Island Living Questions

[RidgeRunner31]

Hello everyone ... I have been reading these forums for a few months and finally decided to join. I noticed people are very helpful and post a lot of good information.

My wife and I have rented a home (mainland) on Winnipesaukee every summer since 2006. We like it so much that we are toying with the idea of purchasing our own place.

I feel the only realistic waterfront/water access properties we can afford would be an island property or a home in an association with a shared beach and deeded boat slip. I’m leaning towards an island property, because we are adventurous, own a boat and it seems like the best bang for the buck for a vacation home. I’m aware that island living presents challenges such as trash removal, lugging stuff, and it’s seasonal, but I do like the allure of getting away from it all.

One of my wife’s biggest concerns with island property is the distance to the mainland, because when friends and family come to visit we will have to ferry them back and forth. I was wondering which islands have the easiest access to the mainland? What islands have parking on the mainland? I guess in a nutshell, which islands make things logistically the easiest? I’m guessing Bear Island (a stones throw to Shep Brown’s) and Rattlesnake Island (association lot) would be high on the list.

I would be grateful to hear any experiences about island living. Does anyone have any regrets about purchasing an island property or was it one of the best decisions you made?

Also, what are some common expenses that come along with owning an island property that people typically don’t think of?

Finally, I know it’s a big island, but I noticed there are quite a few homes for sale on Rattlesnake. I was wondering if are any Rattlesnake owners that could help me out if I have any questions about the island. I figure it’s easy to get the info from owners before talking to an agent.

Any other helpful information would definitely be much appreciated.

Thank you!

Mike

[Slickcraft]

First of all, RR31, welcome to the forum. No doubt you will get many helpful responses.

We, as with all of the other island residents that we know, have absolutely no regrets for owning island property. Now each island, and often each side of an island, is unique. So it may take a bit of exploring to see what is best for you. And of course each of us will quick to tell why our island is so perfect, I will be no exception to that.

Welch has power and phone, as many do today. As Gilford island residents we have use of the Glendale town docks, launching, parking and trash dumpsters. No small consideration. However the tax rate is higher than islands in Alton such as Rattlesnake. The trip to Glendale and back is a straight shot but a mile of open water to FL 26. To do that in any weather takes a reasonably capable boat.

As an island resident it helps a lot to be handy with tools and be able to remedy most common maintenance issues. In general you have to think of anything that could go wrong and, well, at some time it probably will. Island Support Service can help with most anything beyond your skill base or with logistics such as getting the new sofa to the island. While island property is less expensive than mainland waterfront, it is generally more expensive to have any work done or improvements made.

One problem with Welch, rare to see a camp for sale. Best of luck.

[KPW]

http://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyle...1lJ/story.html

[Misha888]

Originally Posted by KPW

http://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyle...1lJ/story.html

Ensure you have a good working generator so you don't need to borrow one from your mainland friend who might need theirs as well.

Happy hunting.

[Coolbreeze]

Rent before you buy. Island living is not for everyone. High labor costs both personally and financially. Lots of self dependency is needed.

[Bmcgov78]

I always wondered if the Island residents are year round? and if so how do u handle the Ice and the in between stages before the lake is fully frozen

[Misha888]

Originally Posted by Bmcgov78

I always wondered if the Island residents are year round? and if so how do u handle the Ice and the in between stages before the lake is fully frozen

I don't think year round is possible unless you have an air boat. And even then, it would be tough for the average person. But anything is possible if there is a will, there is a way. I just don't have the will.

We look at island properties all the time. Plan is to live on the island in the summer and rent our place. The commute and not being able to live there year round is a deterrent for us.

[hig]

We have a place on Rattlesnake, and I would be happy to answer any questions you have. I don't know much about the other islands, but Rattlesnake had a lot going for it in my opinion.

The association owned boat ramp and two parking lots (one with a secure section for boat storage) is hard to beat. The interior of the island is association property and has walking trails and access to the highest spot on the lake with amazing views. The trails are only open to residents and guests. The minimal association fee is well worth the money, and Alton property taxes are also lower than most other towns.

I agree with the other posters about island living. You have to be self sufficient and handy or it may not be a fit.

The other factor to consider is seasonality. Realistically, an island property is only useful for six months of the year so the cost per usable month is really about the same as mainland property.

I wouldn't swap though :-)

[IslandRadio]

We're on Rattlesnake now, but have rented on Welch and Barndoor over many years.

A few thoughts:

1) You should be handy and be able to fix things fairly easily. Yes, neighbors chip in and help, but really you should have some idea of what you're doing.

2) You should be in reasonably good physical condition. Carrying everything from food to building materials back and forth is a way of life.

3) You need respect the weather and the lake conditions. These are matters of safety. You will end up dodging weather and lake conditions with respect to trips to the mainland, etc.

4) You need to be more independent than on the mainland.

Oops! Speaking of that, we JUST lost power - REALLY!!! (the computer and other equipment is on a U.P.S.). I am going to post this now and come back and edit later. I don't know how much time I have before the U.P.S. runs out!

[RidgeRunner31]

Originally Posted by IslandRadio

We're on Rattlesnake now, but have rented on Welch and Barndoor over many years.

A few thoughts:

1) You should be handy and be able to fix things fairly easily. Yes, neighbors chip in and help, but really you should have some idea of what you're doing.

2) You should be in reasonably good physical condition. Carrying everything from food to building materials back and forth is a way of life.

3) You need respect the weather and the lake conditions. These are matters of safety. You will end up dodging weather and lake conditions with respect to trips to the mainland, etc.

4) You need to be more independent than on the mainland.

Oops! Speaking of that, we JUST lost power - REALLY!!! (the computer and other equipment is on a U.P.S.). I am going to post this now and come back and edit later. I don't know how much time I have before the U.P.S. runs out!

Those are all good points. We live in a rural area, so we have become handy over time. Plus we have family members that are handy as well. Fortunately we are in good shape and exercise often, so carrying goods should not be an issue. I agree about respecting the weather/ lake conditions. I don’t think I would be brave enough to own something that faces the broads!

[IslandRadio]

Originally Posted by RidgeRunner31

Those are all good points. We live in a rural area, so we have become handy over time. Plus we have family members that are handy as well. Fortunately we are in good shape and exercise often, so carrying goods should not be an issue. I agree about respecting the weather/ lake conditions. I don’t think I would be brave enough to own something that faces the broads!

It sounds as if you have "the right stuff" to be an Islander

All of the islands have their unique charm and characteristics. I liked Rattlesnake for a couple of reasons, one of which was the hiking. You can get real exercise doing what can be a fairly challenging hike (if you walk the island end to end and back - that's quite a lot of up-and-down action, and it's around 5 miles of total distance when you factor in everything).

We are not on the broads side, but the broads side does afford some fantastic views. The non-broads side is much more protected from the weather, and because of that you don't see a lot of breakwaters over here.

Of course a lot depends on how much money you've allocated to make this a reality. There's a "handyman special" type of property over on our side which in my view is pretty attractive. It's a good sized house with a reasonable dock and (I think) an approved septic. It's been unusued for a few years (from what I understand from someone who looked at it) and I think the asking is in the higher $200s... Might be listed by Island R.E. but I can't swear to that. It's easy to find - the house faces to the SSW, and the dock is (or was) cranked up.

