Moultonborough taxes and schools

[mishman]

There is an important meeting tonight (Wednesday, Sept 9 at 6:30 p.m.) at the Moultonborough Academy (high school) cafeteria to hear a presentation on the changing demographics occurring throughout NH and in Moultonborough. The importance of this is that with a declining school population, towns are needing to think more creatively about staffing for the smaller school population. There is resistance from some (most especially parents with kids in the schools) to adjusting staffing to face this new reality. Not surprisingly, these parents turn out for the meetings. It is very important for other taxpayers to attend so that the school board does not feel pressure to cater to only parents of school age children and not take into account the needs of all taxpayers.

This is not to say one group is right and another is wrong, it's just that the reality of the situation of declining school age population forces a new reality on how to staff our schools. Please show up to learn more about this important trend so you can be well informed. After all, it is your tax dollars who pay for school staffing. Thanks

[HomeWood]

What an interesting issue. Our schools here in our area of NC are terribly overcrowded. If I understand you correctly, there are less students? Any reason why? NH is a senior or retirement state, is it not? It's where we will retire. Heck, if both of us (wife and I) could find comparable jobs to what we have here in NC we would relocate to the lakes region tomorrow. I just cannot find any way to do it.

[jbolty]

If only there was a regional high school. Maybe it could be located in Wolfboro and the surrounding towns could contribute. Just an idea.

[MeredithMan]

Student population projection studies need to be scrutinized very closely and a lot of questions need to be asked. When we lived in Ridgefield, CT, just a couple years ago, there were 6 elementaries, feeding 2 middles, feeding the 1 HS. For several years, there was active debate and outside consultants hired who projected that the elementary school population was going to decline, and therefore, 1 of the elementary schools should be closed and students be re-assigned. This caused a tremendous uproar in the town.

After a couple years of consultants studies, the town was on the verge of shutting down 1 of the elementary schools, when low and behold, the number of elementary students suddenly surged. Residents were furious that the consultants could be so far off in their projections. The student population projection studies were tossed and all 6 elementary schools remained open.

[dave603]

And after this last winter there will be another jump in the number of first graders. then they'll have to re-figure all over again.

[mishman]

just got an auto call - meeting cancelled, moved to oct

[Acrossamerica]

Originally Posted by jbolty

If only there was a regional high school. Maybe it could be located in Wolfboro and the surrounding towns could contribute. Just an idea.

Thee is an excellent regional HS in Wolfeboro. It is called Kingswood Regional. Maybe Moultonborough should think about applying.

[Not to Worry]

The ability the schools have to organize and get out the vote will always win over any taxpayer concern. Least that is my 2 cents based on past experience in different NH town(s).

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Acrossamerica

Thee is an excellent regional HS in Wolfeboro. It is called Kingswood Regional. Maybe Moultonborough should think about applying.

Yeah just ask the tax payers in New Durham about that. They are getting porked by Wolfeboro to send their students there.

[wifi]

Originally Posted by Acrossamerica

Thee is an excellent regional HS in Wolfeboro. It is called Kingswood Regional. Maybe Moultonborough should think about applying.

Well, you have to go back into history. 40 years ago, Moultonboro DID go to Kingswood. The trip was well over an hour for students, one way. I know too well. If you lived on the neck it was more than 90 mins, with all the school bus stops. Moultonboro then, was a uplooking community, with almost infinite, forward looking, tax base, so the town voted to split off. They paid off all the bonds owed to Kingswood, took years, and started their own, independent school system.

So, now, we have too much facility. It is what I have been complaining about with overspending with town government, all of us tax payers will end up paying off the bonds, regardless of who is left in town to pay the taxes. Schools aren't an accordion, and it will always hard to balance growth vs contraction.

We, as a country, are seeing a massive influx of families over the southern border. Now the federal government wants to welcome all the refugees from the middle east. All of these people prefer the warm climates, where they have their citizenship. I would predict the southern states will be flooded and the extreme northern states, like NH, will be relatively free from this influx.

Planning is hard in any school district, with many things being unpredictable from 10 years before. I don't see the advantage to scrapping the school building in M'boro to go to Kingswood, to only replay history.

[Acrossamerica]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Yeah just ask the tax payers in New Durham about that. They are getting porked by Wolfeboro to send their students there.

So now you think Kingswood should simply offer the school up for free? Amazing level of thought. Maybe New Durham and Moultonboro should get a tax base then they wouldn't have the problem but so far both towns have decided to put all of the burden on the homeowner.

