Army has barracks lawyers, prisons have jailhouse lawyers, landlords have tenant lawyers, and forums like this one have what may be termed 'web lawyers.'

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Ayuh ...... the Navy has sea lawyers, the Army has barracks lawyers, prisons have jailhouse lawyers, landlords have tenant lawyers, and forums like this one have what may be termed 'web lawyers.'

ALL True: However, in all those cases there was Face to Face contact. The person needing legal advice Knew the advisor..they were on the same ship together. If the advice was flawed, the person who got the advice knew where to go if things didn't work out. If crew members had a dispute...they just couldn't...."Up and Leave".

Internet Legal Advisers however are "anonymous". I can't come kick your ass if you give me bad advice. Sad but True.

[Acrossamerica]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Just as a side note - I understand the concept of pleading ignorance, but really there is ignorant and then there is retarded.

I believe that pleading ignorance is only allowed in the case of the Clinton's However, being totally ignorant in the eyes of the law does have an advantage. It allows one to be strongly considered for President of the United States.

[thinkxingu]

"Brown said Shaffer was negligent and unlawfully allowed him to dive off a moving boat." How do you do that?! This is so messed up.

That being said, some years back a friend of mine crashed his car up with his brother as a passenger. His brother needed lots of medical care, so he was OK with his brother suing to get the insurance money.

Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk

[noreast]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

"Brown said Shaffer was negligent and unlawfully allowed him to dive off a moving boat." How do you do that?! This is so messed up.

That being said, some years back a friend of mine crashed his car up with his brother as a passenger. His brother needed lots of medical care, so he was OK with his brother suing to get the insurance money.

Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk

Right, Many times both party's realize suing the insurance is the only way to get the medical payed. Obviously I don't know anything about this case specifically. The whole thing sucks though.

[SAMIAM]

The sand bar at Winnisquam bridge is one of the least challenging places to anchor. There are no hazards and it's surrounded by deeper water.
Even a novice operator should be able to set an anchor without help.
Perhaps Capt Morgan was on board.

[Winnisquamer]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

The sand bar at Winnisquam bridge is one of the least challenging places to anchor. There are no hazards and it's surrounded by deeper water.
Even a novice operator should be able to set an anchor without help.
Perhaps Capt Morgan was on board.

Agreed. The only thing that could be difficult is dealing with anchoring between boats because its a small sandbar. It is actually impressive how quickly the drop off is at that sandbar is. Goes from 2 feet to 20 like that!

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

That being said, some years back a friend of mine crashed his car up with his brother as a passenger. His brother needed lots of medical care, so he was OK with his brother suing to get the insurance money.
Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk

I had not thought of that but it reminded me of a family issue. My sister severely broke her ankle at my other sisters house. It was agreed that she sue the homeowner(my sister). The insurance company settled.

[Bear Islander]

Imagine you are a passenger on the Mount Washington. The skipper tells you to jump in the water. You jump in, and end up paralyzed. I think we would all agree the skipper and the operators of the Mount are responsible. Or at the very least partially responsible.

Yet when it is a small boat skippered by an average Joe some people think only the passenger is responsible.

I understand the the Mount is a commercial vessel and the skipper has a commercial license. Yet the responsibility of the skipper to keep his passengers safe is the same.

When I take the controls of a small plane, I am responsible for the safety of the passengers. Same for cars, same for boats.

[tis]

But I think we need to bear some responsibility for ourselves.

[Newbiesaukee]

The idea that it does not matter as long as "insurance" pays for it is an unsettling one.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by tis

But I think we need to bear some responsibility for ourselves.

I agree, we do.

The passenger bears responsibility for his actions. And the skipper bears responsibility for what he told the passenger. And for failing to keep his passenger safe.

[Mr. V]

It is reported that the skipper said to "jump" in the water, not "dive" in the water.

There's a difference, at least in my mind: jump typically means enter feet first, but dive means hands/head first.

[tis]

And now that the bears are all taken care of, BEAR ISLANDER----

[Onshore]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Imagine you are a passenger on the Mount Washington. The skipper tells you to jump in the water. You jump in, and end up paralyzed. I think we would all agree the skipper and the operators of the Mount are responsible. Or at the very least partially responsible.

Respectfully, no, I would not agree. I would still take the position that if you choose to jump, you accept responsibility for the outcome.

[robmac]

Sorry but as Forest Gump says stupid is what stupid does. I am very sorry for the injury but common sense has to come into play. as stated water is shallow you can see the bottom to only take an anchor and dive head first???? Take some responibility

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by shore things

Respectfully, no, I would not agree. I would still take the position that if you choose to jump, you accept responsibility for the outcome.

We can agree that if you jump you should accept the responsibility for your actions. But that does not absolve the skipper from his responsibility.

