tax data

[TomC]

Tax threads come up often on the forum, and are entertaining if not informational. Here is a chart that shows property tax burdens in a couple of ways. State ranks are shown for absolute dollars (NH ranked 2nd highest), % of property value (NH ranked 5th highest), and % of owner's income (NH ranked 2nd highest).

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...StateRank.aspx


Of course other taxes don't exist (Sales/income) in NH, so in fairness total tax burden should be assessed. But it is easy to see why a retired property owner on a limited income (wouldn't pay much income tax) who doesn't buy much (wouldn't pay much sales tax) is getting squeezed...

[DRH]

Of course other taxes don't exist (Sales/income) in NH, so in fairness total tax burden should be assessed. But it is easy to see why a retired property owner on a limited income (wouldn't pay much income tax) who doesn't buy much (wouldn't pay much sales tax) is getting squeezed...

Actually, NH does have a personal "income" tax that many people are not aware of. Most interest and dividends are taxed by the state at 5%. This means that everyone who has saved and invested during their working years in CDs, bonds, stocks and/or mutual funds that were not in an IRA, 401(k) or other tax-deferred account must pay 5% on the interest and dividends those investments produce.

People whose employers do not provide 401(k)s, for example, or who may have gotten a late start in their retirement planning and who had to invest more than an IRA would allow each year, must pay 5% on most or all the income their non-IRA investments produce. As a result, retirees who live off the interest and/or dividends from those investments do, in effect, pay a 5% "income" tax in addition to their property tax.

[fatlazyless]

So therefore, it would seem to me in my finate wisdom that we can all thank the old folks, you know that retired elderly couple up the street or that newly widowed wife who drives a little Ford Focus. Aren't they the ones who are doing all the heavy tax lifting, all across the state?

Taxes on property and savings/dividends are some of the biggest New Hampshire revenue producers. Win 800+thousand dollars in a Powerball quik-pik like our Senator Judd 'Easy-Money' Gregg and the state gets a big zero......nada.....nothing.....el goose egg.....bupkis!

Now, that's the New Hampshire Advantage which the New Hampshire Republicans want us to protect!

[Irish mist]

Sure.......NH will be all "fixed" with an income tax and a sales tax and a capital gains tax, after all, look at New Jersery, and New York, and Massachusetts who have ALL those taxes. Here's a fact: not one state in these United States has ever seen their total tax burden go down with the addition of a new tax stream, ever !

But it's going to happen here ?
________
Vaporizer Answer

[Merrymeeting]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Win 800+thousand dollars in a Powerball quik-pik like our Senator Judd 'Easy-Money' Gregg and the state gets a big zero......nada.....nothing.....el goose egg.....bupkis!

FLL, if I had a nickle for everytime you've posted that point on this forum, I could pay my taxes! (we get it... time to let it go)

[MomCat]

Thanks, TomC, for the info. This was a timely post.

My husband and I are coming to the heartbreaking conclusion that we may have to abandon our dream of retiring to the Lakes Region within the next couple of years and expanding our vacation home near Meredith into our year-round permanent residence. We’ve been prepared to spend a substantial amount of money on design/remodeling/improvements, including new appliances and heating system, furnishings, etc. (all going to local businesses). But because we know that this project would result in a HUGE increase (even a new dishwasher impacts your assessment) to our already excessive—and rapidly increasing—property tax bill, we are forced to rethink our plans.

We realize that we will not be able to match the peace and beauty of our location on a small lake near Meredith anywhere else, and we hoped to enjoy the quality of life, lifestyle, and people of the Lakes Region for many years to come. As educated, financially secure professionals, we looked forward to contributing to the community with volunteer service and financial support. But the relentless and disproportionate escalation in taxes—as well as steep hikes in fuel and utility costs, and expenses for plowing and maintenance—has caused us to rethink our plans: Yes, we could "afford" it, but is it worth it? Most of all, we resent being extorted by state and local government through an unfair tax system. Thus, we may decide to take all of those hard-earned retirement dollars to the South, where they will go much further. Eastern Tennessee, for example, has a lot to offer in terms of lakes and mountain scenery (Smokies), but taxes, utilities, and real estate—including waterfront—are bargains compared to NH. The many thousands we would save on property taxes could then be spent in the local economy, contributed to charities, and invested. We love NH and would love to live in and contribute to the Lakes Region, but NH doesn’t seem to love us back or want us to stay—it’s certainly making it much easier for us to consider saying “Good-By.” (Sorry for the long rant, but this is a very serious—and sad—issue for us, and I suspect we’re not alone.)