No sympathy from this camp.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by mishman

There is an important meeting tonight (Wednesday, Sept 9 at 6:30 p.m.) at the Moultonborough Academy (high school) cafeteria to hear a presentation on the changing demographics occurring throughout NH and in Moultonborough. The importance of this is that with a declining school population, towns are needing to think more creatively about staffing for the smaller school population. There is resistance from some (most especially parents with kids in the schools) to adjusting staffing to face this new reality. Not surprisingly, these parents turn out for the meetings. It is very important for other taxpayers to attend so that the school board does not feel pressure to cater to only parents of school age children and not take into account the needs of all taxpayers.

This is not to say one group is right and another is wrong, it's just that the reality of the situation of declining school age population forces a new reality on how to staff our schools. Please show up to learn more about this important trend so you can be well informed. After all, it is your tax dollars who pay for school staffing. Thanks

The much greater issue is the demands the aging baby boom generation will place on the younger generation in our country. We probably should invest heavily in our schools because there will be a tremendous need for smart people to help figure out the baby boom bust. It isn't going to be pretty.

[SAB1]

Very true second curve. That amount of debt the government has gotten us into will definitely need creative minds.......

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Acrossamerica

So now you think Kingswood should simply offer the school up for free? Amazing level of thought. Maybe New Durham and Moultonboro should get a tax base then they wouldn't have the problem but so far both towns have decided to put all of the burden on the homeowner.

No sympathy from this camp.

I cant speak to New Durham, but perhaps you should do some research before discussing tax bases and sympathy for Moultonborough residents. Our tax base is extremely high due in large part to having the most waterfront of any community in NH. Because of that our taxes are low, extremely so, compared to our neighbors in Meredith and Wolfeboro.

The town is trying to be somewhat forward thinking in addressing a contraction in school age children. My daughter will graduate this year from Moultonborough Academy and my son already has so I will have no real skin in the school game, however, I will support the current two school building system.

You don't just "get a tax base", you develop one. We live in a tourist area in a tourism driven state. We have avoided big box stores and the like for now, but if that is your idea of a tax base, you can keep it! We have some great businesses in town like Cru-Con and would welcome some more clean businesses.

Money is not an issue in Moultonborough.

[mcdude]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Yeah just ask the tax payers in New Durham about that. They are getting porked by Wolfeboro to send their students there.

Did New Durham ever consider joining up with Prospect Mountain Regional when this district was being formed?

[tis]

Wifi, you lose track of time! FIFTY years ago! 1965!

I thought New Durham was part of the GWRSD? Why are they getting porked?

I think Moultonboro's taxes are lower than even Tuftonboro's aren't they? I didn't look but you can easily enough.

Now, the schools and towns aren't the only ones out of control. Carroll County just passed a big budget increase so the county is on the move as far as taxes, too.

I don't know if people with kids are moving south. I don't know where they are moving. I know parts of Florida were talking about closing schools too because of less kids. But of course the parents fight it because they want their kids to stay in the school they are in. I do know we just sold a house in Maine mostly due to taxes and four others on our street did the same. I am afraid that is going to start to happen everywhere if this trend continues. Off soapbox.

[songkrai]

It’s time for the taxpayers of Moultonborough to seriously consider the selling and closing of the elementary school located on Whittier Highway (Route 25).
Place the elementary students to the back school – the current high school.
Tuition out the high school students to Kingswood in Wolfeboro or Lakes Region in Meredith.
There is just not enough students to justify the large staff and ancillary staff to justify a full high school. Enrollment trends are declining and nothing seems to be stopping this decline.
Strict and ever expanding zoning prevents any kind of workplace and/or affordable housing to be constructed in Moultonborough in the short term or long term.
The last two applications to construct new businesses in Moultonborough have been denied and/or delayed. Yes, Crucon is an exception. But how many new businesses can afford that type of buildings?
The town population is declining. The town population is aging with Moultonborough a retirement destination.

People should become informed as to what is happening in New Hampshire and Moultonborough specifically.

Read up on this article and this study.


“The experience of the Moultonborough School District, Joyce said, mirrors these statewide trends. Enrollment fell from 651 in the 2006-2007 school year to 529 in 2013-2014, a decrease of nearly 19-percent, matching the rate of decrease in the town's population from 4,960 to 4,078. As a share of the town's total population, school enrollment has shrunk from 23-percent in 1995 to 13-percent in 2013.”

LINK

Also, read the study done by Kenneth Johnson titled:

New Hampshire Demographic Trends in the Twenty-First Century

Do an internet search for this study as it is in pdf format.

