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08-09-2010, 05:51 PM | #1 |
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No Wake at the Barbers Pole...???
I heard today that there is now a no wake zone though the Barber's Pole... What's up with that -How did that get passed so fast??? It seemed just last month there was light discussion now it's official???... Can anyone confirm?? I hope this is just a rumor that I am not spreading
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08-10-2010, 04:01 AM | #2 |
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Another thread has the info
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ad.php?t=10413
Please see this thread, you will have to pick through some unrelated shrapnel but the info is there. It was approved and it is pretty large. |
08-10-2010, 06:26 AM | #3 |
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It was discussed at length in this thread:
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ad.php?t=10413
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08-10-2010, 08:22 AM | #4 |
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What a SAD state of affairs this Lake has turned into. Just a shame!! I see it going down and getting worse every single year, one way or the other. It is truely a shame what the people are doing to this, Once upon a time Great lake! Trying to make it a privatized personal pond is not the way to go.
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08-10-2010, 09:24 AM | #5 | |
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Appeal?
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says the following about hearings: "the results are subject to appeal" So if anyone is inclined I guess an appeal is allowed the way I read it. |
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08-10-2010, 10:11 AM | #6 | |
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Makes very little difference to me, I don't venture up that way very often and when I do, I often go though the Hole in Wall for fun or around the other side of Little Bear to avoid traffic, but I think it's sad that it's come to this. Wonder how long it'll take milfoil to get a stronghold in the shallow parts of the NWZ once the wakes stop? I'm pretty sure milfoil does not tolerate boat wakes very well. |
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08-10-2010, 09:43 AM | #7 | |
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I still plan to enjoy my weekends on Winnipesaukee and my weeks on this Forum!!!! |
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08-17-2010, 08:51 AM | #8 | |
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Went for a sail out of Newburyport a few weeks ago and as we were heading out of the narrow inlet The Harbor master passed us 30' to starboard going 25mph and Tow Boat US was 30' off port going 25MPH, At the same time.... We all waved to each other and had a good sail.... |
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08-20-2010, 11:04 AM | #9 | |
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08-10-2010, 08:27 AM | #10 |
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Is the Barber Pole even there anymore? I went by where I thought it was, and didn't see it...
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08-10-2010, 09:20 AM | #11 |
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Yesterday
Went through the Barber Pole area. No signs yet. I wonder if you have to wait til they post the signs or there is going to be a sneak attack!
Maybe Skip can clarify this situation as well as what infractions appear on our driver's record. I had an infraction in NC last fall. In NC was unaware I was in a right turn only lane and did not turn right. The infraction appeared on my driver's record. I found out last spring when I got pulled over in Belmont NH because I had a rear tail light out. Instead of a defective tag, the officer fined me $62. The town must be really hurting!
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08-10-2010, 10:29 AM | #12 | |
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08-16-2010, 03:15 PM | #13 |
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Whats the rush
Dont understand why anyone would complain about this.. It gets a little tight in there at times.. This lake needs more no wake areas ..
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08-17-2010, 06:43 AM | #14 |
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I live right around the corner from the barbers pole. My family also has a place on the mainland next to the pole. If people followed the current rules (150') there would be no need for the no wake zone. Its amazing to me that people keep wanting more and more rules.
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08-17-2010, 11:47 AM | #15 |
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I don't understand the complaints either. Some of the best times on my boat are at no wake speeds....sight seeing, conversing, etc. I can't understand the mentality where people feel a boat has only 2 speeds...stop and full throttle. And so many people go past the 2 little islands just 150' from shore...I felt sorry for the people on shore.
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08-18-2010, 06:12 AM | #16 | |
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I also don't see this as a speed issue. The vast majority of boaters can usually be found in the 25 mph to 35 mph range on any given day. That's usually my range as well. It's a fairly gentle speed range, and most boats can calmly, and safely, sightsee and boat in that range. People that cannot cruise safely at those speeds have no business being in a boat IMHO. If you look at a previous post, perhaps in the other thread, you'll see what happened when a MP was present in the area. Just as on the roadways, people seem to immediately recall the laws and common courtesy when a LEO is around watching. This indicates to me that the problems in areas like these are caused by attitude, lack of common courtesy, and an arrogance that belies the freedom of the waterways. Areas where people complain about cars running lights and/or stop signs, are usually patrolled more often, LEO's on the lookout for offenders. They step up enforcement in trouble spots, they don't make the entire area a 25 mph school zone. Common sense. |
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08-18-2010, 07:53 AM | #17 |
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I have read many posts on this issue. I also have experienced some tight situations in the pole.
From what I have gathered and by those living there have posted (who I think have the best perspective on the matter is) 1. Speed has nothing to do with the wakes. We all know if you are on plain whether at 30 mph or 45 mph your wake is smaller then when you are going 20(ish) and transitioning between plowing and plaining speed. 2. the 150 foot safe passage rule needs to be enforced in the tighter areas. The no wake zone in this instance is placing a restricting year round on the area when it is rarely an issue even on the weekends. 3. Even property owners who are directly effected are mixed in whether this is needed or not. But from what I have read the only issue is large wakes. Not speed, not fear, not noise ONLY wakes... Since this is the case it is difficult to say a No wake will solve everyone's issue. As proven time and time again if a boat goes through the pole on plain there is little to no issue with a wake. However if boats are forced to come on and off plain those land owners immediately bordering where boats will always be slowing down and speeding up could be even more effected then the current situation. I think this is a very tough issue and I personally have mixed feelings on this for I have seen it from both sides. But lets keep into context exactly what that problem is Large wakes nothing more.