Just thoughts...

PM me if you want to come over and chat, hike the island or meet other islanders.

Regards,

Steve

[RidgeRunner31]

Originally Posted by IslandRadio

It sounds as if you have "the right stuff" to be an Islander

All of the islands have their unique charm and characteristics. I liked Rattlesnake for a couple of reasons, one of which was the hiking. You can get real exercise doing what can be a fairly challenging hike (if you walk the island end to end and back - that's quite a lot of up-and-down action, and it's around 5 miles of total distance when you factor in everything).

We are not on the broads side, but the broads side does afford some fantastic views. The non-broads side is much more protected from the weather, and because of that you don't see a lot of breakwaters over here.

Of course a lot depends on how much money you've allocated to make this a reality. There's a "handyman special" type of property over on our side which in my view is pretty attractive. It's a good sized house with a reasonable dock and (I think) an approved septic. It's been unusued for a few years (from what I understand from someone who looked at it) and I think the asking is in the higher $200s... Might be listed by Island R.E. but I can't swear to that. It's easy to find - the house faces to the SSW, and the dock is (or was) cranked up.

Just thoughts...

PM me if you want to come over and chat, hike the island or meet other islanders.
Regards,

Steve

Thanks Steve. I'm grateful for the advice/help. The hiking aspect is definitely appealing. That is a nice plus about Rattlesnake. I think I saw that handyman special with the cranked up dock on Realtor.com. I will PM you with some questions I have about Rattlesnake. Thanks again. Mike

[Orion]

This topic has come up several times since we started living on Cow Island 13 years ago. Some links to related threads below.

The concept of extra "lugging" always puzzles me as the only added effort is the transfer of groceries from your car to your boat. Most boat access places allow you to park pretty close to your boat (20' away at Harilla Landing). You will need to secure access to mainland either by owning or renting a dock or rack somewhere (i.e. for Cow Island: Harilla Landing Yacht Club; Pier 19; Melvin Village Marina; Pick Point; Quayside Yacht Club) Trash removal is not a problem if your mainland facility has dumpsters (most do). As far as services, there are several handyman services available throughout the Lake that will be happy to help you out with whatever you need done. And the minor added cost of having the service done on an island is likely far less than the added cost of taxes on the mainland.

Most of the islands have power and phone. These days it's almost a must to have Internet access to keep in touch and get news and most important, weather. We use DSL but some use wireless broadband. Check availability where you plan to buy.

I wouldn't trade island living for anything. The camaraderie of fellow islanders is great. Plenty of help from you neighbors and frequent get-togethers to share the good times.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ad.php?t=17325

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17321

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ad.php?t=17212

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ead.php?t=3359

Good luck.

[rsmlp]

Seems to me affordability is the LAST reason you should consider when deciding to buy on an island. Personally, I wouldn't even consider it. Too much of a PITA but I can understand the allure. Totally agree that you should def RENT to get a feel for it-and not for a week. Maybe rent for a month to understand what it is really like.

[Orion]

Originally Posted by rsmlp

Seems to me affordability is the LAST reason you should consider when deciding to buy on an island. Personally, I wouldn't even consider it. Too much of a PITA but I can understand the allure. Totally agree that you should def RENT to get a feel for it-and not for a week. Maybe rent for a month to understand what it is really like.

I still don't see what constitutes a "PITA" regarding island living. I have experienced little to no inconvenience (unless you are looking for a year-round residence) and the tradeoffs are well worth it.

[upthesaukee]

My wife says that there is no way she would want to have a place on an island that does not have a bridge to the mainland. She does not want to have to pack stuff up, load it on the boat, head on out to the island, unload the boat, and carry the stuff into the place and put it away.

Me, I would not have a problem with that.

Her PITA is her opinion, and I respect that. Fortunately we live a half mile of the lake and have our boat at West Alton Marina...Almost like having lakeshore property. What we can't do is just walk down to the shore and take a quick dip on a hot day. (or bathe in the lake, but that is a whole different thread )

Some people like Chevy, others like Ford, others like...

[jazzman]

There are islander types and non-island types...

If you're going to live on an island, you probably want to be comfortable with basic handyman type tasks (of course there are plenty of examples of stuff built on islands from people who should never have owned a hammer). It will cost you 2x to get most service performed for you.

If the power/phone/internet goes out, don't expect it to come back in an hour.

Depending on the island location, you really have to live with the weather. If you're on exposed water. There will be times when you're stuck. Getting "off" is usually easier than getting "on" since you'll probably be docking someplace protected. Getting "out to the island" on a really windy day might be impossible.

Getting off and on in the dark can be an adventure too if you're island approach has lots of rocks.

For me the biggest attraction is the privacy. I'll go a whole mid-week without seeing another person May/June/Sept/Oct. I think privacy is very dependent on location though. If you're on the sw side of Rattlesnake you're going to see a lot of boat traffic. If you're on the sw side of Sleeper, you're going to see even more boat traffic + the west alton sandbar craziness.

If you're the type (or the rest of your family is), that needs to get out and do things constantly you're probably not going to be happy on an island.

You might get internet via DSL if you're on the right spot of the right island, but don't expect enough bandwidth for your kids to be constantly be playing online games and watching video. Cell internet works pretty well on many islands these days, but the charges will add up fast.

Try before you buy is probably a great strategy... At least get your real estate agent to take you out there on a nice summer weekend to see how busy things are.

Most places you'll dock your boat on the mainland will have parking and dumpsters. You're likely to be limited in parking though, at least on busy times. It can be a pain shuttling your guests back for forth. Unless you're real close to your mainland the gas costs will add up too.

All in all, I wouldn't trade it for anything..........

[Chaselady]

When you consider island living you also need to consider your accessibility as you get older. We bought up here 30 years ago. At the time our real estate agent showed us many properties on islands that we would have to be a mountain goat to get down to the water. Fortunately some of those stairways raised a red flag in our minds. We thought ahead, fortunately, to the days when our knees, hips and hearts would not allow us to get to the water.....
We looked elsewhere on the lake, and found a flat lot. Are you planning on growing old on your island?

[RidgeRunner31]

Originally Posted by Chaselady

When you consider island living you also need to consider your accessibility as you get older. We bought up here 30 years ago. At the time our real estate agent showed us many properties on islands that we would have to be a mountain goat to get down to the water. Fortunately some of those stairways raised a red flag in our minds. We thought ahead, fortunately, to the days when our knees, hips and hearts would not allow us to get to the water.....
We looked elsewhere on the lake, and found a flat lot. Are you planning on growing old on your island?

We are in our late thirties, but we do have older family members that would visit.

I did notice some homes had lots and lots of stairs to get up and down to the water.

I'm hoping what we find will be for the long term, but a lot can change in 10, 20, 30 years.

[RidgeRunner31]

Thank you all for taking the time to provide some great feedback! It is greatly appreciated.

[jazzman]

Don't be afraid of the Broads... It's beautiful.

You have to have a breakwater, but most places facing open water have them by now. Even on the rough days, you can usually find a time to get in/out if you go early or late. Once in awhile a really strong front will go through in early/late season and it takes a couple days for things to settle down. You just watch the wind forecast and adapt. Even the Alton facing side of Rattlesnake has a bunch of pretty exposed places north of the peninsula.