Everyone should accept the responsibility for there actions. That includes the passenger, and that includes the skipper.

Responsibility is not like peanut butter. It doesn't get any thinner the more you spread it around.

[NoBozo]

This was the biggest Tall Ships Event ever. NOTHING since then has compared...in Newport or anywhere else.

I invited a friend of mine and his two young daughters out on my boat to view the festivities. We went out beyond the harbor entrance to see the Tall Ships sail in. (We adults were having "Bloody Marys")...it was before noon.

Later on, we were rafted up with a friend in Newport Harbor. Another friend was about to raft up alongside us on the other side. I instructed my friend to go up on the bow and take the bow line from the new boat rafting up.. The new boat tossed his line over and it dropped in the water. My friend dived into the water and grabbed the dock line and ..tried to Hand the dock line UP to the other boat.

No one was injured. We eventually got tied up...

Just Remembering the good old days. NB

[wifi]

Asked to jump, told to dive ? The oldest saying in the book: If someone asked/told you to jump off the Brooklyn bridge, would you ?

Another candidate for the Darwin awards.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I had not thought of that but it reminded me of a family issue. My sister severely broke her ankle at my other sisters house. It was agreed that she sue the homeowner(my sister). The insurance company settled.

I'd be ashamed if this happened in my family. Thinking like this is what is eroding the soul of our once great country.

[trfour]

An unfortunate happening. Common sense says whenever diving into fresh and or salt water, to physically check the area for both depth, and or obstacle's under the waters surface, 'prier to'...

I nevah had to jump...

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by trfour

An unfortunate happening. Common sense says whenever diving into fresh and or salt water, to physically check the area for both depth, and or obstacle's under the waters surface, 'prier to'...

I nevah had to jump...

I have seen a similar pontoon boat, with a slide attached, at the sand bar in Winnisquam all summer long. I have always wondered about the liability issues involved when everyone from the sand bar asks to slide down it..... and someone got hurt.

NO THANKS!

[ushaggerb]

I think the lake is at fault here. What business does a lake have being shallow?

[noreast]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

I'd be ashamed if this happened in my family. Thinking like this is what is eroding the soul of our once great country.

As are the actions of the Insurance company's after katrina, or not Paying death benefits on confirmed deaths. Which came 1st chicken or the egg? Now 2 wrongs don't make a right, but it's easier to explain away when people feel (sometimes correctly) that the Insurance company becomes an enemy, which, due to there own actions, They are largely thought to be.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I had not thought of that but it reminded me of a family issue. My sister severely broke her ankle at my other sisters house. It was agreed that she sue the homeowner(my sister). The insurance company settled.

I first learned of this "action" from my college roommate, who went on to become a real estate lawyer.

He subsequently spent 2 years in jail for hiring translaters and scouting "strawman buyers" for toxic loans. (The only one of 20 defendants in his county who didn't "plea-bargain" with the Feds in 2005). While in jail, his designated replacement boss in his firm put him on a consultant's salary of $200,000 annually.

We discussed the possibility of his injury at my folk's empty house—to which, he said, "That's nothing, I just sue their homeowner's insurance company."


.

[tis]

UH huh. But what people don't seem to realize is that the money ultimately comes from consumers (us) who buy insurance. It's not like the insurance companies have their own "stash". Where have we heard that before?

[CrownRay]

If you need to have someone jump in the water to set the anchor...you're doing it wrong! you need more skipper training...just saying.

If you are outfitted right, with a nice length of heavy chain on the anchor, its going to lay down and grab nicely.

Don't give me any bull about "not allot of room" around other boats...try it on the Charles on the Fourth of July!

Oh, and did I mention....you don't have to go in the water to set the anchor!

That skipper was wrong...

[rsmlp]

Originally Posted by CrownRay

If you need to have someone jump in the water to set the anchor...you're doing it wrong! you need more skipper training...just saying.

If you are outfitted right, with a nice length of heavy chain on the anchor, its going to lay down and grab nicely.

Don't give me any bull about "not allot of room" around other boats...try it on the Charles on the Fourth of July!

Oh, and did I mention....you don't have to go in the water to set the anchor!

That skipper was wrong...

Complete agreement.

[Meredith_Resident]

I'm surprised there's really grounds for a lawsuit, but with how many people sue for crazy things these days, it's best to just be prepared with the proper insurance for whatever you're operating to prevent going broke because someone hurt themselves and decided to sue. An adult person in sound mind would know there are inherent risks jumping off of a moving boat to set an anchor (not a lawyer; JMHO) It's a sad world we live in these days...

[TheProfessor]

Originally Posted by Doobs41378

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx...or-broken-neck

Was alcohol involved?