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08-18-2010, 05:14 PM | #18 | |
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First idea, as previously mentioned, make this area a part time NWZ during prime summer months. Second idea, like some roads and bridges that have weight restrictions, maybe consider the same for that area, where large boats are prohibited from passing through. BTW I'm not trying to stir the pot here by the mention of "large" boats. How to quantify large, well that is sure to create quite a discussion. Of the two I like the first, both I think would be a nightmare to enforce. Dunno - no good answer as of yet, but throwing ideas around is how problems get solved in unique ways. I'd like to think some sort of reasonable solution could be devised, a full time NWZ in that area just seems really overkill and it's creation may have adverse negative affects if instituted as is. |
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08-18-2010, 09:49 AM | #19 | |
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There are other times when we just want to get to our destination and would like to be on plane (and creating little wake). That is going to be a long NWZ and will likely cause others to be added or extended. |
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08-18-2010, 10:14 AM | #20 |
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where will the boats go next
As mentioned above this very long NWZ will force more and more boats around the NWZ and most likely will add more traffic between Little bear and Long Island which is, I believe a much tighter spot than the Barber's pole area.
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08-18-2010, 11:20 AM | #21 | |
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Yes, other NWZ's may be added or extended. People who might use these tight areas but do not reside there will complain loudly but it's likely that most residents who are most affected will give it a thumbs up. I suspect this definitely is the case with those 2 little islands(Little Birch and Squirrell) where I noticed boats, rafts, docks, and swimmers all sharing this tight channel. |
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08-18-2010, 05:35 PM | #22 | |
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Can we just agree that the safe passage rule needs to be enforced and that wakes are an issue?
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08-18-2010, 06:20 PM | #23 | |
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Saturday 12noon-4:00pm Sunday 12noon-2:00pm give or take an hour here and there. So we need a law for this? 6+/- hours a weekend for 8-10 weeks? I'm heavily leaning towards no. Again I have said that I am torn as my boat does take a beating during these hours. With that said I still think a law that punishes all the boaters headed south from the Northeast corner of the lake should not be punished for that. The biggest problem stems from the random joker in the 40 footer plowing along. I'll try and catch a video and post it one of these days. |
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08-19-2010, 08:58 AM | #24 | |
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08-19-2010, 10:14 AM | #25 | |
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After reading the last thread and this one, especially from first hand accounts of those who live in the pole, their contention with the issue of perhaps needing a NWZ is "ONLY" wakes. At no point did Safety AND Noise come up other then by you. So again lets take a step back and address the specific question of why this has been requested by land owners that petitioned for the NWZ in the first place. From all the accounts I have read it had nothing to do with "screaming boats at or further away then the safe passage law dictates". The use again of the verbage "screaming and noise" is an exaggeration to create an illusion of something that has not been discussed nor has been said by anyone who actually lives there. So lets keep the subtle context of these at bay. Also at no point have I read: "We need this NWZ because my docks and boat are taking a beating from a boat on plain abiding by the laws that are in place to keep boats a safe distance away which has been derived by the dept. of safety and marine patrol." Hazelnut has specifically mentioned Large Cruisers who are not paying attention to their sizable wakes at very limited times only in the summer. Now, I am not sure if Al Capone is on those boats but maybe we can ask to keep an eye out for him as well in the future when enforcing current laws. I personally think we need more data and perhaps a study as to where the NWZ would start and stop, the distance from that point to the adjacent shore and then figure out the speed in which the wake will dimish in that zone. Again we especially don't want to make the problem worse for a small set of land owners at the immediate spot where boats are forced to come on and off plain just so other land owners can experience no wakes during these limited time frames in the summer.
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08-19-2010, 11:33 AM | #26 | ||
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08-19-2010, 02:07 PM | #27 |
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Thank you VTsteve... Good Call
I think keeping the discussion on topic with the specific conversation from the posters at hand is very important. This is a very important issue that needs relevant facts and data to prove its relevance and how it can be instituted or not in the most effective manner. Now I am a straight shooter and personally have not traveled to the islands and knocked door to door asking opinions, however I have counted three residents from the area in these discussions and all have explained in detail what they see the issue to be. So from my hundreds of times if not thousands of times passing through the pole, their posts, and the hours spent personally sitting on the dock watching the boats go by there, I can say with great certainty that this location is in no way unsafer or noisier then anywhere else on the lake that is a channel or bay of its size. There will always be some risk inherent in a waterway used by the public. There are laws, restrictions, and edcucation that has helped reduce these inherent risks. Without the supporting data and study that I suggested earlier I can not say one way or the other whether this is needed. IF we start adding NWZ's to simply fix what some people "feel" is an issue without hard facts then it is just a matter of time before more and more and more un-needed NWZ's are petitioned for. I for one would much rather see the state fund the MP in a manner as such so that they have the resources to enforce the many laws they are charged with already. We can't keep piling more on whether it be more ordenances or NWZ's unless they are needed and asked for by the Marine Patrol. When was the last time the marine patrol directly asked for a restriction to be placed? I can not think of one in recent memory. But if they were to stand up and say, this is an area that we would like to see a NWZ due to reasons A,B,C from XYZ study then please point me in the way of the petition to sign. Ok I'm jumping off my soap box.. Time for a Mai Tai on the dock.. (boy I wish I was there right now, 24 hours and counting! but only there for 12 hours then back home YUCK! ) In Response to TB's attempt on twisting the facts yet again: HELLO MCFLY!!! I doubled it testing the boat in Long Island Sound!!!! Seriously. Please refer me to the RSA in the NH Statues the prohibits me from using my boat at 90 mph in NEW YORK on THE OCEAN?????
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08-19-2010, 03:38 PM | #28 |
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Thanks SOTD, this info could be very usefull for anyone who is considering an appeal.