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Win 800+thousand dollars in a Powerball quik-pik like our Senator Judd 'Easy-Money' Gregg and the state gets a big zero......nada.....nothing.....el goose egg.....bupkis!

Now, that's the New Hampshire Advantage which the New Hampshire Republicans want us to protect!

Since you love posting this statement about Judd Gregg,(at least 8 times I can recall)can you explain to me and everyone else here what this has to do with NH republicans and what they are protecting?Did NH republicans say Judd Gregg does not have to pay taxes to NH for that lottery winnings?Was this a national lottery so the taxes were taken out and distributed throughout all the participating states?Please clarify this statement or stop misleading people with your typical democratic scare slander tactics.
Having said that FLL,I do enjoy a lot of your posts but you like to beat a dead horse on a few select issues and inject them in threads that have they nothing to do with.

[fatlazyless]

Hello SIKSUKR, very good question, I'll keep my answer brief.

The battle cry of the NH Republican party is 'we need to protect the NH Advantage, no sales or income tax!' The reason why NH has no sales or income tax is because a sales and income tax are built into the very high property taxes. As a widely known, reverred and powerfull politician, Senator Gregg's five out of six, quik-pik, Powerball win of 800+thousand dollars in October 2005 is a dramatic example which illustrates our New Hampshire state tax system is not a fair system. It is not based on one's abilty to pay.

On the same day that Senator Judd 'Easy-Money' Gregg won his 800+ thousand dollars, I personally purchased a McChicken sandwich and the state gets a tax of eight cents. I pay eight cents, while Senator Gregg pays zero. This says that I am subsidizing Senator Gregg for his use of NH state services. Is this a fair tax system?

[Skip]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Hello SIKSUKR, very good question, I'll keep my answer brief.

The battle cry of the NH Republican party is 'we need to protect the NH Advantage, no sales or income tax!' The reason why NH has no sales or income tax is because a sales and income tax are built into the very high property taxes. As a widely known, reverred and powerfull politician, Senator Gregg's five out of six, quik-pik, Powerball win of 800+thousand dollars in October 2005 is a dramatic example which illustrates our New Hampshire state tax system is not a fair system. It is not based on one's abilty to pay.

On the same day that Senator Judd 'Easy-Money' Gregg won his 800+ thousand dollars, I personally purchased a McChicken sandwich and the state gets a tax of eight cents. I pay eight cents, while Senator Gregg pays zero. This says that I am subsidizing Senator Gregg for his use of NH state services. Is this a fair tax system?

First off, the slogan "we need to protect the NH Advantage, no sales or income tax!" has been co-opted by the Democratic Party and is no longer the exclusive mantra of the State's Republicans. Remember, our very popular DEMOCRATIC Governor has campaigned successfully and been re-elected on his promise of vetoing any sales or income tax brought to his desk. A promise, mind you, also given by many of the re-elected and newly elected Democratic members of the House & Senate.

Truth is the so called NH advantage is a view that is still held by the majority of voters in the State of New Hampshire and that is why you will see no income or sales tax come out of Concord these next two years, it is simply not the will of the majority of elected officials and it is still not the will of the majority of the folks qualified to elect those same officials!

As for Judd Gregg he puts his pants on one leg at a time, no different than me or you. Each and every one of us had the same chance to purchase and win the Powerball. It does not discriminate over income, property, political or religous beliefs or petty jealousy.

