Boat capsizes on Lake Winnisquam following crash

[dave603]

I was out there earlier, and got off when it started getting crazy.

http://www.wmur.com/news/boat-capsiz...crash/41078240

[Outdoorsman]

Officials said four people were rescued out of the water and were towed back to shore. Another person was taken to the hospital.

WTF would officials tow the rescued people back to shore? Put them on the damn boat, don't tow them

Victims were found near Meredith and Laconia, authorities said.

WHOA, how fast was this collision if victims were found in Meredith and Laconia? And how can the injuries not be severe if a victim was hit on Winnisquam and landed in Meredith?

WMUR..... C'MON... Report the news so we actually have a clue, or report nothing at all.

[Just Sold]

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

WTF would officials tow the rescued people back to shore? Put them on the damn boat, don't tow them



WHOA, how fast was this collision if victims were found in Meredith and Laconia? And how can the injuries not be severe if a victim was hit on Winnisquam and landed in Meredith?

WMUR..... C'MON... Report the news so we actually have a clue, or report nothing at all.

Winnisquam is in both Meredith and Laconia. The northern end is in Meredith.

[dave603]

Originally Posted by Just Sold

Winnisquam is in both Meredith and Laconia. The northern end is in Meredith.

People seem to forget that.

[Winnisquamer]

Originally Posted by dave603

People seem to forget that.

Sanbornton, Belmont and Tilton also.

Although most of us were out at that age doing the same if not worse. With how overpopulated the world is getting it might be time to up the age for the license/boating requirements. You're still a child at 15. As someone who's been on Winnisquam for years now I see no reason this should have happened. Glad it wasn't worse

[chasedawg]

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

WTF would officials tow the rescued people back to shore? Put them on the damn boat, don't tow them



WHOA, how fast was this collision if victims were found in Meredith and Laconia? And how can the injuries not be severe if a victim was hit on Winnisquam and landed in Meredith?

WMUR..... C'MON... Report the news so we actually have a clue, or report nothing at all.

Outdoorsmen again comes up with a clueless response. Why the need to do a WTF..... come on that is not necessary.

[dave603]

No one hurt at least, be careful out there.

http://www.unionleader.com/Two-boats...ake-Winnisquam

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by dave603

No one hurt at least, be careful out there.

http://www.unionleader.com/Two-boats...ake-Winnisquam

There were injuries, Dave. A 7 yr old in the Moomba suffered facial injuries and the 69 yr old owner suffered "serious" injuries. I hope all recover just fine. Boats can be repaired or replaced; just thankful no fatalities.

I live here... I am always Upthesaukee.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

There were injuries, Dave. A 7 yr old in the Moomba suffered facial injuries and the 69 yr old owner suffered "serious" injuries. I hope all recover just fine. Boats can be repaired or replaced; just thankful no fatalities.

I live here... I am always Upthesaukee.

Any idea what caused the collision? I've seen some horrible driving on the lake, but I've always been proactive/patient enough to steer clear from them.

Just read the 'updated' article and saw that the struck vessel was just floating and was hit by 15-year-old driving the other boat.
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[salty dog]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

There were injuries, Dave. A 7 yr old in the Moomba suffered facial injuries and the 69 yr old owner suffered "serious" injuries. I hope all recover just fine. Boats can be repaired or replaced; just thankful no fatalities.

I live here... I am always Upthesaukee.

Hopefully, the young boy and older gentleman's injuries will heal. I know at 65, I don't heal like I used to. The Moomba, I feel, may have seen it's last days.

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by chasedawg

Outdoorsmen again comes up with a clueless response. Why the need to do a WTF..... come on that is not necessary.

Please spend more time trolling the lake and less time trolling me.

Thanks

[NoBozo]

It's quite simple: Outdoorsman is a Troll. Looking for attention. All his posts show that. NB

[SAMIAM]

Pretty hard to even find another boat on Winnisquam at 10:30 at night.....can't imagine what caused the accident.
Sounds like a grampy teaching grandson how to navigate at night.

[Woodsy]

A 15 year old was piloting the 4Winns boat... So no Safe Boater Certificate.

Failure to maintain a proper lookout and too fast for the conditions.

Glad no one was killed... and I hope the lesson was learned!

Woodsy

[Dave R]

This accident makes me wonder if the all-around white light was visible on the boat that was adrift?

When I boat at night, I keep a handheld spot light at the helm and ready to go just in case I need to signal someone that does not see me. Can't help but think something like that would have prevented this accident.

[8gv]

Originally Posted by Dave R

This accident makes me wonder if the all-around white light was visible on the boat that was adrift?

