Township of Governor's Island, N.H.?

[Just Sold]

Barbara Aichinger, is seeking to persuade her neighbors on Governor's Island to secede from the town and establish a separate municipality.

http://www2.laconiadailysun.com/stor...vernors-island

[jkjoshuatree]

More power to her!!

She certainly has a lot of moxie!!

[AC2717]

Good for her, I hope it works so others can follow their lead

[Seaplane Pilot]

I sincerely hope they're able to pull this off. I can't wait to hear the giant sucking sound when all that tax revenue is being taken away from those arrogant, pompous selectmen in Gilford.

[AC2717]

It makes you wonder
Sometimes I sit here, paying my taxes to Laconia at a rate of $19.81 for 2010
up $4.30 from when I first bought and realize that I receive no services from the town at all.
We have our own dumpster because we are not allowed city trash, we are not allowed mail boxes, cannot use the schools, cannot get a resident pass for the dump (at least in 2006 I was not able to) cannot register my car or truck in NH, we have city water and city sewer but we pay the separate bill for that so none of the property taxes going to that. I cannot use the schools. About the only thing I can use the library

So the city and state take my over $2000 a year taxes and I am not allowed to use anything for it. THey also take my boat registration and jetski registration and trailer for jetski registration but at least I am able to use my boat on NH lakes for that much, but I can do that with out of state registration

Oh yeah, that's right, I cannot vote on what they do with my money either


So makes you wonder over 230 years ago the same idea was muttered

TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION!!!!!

Any one have the muster and money to set up a class action lawsuit on this, and honestly I am not joking but I do not have the where withall to pick up the flag and run with it. I am glad she does

[RailroadJoe]

As Thomas Paine once said "The Government that governs least governs best"

[Jonas Pilot]

I just don't know how you put up with the B.S. this state forces you to deal with. There has got to be other states that don't treat you like this.

[Heaven]

"When did our personal success become an open checkbook for big government?" asked Barbara Aichinger

Her arrogance is appalling. I'm sure her personal success had many footsteps along a path built and paid for by others.

[jrc]

Heaven, what does the route she traveled to her success have to do with anything?

Personally I think her plan will fail, just because of the inherent cost and complexity of the process.

Does she forfeit civil rights because someone helped her at some point in her life?

[bilproject]

Maybe all the Islands should get together and form their own county with no local towns. Combining all those taxes for the various Islands (we are all over taxed for what we get) we could all see at least a 50% reduction with an increase in services. How about it Bear Island, Rattlesnake, Cow, Long Island and all the smaller Islands, You In? If we could then all these towns would finally understand they are killing the golden goose.

[MDoug]

Originally Posted by bilproject

Maybe all the Islands should get together and form their own county with no local towns. Combining all those taxes for the various Islands (we are all over taxed for what we get) we could all see at least a 50% reduction with an increase in services. How about it Bear Island, Rattlesnake, Cow, Long Island and all the smaller Islands, You In? If we could then all these towns would finally understand they are killing the golden goose.

Count me in on Bear Island!

[Ms Merge]

Originally Posted by MDoug

Count me in on Bear Island!

Folks, this is not that far fetched. What I would recommend is that you approach your legislators. You can form an unincorporated area. This is actually the definition of a township. My idea for Governor's Island was to form an incorporated place which is a town.

Since the non bridged islands are largely seasonal this would fit perfectly with an unicorporated place. What it would take would be a bill sponsored by your state legislature. I actually think given the current political environment it would pass. You would not be responsible for the town and local school portion of the tax bill but would still pay the county and the state school fund. You would then negotiate with the county (always looking for funds) for the services you collectively would desire. Your taxes would be very low and you would be happy.

Regards,
Ms Merge

[IslandRadio]

I can see it now - the township of Rattlesnake Island

[JMR]

I am told that years ago thee was a discussion of a number of the islands coming together to form a town. As you might guess, the issue is (always?) too high taxation for the little benefit that islands actually get from towns. The offset is the costs of police, fire and some admiistration in the new town. And I suspect, the attitude of the town that you are trying to leave. Since, most towns do not want to lose taxable real estate.

The NH legislature has the power to create towns and change the boundaries of towns. It comes from the concept that towns and counties are the creation of the state legislature. Thus the state can change them at any time.