And yes, while the good Senator did not pay an income tax in New Hampshire on his winnings he did pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in Federal income tax on same. Of those hundreds of thousands of income tax dollars, a portion of that money made it back to New Hampshire in various forms of federal aid, much more in dollars than the paltry eight cents you paid while resting on your laurels contemplating Judd Gregg's good fortune over a McChicken sandwich.

No FLL, it is the good Senator that was subsidizing you all along! Methinks you better find another example in your quest to find the only fair tax system...you know, the fairest tax is the tax that the other guy pays!

[fatlazyless]

Hello Skip.....yes, there is a bumper sticker out there which goes 'lotteries - a tax on people who cannot do math.' Well, I don't think anyone will disagree that Senator Gregg certainly beat the odds of losing, big-time, when he made his Powerball win. My beef is not that he won a lottery, but with the New Hampshire tax system that his lottery win illustrates. It shines a 1000w light on the inequity of our NH tax system.

Almost unique amoung all the 50 states, only Alaska has a similar tax system to New Hampshire in that both states have both no sales and no income tax. Alaska has oil, so everytime anyone buys a gallon of gasoline they are helping Alaska. New Hampshire has lots of second homes owned by out-of-staters so it's people from away who are doing the heavy lifting here in New Hampshire. As long as property taxes have been low for New Hampshire residents, the New Hampshire Advantage tax system has been the way-to-tax for the last hundred years. Now that property taxes are not so low for many New Hampshire residents anymore, where-to Governor, which way do we go from here?

[jeffk]

New Hampshire has a fairly good exemption on the 5% tax. $2400 for single people and $4800 for joint filers. Interest rates are running less than 5% and dividends run around that as well. That means that a couple would need to have over $100,000 in interest and dividend bearing investments before they STARTED to pay anything on the 5% tax. Most stock investments make the most significant gains through capital gain growth. Any increase in value in your home or other property is also a capital gain. New Hampshire has no tax on capital gains. There is also no estate tax so you can pass your remaining estate on to your heirs without the state taking anything.

As to the "high" rates of New Hampshire property taxes, the overall tax burden of residents is shown year after year to be close to the lowest in the nation. I grant that retiring in NH can be painful because the property tax doesn't stop when the income does but no one seems to complain when they don't have to pay income or sales tax during their earning years. I've lived in the state for 22 years now and am well aware that if I want to retire here that I will have to continue to pay property tax and that my property is almost certain to appreciate. I have built that into my retirement planning and channel some of my income and sales tax "savings" to my retirement accounts so I will be able to afford my property taxes. There is no free lunch but I still think the NH system benefits me in the long run. Other states with higher and various means of taxation are no better off, many even having flirted with bankruptcy in recent years. I think the State of New Hampshire is stingy with the money of its citizens and, in my opinion, that's not a bad thing.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

... New Hampshire has lots of second homes owned by out-of-staters so it's people from away who are doing the heavy lifting here in New Hampshire... Now that property taxes are not so low for many New Hampshire residents anymore, where-to Governor, which way do we go from here?...

Yes, there are a number of second (vacation) homes in New Hampshire. But where is your statistical data that these homes are "doing the heavy lifting"?

I can understand your perspective owning lakeside property, but the fact of the matter is that the great bulk of property in New Hampshire is not located on lakeside (or oceanside) property. The folks really doing the "heavy lifting" are the average citizen & business located all throughout the State, those same folks that poll after poll & election after election reject any notion that an income tax or sales tax will substantially relieve their property tax burden. Yes, property taxes continue to rise....but not do to property values but simply due to the fact that at the local level people continue to elect to their school boards, boards of selectmen or Town/City Council politicians that continue to spend money at rates vastly above inflation.

JeffK has hit the nail right on the head.....even with the present property tax system New Hampshire citizens consistently find themselves the lowest taxed in the Nation. And just as there is with any tax system, whether it be income, property or sales based, there will be substantial perceived inequality for some in the minority...yourself included.

I continue to subscribe to the theory that the implementation of a sales or income tax will only leave all of us with less disposable income to pay an ever present property tax.

Its simply the spending at the local level that continues to do us in, spending that in one way or another all of us demand. When it comes to taxation I am found of repeating the saying: We have met the enemy....and it is us!