When I boat at night, I keep a handheld spot light at the helm and ready to go just in case I need to signal someone that does not see me. Can't help but think something like that would have prevented this accident.

I am wondering about the all-around light as well.

A boat is underway needs it. A boat at anchor needs it. A boat adrift?
Common sense tells me yes, of course. Does the law state that?

Also, does a safe boater certificate held by someone in the boat supervising a non certificate holder meet the requirements of the law?

[dave603]

Makes sense to at least have the anchor light on, but if the engines running I would guess that all nav lights be on. If your stopped with no engine, the anchor light.

As for the safety cert question, anyone under age is to be supervised by a holder at all times.

[Woodsy]

No doubt it will be he said/she said when it comes to the nav lights being on. Obv its in the best interests of the 4 Winns to claim the lights were off.

Woodsy

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

No doubt it will be he said/she said when it comes to the nav lights being on. Obv its in the best interests of the 4 Winns to claim the lights were off.

Woodsy

Odds are good the light switch position will be unchanged since the impact. I can't imagine someone aboard that boat thinking: "oh, I should turn that switch on" right after the accident, so the switch position should offer an instant clue. If the all-around white light bulb was broken in the impact, forensic experts can determine if it was on or off at the time.

[Barney Bear]

Often, it is difficult to determine if a single white light ahead is on a boat or on the shore.

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by Barney Bear

Often, it is difficult to determine if a single white light ahead is on a boat or on the shore.

Coming back from Wolfeboro fireworks to Alton Bay, with no moon, my wife commented on the very same subject : it's getting more and more difficult to pick up some white lights, especially those that may not be the brightest, against the growing number of brighter white lights along the shoreline. And this is not just a mainland problem, also see it on islands.

I live here... I am always Upthesaukee.

[noreast]

Originally Posted by Barney Bear

Often, it is difficult to determine if a single white light ahead is on a boat or on the shore.

I agree, but the closer you get should prevent you from ramming it.

[dave603]

Looks like it got hit on the side, towards the rear. The Nav lights and the all around should have been visible if they are on.

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by Dave R

Odds are good the light switch position will be unchanged since the impact. I can't imagine someone aboard that boat thinking: "oh, I should turn that switch on" right after the accident, so the switch position should offer an instant clue. If the all-around white light bulb was broken in the impact, forensic experts can determine if it was on or off at the time.

As long as someone didn't fall or somehow hit the switch when the collision occurred....

My guess is the light was on... and the 4 Winns didn't see it.

Woodsy

[DBreskin]

Originally Posted by 8gv

I am wondering about the all-around light as well.



A boat is underway needs it. A boat at anchor needs it. A boat adrift?

Common sense tells me yes, of course. Does the law state that?

From a legal perspective, a boat adrift (with people aboard) is considered to be a boat underway.

[Winnisquamer]

I have always hated the rule of a child can drive the boat with a licenced/certified operator but another adult cant.

[Merrymeeting]

Originally Posted by Winnisquamer

I have always hated the rule of a child can drive the boat with a licenced/certified operator but another adult cant.

I believe that my children (now all in their 20's) are much better, and aware, boat drivers due to this rule. All of them had the opportunity to drive our boat throughout their early teen years. But always with me standing right beside them, ready to grab the steering wheel or throttle if necessary. In that position, I could also point out approaching boats, buoys, etc and teach them the "rules of the road". As a result, by the time they received their boating certificates, they knew the rules, the etiquettes, and the best practices while driving a boat.

As always, the issue isn't necessarily a bad rule but bad implementation by the few.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by Merrymeeting

I believe that my children (now all in their 20's) are much better, and aware, boat drivers due to this rule. All of them had the opportunity to drive our boat throughout their early teen years. But always with me standing right beside them, ready to grab the steering wheel or throttle if necessary. In that position, I could also point out approaching boats, buoys, etc and teach them the "rules of the road". As a result, by the time they received their boating certificates, they knew the rules, the etiquettes, and the best practices while driving a boat.

As always, the issue isn't necessarily a bad rule but bad implementation by the few.

I would guess that Winnisquamer wasn't so much against underage supervised being allowed but of age legal not being able to be supervised.

[Slickcraft]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I would guess that Winnisquamer wasn't so much against underage supervised being allowed but of age legal not being able to be supervised.