For example, Sugar Hill was once a portion of another town (Littleton?), but the legislature carved it out to stand on its own. It was challenged and the NH Supreme Court upheld the creation of sugar Hill by the legislature. As you might guess, it was years of litigation between the two before and after the legislature acted.

I have heard, but not checked, that Governors Island left laconia for Guilford back in the day.

A cynical view would be that money speaks when it comes to these decisions to change towns, etc.

For what it is worth..........

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by JMR

IFor example, Sugar Hill was once a portion of another town (Littleton?), but the legislature carved it out to stand on its own. It was challenged and the NH Supreme Court upheld the creation of sugar Hill by the legislature.

Actually, Sugar Hill was part of Lisbon in 1962. Second youngest town in Nh behind Harts Location 2001.

[Heaven]

Her "personal success" was no doubt in part due to the services she used throughout her entire life that were paid for by TAXES upon others, at least partially based on the VALUE of their "personal success". This is the worst form of "I got mine, now I don't want to share", or maybe "I got mine and now I'm gonna take my island and go home"

[Happy Gourmand]

I thnk I'll run for Mayor? Governor? President? King?
I'll do it for one lousy million a year, a waterfront home with a dock, and at least a 30' boat.
Then, when I "got mine" I ain't gonna share it with you!!

[jrc]

Originally Posted by Heaven

Her "personal success" was no doubt in part due to the services she used throughout her entire life that were paid for by TAXES upon others, at least partially based on the VALUE of their "personal success". This is the worst form of "I got mine, now I don't want to share", or maybe "I got mine and now I'm gonna take my island and go home"

I guess I don't understand the word "share" with respect to taxes. We pay taxes to fund the government, they use this money to do goverment work: build and staff schools, build roads, pay the police, fire, feed the poor, care for the elderly, where does "share" come in?

All she is saying is that her little island can do this better by themselves than as part of Gilford. Now I don't know this women, she may be dead wrong on the finances, but she has a right to persue this. We should all pay attention to where and how are taxes are spent and always be looking for better ways to provide the government functions.

[RailroadJoe]

jrc Living in a world with blinders on.

[tis]

I want to secede too. I don't think the towns like that though.

[jrc]

Originally Posted by RailroadJoe

jrc Living in a world with blinders on.

Very possible, but just to be clear, I'm talking about local goverment.

I understand that many in the Federal government are very good at "sharing" my money with people who promise to vote for them.

[Argie's Wife]

...if you don't like how things are run - get involved...

You don't have to be a voting-resident to have a say in how a municipality budgets or makes budgeting decisions. NH has one of the best Right to Know laws as any state. Public meetings allow for the public to have a chance to speak. Public hearings are held for the public to address a board or committee, whether it's a governing body or an advisory committee, on the issues that matter to them. Public meetings and hearings both have to be posted in two places in a town - one of those places can be the town's website or the school's website - and generally at the town hall, post office, school district's office, or local library. As for public hearings, they're generally also posted in the local newspaper (but they don't have to be...) It's not hard to see who's meeting when and where - and you can be a part of the process.

[Mink Islander]

Bear Island researched this top some years back. Even hired a retired state supreme court justice to research and advise them as I recall. Conclusion was that it wasn't legally feasible without the cooperation of the town you're seceding from. Not likely.

[Irish mist]

This is a very difficult thing to do. Weirs Beach tried to leave Laconia back in the 90s & could not get it done.

[LadyJane]

Be careful what you wish for

[fatlazyless]

http://www.wves.sau48.org/ with just maybe 30 students spread out through grades K-8, it spends about $28,000/student, and pays the tuition for any Waterville Valley student that decides to go to Plymouth High School.

How many elementary school students, grades K-8, would the proposed Town of Governor's Island be likely to have enrolled?

[Belmont Resident]

If what I was told by a town employee is correct then Governors Island used to be part of Laconia.
They decided they did not want to be part of Laconia because they were being taxed too much. They decided to become part of Gilford.
Once again from what I was told, the taxes from the Island are what keep the taxes for the rest of the Gilford residents as low as they are.