My reservations about the Broads side of Rattlesnake is that the lots are almost all steep and many places have poor foundation piers. The combination of steep slopes, clay soils, lots of rocks and a place that never gets much sun to dry out, makes it hard to the the foundation piers right. We passed on 2 places for that reason (and one is still for sale 3+ years later).

A place on the Broads on the East side of the lake is perfect for me. Nice wild weather, but sun most of the day and not so much boat traffic.

Of course there are only a handful of islands with those specs. And I don't think there are any properties for sale on them.

One other thing to maybe consider is emergency access. Wolfeboro and Alton both have 911 boats that have done a good job the times I've heard of them being needed. I don't know about the more northern towns.

[RidgeRunner31]

Originally Posted by jazzman

Don't be afraid of the Broads... It's beautiful.

You have to have a breakwater, but most places facing open water have them by now. Even on the rough days, you can usually find a time to get in/out if you go early or late. Once in awhile a really strong front will go through in early/late season and it takes a couple days for things to settle down. You just watch the wind forecast and adapt. Even the Alton facing side of Rattlesnake has a bunch of pretty exposed places north of the peninsula.

My reservations about the Broads side of Rattlesnake is that the lots are almost all steep and many places have poor foundation piers. The combination of steep slopes, clay soils, lots of rocks and a place that never gets much sun to dry out, makes it hard to the the foundation piers right. We passed on 2 places for that reason (and one is still for sale 3+ years later).

A place on the Broads on the East side of the lake is perfect for me. Nice wild weather, but sun most of the day and not so much boat traffic.

Of course there are only a handful of islands with those specs. And I don't think there are any properties for sale on them.

One other thing to maybe consider is emergency access. Wolfeboro and Alton both have 911 boats that have done a good job the times I've heard of them being needed. I don't know about the more northern towns.

Ok, I will keep an open mind about being on the Broads! The views are beautiful. Thanks for the info about some of the issues you encountered when looking at homes on the Broads side of Rattlesnake. I did not think of that with foundation piers. Also, I will add emergency access to my list as something to consider as well! Thanks again.

[RLW]

RidgeRunner31, I was just browsing through the forum and noticed that you are fairly new to posting on the forum and glad you have joined us. Have fun and enjoy the Winni Forum while making many new friends.

Thanks for joining in on the forum threads and hope to see a lot more of you here.

[RidgeRunner31]

Originally Posted by RLW

RidgeRunner31, I was just browsing through the forum and noticed that you are fairly new to posting on the forum and glad you have joined us. Have fun and enjoy the Winni Forum while making many new friends.

Thanks for joining in on the forum threads and hope to see a lot more of you here.

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!

[dippasan]

My wife and I bought on Sleepers Island in 2010.
Absolutely no regrets!

What we love about it:

• You need to be self reliant
• Your neighbors are self reliant also, but everyone helps each other (It's how life should be)
• It's quiet. No roads or driveways
• You definitely feel as though you have "escaped"
• Everything is a little harder and that is a big part of the charm.
• Watching the official "Ice OUt Thread" and the various web cams with great anticipation on this Forum in the spring

What we don't love about it:

• Nothing

[Descant]

Buy now and you'll be happy with your camp. However, in only a few years, it won't be yours anymore. It will be the family camp. This will be the place for family reunions after you've all made three job changes around the country, down-sized for retirement, and so forth. At some point, you may decide that island living doesn't fit your lifestyle anymore and the kids can't yet afford to take over, so you sell. And for the rest of eternity, the younger ones will say "wish you hadn't sold, we could have found a way". This may not be a short term purchase. Look at the tax assessors listings on-line and you'll see that many of these properties are in some sort of trust. That's part of the reason there isn't a lot of turnover. They're now into the 2nd, 3rd or 4th generation.

There may be some appeal to hiking on Rattlesnake, Bear, etc., but on the smaller islands (the Forties and the Varneys for example) there may be more water sports as they protect each other and you can easily walk or row to the protected side on a windy day. Great views but few canoes on the east side of Rattlesnake is my guess.

Docking: Room for your boat, the kids boat and a guest boat? Can you pull the Whaler, canoe, kayaks jetski, sunfish up on shore easily for winter storage? After awhile on an island, boats tend to accumulate. We've had more, but right now, we're down to our boat, the little boat, three kayaks and a canoe. And my daughter just got a stand up paddle board. We paid $75 for the canoe, and all three kayaks were raffle or promotional wins. But once you have the opportunity, you start slowing down when you see a boat for sale in a yard, or start looking at Craig's list for water toys.

So, land, exposure, docking, proximity to services. You can always modify the buildings.

Be prepared for a lifestyle change. You're not just buying some real estate.

[RidgeRunner31]

Originally Posted by Descant

Buy now and you'll be happy with your camp. However, in only a few years, it won't be yours anymore. It will be the family camp. This will be the place for family reunions after you've all made three job changes around the country, down-sized for retirement, and so forth. At some point, you may decide that island living doesn't fit your lifestyle anymore and the kids can't yet afford to take over, so you sell. And for the rest of eternity, the younger ones will say "wish you hadn't sold, we could have found a way". This may not be a short term purchase. Look at the tax assessors listings on-line and you'll see that many of these properties are in some sort of trust. That's part of the reason there isn't a lot of turnover. They're now into the 2nd, 3rd or 4th generation.

There may be some appeal to hiking on Rattlesnake, Bear, etc., but on the smaller islands (the Forties and the Varneys for example) there may be more water sports as they protect each other and you can easily walk or row to the protected side on a windy day. Great views but few canoes on the east side of Rattlesnake is my guess.

Docking: Room for your boat, the kids boat and a guest boat? Can you pull the Whaler, canoe, kayaks jetski, sunfish up on shore easily for winter storage? After awhile on an island, boats tend to accumulate. We've had more, but right now, we're down to our boat, the little boat, three kayaks and a canoe. And my daughter just got a stand up paddle board. We paid $75 for the canoe, and all three kayaks were raffle or promotional wins. But once you have the opportunity, you start slowing down when you see a boat for sale in a yard, or start looking at Craig's list for water toys.

So, land, exposure, docking, proximity to services. You can always modify the buildings.

Be prepared for a lifestyle change. You're not just buying some real estate.

Great post...that is my goal. If I do purchase something, I want it to turn into a family camp and hopefully it will stay in the family for generations. Also, docking will be key. Hopefully I can grow my toy collection. Thank you for sharing your experience.

[B-Laps]

My In-Laws have a place on Little Bear Island and the wife and I stayed over a few times this summer. This was also my first summer with a Boat and here are my thoughts.

• We have a slip at West Alton Marina. Luckily the weekends we came out were nice, but going across the boards on some windy days would have been treacherous. My in-laws have a slip much closer to the island, and it's a more sheltered trip over.
• I greatly underestimated the amount of time it takes to go Door to Door at first, you'll just need to find out what works for how you pack your gear. The time it takes from parking at the Marina to sitting on the sun deck with a beer in hand, is at least an hour.
• Pay attention to the docks at any property you're considering. If you see whips or what seems to be an excessive amount of gear to protect the boats, it's likely that there is either a lot of wave action, or a lot of boat traffic causing boat damage. It's a good idea to check out the traffic of an area on a busy Saturday to see what you can be in for.
• Many island properties were built without septic approval, either because it wasn't needed or it's been done without the proper process. It's becoming more and more difficult to sell without a full septic system, so any properties that already have the work done will help ensure that you don't have as many hassles in the future.