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08-19-2010, 04:29 PM | #29 |
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I live right outside the barbers pole, I will agree that big boat wakes suck. The biggest problem is the people who are going headway speed in the middle of the channel. They make it so there is no way around but to slow down and slowly pass them, causing a big wake.
I for one always go through the hole in the wall, I usually just idle down there, waiting for the boat to warm up. One thing I can tell you because I live there is there is definitely no noise problem. I know allot of people on cow island and I have never heard any body ever complain about noise. |
08-19-2010, 05:05 PM | #30 |
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SOTD,
In this case I am sorry but you are wrong. I have a house here I have had a house here for almost 10 years. I have ten years of experience with this exact location that is in question. My neighbors and I all agree what the problem is. The people you speak of on Squirrel Island do not spend any time there. I don't know who you spoke to but that house is rented almost 99.9% of the summer. What we are talking about is basically my back yard. So any comment you have made so far is hearsay and conjecture. If I did not own a house at this location we could debate this subject but considering that you do not own a house here and your viewpoint is based on a few observations and second hand commentary I am going to respectfully disagree with your assumptions. Last weekend I began videotaping the location and I will post a series of videos for you all to weigh in on. I'm hoping to catch a big Cruiser going by at some point, it is inevitable. The big problem is and has been for the past almost 10 years, big wakes. Boats do not "scream by (the area)" Quite the contrary many boats do a good job and have done a good job for several years, maintaining safe speeds through the area. The loudest boat I heard this week, it made me look out the window it was so loud, was an antique CrissCraft. I smiled and laughed and wondered what some on the forum would have said to me if they were standing inside my house with me when it went by. |
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08-19-2010, 05:38 PM | #31 |
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Not in my back yard
Too many people want to transform the area of the lake they live on into something that it will never be.
Boats go by your house and leave a wake? Get over it! It's a boat, that's what they do. Boat go by your house and you can hear it? Get over it! The NH philosophy "Live free or die" is being ignored and eroded with all these little rules. They take away from the pleasure and enjoyment that many people have had for years. My house looks out to open water for several miles. Guess what? When a large boat or a small boat plowing along goes by two miles away the wake splashes over a two foot wall at the water and onto my front lawn. Should I go ask the state to make the area 3 miles in front of my house into a "No Wake" zone? Should I ask the state to close down the two marinas around the corner that have over 300 boats, many of which leave large wakes as they pass by? How many people that bought their houses knew what the situation was in front of their house when they bought it and are now trying to change it? Buy some mooring whips, get a mooring, that is what many people on my street have done. The last thing we need is more government regulation. Stop trying to change the lake. There was a reason why you bought on Winnipesaukee or moved here, isn't that reason still good enough? |
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08-20-2010, 04:43 AM | #32 | |||
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Chiming in here...Once...
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BTW: We moved here to be close to Wolfeboro's airport! Quote:
About 90% of the monohulls* and catamarans* in my area have no engines—and that's not including several windsurfers. *Boaters who actually put the sails up to go boating. Of Lake Winnipesaukee, how often have we heard: Quote:
How many times do we hear of "...no more government regulations...", when the same folks were calling for "Boater Certification"? Of this lake's captains, 50% "are above average". |
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08-20-2010, 08:59 AM | #33 | |
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And last weekend the loudest boat I heard was not a CrissCraft (sic). |
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08-19-2010, 06:37 PM | #34 | |
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Either way, I've never heard anyone in a channel or bay want a NWZ. It simply ruins the atmosphere. The same reasoning for this NWZ could apply to Meredith Neck, and a variety of places. I've fought in the past to make sailboats take down their sails and be under power in headway only areas, and I'd do it again. |
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08-20-2010, 09:42 AM | #35 | |
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08-19-2010, 12:01 PM | #36 | |
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08-19-2010, 11:20 AM | #37 |
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Extremes indeed.
Thanks once again OCD, for keeping this thread on topic I would politely suggest, on behalf of both this forum, and Don himself, if people that are not specifically interested in following this issue, refrain from posting here. It's a very important issue on the lake, and one that could have far-reaching impacts. Thank you in advance for your cooperation. |
08-18-2010, 05:42 PM | #38 |
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Boats running on the pad through this area leave little to no wake. I am concerned that this proposed no wake area will actually cause more damage. As we all know many boaters do not know what no wake speed is. I can see this area quite possibly becoming a "plow fest" as those who do not understand what no wake really is plow through the area. As the old saying goes "be careful what you wish for."
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08-18-2010, 06:07 PM | #39 | |
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08-18-2010, 11:01 AM | #40 | |
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08-18-2010, 06:08 PM | #41 | |
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No mushing !
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08-18-2010, 07:01 PM | #42 |
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I'm pretty sure SOTD knows very well what wake sizes are produced at what speeds. It's pretty clear from property owners on the lake what the issues may or may not be as well. I honestly don't know anyone who's best boating moments are at no wake speed, except fishermen trolling. I spend a great deal of time on the hook, but that's different.
Everyone should thank the people that are having rational discourse on this subject. And for the record, like many, I haven't formed a full opinion on this particular NWZ myself. |
08-18-2010, 09:23 PM | #43 |
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I travel through Barber Pole every so often and hardly ever come upon someone who observes the 150' rule on weekends. People just bomb through on plane at under 150'. It really annoys me because I slow down. Now I understand that it's tough to get a big tub back to speed but if that's what you got that's how it goes. I may be the only person who doesn't mind slowing down because I enjoy the sensation of acceleration. It's particularly enjoyable in my boat because it's a little under propped so it has great pickup.