Now I don’t know how many are, year round residents on the Island, but I can’t have a lot of sympathy for 2nd home owners, when so many can’t even afford one home.
And as far as I know we all know ahead of time what we are getting into before we sign on the dotted line.

We just got our tax bill for our 2nd home in Northern Maine and it was a staggering $1100.00. Yes that is eleven hundred. No complaints here, it’s a small price to pay for the solitude we enjoy during all of the summer holidays when the lake is a zoo. Not to mention the thousands of miles of snowmobile riding from our doorstep.

[fatlazyless]

Take a look at a map of Gilford and Laconia, and it's easy to see why Gov Isl would have been originally considered to be part of Laconia judging from the boundary line location between Gilford and Laconia in relation to Gov Isl's location.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

Now I don’t know how many are, year round residents on the Island, but I can’t have a lot of sympathy for 2nd home owners, when so many can’t even afford one home.
And as far as I know we all know ahead of time what we are getting into before we sign on the dotted line.

We just got our tax bill for our 2nd home in Northern Maine and it was a staggering $1100.00. Yes that is eleven hundred. No complaints here, it’s a small price to pay for the solitude we enjoy during all of the summer holidays when the lake is a zoo. Not to mention the thousands of miles of snowmobile riding from our doorstep.

It may be hard to have "sympathy" for people that for example own property on the Gov's Island, at the same time they like everyone else have to weigh the purchase of a piece of property against the total cost of ownership. It's a bit difficult to do that when the town clearly has a target on the prime property and on a whim can tax you right out of it? What's a reasonable figure, taxes double? triple? quadruple? in say 10 years? This is obscene no matter how "well to do" you may or may not be, especially when the perceived "rich" are hit hard as to keep the cost of living low for the rest. This is all out class warfare and it's wrong. I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination - I look at many of the mcmansions and shake my head wondering why anyone needs such a place, but I don't for one minute think they should be screwed because they have more than I do. Careful what you wish for, at some point there will be no more "rich" people to go after.

Nothing you get from the government is free, somebody had to pay for it through taxes. We have far to many expecting everything for nothing, well time to cut them off the gravy train and let them go out and earn a living just like the rest of us.

[tis]

Good post Maxum. But you got me sidetracked. I was going to say if GI is successful, I think I will move there!

[MarkinNH]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

We have far to many expecting everything for nothing, well time to cut them off the gray train and let them go out and earn a living just like the rest of us.

AMEN to that !!

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

If what I was told by a town employee is correct then Governors Island used to be part of Laconia.
They decided they did not want to be part of Laconia because they were being taxed too much. They decided to become part of Gilford.
Once again from what I was told, the taxes from the Island are what keep the taxes for the rest of the Gilford residents as low as they are.

Now I don’t know how many are, year round residents on the Island, but I can’t have a lot of sympathy for 2nd home owners, when so many can’t even afford one home.
And as far as I know we all know ahead of time what we are getting into before we sign on the dotted line.

We just got our tax bill for our 2nd home in Northern Maine and it was a staggering $1100.00. Yes that is eleven hundred. No complaints here, it’s a small price to pay for the solitude we enjoy during all of the summer holidays when the lake is a zoo. Not to mention the thousands of miles of snowmobile riding from our doorstep.

Not picking a fight here, but just because they have a second home does not mean they should have to pay more for it because they can afford it.

[Heaven]

Well help me out then, does Gilford charge a greater tax rate for GI than for other areas of Gilford?

[Ms Merge]

Originally Posted by Heaven

Her arrogance is appalling. I'm sure her personal success had many footsteps along a path built and paid for by others.

Just to clear the air on this post....During the Selectman's meeting I was asking the Selectman to review the Town Employee's benefits and salaries. I have looked at them and I must say that they are better than most of the private sector. In addition they got raises every year throughout this economic down turn, absent the department heads who did not get raises last year. I mentioned the falling assessments as the towns revenue base and that in the private sector when we have falling revenue we usually freeze or cut wages and benefits. The Town Administrator Scott Dunn replied 'no town employee ownes two homes on Governor's Island'. This was his way of telling me that I had no right to complain and that I should just shut up and take it. My response was that my success and the success of any of my neighbors should not be an excuse to over pay the town employees. Like I have said in the past...they do not NEED the money they WANT it and take it by force through taxation.