I've very much enjoyed my time at the island this year, and am hoping to spend a lot more of next summer out on the lake. If my in-laws didn't have the accommodations that they have at their camp, I'd be working very hard on how to make our own island property a reality.

[jkjoshuatree]

...feel free to PM me.

We've been on Bear for over 40 years.

[RidgeRunner31]

Originally Posted by B-Laps

My In-Laws have a place on Little Bear Island and the wife and I stayed over a few times this summer. This was also my first summer with a Boat and here are my thoughts.

• We have a slip at West Alton Marina. Luckily the weekends we came out were nice, but going across the boards on some windy days would have been treacherous. My in-laws have a slip much closer to the island, and it's a more sheltered trip over.
• I greatly underestimated the amount of time it takes to go Door to Door at first, you'll just need to find out what works for how you pack your gear. The time it takes from parking at the Marina to sitting on the sun deck with a beer in hand, is at least an hour.
• Pay attention to the docks at any property you're considering. If you see whips or what seems to be an excessive amount of gear to protect the boats, it's likely that there is either a lot of wave action, or a lot of boat traffic causing boat damage. It's a good idea to check out the traffic of an area on a busy Saturday to see what you can be in for.
• Many island properties were built without septic approval, either because it wasn't needed or it's been done without the proper process. It's becoming more and more difficult to sell without a full septic system, so any properties that already have the work done will help ensure that you don't have as many hassles in the future.

I've very much enjoyed my time at the island this year, and am hoping to spend a lot more of next summer out on the lake. If my in-laws didn't have the accommodations that they have at their camp, I'd be working very hard on how to make our own island property a reality.

Those are some great points to keep in mind!! I will add those 3 items to my list. Thank you for sharing your thoughts! I did not even think of the septic issue.

[Chaselady]

Originally Posted by RidgeRunner31

We are in our late thirties, but we do have older family members that would visit.

I did notice some homes had lots and lots of stairs to get up and down to the water.

I'm hoping what we find will be for the long term, but a lot can change in 10, 20, 30 years.

We were in our 30s/40s when we bought also. The past 30 years have flown by. Life is much more complicated on the island. We LOVE it, but it honestly can be twice the work. Grocery shopping can be interesting, boat to car to store to boat to dock and into the cottage. Now imagine if your cottage is up 50 stairs or so. I find after 30 years we invite much smaller groups, and delegate our guests to bring as much of the heavy stuff as possible!
If we had bought some of the other listings we were shown back then, we would have to put up a for sale sign now. Be smart, think ahead, choose wisely.
We love the solitude, the close knit neighbors which developed into close friendships, the lack of car traffic. Our child grew up wearing a life vest and running free on the island. Our dogs have always loved it here. We wouldn't trade it for anything on the mainland.

[Bmcgov78]

I always loved parker island.... It my if I won mega millions dream...lol

[tis]

Originally Posted by Chaselady

We were in our 30s/40s when we bought also. The past 30 years have flown by. Life is much more complicated on the island. We LOVE it, but it honestly can be twice the work. Grocery shopping can be interesting, boat to car to store to boat to dock and into the cottage. Now imagine if your cottage is up 50 stairs or so. I find after 30 years we invite much smaller groups, and delegate our guests to bring as much of the heavy stuff as possible!
If we had bought some of the other listings we were shown back then, we would have to put up a for sale sign now. Be smart, think ahead, choose wisely.
We love the solitude, the close knit neighbors which developed into close friendships, the lack of car traffic. Our child grew up wearing a life vest and running free on the island. Our dogs have always loved it here. We wouldn't trade it for anything on the mainland.

You definitely made the VERY BEST choice!!! It's wonderful that you have enjoyed it so much and still love it there! It IS a great spot!!

[RidgeRunner31]

Originally Posted by Chaselady

We were in our 30s/40s when we bought also. The past 30 years have flown by. Life is much more complicated on the island. We LOVE it, but it honestly can be twice the work. Grocery shopping can be interesting, boat to car to store to boat to dock and into the cottage. Now imagine if your cottage is up 50 stairs or so. I find after 30 years we invite much smaller groups, and delegate our guests to bring as much of the heavy stuff as possible!
If we had bought some of the other listings we were shown back then, we would have to put up a for sale sign now. Be smart, think ahead, choose wisely.
We love the solitude, the close knit neighbors which developed into close friendships, the lack of car traffic. Our child grew up wearing a life vest and running free on the island. Our dogs have always loved it here. We wouldn't trade it for anything on the mainland.

Thanks for the good advice. We will be sure to be smart, take our time, and think ahead (which is an excellent point). Your last paragraph described what my wife and I hope to get out of this. Hopefully we will be as lucky as you.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by rsmlp

Seems to me affordability is the LAST reason you should consider when deciding to buy on an island. Personally, I wouldn't even consider it. Too much of a PITA but I can understand the allure. Totally agree that you should def RENT to get a feel for it-and not for a week. Maybe rent for a month to understand what it is really like.

The problem with renting is most folks who rent for a week or two in the summer will have not get a true feel of the issues involved with owning on an island. The real impact of owning an island property is felt over the length of season when various conditions/problems are encountered. For example the weather at the time of spring opening or fall shutdown is different from the July/August vacation season. If you could ever do a full season rental that would be a be helpful for you to get more of a feel for the experience.

You mentioned lots of property for sale on Rattlesnake above and in another post someone spoke of how islands differ from side to side in many cases. In the case of Rattlesnake the east facing property is much different from the west facing property. West is calm and protected, properties on this side are close to the launch and there is obviously westerly orientation (think sun in the afternoon when you will be swimming or sitting on the deck). Alternatively the east side properties are exposed to the broads so there the lake can be especially rough, the views are spectacular and you have easterly orientation (think sun in the morning and shade in the afternoon). I also believe most of the east side lots are steep.

The difference between island property responses reflects the variability of conditions with island property. For example Orion above talks about how easy it is and Island Radio speaks of the difficulties. Likely, Orion's property on Cow Island is on a flat lot with easy access. Island Radio on the other hand is situated on the broadside (easterly) of Rattlesnake and he likely has rough water to contend with and a steep lot so getting there is more difficult. In any event, you get the idea. Take your time and really think things through. Best of luck!

[RidgeRunner31]

Originally Posted by rsmlp

Seems to me affordability is the LAST reason you should consider when deciding to buy on an island. Personally, I wouldn't even consider it. Too much of a PITA but I can understand the allure. Totally agree that you should def RENT to get a feel for it-and not for a week. Maybe rent for a month to understand what it is really like.

Point taken, but to have a home (say 1,300sqft 3bed , 1 bath) on the mainland with owned waterfront is significantly more expensive than an island home. Since we are just looking for a summer vacation home I'm just trying to find out what gets us the best bang for the buck. There is a lot to consider and we are just weighing our options.