End of ramble... Another poster had the thought of floating some ideas. What about a decoy boat? I believe the MP has some old boats. If they stick one in a high violation area like that it could deter the weekend warriors. Might work, and wouldn't cost much. Also they could post some very clear signs leading into the area that it is being heavily monitored. I wouldn't be unhappy if SBONH got involved with 150 foot rule reminder signs at ramps, bridges, gas docks and the like. Maybe, maybe, maybe. I just wish I had more weekdays to use my boat, I don't see too many problems then. Pete
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08-10-2010, 10:26 AM | #44 |
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I didn't go by this past weekend, but it wasn't there the past few weeks. I think it was last year that it was taken down for painting - it shouldn't need to be prettied up again so soon.
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08-17-2010, 08:58 AM | #45 |
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Its all these new LOW VoC paints that we are required to use in NH. They just don't last as long.
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10-01-2010, 10:56 AM | #46 |
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Hearing tonight
Tuftonboro is having a meeting tonight at 7:00 pm regarding the Barber pole nwz. Not sure where on the agenda it will fall.
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10-01-2010, 01:56 PM | #47 |
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Is this different than the hearing in Tuftonboro that was conducted by the Department of Safety earlier today? If so, I'd be interested in knowing what jurisdiction the Town has over this matter?
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10-01-2010, 01:58 PM | #48 |
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Barber Pole NWZ hearing was held this morning at 10:00 AM at Tuftonboro Meeting Hall. Anyone out there who attended care to share their thoughts?
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10-01-2010, 06:26 PM | #49 |
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The hearing was held today. The hearing was limited to the 11 individuals that submitted requests for re-hearing. The state will now decide whether or not to allow a full re-hearing, which will make the original hearing null and void and essentially set the process back to square one. If the state decides a re-hearing is necessary we will be notified and we will pass along the information to all. If th state decides a re-hearing is not warranted then the process continues to the state level through the house, senate, etc.
The hearing was fairly well attended. |
10-01-2010, 10:03 PM | #50 |
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I thought it was included in the regular town agenda. My mistake.
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10-17-2010, 10:04 AM | #51 | |
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Has the Lake Changed?
1) I'd "audited" a similar NWZ hearing—in the same building—about ten years ago: No one "in opposition" to the NWZ had appeared at the previous hearing. (Attended by about 30 people). In spite of that turnout, it failed then, but something equivalent is in place near Tuftonboro Neck "Narrows"—today.
2) At the earlier hearing at the same location, I'd noticed no particular odor—this hearing was different. Can anyone account for that odor? It wasn't "the usual suspect" from Wolfeboro—who's expected to do a rumored eight years for transporting the stuff. 3) At dinner last evening, I encountered a friendly face—a diner from Massachusetts—with whom I've spoken at area restaurants. I'd seen her at the hearing, but didn't have an opportunity to re-introduce myself there. After the hearing, she was speaking with an elderly gentleman—could that have been Hal C. Lyon, the author of local Bass-fishing lore? This is turning into a much longer reply than I'd planned! 4) Anyway, it turns out this person lives at the northern reach of the Barber Pole NWZ, and their family is opposed to that NWZ—saying: Quote:
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10-18-2010, 01:58 PM | #52 |
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Motion to re-open
GRANTED!
"the Original Petition fails to provide the requisite number of signatures with supporting proof that the co petitioners are either residents or property owners pursuant to RSA 270:12,I. Based upon my response within section IV, (sub. 3), the Appellants Motion to Reopen pursuant to RSA 541:3 are granted." The original petitioners must provide proof that a minium number of the original 25 co-petitioners listed in the original document are residents or property owners in Tuftonboro by use of official town record. Since many petitioners are of the same family / property this will be impossible to do. Basically this will cancel the petition outright.
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10-18-2010, 10:46 PM | #53 | |
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Nice job SBONH
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To me it seemed that SBONH did not take sides on the issue but rather challenged the process. I find that to be a very important distinction and applaud them and their efforts to see that a small vocal minority could not push their agenda through the system without allowing ALL in the area the opportunity to provide their input on the proposed NWZ. This was NOT a Go Fast agenda but a DO IT the RIGHT WAY initiative. Regardless of the eventual outcome of the Barber Pole NWZ I admire the goal of SBONH. Responsible legislation makes noting but good (and proper) sense. Wonder how Turtle Boy, Sunset on the Dock, El Chase and their very few verbose and prolific posting cohorts will try to spin this success. Bravo SBONH and thank you. |
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10-19-2010, 07:46 PM | #54 |
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Bring our lake back
I think its great that someone is finally stepping up and putting all these old fogies back in their place. All these efforts to slow everyone down are just driving tourists away from New Hampshire. Speed used to be king on Winni, now it is suddenly a bad word? That channel is plenty wide enough for boats to pass each other full throttle. I am a bass fisherman and we need to go through there all the time. If we have to slow down, it costs us money. We are working with our rep to have the speed limit repealed. He will be filing a bill right after the election. Stay tuned. Safe Boaters or Unsafe boaters, I don't care. I just want our lake back the way it was a couple of years ago when you could do pretty much as you pleased without worrying about your speed. I agree with OCD, its time to put the throttle down.
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10-19-2010, 08:43 PM | #55 | |
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10-20-2010, 09:20 AM | #56 |
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10-20-2010, 10:07 AM | #57 |
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10-20-2010, 09:50 AM | #58 |
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No Surprise
Well now, isn’t that interesting; and to think that the illustrious and righteous El Chase told us on August 25, 2010 in post # 128 of this thread that:
“I hope this one last post can get through without editing. If it is, then I promise this will be the LAST time I ever try to opine on this site.” “If it does make it through, then I promise you I will never darken the door of this forum again.” I would not be surprised to see the argument raised that (a) our webmaster is wrong; (b) someone hijacked EL Chase’s IP address; (c) someone else in the El Chase household is using the IP address; or, perhaps (d) that El Chase has abandoned his fellow travelers. This is better than a soap opera. |
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10-20-2010, 09:46 PM | #59 |
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winni83's post was not an attempt to "stir the pot", but my reply to it was? Your hypocrisy is matched only by your intellectual dishonesty. I assume that your instant conversion from a "thunder boater" to a "safe boater" must have resulted from a near death experience, and was not driven by some long term plan to reverse the SL?. Come on.