[vrrooom]

There is a NH advantage. I for one can live anywhere I want to in North America, and besides the quality of life (10 months out of the year anyway), the no income tax, no sales tax status of the state is the primary reason my legal address in NH. I have several other shelters in the US, and if NH were to have a income tax; one without said tax would become my legal residence. I moved to NH from NY state, and it was like a 20% raise because of the lack of sales and income taxes. NH and particularly the lakes region has lived on the taxes from non residents, I would encourage all taxpayers to register to vote in Gilford, Meridith, Center Harbor, whatever and express their feelings about the property takings err taxes. The only way we will get control of this is at the ballot box, to restrain the highest compensated (pay and benefits) public sevants. No taxation without representation nes pa?

[ITD]

Less,

Just curious, do you work to support yourself or are you retired?

[fatlazyless]

What am I? I'm an unemployed cdl-a truck driver that is waiting for the ski season to end on March 31 before I become an over-the-road driver for www.goroehl.com, out of Groveton NH. They have a seven day/on-off schedule where you drive and live in the truck, averaging hopefully 3000 miles/week, before returning back to Groveton on the seventh day, Friday. It's one week on, one week off, one week on, one week off, etcetera...

The boating season will obviously be starting in April, and this job will let me downhill ski, boat, and never have to commute to work, except for two times/week or something. It will just be me, the xm satellite radio, my world class collection of cassettes, some non-fiction books and shifting a ten speed, non-synchronized transmission with about 33 tons of finished paper for a load, heading to Pittsburg PA or Peducah KY or Greenwood GA, or somewhere. Could be I'll be sending more posts from a wi-fi zone in a Trucks America truckstop somewhere in New Jersey, or somewhere.

[dpg]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Hello SIKSUKR, very good question, I'll keep my answer brief.

The battle cry of the NH Republican party is 'we need to protect the NH Advantage, no sales or income tax!' The reason why NH has no sales or income tax is because a sales and income tax are built into the very high property taxes.

I guess I'm missing something here. I pay $6,500 in property taxes here in Mass WITH a sales and income tax. FLL - you live on the lake, where in this (perhaps country) isn't it expensive to have "lake front" property? And I won't even ask anybody from Rhode Island to chime in.

[dpg]

Sorry but here I go again - I think my dad might say it best. Whenever he hears someone complaining about there tax bill he quickly asks them: would you sell me your house for what's it's appraised? The answer is usually "well, no you crazy?" Can't speak for every town and state but I know where I live it would be a once in a life time steal if I were to sell at what the town has me valued at. So, what do I do complain, then they raise my taxes higher than $6,500!

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

[NightWing]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

I personally purchased a McChicken sandwich and the state gets a tax of eight cents.

Wow, gotta love that dollar menu.

[fatlazyless]

Yup, I'll be driv'n an 18-wheeler down that golden road straight through my golden years, into my 70's and 80's, just so's I can afford the property tax on my 55' of Winnipesaukee waterfront.

Hey, I'm healthy as a horse and just as smart. So's ya-know the trailers are 53', and the shoreline is 55', so don't that make it a 2' bargain!

If you see me out on the road, wave to me and I'll wave back!

[SteveA]

Originally Posted by jeffk

As to the "high" rates of New Hampshire property taxes, the overall tax burden of residents is shown year after year to be close to the lowest in the nation. I grant that retiring in NH can be painful because the property tax doesn't stop when the income does but no one seems to complain when they don't have to pay income or sales tax during their earning years.

Here is some information on the total tax burden by state. JeffK is on the mark..

http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lis...005/index.html

There is a strange number out there that has NH being the number 2 donor state. (defined as federal income tax dollars that are returned to the state in federal spending)

http://taxfoundation.org/blog/show/1397.html

me thinks we need to get our congresspeople and Senators to pay a little more attention this.

maybe the Feds could fund a huge study on the effect of speed limits on Winni!