[Leoskeys]

Any easy spot to see which islands have electricity and which don't?

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by Leoskeys

Any easy spot to see which islands have electricity and which don't?

One of the biggest ones that doesn't is Diamond.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Leoskeys

Any easy spot to see which islands have electricity and which don't?

Probably the easiest way is to simply ask about a specific island on this forum.

Dan

[Leoskeys]

I know Diamond and Camp Islands have no power. Any others of significance(size/popularity) people can think of?

[MDoug]

Originally Posted by RidgeRunner31

Hello everyone ... I have been reading these forums for a few months and finally decided to join. I noticed people are very helpful and post a lot of good information.

My wife and I have rented a home (mainland) on Winnipesaukee every summer since 2006. We like it so much that we are toying with the idea of purchasing our own place.

I feel the only realistic waterfront/water access properties we can afford would be an island property or a home in an association with a shared beach and deeded boat slip. I’m leaning towards an island property, because we are adventurous, own a boat and it seems like the best bang for the buck for a vacation home. I’m aware that island living presents challenges such as trash removal, lugging stuff, and it’s seasonal, but I do like the allure of getting away from it all.

Be aware that taxes are high and will get even higher over time. Also, slip fees, boat storage and maintenance costs are getting higher each year at the local marinas. A decade ago our slip rental cost $1250; now it's $2600!!

One of my wife’s biggest concerns with island property is the distance to the mainland, because when friends and family come to visit we will have to ferry them back and forth. I was wondering which islands have the easiest access to the mainland? What islands have parking on the mainland? I guess in a nutshell, which islands make things logistically the easiest? I’m guessing Bear Island (a stones throw to Shep Brown’s) and Rattlesnake Island (association lot) would be high on the list.

I would be grateful to hear any experiences about island living. Does anyone have any regrets about purchasing an island property or was it one of the best decisions you made?

Also, what are some common expenses that come along with owning an island property that people typically don’t think of?

Finally, I know it’s a big island, but I noticed there are quite a few homes for sale on Rattlesnake. I was wondering if are any Rattlesnake owners that could help me out if I have any questions about the island. I figure it’s easy to get the info from owners before talking to an agent.

Any other helpful information would definitely be much appreciated.

Thank you!

Mike

Be aware that island taxes are very high and will get even higher over time. Also, slip fees, boat storage and maintenance costs are getting higher each year at the local marinas. A decade ago our slip rental cost $1250; now it's $2600!!

[Leoskeys]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there isn't such a thing as "Island Taxes". If you live on an Island in Gilford, or on the mainland in Gilford, your tax rate is the same, correct? I understand the added cost of maintenance men, septic pumping, etc, is higher if you live on an island, but there are no additional taxes I'm aware of?

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Leoskeys

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there isn't such a thing as "Island Taxes". If you live on an Island in Gilford, or on the mainland in Gilford, your tax rate is the same, correct? I understand the added cost of maintenance men, septic pumping, etc, is higher if you live on an island, but there are no additional taxes I'm aware of?

Correct, the tax rate is the same in Gilford whether island property or mainland. The only difference is island property is considered seasonal yet you pay taxes year round.

Dan

[MDoug]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Correct, the tax rate is the same in Gilford whether island property or mainland. The only difference is island property is considered seasonal yet you pay taxes year round.

Dan

Thanks, Dan! And let's not forget that if you are an out-of stater, you cannot vote on local issues--like reducing taxes.

[MDoug]

Originally Posted by Leoskeys

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there isn't such a thing as "Island Taxes". If you live on an Island in Gilford, or on the mainland in Gilford, your tax rate is the same, correct? I understand the added cost of maintenance men, septic pumping, etc, is higher if you live on an island, but there are no additional taxes I'm aware of?

Right you are. But just start paying that tax for only a summer vacation and it will seem like an island tax, for sure!

[Leoskeys]

I see your point. Tax bill divided by 6 months is tough! So it can seem like twice as much.

[wifi]

I think the universal theory goes like: if someone owns property, regardless of where they live, they owe taxes on it. Its like if I take a month vacation in Europe, can I just tell the town I won't pay taxes for that month? Noooo..

As far as voting, if I bought a place in Boston, because I liked looking at the snow, could I vote to lower taxes in Boston? Noooooo..

Not looking to start controversy, its just the way it is all over the US and is what someone must accept when buying anywhere in a town they don't live in.

[RLW]

Leoskeys, I was just browsing through the forum and noticed that you are fairly new to posting on the forum and glad you have joined us. Have fun and enjoy the Winni Forum while making many new friends.

[MDoug]

Originally Posted by wifi

I think the universal theory goes like: if someone owns property, regardless of where they live, they owe taxes on it. Its like if I take a month vacation in Europe, can I just tell the town I won't pay taxes for that month? Noooo..

As far as voting, if I bought a place in Boston, because I liked looking at the snow, could I vote to lower taxes in Boston? Noooooo..

Not looking to start controversy, its just the way it is all over the US and is what someone must accept when buying anywhere in a town they don't live in.

As far as painful taxes go, that's no balm.
Wasn't there a war somewhere about taxation without representation?
I'm old and forgetful:

[wifi]

Originally Posted by MDoug

As far as painful taxes go, that's no balm.
Wasn't there a war somewhere about taxation without representation?
I'm old and forgetful:

I was simply pointing out how this is SOP in the US and not a unique problem in the Lakes Region (to bring this discussion back home). Perhaps a constitutional amendment can be made that gives everyone one vote for each piece of land they own. This would bring on a host of other problems..... including zoning boards being overloaded with people subdividing

[MDoug]

Originally Posted by wifi

I was simply pointing out how this is SOP in the US and not a unique problem in the Lakes Region (to bring this discussion back home). Perhaps a constitutional amendment can be made that gives everyone one vote for each piece of land they own. This would bring on a host of other problems..... including zoning boards being overloaded with people subdividing

When I took freshman English long ago, that was known as oversimplifying, was it not?

[Donzi Minx]

What great threads, and as always an amazing forum. I looked out at Diamond and Rattlesnake from the family property in West Alton, and as a kid it felt like reaching out to the stars. We always watched the lights on Diamond the slight generator ebb, and pulse. Of course we had the versatility of good old Route 11, and The Wise Owl, living on the mainland. Two summers at Camp Idlewild made a believer out of me though, I loved that rustic element of island living even though it was during the late 60's. Now that I no longer have the "chores" of opening / closing the family cottage in West Alton, and checking on it in the winter months the lure to get away from Boston, and back to paradise seems to be my only retirement goal! Someday....maybe.

[Pine Island Guy]

Originally Posted by Donzi Minx

Two summers at Camp Idlewild made a believer out of me though, I loved that rustic element of island living even though it was during the late 60's

DM - we may have crossed paths, I was at Camp Idlewild in '67 and '68 and loved 'island life' there too... so much so that I started looking for property in the early '90s (including a lot on Cow where the old amphitheater was), and ended up buying on Pine in 1998...

Couldn't be happier with the island decision, and waking up last Saturday morning and looking out across the frozen expanse... spectacular!!!