Please spare me. I looked for "winni83" in the phone book, and can't find anyone by that name, so aren't you crossing the same line? In fact, I have apparently been the only one on this forum using his real name until now. Is OCD somebody's real name? Is Vitabean? You guys sound like the press after they found out Christine O'Donnell had "dabbled in witchcraft" when she was fifteen years old. Get real. This is not testimony before a grand jury. This is an internet forum. As I said, if you want me to stay away, stop taunting me by dropping my name out of the blue for no reason, like winni83 did. If you can't do that, then you get what you get and can't cry "foul" about it. Wah, wah, wah. |
10-21-2010, 07:11 AM | #60 |
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Funny, I thought this thread was about the NWZ at the Barbers Pole.
Great news that the motion to re-open was granted. No surprise that the usual trolls come out of hiding as soon as news they don't like comes out.
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11-02-2010, 12:17 PM | #61 |
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You must have a short memory. How fast can you go with a 10 HP Johnson on a 12 foot boat?
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11-04-2010, 02:39 PM | #62 |
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Safe Boaters of New Hampshire
“To promote safety through education and legislation that works” http://www.SBONH.ORG State orders hearing on the No Wake Zone at Lake Winnipesaukee’s “Barber Pole” reopened. Safe Boaters of NH pushes bill to ensure proper notification of future hearings. For Immediate Release: The New Hampshire Department of Safety has reversed its earlier decision establishing the largest no wake zone on Lake Winnipesaukee and has ordered the process reopened. The decision was made after a petition by residents of the area and Safe Boaters of New Hampshire questioned whether proper notification was given since most of the property owners in the area were unaware of the petition until after a ruling had been made, and whether the original petitioners met the legal requirements to file such a petition. The Department of Safety ruled that the legal requirement may not have been met and has ordered the people calling for a no wake zone at Lake Winnipesaukee’s “Barber Pole” to show proof of residency. The department also ruled that proper legal notice was given via publication in the only statewide newspaper in New Hampshire. Safe Boaters of New Hampshire believes that in the era of dwindling newspaper circulation and greater reliance on the internet and other forms of communication, the methods of legal notification accepted in the past are no longer adequate. Safe Boaters of New Hampshire has filed a bill that would address the notification process when a petition to change or restrict the use of New Hampshire’s public waterways is being considered. The bill requires the petitioners to notify the abutters of the area being targeted by certified mail and requires the Department of Safety to post the notification of the petition on the department’s official website at least two weeks prior to the hearing. Regardless of the outcome of the “Barber Pole” no wake zone issue Safe Boaters of New Hampshire firmly believes everyone affected should have an opportunity to know about the proposed changes prior to decisions being made.
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10-20-2010, 07:24 AM | #63 |
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Tough crowd.
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10-20-2010, 08:39 AM | #64 | |
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New to forum BearIslandMoose's first posts.
Come on now BearIslandMoose. We're not a "tough crowd" but a wise crowd. Wise to you and your kind of trolling and propaganda.
In your very first post to the forum you said Quote:
The forum isn't buying your bull moose. If you are not Turtle Boy, SOTD, ElChase or APS in moose clothing then I believe they put you up to this. I quoted you and bolded some of your outrageous comments. You attempt to cast a black shadow over a SBONH success. You seem to want to inflame and distract from them and their accomplishment. Your attitude is deplorable. This thread is not about speed but about the process of legislation. We are becoming keenly aware of the tactics of the pro speed limit group and some of their supporters. Those who are afraid of SBONH and wish to discredit them and their organization.
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10-20-2010, 10:19 AM | #65 | |||
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"Just wait"...
Quote:
Quote:
In the immortal words of Wednesday-Friday Addams, Quote:
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10-21-2010, 07:26 PM | #66 | |
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If you guys had named your group "Fast Boaters of New Hampshire", I'd still disagree with your agenda but would have nothing but respect for your honesty. I respect a good healthy disagreement...democracy in action. But naming yourselves "Safe Boaters", as if the people of NH are too stupid to not see through that, says everything about you and your collective honesty. I've never seen that name said without the speaker putting air quotes around the word "safe". It's like a crooked car salesman using the name "Honest John", or the biggest guy on the football team being named "Little Bill". Ya, that makes it true. And riding the coatskirts of the honorable Power Squadron as they did their inspections to gain false integrity, then introducing ITL-ready bills through some shill of a representative to try to build a false reputation, are the things that really deserve such outrage. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. Admit "Safe Boaters" one and only ultimate goal...to repeal the SL, and I will praise your integrity while I work against you. But play these dishonest games, and you have no excuse to call anything "over the line", or calling anyone else "dishonest". What could possibly be more "over the line" or "dishonest" than using the name "Safe Boaters" for this group of cowboys and scofflaws? Instead of directing your outrage at the phony who has embarrassed you with that moniker, you praise him...and you try to make a huge controversy out of something so trivial as a phony post under a phony name that makes a perfect point...on an internet forum. Your protest is so shallow as to be pathetic. I have to give you credit though Joe. Assuming your name is really Joe Kerr, at least you have the fortitude to use your name before you criticize others for not using theirs. Is Joe Kerr really your name? If not, I take that back. And who is this purveyor of wisdom from Vermont? Can I use some of those gems in my upcoming book on the Human Experience? Is that Leo Sandy in disguise? Give me a break. |
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10-21-2010, 07:31 PM | #67 |
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Not sure if this link www.bigbadboat.com is relevant to this thread. If the link works, it has an article about the Safe Boaters of New Hampshire, 'SBONH', that's titled "New Activist Group Seeks to Keep Lake WinniPesaukee Open for Performance Boaters" and it is dated September 23, 2010.
