Credit Card Fraud

twins · 11-25-2012, 10:22 PM

My wife and I recently had fraudulent charges put on both our credit cards. Visa determined the dates the numbers were stolen, hers in early July and mine mid August. We used the cards at the Town Docks restaurant in Meredith on both those days. Either someone put a scanner on their credit card machine or an employee stole and sold the numbers.

If you used your card there over the summer, keep an eye on your charges.

Since the dates were over a month apart, they must have gotten a lot of numbers.

dpg · 11-26-2012, 07:27 AM

If you use your card all the time or fairly regular how can they determine when the numbers were taken months later? Doesn't make any sense. They know someone didn't copy the numbers three weeks ago? Again just doesn't sound right I've never heard of that. Also if numbers had been taken (has happened to me) people usually make a quick hit on the card right away.

brk-lnt · 11-26-2012, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpg

If you use your card all the time or fairly regular how can they determine when the numbers were taken months later? Doesn't make any sense. They know someone didn't copy the numbers three weeks ago? Again just doesn't sound right I've never heard of that. Also if numbers had been taken (has happened to me) people usually make a quick hit on the card right away.

Because the sample set is most likely not just these two cards.

If it was a lower-class CC theft ring, many of the numbers were sold to a single perso/group, or a relatively small group of people. They'll often use similar methods to first validate the cards with test charges (a small online purchase or donation, write the numbers to an old card (mag stripe reader/writers are cheap) and buy some gas, etc.). After the cards are verified, the thieves will frequently make multiple purchases of high value items that are easy to resell (iPads, etc.).

The credit card company is most likely looking at a dataset where the fraudulent charges have a lot in common across multiple cards, and then they trace those cards back to look for common establishments where ALL the cards were used. You tend to end up with a pretty narrowly defined set of merchants that all those card holders would have shopped at. Then you look for cases where number skimming of various sorts is easy to do. Restaurants are the most common culprit by far. Grocery stores almost never, small boutique stores almost never, gas stations possibly (though skimmers on gas pumps are pretty rare).

So, nothing against Town Docks, but it fits the profile...

NBR · 11-26-2012, 08:26 AM

I have had a credit card violated twice. Both times a copy of the card was made and used for fuel far from where we live or travel. The perps who commit these crimes are pretty knowledgeable. Unless you never used the card anywhere else I think singling out the "Town Docks" was a bit of a knee jerk reaction.

jsn · 11-26-2012, 11:15 AM

Twins, Thank you for the heads up @ your credit cards. I will closely examine my hubby's records. We were at the mentioned establishment a few times this summer and I remember exactly when, so this will help in my check. I had my credit card numbers stolen two years ago and never let the card out of my hands. Bank of America believed it to be hackers. My daughter had her numbers stolen and it was believed that her numbers were hacked from Live Nation when she bought concert tickets. Again, thanks for looking out for others.

Sunbeam lodge · 11-26-2012, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsn

Twins, Thank you for the heads up @ your credit cards. I will closely examine my hubby's records. We were at the mentioned establishment a few times this summer and I remember exactly when, so this will help in my check. I had my credit card numbers stolen two years ago and never let the card out of my hands. Bank of America believed it to be hackers. My daughter had her numbers stolen and it was believed that her numbers were hacked from Live Nation when she bought concert tickets. Again, thanks for looking out for others.

This happened to me. I was notified by the CC company of gasoline purchases in the Chicago area. The first one was small to make sure the card worked and then much larger frequent purchases on the same day which indicated that they passed the card around to friends or relatives.
The credit card stopped the charges and gave me a credit. It seems like an easy way to steal by using the card at a gas station. If that was a local station it probably would have gone unnoticed. My wife still had her card so they must have duplicated it somehow,

Tagdot · 11-26-2012, 06:00 PM

I ate there several times over the summer and never had a problem.

twins · 11-27-2012, 06:41 PM

I'm not an expert on the security CC companies use, but it doesn't seem too difficult to imagine they would have a way of tagging the cards with tracking data each time you swipe it so that if the magnetic strip is copied, they could track it. The company knew exactly when the cards were copied. I pictured a server swiping the card on their own device and then using the restaurants swiper.. They copy the magnetic strip, make new cards from blanks and then sell them all over the world. Make them all summer.

dpg · 11-28-2012, 07:05 AM

They (credit cards) don't do the vigilant following up on these charges most people think they do. Today most stores have cameras all around registers recording a lot. They consider it a cost of doing business unfortunately it's cheaper sometimes to write something off than bother persuing the culprits. That's why they're so quick to write off charges.

Mink Islander · 11-28-2012, 09:28 AM

You will also find the ccard companies are much more diligent about frequent same day, unusual charges. AMEX is particularly quick to notify us of unusual activity and have us confirm the charges. Can be a bit of a hassle, but it's a big part of their management of fraudulent charges.

brk-lnt · 11-28-2012, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twins

I'm not an expert on the security CC companies use, but it doesn't seem too difficult to imagine they would have a way of tagging the cards with tracking data each time you swipe it so that if the magnetic strip is copied, they could track it. The company knew exactly when the cards were copied. I pictured a server swiping the card on their own device and then using the restaurants swiper.. They copy the magnetic strip, make new cards from blanks and then sell them all over the world. Make them all summer.

When you swipe your card, that is a completely passive action. Standard card readers do not have any ability to write data back to the card. Additionally the cards don't really have a lot of storage room for additional things like when/where the card was used.