They could hire all us experts from the forum.. It would take years to complete and we would have that extra money to pay our property taxes

Now before anyone goes postal on me here.. I clearly state the previous comments were meant as a joke.. and no animals were harmed in the production of this joke!

[fatlazyless]

How to get Federal projects in NH? NH has the FAA traffic control center in Nashua, and the Portsmouth Naval Ship yard in nearby Maine. A large federal prison is planned for Berlin which also has a large state prison. Sen Gregg certainly brought home the bacon with the new Berlin prison. As the paper mills fade away, prisons spring up. What other federal projects does NH have or could it get?

Who knows, maybe Shaheen will challenge Sununu in '08, and Lynch will challenge Gregg in '10?

[dpg]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

I can afford the property tax on my 55' of Winnipesaukee waterfront. Hey, I'm healthy as a horse and just as smart.

If you see me out on the road, wave to me and I'll wave back!

Hey listen it's 55' more than most people own.

[LIforrelaxin]

I saw some one make a post about Taxes in Alaska and this thread had me doing some research at one point.... And let me tell that all though the Tax set up appears to be the same in Alaska as it is in NH, it is not. All the towns in Alaska have there own little tax schemes, beyond Property Tax.... I found istances of Local liqour, sales, and room and board taxes. These where not states taxes they where individual city and town taxes that varied by quite a bit......I am not completely sure of this one, but I believe I even saw a town with a local income tax.

NH is all alone in thier tax scheme, and hay I agree with some posts out there, that the property tax isn't really all that awful....but NH needs to look at the Country and not just it surounding states, and realize that they can either drive property taxes so high that people like MomCat feel they can no longer comfortably afford to retire there, or spread out the cost of running the state by implmenting new tax ideas.....

Last I have never seen any one in this forum indicate that property tax would go down if another tax was added. I am so tired of seeing that arguemnt by those opposed to new tax legislation. All I have seen is people say stop raising property taxes and start creating new sources of income....

[SIKSUKR]

I still don't understand the reasoning behind calling out Judd Gregg for winning powerball.Was he supposed to pay NH taxes over and above what was already taken out before he recieved his portion?I could hear you now complaining if you won about how much the government took away from you in taxes.I bet you would not be running to pay more to NH.As a matter of fact,the high taxes are just what you are arguing against.I don't get it.

[Woodsy]

LI...

Almost every new "proposed" tax has been tagged somewhere in the promotional literature as "property tax relief". To me, and I may be wrong here, but property tax relief implies lowering property taxes. No new tax has ever resulted in a lowering of an existing tax.... EVER!

NH's tax structure isn't all that retirement friendly on paper.... however you could fool me!! Just look at the number of over 55 communities planned or in discussion around the lakes region.

I do sympathize with those who are feeling a bit squeezed out by the tax structure. The problem is supply and demand and I don't think its going to change...

Woodsy

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

LI...

Almost every new "proposed" tax has been tagged somewhere in the promotional literature as "property tax relief". To me, and I may be wrong here, but property tax relief implies lowering property taxes. No new tax has ever resulted in a lowering of an existing tax.... EVER!

I do sympathize with those who are feeling a bit squeezed out by the tax structure. The problem is supply and demand and I don't think its going to change...

Woodsy

hummm....this is interesting I see your point here on advertising a new tax and saying "property tax relief"....I guess in my mind I look at that and realize my property taxes won't go down, but understand that and additional tax of some other sort could keep it from continuing to rise thus relieve the property tax increases that we have all been feeling.... and I hope in my posts that I have not stated that I thought they would reduce property taxes because I know they won't....

Also you are right the problem is one of supply and demand... the state needs money for funding, and the issue here is the best way to do that.....I have stated my opinions before and therefore will not repeat myself.... I just hope that reasonable solutions are found that do not alienate segments of the population. I don't mind paying for my privlages, but I also believe there are privliages that should not be over priced.....and when the cost of having something gets to a point where the majority can't afford it then it is over priced......I have no issues and can afford things, but I hate watching my nieghbors loose what they have had for a life time.