Don't let go of the dream... they really can come true!! -PIG

[Leoskeys]

Originally Posted by Pine Island Guy

DM - we may have crossed paths, I was at Camp Idlewild in '67 and '68 and loved 'island life' there too... so much so that I started looking for property in the early '90s (including a lot on Cow where the old amphitheater was), and ended up buying on Pine in 1998...

Couldn't be happier with the island decision, and waking up last Saturday morning and looking out across the frozen expanse... spectacular!!!

Don't let go of the dream... they really can come true!! -PIG

Pine Island Fuy,
Sounds like you use the home in the winter some? Do you hike out, snowmobile, drive?

[wifi]

Originally Posted by MDoug

When I took freshman English long ago, that was known as oversimplifying, was it not?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

[MDoug]

Originally Posted by wifi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

From your link--

Baker then notices that principles, including Occam's razor, are often expressed in a way that is not clear regarding which facet of "simplicity” — parsimony or elegance — is being referred to, and that in a hypothetical formulation the facets of simplicity may work in different directions: a simpler description may refer to a more complex hypothesis, and a more complex description may refer to a simpler hypothesis.[b]

[jazzman]

It all works out in the end.... Island properties are expensive to get to, expensive to maintain and accessible only for 6 months, so property costs about 1/3 of what the same house would cost on the mainland shore. You pay taxes on the value of the property, so they're much cheaper too.

[Diana]

We are on an "unimproved" island, no electricity. The property value is easily 5 times that of the buildings on the assessment. But they measure your shoreline and figure that into the taxes, as well as a "view tax". Plus it is different from town to town.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Diana

We are on an "unimproved" island, no electricity. The property value is easily 5 times that of the buildings on the assessment. But they measure your shoreline and figure that into the taxes, as well as a "view tax". Plus it is different from town to town.

There is no such thing as a "view tax" or a "waterfront tax". The tax rate is exactly the same no matter where you are. It is simply based on the assessed value of the property multiplied by the tax rate. It is really not that complicated. If your property is worth more because you have a great view or it is on the water then it is valued higher by the assessor. But there is no different tax rate that depends on the location or the view.

Another post referred to the seasonal use of island property and the fact that they are taxed year round. That is true but the island property may have a lower assessed value because of that island location and that will be reflected in the real estate taxes.

If you have a condo boat slip, such as at Mountain View Yacht Club, you pay the same tax rate but cannot use any town services like the library or the town beach, even though you are a Gilford taxpayer.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

There is no such thing as a "view tax" or a "waterfront tax". The tax rate is exactly the same no matter where you are. It is simply based on the assessed value of the property multiplied by the tax rate. It is really not that complicated. If your property is worth more because you have a great view or it is on the water then it is valued higher by the assessor. But there is no different tax rate that depends on the location or the view.

Another post referred to the seasonal use of island property and the fact that they are taxed year round. That is true but the island property may have a lower assessed value because of that island location and that will be reflected in the real estate taxes.

If you have a condo boat slip, such as at Mountain View Yacht Club, you pay the same tax rate but cannot use any town services like the library or the town beach, even though you are a Gilford taxpayer.

It is a simple concept but so many have a difficult time understanding it. Thanks for trying once again to clarify this issue.

[MDoug]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

It is a simple concept but so many have a difficult time understanding it. Thanks for trying once again to clarify this issue.

Told the wife Tilton BB and WiFi said there are no island or view taxes.
"Oh, Goodie!" she exclaimed. Now we can afford a new refrigerator."

[tis]

Our assessments do actually show if you are paying extra for a view or for waterfront or for a sandy beach or more water frontage etc. I think when people got upset about this was when they first started SHOWING it people actually SAW that they were being taxed extra for these things, even though they were always being charged for them because it made their property more valuable as TTB said. And TTB is right, the assessment is the same per thousand for everybody in their town. It's just how many thousands do they think your property is worth that makes up your tax bill.

[SAMIAM]

Always wondered how island residents can pay their taxes without choking.
Being seasonal,they are not using the schools.......have no city sewer,water,streetlights,access to police and fire services.
Why not get together and try to press for legislation for a special tax rate for residents without any services?

[WakeboardMom]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Always wondered how island residents can pay their taxes without choking.
Being seasonal,they are not using the schools.......have no city sewer,water,streetlights,access to police and fire services.
Why not get together and try to press for legislation for a special tax rate for residents without any services?

Moultonborough has one of the best school systems in the state. I pay plenty of taxes to M'borough and have never used the school system. Your plan would open the can of worms that everyone has some reason they should be an exception.

[MDoug]

Originally Posted by WakeboardMom

Moultonborough has one of the best school systems in the state. I pay plenty of taxes to M'borough and have never used the school system. Your plan would open the can of worms that everyone has some reason they should be an exception.

I am sure the British thought the same thing when we protested the stamp act a while back!

The exception proves the rule.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Always wondered how island residents can pay their taxes without choking.
Being seasonal,they are not using the schools.......have no city sewer,water,streetlights,access to police and fire services.
Why not get together and try to press for legislation for a special tax rate for residents without any services?

As TiltonBB said island appraisals are lower than waterfront mainland so while our tax rate is the same we do pay less because of the lower appraisal. I do wish it was lower however but who doesn't!

Dan

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by tis

Our assessments do actually show if you are paying extra for a view or for waterfront or for a sandy beach or more water frontage etc. I think when people got upset about this was when they first started SHOWING it people actually SAW that they were being taxed extra for these things, even though they were always being charged for them because it made their property more valuable as TTB said. And TTB is right, the assessment is the same per thousand for everybody in their town. It's just how many thousands do they think your property is worth that makes up your tax bill.

Many things are itemized on your assessment such as the value placed on the land, buildings, garage, out buildings (such as a tool shed) docks, waterfront, breakwater, seawall, and yes, even the view. The total value of all of these things is multiplied by the tax rate in your community and that is how your tax bill is computed.

I think in the past people have thought there is a "View Tax" like it is a separate tax that you pay. If you are going to break it down like that then guess the same person would say that there is a dock tax, a tool shed tax, a garage tax, a driveway tax, Etc.

[MDoug]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Many things are itemized on your assessment such as the value placed on the land, buildings, garage, out buildings (such as a tool shed) docks, waterfront, breakwater, seawall, and yes, even the view. The total value of all of these things is multiplied by the tax rate in your community and that is how your tax bill is computed.

I think in the past people have thought there is a "View Tax" like it is a separate tax that you pay. If you are going to break it down like that then guess the same person would say that there is a dock tax, a tool shed tax, a garage tax, a driveway tax, Etc.

Back to English 101 and logical fallacies, isn't that reductio ad absurdum?

[MDoug]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

It is a simple concept but so many have a difficult time understanding it. Thanks for trying once again to clarify this issue.

As Oscar Wilde penned, "The truth is rarely pure and never simple."

[phoenix]

I live in an area where most houses have an acre. Until a couple of years ago we all had the same assessment for the land portion . Starting a couple of years ago my land assessment went up higher than any neighbors since with my acre I have a little more waterfront. In this case I really doubt my value is higher from a sales point of view but they think it is and when I asked they said more waterfront higher value

[wifi]

The value of a property to me (in my very limited sensibility, as claimed by certain posters) is the value that it sold for. So, if you bought a property for $100K, that is the value you should be taxed on the first year, then every year after the cost of living is added on. There are/were states that did that. Which they are, I leave to your own personal googling ability, so as not to start more nit picking controversies. Assessors just guess and base it on some arbitrary/argued formulas that aren't fair.

