Poker Run - still going on?

[OCDACTIVE]

Just wondering if Easter Seals or Baja are still doing the poker runs this year due to the new laws that we can't discuss. I know that a lot of bigger faster boats come to the lake specifially for those runs. I am just wondering if anyone has heard or if there has been announcements concerning this. Thanks!

[Rattlesnake Gal]

July 11, 2009
Lake & Land Poker Run
Lake Winnipesaukee

[OCDACTIVE]

Great.. I hope to run it this year.. I wonder how far down the turn out will be...

[BroadHopper]

Formula owners are not going anywhere....................

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Formula owners are not going anywhere....................

I don't think too many owners of fast boats will be going... Don't want to risk it.. Such a shame.. They bring a lot of money up this way.. And since they are for charity that will also take a hit.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

I don't think too many owners of fast boats will be going... Don't want to risk it.. Such a shame.. They bring a lot of money up this way.. And since they are for charity that will also take a hit.

No offense, but the tone of your posts in this thread kinda sound like premature complaining before you've even had the chance to measure the effects of something.

Poker run attendance could be down this year because of people put off by the speed limit laws, put off by the economy, put off by just wanting to do something different, or any number of things. Just as likely, attendance could be UP by people in pontoon boats and little runabouts (which outnumber the fast boats on the lake) because they feel they might actually have a better chance at winning with less competition.

Who knows... But complaining about theoretical possibilities on this topic has a bit of a sore-loser feel to it.

Why should the owners of "fast boats" not go? What are they risking? Are you trying to imply the throttles have only two positions, off and full?

[ApS]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

"...Who knows...But complaining about theoretical possibilities on this topic has a bit of a sore-loser feel to it..."

Agree with what brk-lnt said...

[OCDACTIVE]

There was no complaining or future complaining in any post. I did state that if the turnout is down then it would be a shame. I hope your speculation is correct that many other boats participate. I for one will be there either way. However being part of the poker run circuit I do know that historically these events are geared towards the faster boats. In speaking with some other owners they have decided not to come up. Hopefully as you pointed out they will be made up by other participants. Only time will tell.... Maybe Easterseals can figure out a way to market it towards groups not commonly active in the event. It could start an entirely new grouping.

sorry if my "tone" upset you. Not my intention of getting a controversy started. Just wondering if it was still going on and how many people are planning on participating.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

However being part of the poker run circuit I do know that historically these events are geared towards the faster boats.

If the owners of those boats participated in the past for the sake of supporting the event and helping to raise funds, then there is nothing that is any different this year which should prevent them from continuing that tradition.

If people were participating primarily for an excuse to drive as fast as possible around the lake, then I would argue those are the attitudes that caused some people to believe we actually needed MORE laws on the lake. I would also then argue those participates do everyone a service by staying off the lake...

The new laws in effect this year would make a Poker Run more of an IROC-style event. If certain parameters are "capped" and more even for all participants, then the winners come about based on skill and cunning. A nimble hull and a familiarity with the lake would be major determining factors in the outcome of the winner. To me, this seems like a far greater challenge than a simple raw application of horsepower. Most of the performance boaters that *I've* known in the close to 30 years I've been boating would step up to such a challenge as a way to showcase their true skills.

Perhaps your friends fall more on the power than on the skill side of the equation...

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

The new laws in effect this year would make a Poker Run more of an IROC-style event. If certain parameters are "capped" and more even for all participants, then the winners come about based on skill and cunning. A nimble hull and a familiarity with the lake would be major determining factors in the outcome of the winner. To me, this seems like a far greater challenge than a simple raw application of horsepower. Most of the performance boaters that *I've* known in the close to 30 years I've been boating would step up to such a challenge as a way to showcase their true skills.

Perhaps your friends fall more on the power than on the skill side of the equation...

I totally understand your point, but by your post I am assuming you have never participated in a poker run. They are in NO WAY a race what so ever. Even implying that is very bad for poker runs and organizers. Poker run sponsors for years have been working hard with insurance companies to make sure people know these are boating events and in no way races and to keep the event safe. Not blaming you in the least it is a common misconception.