[phoenix]

I agree with you and dont see any change in enrollment for the town other than going lower. One problem is a large number of taxpayers ( me included) cant vote as we are summer residents. What you suggest is likely needed but would require the full time residents to vote to agree. I am not confident that will happen

[rsmlp]

Interesting stuff. As a Moultonboro resident and lakefront owner (higher taxes) this affects me directly. I can't complain too much as my property taxes hav decreased twice over last three years. That said, as demographics change so should school policy. A much larger issue in Moultonboro is the ridiculously huge size of the police force. Something like ten full time officers for a 3,000 full time resident community with basically NO crime. What's a CRIME is how they get away with such an egregiously over sized force.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by rsmlp

Interesting stuff. As a Moultonboro resident and lakefront owner (higher taxes) this affects me directly. I can't complain too much as my property taxes hav decreased twice over last three years. That said, as demographics change so should school policy. A much larger issue in Moultonboro is the ridiculously huge size of the police force. Something like ten full time officers for a 3,000 full time resident community with basically NO crime. What's a CRIME is how they get away with such an egregiously over sized force.

You know, 10 doesn't sound like that large a number. To cover a week full time you need a little over 4 working 40 hour shifts, that would be 1 per 8 hour shift just considering 40 hours a week. Ten works out to a little bit more than 2 per shift.

[thinkxingu]

And maybe there's less crime because there's visible police? I know where we live experienced a period of break-ins that was remedied quickly

Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk

[DesertDweller]

I looked up the cost per student in the school district and there's no getting around it being off the charts. Without increases in enrollment, which don't sound likely, it's only going to get worse. My parents had a vacation home on one of the coastal towns in New Jersey and they went through the same thing. They ended up consolidating the schools and spreading them out among the towns. Certainly not the greatest arrangement for the kids but it seems to work. In terms of the police force, if you think 10 is big, in the town my parents were in they had over 30 officers for a town that was basically a ghost town other than between Memorial Day and Labor Day.

[rsmlp]

Originally Posted by ITD

You know, 10 doesn't sound like that large a number. To cover a week full time you need a little over 4 working 40 hour shifts, that would be 1 per 8 hour shift just considering 40 hours a week. Ten works out to a little bit more than 2 per shift.

Seriously? For a town of 3,000 with NO crime? How many full time cops in like kind populated towns?

[ITD]

Originally Posted by rsmlp

Seriously? For a town of 3,000 with NO crime? How many full time cops in like kind populated towns?

Just doing the math unless you want periods of time when no cops are working, 10 seems to be the number you need for coverage.

[Redwing]

Moultonborough has more police officers than many urban areas -including that of my hometown (city) in Connecticut. Hmmmmmm-----

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by rsmlp

Seriously? For a town of 3,000 with NO crime? How many full time cops in like kind populated towns?

The Moultonborough 2013 Census counted 4,049 town citizens and there are about 4000 properties. The people count swells well beyond 10,000 over summer weekends. Scheduling LEO must be tough with such variations. Good thing there are few problems.

Week of September 8'th police log: The Moultonborough Police Department recorded 481 log entries, which included the following calls for service: 55 motor vehicle stops, 9 assists to Fire/EMS, 0 Directed Patrols, 1 arrest, 8 complaints, 3 MV Accidents, 8 MV Complaints, 5 residential alarms, 1 commercial alarm and 5 K-9 complaints

[secondcurve]

Doesn't Moultonborough have like the 5th lowest property tax burden of the approximately 140 cities and towns in NH? Further, doesn't NH have one of the lower tax overall tax structures of the 50-states? I don't have enough information on the schools to weigh in but it seems the folks in Moultonborough are in pretty good shape with respect to taxes. I suppose it could get better but I wouldn't complain too loudly.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

Doesn't Moultonborough have like the 5th lowest property tax burden of the approximately 140 cities and towns in NH? Further, doesn't NH have one of the lower tax overall tax structures of the 50-states? I don't have enough information on the schools to weigh in but it seems the folks in Moultonborough are in pretty good shape with respect to taxes. I suppose it could get better but I wouldn't complain too loudly.

Correct, our taxes are very reasonable in town.

Regarding police coverage, it easily takes 30 minutes to go from suissevale to Long Island bridge.