Yes I can stand along side my 14 year old granddaughter while she learns to drive but I can't do that for her age 17 sister.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by Merrymeeting

I believe that my children (now all in their 20's) are much better, and aware, boat drivers due to this rule. All of them had the opportunity to drive our boat throughout their early teen years. But always with me standing right beside them, ready to grab the steering wheel or throttle if necessary. In that position, I could also point out approaching boats, buoys, etc and teach them the "rules of the road". As a result, by the time they received their boating certificates, they knew the rules, the etiquettes, and the best practices while driving a boat.

As always, the issue isn't necessarily a bad rule but bad implementation by the few.

TOTALLY AGREE !!

Best way to learn and learn correctly -- not just "book rules" which is the fatal flaw of the Boating Certificate Program Nationally-- there's no real life, behind the wheel, experience!

I have had my granddaughter driving our 24' & 26' Bowriders since age 8-9 .... started with the classic "lap driving" simply steering, progressed age 11 to controlling the throttle and Grampa standing directly behind to over ride when necessary (and it was necessary) to her being 13 now and I can comfortably (relatively) sit in the forward passenger seat watch and verbally correct mistaken headings or decisions -- yet always ready to JUMP to the controls if necessary.

At this point, I am proud to say she has a tremendous grasp of the markers - utilizing the compass as her primary tool, yet also completely comfortable confirming against the GPS ..............Boat spacing, passing others with enough steerage, and maneuvering in relatively high traffic areas (which always keeps me on my toes - but I want to have her experience it and learn).......... it is amazing how kids want to learn & learn correctly !

Now if she could just dock the boat within the first 20 tries, we'd be golden ---- guess what the balance of the Season will be focused on!! Beware if you see a bowrider making 32 attempts to dock midweek at Weirs or Center Harbor Town docks


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.

[Winnisquamer]

Originally Posted by Phantom

TOTALLY AGREE !!

Best way to learn and learn correctly -- not just "book rules" which is the fatal flaw of the Boating Certificate Program Nationally-- there's no real life, behind the wheel, experience!

I have had my granddaughter driving our 24' & 26' Bowriders since age 8-9 .... started with the classic "lap driving" simply steering, progressed age 11 to controlling the throttle and Grampa standing directly behind to over ride when necessary (and it was necessary) to her being 13 now and I can comfortably (relatively) sit in the forward passenger seat watch and verbally correct mistaken headings or decisions -- yet always ready to JUMP to the controls if necessary.

At this point, I am proud to say she has a tremendous grasp of the markers - utilizing the compass as her primary tool, yet also completely comfortable confirming against the GPS ..............Boat spacing, passing others with enough steerage, and maneuvering in relatively high traffic areas (which always keeps me on my toes - but I want to have her experience it and learn).......... it is amazing how kids want to learn & learn correctly !

Now if she could just dock the boat within the first 20 tries, we'd be golden ---- guess what the balance of the Season will be focused on!! Beware if you see a bowrider making 32 attempts to dock midweek at Weirs or Center Harbor Town docks


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.

I don't really have an issue with any of it. Just have always thought it was odd.

Yes most of us who grew up on the water all learned that way. Half of you probably learned how to drive a car that way too or even sitting on someones lap. Doesn't change the fact that I think they are one in the same, whether I teach a child first or an adult first its the same in my eyes as far as responsibility on the vessel.

I also understand its a push for you to get your safety certificate like someone mentioned, like everything run by the government its a scam for your money.

But hypothetically what if your friend is curious about getting into boating and doesn't know if they really want to commit. The state forces them to bend over backwards to become a safe boater to end up not liking it, when a child can try it out and that's that. Cant even demo a boat with out it. If you're unlicensed and drive my boat and crash as a child I should and would be held liable, if your an adult and its my boat I should still be liable as you were under my supervision. (I get that's where it gets tricky)

And for the record, as much as we say it works and we can make our kids better and safer boaters, a 15 year old non safety boater certified person almost killed a couple people on a lake that maybe has 3 boats max out on it at night. I literally see the same 2 boats out at night and never anyone else

Either way because like I have said multiple times on this forum the whole process of the class, the proctored exam, and being a "safe boater certified" is all a joke and was one of the easiest things to do, provided you have the time, and sadly the hoops we jumped through to obtain a "card" wont make any of us 100% safe on the water.

I just feel supervision is supervision. A lot of people I talk too think there should be an on the water boaters exam. How would y'all feel about that? Parallel dock an inboard, loading and unloading, trailer backing up test!