...thankyou very much!
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10-22-2010, 09:45 AM | #68 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
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10-20-2010, 01:08 PM | #69 | |
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And how is a post under a fake name any different than OCD using the embarrassing name "Safe Boaters" for your go-fast club? You guys are hypocrites. You put on a costume ("We are really only doing this to promote full disclosure of such petitions, it has nothing to do with any objection to being told to slow down. All we really care about is safety."), then challenge other people's righteousness? Give me a break. What a bunch of phonies. You guys were the petitioners and biggest proponents of Bourgeious' undeserved personal NWZ a few years back. Few of those fronting that petition were "local residents" then, and none of you seem concerned that your petition then got through without all this notification of the local residents. Is "Safe Boaters" going to try to have that petition repealed? Are they moving for a new hearing to set that one right? I didn't think so. "Safe Boaters" is obviously nothing more than a group of go-fast cowboys whose sole mission is to get the SL repealed. They are biding their time with these obvious distractions (boating inspections, silly ITL bills, washing Barrett's car), but we all know what they are all about. Put the throttle down...make some Thunder. Now stop recalling me and I'll stop posting, as promised. But every time you drop my name, whether expressly or through reference, I'll be back. You'll know its me because it will be a first time poster pointing out the idiocies of your agendas. |
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10-20-2010, 04:15 PM | #70 | |
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As far as the mission of some to repeal or amend the SL, I think most of our leaders in Concord are savvy enough to see what's really going on. A few fringe members of our legislature will be unable to change what most people on the lake have wanted for a very long time. The overwhelming support of the SL by the House, Senate, and letters and emails attests to this. I also hope that if a bill is put forth to exclude the Broads from the SL that there is an opposing bill put forth whereby the SL on the Broads would continue to be 45 MPH but on the rest of the lake it is substantially lower, say 35 MPH.JMO Last edited by sunset on the dock; 10-20-2010 at 08:01 PM. Reason: grammar |
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10-20-2010, 01:29 PM | #71 |
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Bear Who ????
I respectfully suggest to the Webmaster that the IP address of this person be permanently blocked from further posting. At least other people who agree with him have the courage and moral character to continue to post under their member names, and for that I respect them.
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10-20-2010, 02:18 PM | #72 |
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I disagree, let him post and let him use whatever name he wants, he really can't hide his agenda.
We have to be open to people that disagree with us, we are not a bunch of Joy Baher's are we? I Remember, when another poster kept changing his screen name, pretty soon no one took him seriously. |
10-20-2010, 02:52 PM | #73 |
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Bear Who ???
I certainly agree that this forum should generally be open to all and that debate is healthy. However, I think this poster has crossed the line and that was the reason for my suggestion. His words and actions have certainly served to undermine the credibility of whatever cause he is advocating.
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10-22-2010, 10:09 PM | #74 |
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Regarding that Barber Pole No Wake zone situation; you guys were the petitioners and biggest proponents of the undeserved personal No Wake Zone in front of the house of one of your own a couple of years back. Few of those fronting that petition were "local residents" then, and none of you seem concerned that your petition then got through without all this notification of the real local residents. Is "Safe" Boaters going to try to have that petition repealed? Are they moving for a new hearing to set that one right?
[sound of crickets chirping] I didn't think so. The hypocracy is comical. |
11-08-2010, 06:39 AM | #75 |
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Barber Pole update
No wake ruling reversed after questions raised about process
Staff Report Monday, November 8, 2010 CONCORD — The state Department of Safety has reversed its earlier decision establishing the largest no wake zone on Lake Winnipesaukee and has ordered the process reopened. The Department of Safety ruled that the legal requirement may not have been met and has ordered the people calling for a no wake zone at Lake Winnipesaukee's "Barber Pole" to show proof of residency. The department also ruled that proper legal notice was given via publication in the only statewide newspaper in New Hampshire. The decision was made after a petition by residents of the area and Safe Boaters of New Hampshire questioned whether proper notification was given since most of the property owners in the area were unaware of the petition until after a ruling had been made, and whether the original petitioners met the legal requirements to file such a petition. Safe Boaters of New Hampshire believes that in the era of dwindling newspaper circulation and greater reliance on the Internet and other forms of communication, the methods of legal notification accepted in the past are no longer adequate. Safe Boaters of New Hampshire has filed a bill that would address the notification process when a petition to change or restrict the use of New Hampshire's public waterways is being considered. The bill requires the petitioners to notify the abutters of the area being targeted by certified mail and requires the Department of Safety to post the notification of the petition on the department's official website at least two weeks before the hearing. Regardless of the outcome of the "Barber Pole" no wake zone issue Safe Boaters of New Hampshire firmly believes everyone affected should have an opportunity to know about the proposed changes before decisions being made. |
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11-21-2010, 02:01 PM | #76 |
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Steve drop it. It's not worth it. TB is grasping at straws. He obviously doesn't read anything thoroughly. If he did he would already know that the Squirrel Islanders are transient. The house is rented 100% of the summer. But thems are facts and facts don't matter to good ole Turtle Boy. Hahahaha
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11-21-2010, 02:41 PM | #77 | |
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Quote:
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11-21-2010, 03:10 PM | #78 |
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Does anyone else want to take this and spell out the obvious? I'll get it started. TB what was the reason given by the state that the original hearing was deemed invalid? I'll give you three guesses and the first two don't count. Hahahaha.