[ARV]

Originally Posted by songkrai

It’s time for the taxpayers of Moultonborough to seriously consider the selling and closing of the elementary school located on Whittier Highway (Route 25).
Place the elementary students to the back school – the current high school.
Tuition out the high school students to Kingswood in Wolfeboro or Lakes Region in Meredith.
There is just not enough students to justify the large staff and ancillary staff to justify a full high school. Enrollment trends are declining and nothing seems to be stopping this decline.

First, with this plan, whom is going to pay for the children to attend schools out of our district? Whom will pay for the bus company to bring the children (some) close to an hour away from their homes (and the gas, and the salary of the bus drivers who will be working longer hours and for the increase maintenance of the buses)? You complain about taxes now? Oh boy!!

Second, have you seen how much commercial real estate is for sale in town? How it's just sitting on the market? To try to sell the central school is downright impossible right now!!

Third, there has been no mention of the loss of jobs of all the fine educators we have in this town.

My opinion is if you want the town to go back to the way it was 50 years ago, enjoy your memories of that time, but let others make the decisions to move this town forward.

[wifi]

How about this from a far out capitalistic view point.

Try to get Sandwich or give their families a choice of going to M'boro or Interlakes. Get the two SAU's in competition for a lower per student cost vs trying to use up their budget for a larger one next year.

I know, there are a million reasons it won't work, but it was a nice thought while it lasted.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by wifi

How about this from a far out capitalistic view point.

Try to get Sandwich or give their families a choice of going to M'boro or Interlakes. Get the two SAU's in competition for a lower per student cost vs trying to use up their budget for a larger one next year.

I know, there are a million reasons it won't work, but it was a nice thought while it lasted.

Creative. I like it.

[songkrai]

Originally Posted by ARV

First, with this plan, whom is going to pay for the children to attend schools out of our district? Whom will pay for the bus company to bring the children (some) close to an hour away from their homes (and the gas, and the salary of the bus drivers who will be working longer hours and for the increase maintenance of the buses)? You complain about taxes now? Oh boy!!

Moultonborough already busses students. The increase cost would be minimal.
The high school students would be tuition out. For a sizeable savings.

It's not rocket science.

[knittaplz]

Originally Posted by jbolty

If only there was a regional high school. Maybe it could be located in Wolfboro and the surrounding towns could contribute. Just an idea.

Do you have any idea what it was like back when MBoro kids went to Kingswood. JFC these kids were up at a ridiculous hour of the morning, the ride was extremely long and they got back very late in the evening. Hardly an environment that is conducive to learning.

Having our own school is well worth the money for the kids. And no, I do not have any kids in the system.

[knittaplz]

Originally Posted by Acrossamerica

Thee is an excellent regional HS in Wolfeboro. It is called Kingswood Regional. Maybe Moultonborough should think about applying.

We did this before. It was very difficult for the kids due to the distance away.

[jbolty]

Originally Posted by knittaplz

Do you have any idea what it was like back when MBoro kids went to Kingswood. JFC these kids were up at a ridiculous hour of the morning, the ride was extremely long and they got back very late in the evening. Hardly an environment that is conducive to learning.

Having our own school is well worth the money for the kids. And no, I do not have any kids in the system.

I was one of them; 30+ miles each way from way up Bean Road. We did just fine.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by jbolty

I was one of them; 30+ miles each way from way up Bean Road. We did just fine.

Perhaps, but we have a school now, a really nice one at that. Our taxes are low and our kids don't have to waste a minimum of 6 extra hours a week commuting to school. Gas was a lot cheaper back then as well.

My daughter graduates this year, so I have no skin in this argument that way.

[ITD]

I don't understand the call to go to regionalization. The school buildings are built, setting up with another district would be expensive and transportation is expensive. Bringing other districts into Moultonboro would max out buildings requiring new construction.

The biggest expense of a district is personnel. Strong managers are required to make sure money isn't wasted. It's a fine line, spending too much on staff is easy to do and doesn't improve results. Paying too little drives good teachers away and results suffer. It's always a problem and adding more towns to the mix doesn't make it easier.

[jbolty]

I'm not campaigning to start going back to Kingswood. It's just that populations grow and shrink in waves and for some period, like now, there are very few kids at the school resulting in a high cost to keep it open. Drawing from a larger geographic area can smooth that out a little.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by jbolty

I'm not campaigning to start going back to Kingswood. It's just that populations grow and shrink in waves and for some period, like now, there are very few kids at the school resulting in a high cost to keep it open. Drawing from a larger geographic area can smooth that out a little.

I would love to see Sandwich kids come here- I would say it is a better ride for them as opposed to Meredith as well!