[This'nThat]

Originally Posted by TomC

State ranks are shown for absolute dollars (NH ranked 2nd highest), % of property value (NH ranked 5th highest), and % of owner's income (NH ranked 2nd highest).

Of course other taxes don't exist (Sales/income) in NH, so in fairness total tax burden should be assessed. ..

The link you originally posted does rank the total tax burden by state. NH ranks 39th out of 50. Who's ahead of NH? States like Oklahoma, Mississippi, Arkansas, Alabama, Alaska, one of the Dakotas, Idaho, and Tennesee. In all, not a very attractive list of alternatives if you want lower, overall taxes.

[trfour]

When your out on the road, keep your ears on, top up, be safe and happy motoring out there. I for one, enjoy your sense of humor and commentary here. Those ten speed roadrangers are a piece o cake one'st ya get the hang on 'em!

[SteveA]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

I saw some one make a post about Taxes in Alaska and this thread had me doing some research at one point.... And let me tell that all though the Tax set up appears to be the same in Alaska as it is in NH, it is not. All the towns in Alaska have there own little tax schemes, beyond Property Tax.... I found istances of Local liqour, sales, and room and board taxes. These where not states taxes they where individual city and town taxes that varied by quite a bit......I am not completely sure of this one, but I believe I even saw a town with a local income tax..

Alaska is indeed unusual.. Not only do they not have a sales or income tax , They have a Permanent Trust Fund that pays every man women and child that has been a resident for 1 year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Permanent_Fund

(see the 3rd paragraph of the wikipedia article)

I know this for sure because my sister from Fairbanks calls and tells me all about it ! I'm going to have to email her and find out the other local taxes they might have.

In 2005 I think each person got a check for over $1,600.

[nj2nh]

I just can't win. I grew up in Massachusetts where my parents still live. I live in NJ and own a very modest home and pay $13000 for the privilege of rear yard trash collection and mediocre public schools (which are still way better than many if not most in the state so I ain't complaining). My parents own two homes in NH and I hope to move there the day after my youngest graduates from high school in June, 2014.

Screwed on every front. But, if I do move, at least I won't be paying taxes in Jersey anymore. Somehow the thought of paying them in NH doesn't seem quite so painful. After all, it is heaven here on earth, right?

Jersey Girl

[vrrooom]

Jersey Girl

Dont give up your plans, I am currently in my shelter in Franklin Lakes, note it is not my legal residence and I am limited to how much time I can be here without meeting the NJ income tax man. Taxes here on a 60 year old cape are almost $11 K. And if I were to sell it, it would be a tear down and replaced by a McMansion. Everone arround here is excited because a new report lists the average annual family income in this town, #2 in NJ, at $585 K
Taxes on my home in Gilford are no more as a % of true market value than my other shelters (NJ, and WI). When you move to NH hopefully we can get some controls on local spending which drive local taxes up.

[ghfromaltonbay]

I'm in a 65 year old cape in Clifton and pay $6000 taxes per year. At least in Franklin Lakes you have a decent school system and quieter neighborhoods. Not to mention you're a lot closer to Abma's. All those tax dollars and we saw the plow exactly once on Wed. -- and that was after 9:30 pm. My street is a mess.

[fatlazyless]

Hey JeffK, in your post #11, you mention that NH has no estate tax however I think there is an exception. A NH state tax of 18% gets applied to any part of an estate that is passed to someone other than a spouse or offspring. 18%....ugh! That's just as achaic as our property tax.

[fatlazyless]

...from today's Feb 16 Laconia Citizen, letters to the editor.
................................................

Let's let the elderly live in peace

A few years ago when I was a selectman, the town of Ashland called in an elderly man because he could not pay his property taxes. This man was in his late 80's and was proud. He had worked hard all his life. The town had worked out an agreement to take monthly payments but he had missed a few. He explained that his only income was Social Security and after he made these tax payments he was left with only $50 a month to live on. He said he had tried to find work, but because of his age, no one would hire him. He did have one job, but his car kept breaking down and he could not afford the repairs and the gas. The then Chairman of the Select Board, told him if he did not catch up on his taxes, the town would take his property. At this point the man broke down and started crying. I was heart broken and suggested to the other two selectmen to forgive his taxes. They and the town administrator said no. I was out-voted again.
Eventually, a few months later, he sold his house at a loss. After that, he lived in his car, with his dog, for several months with no relatives or a place to go.
This is what these tax increases every year are doing to the working poor and elderly. I urge the taxpayers of New Hampton to vote "NO' on the budget and other wasteful spending. Let's let the elderly live in town after paying taxes all their lives.