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by Winnisquamer

If you're unlicensed and drive my boat and crash as a child I should and would be held liable, if your an adult and its my boat I should still be liable as you were under my supervision. (I get that's where it gets tricky)

:

No argument from me on anything stated EXCEPT .... it is my understanding that the License holder is responsible regardless of age -- if my 52 year old son-in-law is driving under my "Cert" (by virtue of me being aboard and letting him) -- it is clearly & unambiguously MY liability/ Responsibility -- no different from my 13 year old grand daughter ..... I have never understood there to be a "gray" area when it come to that

Perhaps I am wrong


.

[Winnisquamer]

Originally Posted by Phantom

No argument from me on anything stated EXCEPT .... it is my understanding that the License holder is responsible regardless of age -- if my 52 year old son-in-law is driving under my "Cert" (by virtue of me being aboard and letting him) -- it is clearly & unambiguously MY liability/ Responsibility -- no different from my 13 year old grand daughter ..... I have never understood there to be a "gray" area when it come to that

Perhaps I am wrong


.

I agree and think that's how it should be. If I let you drive under my "Cert" adult or child that's fine, if you crash that's on me either way.

But I did some searching last night and read 4-5 posts on this forum arguing that question from years ago. The consensus was because its a child you technically are legally responsible for them, were as if an adult drove your boat and crashed you are not legally responsible for them as they are an adult in the eyes of the law I guess.

My only point was child or adult driving a boat supervised is the same in my opinion. Neither are trained so they should be treated as equals. So I don't think there should be a difference in liability/ responsibility or the law.

Phantom I wasn't calling you out by anymeans. I just couldn't quote like 3 different posts at once so yours was the winner as I read it first.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Winnisquamer

I have always hated the rule of a child can drive the boat with a licenced/certified operator but another adult cant.

Yes and the reason for that is to force people who are 16 and up to take the Boater Safety Course. If it wasn't this way, what is to stop someone from never taking the course and simply continue to drive with someone else on board who has a certificate?

Dan

[webmaster]

Originally Posted by Winnisquamer

I have always hated the rule of a child can drive the boat with a licenced/certified operator but another adult cant.

Sorry to jump in but if this is true how would an adult without a BEC practice legally for the proctored exam?

[dave603]

Originally Posted by webmaster

Sorry to jump in but if this is true how would an adult without a BEC practice legally for the proctored exam?

The proctored exam is just a paper test. No real boat involved at all for the test or the class. It's not like an automobile license were you have to use a car to practice and to test on.

[persistence]

Originally Posted by 8gv

I am wondering about the all-around light as well.

A boat is underway needs it. A boat at anchor needs it. A boat adrift?
Common sense tells me yes, of course. Does the law state that?

A boat adrift is not anchored or secured to a dock, so it is underway. You should have the same lighting. Not sure why you would turn it off at all unless in a safe anchorage.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by persistence

A boat adrift is not anchored or secured to a dock, so it is underway. You should have the same lighting. Not sure why you would turn it off at all unless in a safe anchorage.

You have to display the all-around white light at anchor too.

[SAMIAM]

It's so easy to get caught up in the moment when you're having fun on the lake. The sound of the water and kids laughing, wind and sun in your face makes for a relaxing and almost dreamy setting. But tragedy can strike in an instant. I often think about some of the accidents that have happened on the lakes and it makes me even more vigilant.

[persistence]

Originally Posted by Dave R

You have to display the all-around white light at anchor too.

yes, the top white all around is the anchor light. if you are at anchor, you are not underway. while underway, the white all around white light is actually serving as forward masthead AND the sternlight. on larger boats, these lights will be separated for visibility and dont count as an anchor light, the masthead (225 degrees) mounted high and typically midship and the sternlight (135 degrees) typically mounted on the transom of inboard boats. the arcs of these two add up to a 360 all around. and then you will have your red and green 'sidelights' 112.5 degrees each matching the 225). The idea is from any angle, the boat should be lit. ex. if you cant see the red / green, you are overtaking. over 50 meters, you have 2 mastheads, the forward one lower than the aft, the two are line and also form a range to help determine the heading that vessel. you would also have 2 anchor lights, the fwd one being mounted higher than the aft.

I am a little confused on the licensing though. I do have USCG 100 ton near coastal. I am covered on the lake, correct? And, I was recently told to get a license to say, drive the Mount, one would need an over 40' license. which basically consists of bringing a 40'vessel to a testing place (marine patrol?) and showing you can dock it. Then, one would be licensed for the Mount. Is this true?

sorry a bit overkill, but its good to refresh

thanks

[Descant]

Originally Posted by persistence

I am a little confused on the licensing though. I do have USCG 100 ton near coastal. I am covered on the lake, correct? And, I was recently told to get a license to say, drive the Mount, one would need an over 40' license. which basically consists of bringing a 40'vessel to a testing place (marine patrol?) and showing you can dock it. Then, one would be licensed for the Mount. Is this true?
thanks

When I got my commercial license (It actually says "Captain, Master, Pilot, Engineer") many years ago, MP came to our home port to do the water test. That included an oral review as well as the written exam. In those days, the license was for a certain size boat and horsepower. I think my first one said 30' and 400 hp. Later, I had another job offer and I upgraded (new water test) to 40 feet and 700 hp. I'd expect if you were going to work for the Mount it might say "unlimited" but still restrict you to inland waters, and leave oceaN to the USCG.