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11-21-2010, 03:23 PM | #79 |
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Beat me to it Hazelnut!
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__________________ __________________ So what have we learned in the past two thousand years? "The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of Obamunism should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest the Republic become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance." . . .Evidently nothing. (Cicero, 55 BC augmented by me, 2010 AD) |
11-21-2010, 04:24 PM | #80 | |
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We got our SL...you need to get over it...you really are a nasty and denigrating person as has been pointed out in the past; hope they get their NWZ...their testimony is compelling and it seems inevitable they will eventually prevail. |
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11-21-2010, 05:04 PM | #81 | |
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Quote:
Requoting OCD in post# 220: "the Original Petition fails to provide the requisite number of signatures with supporting proof that the co petitioners are either residents or property owners pursuant to RSA 270:12,I. Based upon my response within section IV, (sub. 3), the Appellants Motion to Reopen pursuant to RSA 541:3 are granted. The original petitioners must provide proof that a minium number of the original 25 co-petitioners listed in the original document are residents or property owners in Tuftonboro by use of official town record. Since many petitioners are of the same family / property this will be impossible to do." This is yet another in a LONG line of your lame attempts to intentionally and feebly misdirect the truth. Why do you keep digging the hole that you're in deeper?
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__________________ __________________ So what have we learned in the past two thousand years? "The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of Obamunism should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest the Republic become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance." . . .Evidently nothing. (Cicero, 55 BC augmented by me, 2010 AD) Last edited by Yankee; 11-22-2010 at 06:13 PM. |
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11-21-2010, 11:17 PM | #82 | ||
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Was Mr. Phillips the Coach? He was my favorite. He sounded eloquent enough to be Warren Clark. You guys must have been planning this since you first came across some old filings. TB, you really should pass this off to WC, he's a much better liar than you are, lot's smoother as well. One thing to consider. Right here on this forum, you and others, have completely contradicted your prior statements about how wonderful and peaceful the lake has been, For Two Years Now.!!! Everyone's keeping track at this point, because sure as there's an idiot missing from someone's village, you guys will come out with some outlandish (and contradictory) story for next year's misery. |
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11-22-2010, 12:22 PM | #83 |
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Still waiting for TB to answer the question poised by Yankee. But since the silence is so defining, I think we all know the answer.
Acres, yes, I do consider you to be in the 3 or 4. |
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11-21-2010, 06:03 PM | #85 |
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No problem Hazelnut. When people such as ReptileBoy promote circumvention of the laws in this state/country for their own selfish interests it really, really pisses me off!
And no, ReptileBoy I am not a member nor do I know anyone associated with SBONH.
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__________________ __________________ So what have we learned in the past two thousand years? "The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of Obamunism should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest the Republic become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance." . . .Evidently nothing. (Cicero, 55 BC augmented by me, 2010 AD) |
10-23-2010, 10:23 AM | #86 |
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And you are such a Democrat. This is so typical a response from someone like you. We have apparently decided that there are no more lines to be crossed. Resorting to such childishness as name-calling might work for you at the bar, but I am not intimidated. Aggressive behavior is no longer going to work for you and your buddies. It doesn't work on the lake, it won't work on the forum. As impossible as this may sound, you have further embarrassed yourself.
Is this how you talk to your little students? This is why home-schooling is gaining so much popularity. Who would want to trap their little girl or boy in a classroom with a "teacher" who talks like this? Do you beat them physically too, or just emotionally? |
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10-23-2010, 12:56 PM | #87 |
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Beyond Contempt
Let’s see if I have this right. Anyone one who disagrees with BIM, El C or Ed C or his cadre is “emotionally pre-pubescent or blind, or both” or even worse, a “Democrat”. Perhaps some of your supporters might be of that politically persuasion. Your self serving and patently false descriptions of how “heavenly” it is as result of the speed limit fool on one and you are simply preaching to your adoring choir and producing word bites in an attempt to denigrate all those who disagree with you.
As I noted previously: “Obviously, there has been a death among the deities and APS, SOTD, TB, BI, El-C et. al. have been appointed to determine infallibly what is reasonable and civilized for us all, whether it be speed, horsepower, size or type of boat, no wake zones or whatever else annoys or disturbs them from time to time.” BIM, El C or Ed C refers to hypocrisy, childishness and idiocy. He should look in the mirror for perfect examples, assuming that the mirror does not fracture in horror. Your pathetic attempts to insult someone like Hazelnut demonstrate your true character. Suggesting on a public forum that someone may beat children or abuse them emotionally is beyond contempt. When you have no remaining rational arguments, you resort to this. And to think that someone would thank you for that post! Your tactics are those of a megalomaniac and despot. With such a fearless, honest, honorable and never deceptive leader as BIM, El C or Ed C and his band of sycophants, we can all sleep, or boat, well. |
10-23-2010, 02:01 PM | #88 |
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This unmoderated forum is great, it allows you guys to show your real simian selves and degrade into the behavior that you use to display when you were behind the wheels of your thunder boats. The slightest frustration, and you turn into babbling and vulgar bullies.