The person who arrives first at a stop has no more an advantage over someone who arrives 25th. There are many ways to do it and as on lake winni there is not even a set goal or set numbered spots. In other words of the five different spots, you can go at your convenience to any one of them. The Goal is to make it to each stop and collect a chip showing you have been there. Once you return you turn your chips in for playing cards. Other Runs have you pick your cards when you pay for your entry so you don't have to worry about picking up chips or losing them. In come cases you technically don't even have to stop. However they usually give you some nice prizes at these stops so it is advantageous to do so, plus gives you a chance to talk with other participants.

Anyway with all of that said....... Whether or not you think people should not care of limits or not, the normal poker run person who travels the circuit usually are the faster bigger boats. They have their own magazines, videos etc. Poker runs bring in a lot of money for charity and for the surrounding communities. Last year I was in one in Virgina and they rasied $20K for charity!!! Very good in todays economy IMO. So hopefully they are able to pick up those they may lose to offset the difference.. But from what I have seen so far there has been no difference in how it is being marketed so I guess we will have to see.

PS - as you can see I am not trying to get into a bickering match over "that we shall not talk about"

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

If the owners of those boats participated in the past for the sake of supporting the event and helping to raise funds, then there is nothing that is any different this year which should prevent them from continuing that tradition.

That is why I am still doing it as well. However, if they want to get this up to national status in the poker run circuit it will be difficult to do so. I wonder if it would be possible to petition the state to treat this as a "special event" in which they can suspend the rules for that particular day. They have done it in the past when the racing circuit came and did the races. (I wonder why they ever stopped doing those. It was incredible to see up close!!)

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

I totally understand your point, but by your post I am assuming you have never participated in a poker run. They are in NO WAY a race what so ever. Even implying that is very bad for poker runs and organizers. Poker run sponsors for years have been working hard with insurance companies to make sure people know these are boating events and in no way races and to keep the event safe. Not blaming you in the least it is a common misconception.

PS - as you can see I am not trying to get into a bickering match over "that we shall not talk about"

I've been involved in boating since before I started grade school. If it can be done on a boat/on the water there is a high probability I have done it.

I'm well aware of the marketing angle of a poker run.

Your post leaves me very confused though. If the Poker Run is not a race in any way shape or form, then why exactly would new laws discourage performance boat owners from participating?

What has changed from last year to this year that affects boats in an event that is not a race?

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

That is why I am still doing it as well. However, if they want to get this up to national status in the poker run circuit it will be difficult to do so. I wonder if it would be possible to petition the state to treat this as a "special event" in which they can suspend the rules for that particular day. They have done it in the past when the racing circuit came and did the races. (I wonder why they ever stopped doing those. It was incredible to see up close!!)

What rules would need to be suspended for a non-race event? The 150' rule? I could see where that could be an issue when a lot of boats are converging on the same places. I'm not a big fan of the 150' rule in general.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

I've been involved in boating since before I started grade school. If it can be done on a boat/on the water there is a high probability I have done it.

I'm well aware of the marketing angle of a poker run.

Your post leaves me very confused though. If the Poker Run is not a race in any way shape or form, then why exactly would new laws discourage performance boat owners from participating?

What has changed from last year to this year that affects boats in an event that is not a race?

I don't want to go down this path and watch the thread go POOF!.. but as I mentioned before a lot of the go fast boats who travel the poker run circuit have been turned off by the new restrictions. They and I do not go around with our sticks planted to the dash.... It would just cost too much in gas first of all not to mention I can't think of anywhere other then the broads I would even consider doing that.

Now, not withstanding that, the bigger faster boats the travel the circuit usually have a safe cruising speed over 45 or 50. And if they want to push it up a bit then they don't want to feel restricted in doing so. So many have just decided to avoid the hassell all together.

No offense, but from reading your previous posts it just seems like you are looking for an argument. I personally don't want to get into it for there are plenty to read in to the locked forum.