Fred Avery
Ashland
.................................................

How many of New Hampshire's elderly have to live in their cars on a freezing cold winter's night like tonight while our Senator Judd "Easy-Money" Gregg can win over 800 thousand lottery dollars and then get to pay ZERO in NH taxes? Do you think Senator "Easy-Money" is sleeping out in a car tonight?

[Irish mist]

Fatlayzless's information on the 18% estate tax is out of date. That law was struck from the books several years ago......there is NO NH estate tax at all as of 2007. Of course there is still a federal estate tax.
________
ESSENTIAL VAAAPP VAPORIZER

[jeffk]

This is a very sad story but you will find many like it (No food, no heat, no house, 5 kids to feed, no car ) in every state in the US. I doubt the old man's property tax was large. The reality was he probably couldn't afford any property tax bill. Any government needs to make accommodations for those in dire straights. The failure here, and I think that NH is pretty harsh in this regard, is that there is little flexibility to handle situations like this. If you live in NH you better be pretty self reliant. However, there is a caution as well. I have heard many sad stories about people unable to make ends meet for one reason or another and it bothers me a lot. Many times I have helped where I could. But too many times I have also found out that the problems that the people faced were of their own making or they were unwilling to make sacrifices necessary to make things work out. This is where welfare lead us, we felt bad so we tried to help everybody by taking people's money in taxes and redirecting it to those we felt were in need. The problem was that we made it too easy to live on welfare and the system became a nightmare. In this particular case maybe something needed to be done to help.

As for Senator Gregg, he played the lottery like millions do and was lucky. He paid the taxes he owed and like all other NH winners paid nothing to the state. If your argument is that all lottery winners should pay some NH tax, that's a point to discuss. If your argument is that only poor people should be able to win the lottery that's hogwash. I don't see a connection between the old man and Senator Gregg's winnings. By your logic, all lottery winnings should be confiscated to pay for welfare needs because all lottery wins are "easy money". I don't think many people would play the lottery under those rules.

[fatlazyless]

My argument with the good senator is not that he played and beat the long odds and won the Powerball. Good for Senator Gregg, I wish him well and all other lottery winners. My argument is that the NH tax system will tax people, like the elderly and others, who have no income but still have to pay a tax that gets bigger every year. An income tax is a more fair way for the state to go than its' cuurrent local property tax method. Lottery winners should be taxed as part of the same income tax system. Do they have the ability to pay? Yes, they do.

What other state uses a local property tax to pay for 14 different county level nursing homes, court houses, prisons and more and has 14 different administration systems and not just one. One state income tax would be equal all across the state and could be applied to incomes and pensions.

Property values are way up and so is the median age of the state's population so where is our current system going...?
.................................................


She's back! Arnie Arnesan, NH's best talker, is back starting tomorrow ,Sundays, for one hour from 11-12 on the television, WZMY-TV with interviews and talk. Gov Bill Richardson, Fergus Cullen, NH-GOP rah-rah guy, and others are on tomorrow.

www.politicalchowder.com

I want to hear her rapid-fire Brooklyn voice on the FM-radio as I'm cruising down Rt 93 in my 18-wheeler......10-4.....Arnie.......hooonk!

[ITD]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

My argument with the good senator is not that he played and beat the long odds and won the Powerball. Good for Senator Gregg, I wish him well and all other lottery winners. My argument is that the NH tax system will tax people, like the elderly and others, who have no income but still have to pay a tax that gets bigger every year. An income tax is a more fair way for the state to go than its' cuurrent local property tax method. Lottery winners should be taxed as part of the same income tax system. Do they have the ability to pay? Yes, they do.