My neighbors house is on the market for an obscene value. If it sells, my taxes will go up, why? I don't even live on an island !

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by wifi

The value of a property to me (in my very limited sensibility, as claimed by certain posters) is the value that it sold for. So, if you bought a property for $100K, that is the value you should be taxed on the first year, then every year after the cost of living is added on. There are/were states that did that. Which they are, I leave to your own personal googling ability, so as not to start more nit picking controversies. Assessors just guess and base it on some arbitrary/argued formulas that aren't fair.

My neighbors house is on the market for an obscene value. If it sells, my taxes will go up, why? I don't even live on an island !

Wifi: If it sells that is the "market Value" and it is the best and only fair way to determine property taxes. Be thankful you have a nice property that has appreciated over time. I'm pretty sure that if your neighbor's house sells and you subsequently decide to move you will cite his property sale when setting your "obscene" asking price.

[jazzman]

In the end your assessment is supposed to be tied to the real market value of your property. A house on the water or with a view of the water will usually have a higher market value.... A house with a breakwater will have more value than a house without one.

I bought my house in Alton after it sat on the market for 2 years for under the appraised value. I called the tax office and they adjusted the tax value to something close to what I paid.

[Leoskeys]

Hello,
I already have a home on the lake, but I'm trying to help a friend who is considering buying an island home. Anyone know if the mortgage process is different? And if he wanted one loan to cover buying home, boat, and upgrading home, can that be done with one loan versus two or three different loans?
For an "easy math" instance, home price of $300k, $50k for boat, and $50k for improvements. Do you think he can get one mortgage for $400k?

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Leoskeys

Hello,
I already have a home on the lake, but I'm trying to help a friend who is considering buying an island home. Anyone know if the mortgage process is different? And if he wanted one loan to cover buying home, boat, and upgrading home, can that be done with one loan versus two or three different loans?
For an "easy math" instance, home price of $300k, $50k for boat, and $50k for improvements. Do you think he can get one mortgage for $400k?

Getting a mortgage on island property is not different, the process is all the same, HOWEVER....

Save yourself some trouble and advise your friend to discuss his mortgage with a local bank and don't try to go after a loan with a broker or big bank who are not adequately familiar with underwriting a seasonal island property. I ran into this with my mortgage broker, the deal eventually got done but not before dealing with some unnecessary heartache finding out a week from closing they would not close on the loan until they had a buyer for the mortgage all lined up and they did not typically service these kinds of loans. I was furious since had I known that AHEAD of time I never would have engaged them in the first place. That could very well have spelled disaster on the deal since the seller could have easily walked away instead of giving us an extension to get the loan done.

Had I known better I would have gone to Meredith Village Savings Bank, they are great to deal with and get the whole island property thing.

[HellRaZoR004]

I agree with MAXUM, give Pam Noble @ MVSB a call or email.

pnoble@mvsb.com
direct: 603.279.9291

[winni83]

Ditto for MVSB and Pam Noble. None of the "how far is the nearest fire hydrant" and similar questions. The Bank gets the reality of Winni real estate.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Leoskeys

Hello,
I already have a home on the lake, but I'm trying to help a friend who is considering buying an island home. Anyone know if the mortgage process is different? And if he wanted one loan to cover buying home, boat, and upgrading home, can that be done with one loan versus two or three different loans?
For an "easy math" instance, home price of $300k, $50k for boat, and $50k for improvements. Do you think he can get one mortgage for $400k?

Trying to tie your boat loan into your mortgage will not be possible, not to mention why spread out your boat payment over 30 years? It is possible to wrap in improvements as long as you have enough percentage of the total combined purchase to put down, and provided it appraises ok in completed state. Island appraisals can be tricky.

If there is sufficient equity position, he could put it on a HELOC but doing the simple math it doesn't sound like that will work unless they are putting a lot down. Assume a $350k all in on the house, you will need 20-25% down plus closing costs. That leaves you are $280k mortgaged with 20% down, or $70k+ out of pocket. In order to have enough equity on top of that to buy a boat on a heloc you would end up having to have a much larger equity stake in the house, or more cash outlay up front.

In short, buy the boat separately. It wont work otherwise. Also, make sure they have plenty of cash to start down this path, you are not going to get a island mortgage with 3% down and PMI... They will want 20-25%.

I will mirror the other comments made, don't waste your time with a big lender. Go to Laconia Savings, MVSB, or even Newburyport 5 Cent.

[Leoskeys]

Thanks for the comments. I too used MVSB when I bought my home on the lake.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Trying to tie your boat loan into your mortgage will not be possible, not to mention why spread out your boat payment over 30 years? It is possible to wrap in improvements as long as you have enough percentage of the total combined purchase to put down, and provided it appraises ok in completed state. Island appraisals can be tricky.

If there is sufficient equity position, he could put it on a HELOC but doing the simple math it doesn't sound like that will work unless they are putting a lot down. Assume a $350k all in on the house, you will need 20-25% down plus closing costs. That leaves you are $280k mortgaged with 20% down, or $70k+ out of pocket. In order to have enough equity on top of that to buy a boat on a heloc you would end up having to have a much larger equity stake in the house, or more cash outlay up front.

In short, buy the boat separately. It wont work otherwise. Also, make sure they have plenty of cash to start down this path, you are not going to get a island mortgage with 3% down and PMI... They will want 20-25%.

I will mirror the other comments made, don't waste your time with a big lender. Go to Laconia Savings, MVSB, or even Newburyport 5 Cent.

Good point on the equity piece, 20% down is the bare minimum for a second home as a general rule, they can get even more needy if it's seasonal or if the value of the house is out of the value percentage skew versus the value of the land. In other words if the value of the building is to little of the overall land and building package price that can set off red flags.

If it were me I would worry about securing the property first and worry about buying a boat and improvements later. In fact your friend may find out quickly that spending big bucks on an island boat isn't necessarily a good idea. Whatever boat he/she gets will inevitably be used not just for pleasure but also as a freight/trash hauler. Not necessarily something you'd want to do with a 50K boat. Plus having two boats is really ideal, when one breaks you have an alternative way off the island.

[Leoskeys]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Good point on the equity piece, 20% down is the bare minimum for a second home as a general rule, they can get even more needy if it's seasonal or if the value of the house is out of the value percentage skew versus the value of the land. In other words if the value of the building is to little of the overall land and building package price that can set off red flags.

If it were me I would worry about securing the property first and worry about buying a boat and improvements later. In fact your friend may find out quickly that spending big bucks on an island boat isn't necessarily a good idea. Whatever boat he/she gets will inevitably be used not just for pleasure but also as a freight/trash hauler. Not necessarily something you'd want to do with a 50K boat. Plus having two boats is really ideal, when one breaks you have an alternative way off the island.

Thanks for the feedback. Especially about the boats. Would perhaps a used 15 foot Boston whaler and a 22-24 pontoon be a good combo? I know a lot is personally preference...

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Leoskeys

Thanks for the feedback. Especially about the boats. Would perhaps a used 15 foot Boston whaler and a 22-24 pontoon be a good combo? I know a lot is personally preference...