[persistence]

Yea, I took exam with USCG and they have inland, near coastal, ocean and then different tonnages. oceans unlimted being the big boy. sounds like the lake doesnt use CG req's?

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by 8gv

I am wondering about the all-around light as well.

A boat is underway needs it. A boat at anchor needs it. A boat adrift?
Common sense tells me yes, of course. Does the law state that?

Also, does a safe boater certificate held by someone in the boat supervising a non certificate holder meet the requirements of the law?

A boat adrift needs all around and navigation (bow lights) lit.

[VitaBene]

Keep in mind that even if your 16 YO is driving your boat with a valid certificate, but you are giving orders (while perhaps imbibing ) from the back, you are still technically in control of your vessel and can be held responsible for an issue (or get an OUI)!

[dave603]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Keep in mind that even if your 16 YO is driving your boat with a valid certificate, but you are giving orders (while perhaps imbibing ) from the back, you are still technically in control of your vessel and can be held responsible for an issue (or get an OUI)!

Interesting question there?
Your saying somewhat that the boat owner is responsible for what ever happens.
So if you are "impaired" and have some one else take control that has a cert. you still responsible?
I think that would get dropped in court pretty fast.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by dave603

Interesting question there?
Your saying somewhat that the boat owner is responsible for what ever happens.
So if you are "impaired" and have some one else take control that has a cert. you still responsible?
I think that would get dropped in court pretty fast.

As the owner of the boat you are the Captain... while other can drive your boat, when you are on board you are in charge. And in some cases even when you are not on board you have liability.... Its really no different then being in your own car....

I don't know the rules have changed, but Back in the 80s I know someone who got fined as the owner of a boat, because, his young adult kids, where tubing with two people on the tube and only one observer in the boat.... In total, there where 5 fines handed out.... One to each of the participants, and one to dear old Dad back on shore......

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by dave603
Interesting question there?
Your saying somewhat that the boat owner is responsible for what ever happens.
So if you are "impaired" and have some one else take control that has a cert. you still responsible?
I think that would get dropped in court pretty fast.

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

As the owner of the boat you are the Captain... while other can drive your boat, when you are on board you are in charge. And in some cases even when you are not on board you have liability.... Its really no different then being in your own car...

This is interesting to me as I sometimes assume the "designated driver" responsibilities while driving a friends boat on a different lake. I would have thought that the same laws would apply as with a vehicle. Since I also drive his truck with boat in tow from the lake, HE would not be arrested for DUI because he was the passenger in the vehicle.

A passage from "The Official Boating Handbook of the New Hampshire Marine Patrol - Web Version"

New Hampshire law prohibits anyone from boating while intoxicated (BWI)—that is, operating any vessel (including vessels propelled by a motor or sail, canoes, and kayaks) while under the influence of alcohol, controlled drugs, or any combination of alcohol and controlled drugs.

https://www.boat-ed.com/newhampshire...hol-and-Drugs/

Another from "NH Tour Guide.com"

Having alcohol in a boat in New Hampshire is legal and also a privilege (not many of those left these days), so help keep it legal by protecting those in your boat. Every injury, accident, arrest and death will contribute to the laws changing. Let your passengers drink and if you would like to drink, be sure you have a licensed boater become the designated driver!

http://www.nhtourguide.com/nh_boatin...ol_on_boat.htm

[8gv]

So, for the purpose of clarity...

If my friend does not have a safe boating certificate and is an adult, he may not legally operate my boat, even if I am standing next to him supervising, we are both sober and I hold a SBC?

[dave603]

Originally Posted by 8gv

So, for the purpose of clarity...

If my friend does not have a safe boating certificate and is an adult, he may not legally operate my boat, even if I am standing next to him supervising, we are both sober and I hold a SBC?

That's correct.

Seems strange that you don't even need one in Mass., if your an adult, but up here you do.

[thinkxingu]

My 6-year-old knows more about the rules (and can drive better) than many of the people we see on Winni.

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