What other state uses a local property tax to pay for 14 different county level nursing homes, court houses, prisons and more and has 14 different administration systems and not just one. One state income tax would be equal all across the state and could be applied to incomes and pensions.

Property values are way up and so is the median age of the state's population so where is our current system going...?
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Hmmmmm, interesting points, so if I follow your logic, fair means that you only pay taxes if you have a job, or are able to pay. What if I don't have a job but do have some income, but have many bills for things such as cable tv, thursday night bingo, eating out every tuesday and friday night, spend 3 months down in Florida and want to be a hero and leave a sizeable inheritance to my kids. I can afford all this other stuff but not my taxes, under your rule I don't have to pay anything, how is that fair?

If you think another tax is going to reduce your burden, you may be suffering from white line fever. The politicians are frothing at the mouth to spend more money.

Look at my wonderful home state of Massachusetts, our newly elected governor, elected by a landslide on the promise of 1000 new cops and reducing or eliminating property tax has now declared that he can't do these things because of a 1 billion dollar (his estimate) deficit. Of course this is after he reinstated $400 million in cuts his predecessor had made for things such as a new stone wall for a guy in Lowell.

Now this charmer has junked his state Crown Victoria for a new state Cadillac that he just leased for $1,166 a month AND he just hired one of his campaign chiefs as a "social" secretary for his wife to the tune of $72,000 per year. This guy is one of your beloved Democrats.

Keep pushing Less, you'll get what you want and pay more than ever.

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

My argument is that the NH tax system will tax people, like the elderly and others, who have no income but still have to pay a tax that gets bigger every year. An income tax is a more fair way for the state to go than its' cuurrent local property tax method.

So if my wife and I are retired and have a $2,000,000 lakefront house and $2,000,000 in investments structured to generate a minimum of yearly income, say $30,000, I would pay the same state income tax as a young couple with a child who rent and have no assets and where the husband works odd jobs and earns $30,000 a year? Sounds fair to me.

So I have lived in NH all my life and paid no income or sales tax to the state. My father, also a NH native, died 20 years ago and left me his $100,000 estate (his house) which I paid nothing to the state for and which is now worth $300,000. Years ago I also bought a modest vacation home in the mountains that is now worth $400,000. Now that I am retiring I would like to see the rules of the game switched around. Since I am now making little to no income you can tax me on that and since I have property accumulated over both my and my father's lifetime (usually described as "wealth") I don't want you to tax me on that. Sounds fair to me.

[vrrooom]

Great discussion, but there is one thing that our income tax proponents never mention. If NH instituted a income tax, the legislation would give NH residents who work in Mass and Maine credit for the tax they pay where they work. Prehaps 1/2 of the working residents of this state work in these other states, so what happens. The NH people who live in the central and northern parts of the state will pay all of the tax burden of the state. You don't think so, well look at the tax laws in states with income taxes, they all give credit for taxes paid in other ajoining states. Another interesting point is that with out credit for income taxes paid to ajoining states, what chance do we think an income tax has of passage in the southern NH. We would be adding 2-5% to the income taxes they already pay to Mass.

That government which governs least, governs best (and taxes least).

[phoenix]

that is why in the end i think the state will look to sin taxes like smoking, gambling( casino's) etc. to raise revenue. There will unlikely be a sales or income tax during this session

[jrc]

Originally Posted by jeffk

....Sounds fair to me. ..... Sounds fair to me.

The only fair tax is the one that taxes someone else

[fatlazyless]

Yes, that's what I read, the NH House of Reps has like four different slots-casino-gambling bills either in the on-deck circle or still in the dugout. You know that open field just south of the FunSpot where there used to be elephant rides. Well now, just wouldn't that be a terrific spot for a casino managed and run by the local indiginous Schwinnipesaukkeehock tribe ancestors. As long as they can document their authenticity. No phoney Schwinnipesaukkeehocks will be hired!

I can barely wait, I'm going to the Weirs and win big!