It all depends on where they are looking, but in many places on the lake that would be a decent combination. Do they have a particular island in mind?

If they were broad side of Rattlesnake that may not be the best options, but on Cow it would be good for example. Another part of it pertains to where they are calling "home port" on the mainland. If they were launching from Gilford, but boating across to Cow they may want something a bit more suited to rough water. Again, just using Cow as an example.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by codeman671

It all depends on where they are looking, but in many places on the lake that would be a decent combination. Do they have a particular island in mind?

If they were broad side of Rattlesnake that may not be the best options, but on Cow it would be good for example. Another part of it pertains to where they are calling "home port" on the mainland. If they were launching from Gilford, but boating across to Cow they may want something a bit more suited to rough water. Again, just using Cow as an example.

Yes definitely agree on this one. Having a pontoon gives you a nice platform to haul big bulky items.... small boat really comes down to where you are and how much you plan to use it. I keep my big boat on the mooring in front of my place all season, use the little one to commute. Can't go wrong with a Whaler, those are great but can be pricey for what they are.

The broads side of Rattlesnake is sort of an exception, most other islands are not subject to the same type of conditions on a rough day.

[Pricestavern]

Another aspect that needs to be considered when buying a boat is the size of the dock at the cabin. That can be a limiting factor, especially if extending the dock is not an option.

[Winnisquamer]

Originally Posted by Pricestavern

Another aspect that needs to be considered when buying a boat is the size of the dock at the cabin. That can be a limiting factor, especially if extending the dock is not an option.

Also in my opinion whats more important then the actual length or size of the dock is the water depth at the dock. I personally have had a very long dock since back when Cigarette boats frequented Winnisquam. With out that long length I would not be able to pull my inboard in or out any time of the year, even at the end of the season I have to watch my depth or of course chew up a prop.

I am sure you know different boats need different depths. Keep an eye on what you buy or atleast keep it in mind.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Leoskeys

Thanks for the feedback. Especially about the boats. Would perhaps a used 15 foot Boston whaler and a 22-24 pontoon be a good combo? I know a lot is personally preference...

One other piece of advice, speaking from experience. If your friend is serious about purchasing property the best advice to give them is to employ the help of an experienced and knowledgeable real estate agent that is not just familiar with island property, but specializes in it. While it's helpful to seek out advice from a forum like this especially from those of us that are islanders, it's always good to have somebody that can help answer some of these questions and guide your friend through the process. It's not just about finding a piece of property but finding answers to who and where to go for financing, insurance, what each island has to offer or not, dealing with questions of main land logistics etc...

I highly recommend your friend contact Nancy and Doug Deporter of Keller Williams. Nancy was my agent when I bought my place and provided me with invaluable advice. They both are awesome to work with AND they are both islanders themselves. Visit her website at http://www.nancydeporter.com, or better yet have them give her a call. Several of us on this forum have employed their services and been very pleased as a result. They really are the best out there.

[KPW]

Originally Posted by Leoskeys

Thanks for the feedback. Especially about the boats. Would perhaps a used 15 foot Boston whaler and a 22-24 pontoon be a good combo? I know a lot is personally preference...

I would go with a min 17 or 18 ft on the whaler.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by KPW

I would go with a min 17 or 18 ft on the whaler.

I had a 16 dauntless that worked great. I would cross from Mark to Glendale in all conditions. It was perfect for running over to grab someone or store runs and was small enough that I never had a problem finding a place to park even when the docks were busy. Much easier than taking a 25' pontoon. I had a few Rage 14 and 15's as well but they were rather finicky with the OMC jet drive engines.

I did LOVE my 20 Dauntless with the 200 Verado though.

Again, this really all depends on where the property is located.

[Joebon]

So, your friend wants to buy a second home with no money down, improve the home and buy a boat? Isn't America great.


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[TiltonBB]

Most all fixed rate loans are sold in the secondary market and there are guidelines for them to be accepted. Even when they are not sold and instead held by a local bank, the local bank generally uses the same underwriting guidelines to process the loan. That way if the bank ever wishes to transfer servicing the new lienholder knows it meets appropriate criteria.

The value that will be used by the lender is the lesser of the appraised value or the selling price.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by Joebon

So, your friend wants to buy a second home with no money down, improve the home and buy a boat? Isn't America great.


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The type of financing this person is looking for would have been tough to get even during the boom days of 2004-2007.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Joebon

So, your friend wants to buy a second home with no money down, improve the home and buy a boat? Isn't America great.


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Did I miss something? Where does it say "no money down"?

I also used MVSB, and worked with Lori Borin. Great people.

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[Joebon]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Did I miss something? Where does it say "no money down"?

I also used MVSB, and worked with Lori Borin. Great people.

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It says purchase price $300, $50 for upgrades and $50 for a boat and a mortgage of $400. Math never lies.



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[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Did I miss something? Where does it say "no money down"?

I also used MVSB, and worked with Lori Borin. Great people.

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Yes you did. Basic math: Home price $300,000 + boat of $50,000 and $50,000 for improvements. mortgage loan he is seeking is $400,000. Basically, the person is asking for a loan well in excess of the $300,000 home purchase price.

[thinkxingu]

"For an easy math instance" implies fake numbers. We have no idea what the OP's friend is dealing with for numbers.

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[Pricestavern]

Why so literal? <in the voice of the Joker>

The post asked about loan strategies; one vs multiple. The numbers supplied were used as an illustration.

[Leoskeys]

Wow, too literal is right! I gave ballpark numbers for he purpose of the question . They would put AT LEAST 20% down. But with how low rates are, they will put as little down as allowed without having to deal with PMI.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by Leoskeys

Wow, too literal is right! I gave ballpark numbers for he purpose of the question . They would put AT LEAST 20% down. But with how low rates are, they will put as little down as allowed without having to deal with PMI.

A mortgage is "secured" by the appraised value of the property. As a rule of thumb you can get a mortgage for up to 90% of the property value without a lot of hassle, and assuming you have good credit.

For your numbers, you're talking a $300K mortgage and another 33% ($100K) in extras, that is very unlikely to happen.

Also, while mortgage rates may be relatively low right now, the smart money is still with putting as much of a downpayment as possible without totally depleting savings/emergency funds. From your posts it kinda sounds like your friend may be stretching things a little thin. I'd buy the property with a solid downpayment and get a cheaper boat to start. There are plenty of perfectly good boats to be had in the $15K range.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

A mortgage is "secured" by the appraised value of the property. As a rule of thumb you can get a mortgage for up to 90% of the property value without a lot of hassle, and assuming you have good credit.

For your numbers, you're talking a $300K mortgage and another 33% ($100K) in extras, that is very unlikely to happen.

Also, while mortgage rates may be relatively low right now, the smart money is still with putting as much of a downpayment as possible without totally depleting savings/emergency funds. From your posts it kinda sounds like your friend may be stretching things a little thin. I'd buy the property with a solid downpayment and get a cheaper boat to start. There are plenty of perfectly good boats to be had in the $15K range.

Islands are a bit different. The banks usually require 20-25% down as these are considered seasonal, second homes. They are also held in house (portfolio loan) instead of brokered.