Getting back to why I started the thread: I am just wondering 1st if they were still having one (answer is yes see post #2) and 2nd who is planning on attending and their thoughts on this years run.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

What rules would need to be suspended for a non-race event? The 150' rule? I could see where that could be an issue when a lot of boats are converging on the same places. I'm not a big fan of the 150' rule in general.

I agree with you.. Never thought of the congestion issue. I had meant the speed and noise regulations.. This would allow for a national presence on the poker run circuit..... BUT only other issue is I just found out that one of the top 5 poker runs in the country are happening on July 11th.. Jammin on the James River in VA..... Limits or not... I won't be on lake winni.... Can't miss that time... Absolutely an incridible run. Overnight as well... Check out the start from last year:

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

I've been involved in boating since before I started grade school. If it can be done on a boat/on the water there is a high probability I have done it.

I'm well aware of the marketing angle of a poker run.

Your post leaves me very confused though. If the Poker Run is not a race in any way shape or form, then why exactly would new laws discourage performance boat owners from participating?

What has changed from last year to this year that affects boats in an event that is not a race?

Brk...

I think your baiting OD, but in case your not...

Its pretty simple!

Nobody is going to spend the $$$ to truck thier super expensive High Performance boat to Lake Winnipesaukee where there is now a 45 MPH speed limit... especially in this economy!

Most of the "Out of Town" Hi-Perf boaters I know will elect to participate in a Poker Run someplace else... where they are made welcome and spend thier hard earned money there!

I guess in this aspect, HB-847 is working as its authors intended...

I have participated every year, and I will participate again this year. It will be interesting to see how much less money is raised.

Woodsy

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Brk...

I think your baiting OD, but in case your not...

Its pretty simple!

Nobody is going to spend the $$$ to truck thier super expensive High Performance boat to Lake Winnipesaukee where there is now a 45 MPH speed limit... especially in this economy!

Most of the "Out of Town" Hi-Perf boaters I know will elect to participate in a Poker Run someplace else... where they are made welcome and spend thier hard earned money there!

I guess in this aspect, HB-847 is working as its authors intended...

I have participated every year, and I will participate again this year. It will be interesting to see how much less money is raised.

Woodsy

Very well said woodsy.. Thank you...

you should come to VA with us.... worth every penny and they couldn't be nicer.. The MP actually clear the river at the start where it is a little bit narrower so that it safe for everyone. Great Times....

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Brk...

I think your baiting OD, but in case your not...

Its pretty simple!

You're right, I was kinda baiting him.

I saw the first post in this thread and shrugged. Then he was keeping the thread alive with this the-sky-is-falling theme so I decided to nudge it a bit.

The Poker Run stuff amuses me deeply. It's NOT a race, but if there is a speed limit in place turnout will somehow be affected. And the BEST Poker Runs apparently have lots of high performance boats running a speed that appears to be quite a fair bit above what most people would call "cruising speed" (see photo above). But, it's not a race.

Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against the Poker Runs, they're fun, and I don't blame them for keeping distance from the speed-competitive aspect of it all.

For the record (and you already know this if you read my posts from last year) in my opinion the speed limit bill is a solution looking for a problem. I'm not stating this to re-open an argument, the outcome of all this has already been settled. I just want to make it clear where I stand on the issue.

In my own opinion Winnipesaukee is NOT what I would call a "boaters" lake. There are way too many rules and regulations that prevent it from being utilized optimally for what I deem to be "boating", not to mention that relatively speaking it's pretty small. I don't mean to sound arrogant, but the way I grew up a 4 boat raft was "a good start" and a 5 hour cruise would take you a relatively short distance from where you began in proportion to how far you could go.

Part of the problems in the lake come from the fact that a lot of people (again based only on my own opinions and observations) who would otherwise never consider "boating" feel a false sense of safety and security on this relatively small inland lake. I see behavior every day I'm on the lake in the summer that just astounds me. There is a high concentration of arrogance and stupidity across vessels and operators of all sizes and shapes. I would argue that at least 1/2 of the watercraft on the lake are not operated by "boaters", but by "people who happen to own a boat". More captains should experience being out in the middle of a body of water where you cannot see land in any direction and the seas are running 4'-5' and you're attempting to determine your location and progress based on reckoning skills and charts and calipers. Crossing The Broads (unless you're in a kayak perhaps) is not an accomplishment that earns you a spot at the big boys' table.