With regards to my preceived personal success. Heaven, I am a product of the public schools. I did not have weathly parents. I paid my way through college, married a guy with a similar background. We started a company (www.futureplus.com) and have done fairly well. I challenge you to find the path that we followed that was paid for by others. Our company has had no banks, no bail outs, no TARP just hard work from us and our dedicated employees. We are the American Dream and we were fortunate enough to buy waterfront real estate on this beautiful lake. Never did I imagine it would have turned me into a property rights advocate (see www.NHPropertyRights.com). We pay good wages and benefits to our employees. My question, Isn't this the kind of people you want to attract to your community?

Regards,
Ms Merge

[Heaven]

My point was that you went to a public school, despite your claim that nothing was "paid for by others", , , well what do you call that?

Also look back to the time periods when your company was doing well and you were rewarding your employees accordingly (you WERE weren't you???). Municipal employees do not get rewarded at a level of the private sector during the cyclical economic booms.

And your american dream was paid for by people purchasing your product(s). It is a two way street.

[Ms Merge]

Well folks I must admit had I known this topic was blazing away for the last month I would have chimed in earlier. Although I am not the person who first came up with the idea for GI to form its own town (they have thought about it for decades) I have been the most recent person to champion the idea.

Just to clear the record...the comment in the LDS about my success being an open checkbook for big government was NOT in response to GI becoming its own town. If you read the article it was a response to comments from the Town Administrator Scott Dunn on my comments about the growth of the Gilford local government.

From 2000 to 2010 the municipal budget has grown 59% while the population increase has been only 4%. The school budget for Gilford has grown 69% while the student population has decreased by over 300 students. The issue is that Gilford local government GREW into the housing bubble. The assessments went up as the bubble grew and they grew the spending. It would have been a perfect time to keep the spending increase at the rate of inflation so that the tax rate was lowered. Gilford did not NEED this money...it WANTED it so it took it by force mostly from the non resident tax payers. 48% of the taxes in Gilford are paid for by people that cannot vote.

Governors Island pays 4.1M in property taxes (and GI was never part of Laconia). 1.1M goes to the town. The town has refused to redo GI's roads which are in pretty bad shape. If a GI resident dials 911 Laconia shows up first....GI gets very little for the 1.1M. GI has 12 students in the Gilford schools. GI residents pay 2M for those 12 students. That is $167,000.00 per student per year. Gilford now is a school listed as 'in need of improvement' as they have failed their AYP in 2 subjects 2 years in a row. The SAT scores are well below state average and barely at the national average yet the cost per student is twice national average.

Right now real estate values are crashing. However the town/school spending is not. So the assessments are dropping and the spending is flat so that means the tax rate goes up...for everyone...not just those 'rich' people on the water. Governors Island now has several sales BELOW assessed value and property is LISTED for below assessed value. The reason in part is because the real estate bubble has burst but the other reason is because Gilford's tax rate is high (except for Laconia) and buyers see the lack of services that they get on GI from Gilford. What few buyers there are for these waterfront homes buy in other towns. It is going to be very interesting as GI's assessments drop in a 'race to the bottom' and Gilford see's it tax rate sky rocket. Soon the people using the services will be paying for them and it will be interesting to see how they react. Gilford's goose that laid the golden egg ,year after year with the big assessments and very little pull on the services, is dead and not coming back anytime soon.

Barbara Aichinger
aka Ms. Merge

[IslandRadio]

Originally Posted by Ms Merge

Governors Island pays 4.1M in property taxes (and GI was never part of Laconia). 1.1M goes to the town.

Where does the remainder (and majority) of the property tax money go, if not to the town? I'm not overly familiar with New Hampshire tax procedures. Here in Mass, when I pay property taxes (to the Town in which I live), all of it goes to the Town. Then, the Town divides it between various local entities; schools, public safety, highway, etc.

Because Mass. has broad based taxes (I'm not arguing for or against, just reporting the facts), the town also receives money from the state, and this money is a significant portion of the town's revenue.

Do you mean 1.1M of G.I.'s 4.1M in property taxes goes to the Town's general government, and the remainder to schools and other entities within the town?