The lake was just great this summer...just like the summer before. No high speed accidents, nobody killed because someone was driving his (or her) boat too fast. The kids camps were taking their members out canoeing again. Sailing returned in a big way. Trolling for salmon in the Broads was enjoyable again. It was Winnipesaukee the way it is supposed to be... The way it always was before you...the way it is depicted in our tourism brochures and ads. It was shared safely and enjoyably by everyone. You guys repeatedly talked about how the SL did not chase you away or slow you down, so obviously, it was not a problem for you. But that backfired, so now you are trying to claim differently...even resorting to some silly tactic that you are all buying Carvers to swamp us and teach us a lesson. What good sports you are. You just oppose the SL because you did not get your way, as you are so accustomed. You just don't like rules and limitations no matter how reasonable. If we asked for a 200MPH SL, you would have opposed it and you'd be fighting to repeal it. "Safe" boaters my ***. You can put lipstick on a pig, but its still a pig. |
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10-23-2010, 03:17 PM | #89 |
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***
Q. E. D.
Thanks. |
10-24-2010, 08:22 AM | #90 | |
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Thanks for the laughs. |
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10-23-2010, 04:34 PM | #91 |
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HuH?
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10-23-2010, 05:16 PM | #92 |
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Watching this is weird, it's like some of the old usenet groups in the 1990's. I trying to guess who will break Godwin's law first.
Calling someone a Democrat doesn't count. |
10-24-2010, 09:16 AM | #93 |
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I just keep thinking how scary it is to think that a guy like this has our little kids for 6 hours a day. Imagine if Mommy really knew who she was entrusting little Suzie to? Very disturbing.
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10-24-2010, 12:46 PM | #94 | |
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Are you really a teacher of little kids or is this just a Halloween prank? Please be honest with me, are you Leo Sandy? He's that teacher who always writes those letters to the LDS...is that really you? Now, let's get back on topic. Are you guys going to use the same passion to have your Eagle Island (Bourgeoious) NWZ repealed because it too was "put through under the radar"? I've asked this several times and you guys keep changing the topic and using red herring responses to name-call and turn the discussion into one about me. Just answer yes or no. That Eagle Island NWZ process was IDENTICAL to the BP one in every way, yet not only were you-all behind it because it gave one of your "safe" members a personal quiet zone to enjoy when he was not out in his thunder boat harassing the rest of us, but now you do not want to discuss it because it shows the hypocrisy of your current actions, and shows the lie that "its not about being able to go really fast, we only want these things to be done in the open" really is. Was the SL "put through under the radar" too? You should use also try this argument when you file for that repeal. I do not care much about the Barber Pole area. I'm over there maybe five times a year and am usually trolling and going headway speed anyway. Bass boaters sometimes pass me going way too fast, but they are not as threatening as a 10000 pound thunder boat and the operators of bass boats can see over their bows, and are rarely drunk, so I don't worry about them running me over. I hope the BP NWZ goes through, only because it is what the people who live there...the people who know first hand what goes on there day in and day out... want. And because I know that the "its not about being able to go really fast, we only want these things to be done in the open" motto was written by the same phonies who gave us "safe boaters"...and I know who they really are and what they are really about. Sorry if all this disturbs you, but you reap what you sow. Now please have that emoticon issue looked into. It might not do any harm in and of itself, but it is a marker for a progressively deteriorating mental state that should be nipped in the bud. |
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10-24-2010, 03:14 PM | #95 | ||||
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10-24-2010, 07:00 PM | #96 | ||||
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Check Again...
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However, every one of SBONH-NHRBA's operatives overlooked that opportunity. As I am for "equal-opportunity" at forums, I am compelled to repeat that previous phrase once again: Quote:
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(Or "Bourgeious".) Last edited by ApS; 10-25-2010 at 02:16 AM. Reason: Bourgeoious? |
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10-25-2010, 11:25 AM | #97 |
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As the saying goes, a picture is worth a thousand words, and just look'n at this picture helps the casual observer to maybe understand why performance boating can get into one's blood, and be such a highly addictive fun-time hobby. The photo helps to answer the question: Why do some simply have 'the need for speed?'
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10-29-2010, 04:50 AM | #98 | |
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"We can't see Buoys, Markers, or Kayaks"
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But I bothered to have the medical checkups, the training, the eyesight exams, the experience, the head-gear, the body-gear, the inspections, the organizational excellence, the exacting locations and the overwhelming safety considerations for those speeds—which in most cases didn't see the extreme speeds showcased on Winnipesaukee. Having "first-hand" observations of extreme speed on Lake Winnipesaukee is never what I had in mind. |
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10-29-2010, 11:32 AM | #99 | |
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10-25-2010, 10:31 AM | #100 |
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I was asked to come back by one of your gang;
This was the final straw in a long line of taunts by those who had been unwilling to debate me when I was posting before, but saw my promise to abandon as an opportunity to take shots at me and keep dropping my name. My continued silence would have been risking the wrong impression. Interesting that this guy/gal Hammond (probably a fake name) had never engaged me before, and has not engaged me since. He is apparently the type who likes to kick a guy in handcuffs. A combination of having lost my elchase password and the desire to start anew led me to create a new screen name..it was simply easier than asking for a new password, and it gave the opportunity to make that covert post and show OCD for who he really is. And I had gotten tired before of being the only person on this forum who was brave enough to post under his real name, and had regretted doing that once people from your side started "investigating" me and going back and forth to "make big wakes" in front of my home. My problem had been with the editing of my posts by the moderator, the back-breaker being one on this very topic that was edited in a way that turned its intent completely around, causing others to think I was saying the exact opposite of what I had actually written. I did not want to continue posting under such uncertainty. But I was not aware that the moderator was going to start this unmoderated forum, and I feel this is exactly the kind of forum that a debate with the likes of your gang needs. We get to see how vulgar and primitive you all can be, and I get to express my thoughts without waiting three days for them to show up, and then find that they have been changed. I'm enjoying this much more than ever. I do not consider this to be the forum that I swore out of...the moderated forum. Please know though that I will honor my pledge to remain out of that one...unless you guys taunt there too. Last edited by Bearislandmoose; 10-25-2010 at 06:44 PM. |
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