All of this leads to an ever growing list of things you can't do and places you can't go, etc. At the same time, left to their own devices many people seem incapable of conducting themselves properly, so what can you do...

Sorry if I got off a rant, boating is something akin to tradition to me and I get a little irritated when I see people trampling upon the sport. This is of course a long way from the theme of the Poker Runs that started this thread.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

You're right, I was kinda baiting him.

I saw the first post in this thread and shrugged. Then he was keeping the thread alive with this the-sky-is-falling theme so I decided to nudge it a bit.

The Poker Run stuff amuses me deeply. It's NOT a race, but if there is a speed limit in place turnout will somehow be affected. And the BEST Poker Runs apparently have lots of high performance boats running a speed that appears to be quite a fair bit above what most people would call "cruising speed" (see photo above). But, it's not a race.

Hey Brk,

I think you and I agree on more then we disagree on. You have many very good and well thought out opinions. I enjoyed reading that.... Not so much of being baited but all in good fun...

I am in the middle of that photo.. Surprisingly enough that was cruising.. Around 55mph.. Those boats are so stable at that speed you could put a coke down walk away and it wouldn't have moved by the time you walk back. This particular run where the photo was taken is a destination poker run. You all start off at the same place in different heats depending on your "desired" speed. Faster in front obviously. I have friends whose boats are very capable of going well over 80 and could stay up with the front guys. They choose to go in the second heat because they would rather cruise. Now of course this looks like a race because it is on a river. We start way up in Richmond and end up in Norfolk where we stay overnight. There is a pace boat to make sure no one is getting too far out in front because as mentioned there are MP's helping them all the way down. Hundreds of people come out and watch from the shorelines and it is an incredible time.

Winni obviously can't be done in this method so they do the port to port run. Still very fun and works well in a lake situation.

Anyway.. good talking with ya.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

Hey Brk,

I think you and I agree on more then we disagree on. You have many very good and well thought out opinions. I enjoyed reading that.... Not so much of being baited but all in good fun...

I am in the middle of that photo..

Don't worry, we agree on plenty. Sorry to bait you along, sometimes one of my hobbies is being an antagonist

I know what you mean about the speed/stability thing of the offshore hulls. Last October I was on a business trip in the British Virgins Isles to visit one of my dealers working on a security project on the island. He had just gotten his 38' Sonic out from being overhauled and rebuilt. We went from Road Town/Tortola to Peters Island to Virgin Gorda and back in 3' swells at 60+MPH with hardly a bump. The only reason we moved so slow was because the engines were being broken in on this run.

[OCDACTIVE]

Beautiful Boat.. Love Sonics they are very similar to Active Thunders.

You know exactly what I mean then... They are beyond stable and are very much in control even at high speeds. I used to love going to the Naswa after the poker runs and seeing boats just like that. I realize now you were just egging me on but don't you think that when in a boat like that it is seriously feels very slow at 50 mph? It is like riding in a corvette on allegator alley in FL and only going 65... Just feels slow.

I think that if there was a way to attract the national poker run circuit it would be very beneficial to the economy. I mean the gas alone these take you know as well as I are incredibile. Plus if you have boats like that you have no problem putting money down on local hotels, resturants, bars etc.

As an example Check out the lunch stop!

[upthesaukee]

ODCACTIVE: I think if you edit your posts with photos, bringing the size of the photos down to 3x5 or so, the photos will still be looking good, and the thread will not require scrolling left and right to read.

Thanks

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

ODCACTIVE: I think if you edit your posts with photos, bringing the size of the photos down to 3x5 or so, the photos will still be looking good, and the thread will not require scrolling left and right to read.

Thanks

They actually fit fine on my screen.. sorry.. I also am not that great with computers.. It was a valient effort just to figure out how to get them on here..

[SIKSUKR]

You 2 need to get a room.