[Ms Merge]

In NH your property bill has 4 components. The first is the local government and yes the money goes right to them. The second is the local school district and yes the money goes right to them. The third is the county. The town actually cashes your check and writes the county a check. The last part of your tax bill goes to the state school fund and the town writes them a check. Based on the school funding formula some of the money may come back to your school district. So the property owners on Governor's Island together pay 1.1M directly to the town, 2.0 M to the Gilford school district and the last 1M goes to the county and state school fund.

Regards,
Ms Merge

[Heaven]

Point one, there is never a justification for opting out of school spending because an area, street, family or whatever has "only x" students.

Point two, even if a new town were formed you'd STILL be a non-resident taxpayer.

Point three, Gilford didn't STEAL the tax money, it was approved by VOTERS.

[Ms Merge]

Originally Posted by Heaven

Point one, there is never a justification for opting out of school spending because an area, street, family or whatever has "only x" students.

Point two, even if a new town were formed you'd STILL be a non-resident taxpayer.

Point three, Gilford didn't STEAL the tax money, it was approved by VOTERS.

Heaven, My suggestion is not that the new town of Governor's Island not pay for the education of its residents. They indeed would but at a much lower cost. In fact I have proposed that a private fund be started that would pay 25% of a private education so that the island children would have choice.

You are correct that most of the property owners on Governors Island would still be non residents and thus not able to vote but we have seen many more people start to choose GI as their primary residence. I am one example of that. Currently we have about 100 registered voters on the island.

With regards to your last comment. Did I use the word STEAL? I have often complained about the budgets that are presented to the voters. Their is usually only one and it is higher than the last and the default budget is higher than the proposed one! I just have a real issue with the fact that Gilford is not more considerate of the large number of non resident tax payers in the town. The tax rate is simply too high.

[fatlazyless]

Since about October, 2007, the Gilford Police Dept has been represented through collective bargaining with the town by the Teamsters Union. So, how do the property tax payers of Gilford like them apples what with the Teamsters Union www.teamsters.org negotiator squaring off against the town with regard to police salary pay, overtime, family health & dental insurance, vacation days, sick leave and pension benefits?

If you google "Gilford NH Police Dept joins Teamsters Union", you can read up on it.

The same is true for Meredith Police too, but with a different union group, and not the Teamsters. I think it is www.afscme.org/home for the Meredith Police. The motto of the AFSCME is "We make America happen!" and what it should really say is "We make America happen for our members, thanks to your property taxes!"

Do the police pay property taxes too? Sure they do, some of them do anyway, and who can blame them for wanting to have a "good job at a good wage," but when the entire town budget is paid from the local property tax, it just seems like an out of whack tax system.

One strong reason why the local selectmen's role as a low-paid, volunteer town administrative board gets compromised is because many of the towns give their selectmen the same excellent family insurance policy coverage as their police and town employees. By getting the same expensive health insurance coverage, it's like everybody in the town's employment is all in the same one big boat that includes selectmen, teachers, police, fire, dpw, administrative, etc. They all in the same big boat, and it's kept afloat by the local property tax.

Supposedly, the board of selectmen is up at the steering wheel, driving the boat, and the selectmen's position was originally designed to be a "check & balance" that would keep local spending down low what with the selectmen being a volunteer, low-paying position that would attract people who did it to be a local volunteer and to be fiscally conservative. It used to work like that, but once the selectmen board, who are steering the boat and got their hand on the throttle control, once they start to get the same very expensive health insurance as everybody else in town, then they is basically all in the same boat, and have pretty much the same financial interests.

So who is steering the boat that wants to keep the town cruising along at a nice slow, conservative, low-cost speed? Is there anybody on-board in Gilford. It seems like it probably could be that the Gilford Budget Committee would do a better job of steering that Gilford boat because the BudCom members do NOT get the Gilford health insurance coverage that the selectmen get.

Plus, Gilford is an SB-2 town, so that must help a lot to keep that Gilford boat running along at a slower, less expensive speed, what with all warrant articles decided by a secret, all day long, ballot vote, as opposed to a town meeting, show of hands, vote.

So, it seems like stripping away all the health insurance benefits from the Gilford selectmen would probably change the tenor of the select board, because it would become a position that was a low pay, per diem, true volunteer position.