There is no practical way to know when or if card data has been copied. All you can do is correlate fraudulent charges after the fact back to one or more merchants that the affected cards had in common.

Just Sold · 11-28-2012, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpg

Today most stores have cameras all around registers recording a lot. They consider it a cost of doing business unfortunately it's cheaper sometimes to write something off than bother persuing the culprits. That's why they're so quick to write off charges.

Cameras are only as good as what you buy and where they are located. I helped my son install 10 cameras at a major book retailer a few years ago. Before we came they had only one working camera at the registers and you could not tell the identity of anyone who was at the regisiters - it had very poor picture quality. Before we installed the new cameras they had 8 fakes in various locations and had an annual product theft loss estimated at $150K in a smaller city outside of NH. Any cameras you see in a store are only a deterent to theft and not an answer to the problem.

Lakesrider · 12-03-2012, 02:39 PM

Do not use $10,000 credit limit cards in places you are not positive are reputable. Always use cards with a low limit. This Friday I fly to Kauai for a friends wedding. I am only taking my $1500.00 limit cards with me, and I have notified my banks that I will be traveling, and they will monitor them for me. It's just what I do.....

jrc · 12-03-2012, 03:26 PM

Given the greater protection afforded credit cards over debit cards, I favor credit cards. Large chain based gas stations and retailers are safe with a debit card. All small places and all restaurants get credit cards.

I'm not sure why the credit limit is an issue, you're only responsible for $50 on credit card fraud.

brk-lnt · 12-04-2012, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakesrider

Do not use $10,000 credit limit cards in places you are not positive are reputable. Always use cards with a low limit. This Friday I fly to Kauai for a friends wedding. I am only taking my $1500.00 limit cards with me, and I have notified my banks that I will be traveling, and they will monitor them for me. It's just what I do.....

Why? It's not like you end up personably liable for fraudulent charges?

Besides, I have 2 credit cards. One for business expenses, one for household. Not sure why you'd want to have a "selection" of cards to choose from.

Not to mention, $1500 doesn't go that far in Hawaii

HellRaZoR004 · 12-04-2012, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

Why? It's not like you end up personably liable for fraudulent charges?

Besides, I have 2 credit cards. One for business expenses, one for household. Not sure why you'd want to have a "selection" of cards to choose from.

Not to mention, $1500 doesn't go that far in Hawaii

I would like to have a high limit card with me in the chance something were to happen..

granted I think laws have changed where credit card companies can't decline you for going over a specified limit. There may be fees associated though.

KBoater · 12-04-2012, 07:54 PM

Last week I got a call from DiscoverCard asking me about some changes.It turns out that someone started charging in the Denver area. They had got into my account and changed my profile(address name etc) I usually do not charge big ticket items with that card. I used it in NH at the same time as they used it to charge $1600 $400. Discover cancelled the charges, froze the card and am giving me a new card with new numbers etc. I liked the way they handled it. They are investigating how it happened but think it was a hack into their system.

Tagdot · 12-04-2012, 08:54 PM

Guess I spoke to soon, Had $217 charged to my discover card on the 27 of November by EURO PRO OPERATING LLC. I have my account set so I get an email from Discover when my monthly total goes above 500. So as soon as this charge was made I knew and called Discover. I also called EURO PRO OPERATING LLC and was given the name and address of the person the item was shipped to in Appalachian ,NY. Funny they charged the item the day after my November bill was due.

moose tracks · 12-06-2012, 12:11 AM

I recently learned of another way credit card information is stolen without ever leaving your wallet.
http://www.aarp.org/money/scams-frau...pocketing.html

11-25-2012, 10:22 PM	#1
twins Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Gem Island/St Petersburg FL Posts: 33 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Credit Card Fraud My wife and I recently had fraudulent charges put on both our credit cards. Visa determined the dates the numbers were stolen, hers in early July and mine mid August. We used the cards at the Town Docks restaurant in Meredith on both those days. Either someone put a scanner on their credit card machine or an employee stole and sold the numbers. If you used your card there over the summer, keep an eye on your charges. Since the dates were over a month apart, they must have gotten a lot of numbers.

11-28-2012, 09:28 AM	#10
Mink Islander Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 753 Thanks: 59 Thanked 271 Times in 129 Posts	Credit Card Fraud You will also find the ccard companies are much more diligent about frequent same day, unusual charges. AMEX is particularly quick to notify us of unusual activity and have us confirm the charges. Can be a bit of a hassle, but it's a big part of their management of fraudulent charges.

12-04-2012, 07:54 PM	#17
KBoater Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Wolfeboro Posts: 521 Thanks: 10 Thanked 29 Times in 15 Posts	Happened Last week I got a call from DiscoverCard asking me about some changes.It turns out that someone started charging in the Denver area. They had got into my account and changed my profile(address name etc) I usually do not charge big ticket items with that card. I used it in NH at the same time as they used it to charge $1600 $400. Discover cancelled the charges, froze the card and am giving me a new card with new numbers etc. I liked the way they handled it. They are investigating how it happened but think it was a hack into their system. __________________ Home Permanently in NH

12-06-2012, 12:11 AM	#19
moose tracks Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Loudon, Tennessee, foothills of the Great Smoky Mountains Posts: 283 Thanks: 340 Thanked 41 Times in 33 Posts	Hands Free Pickpocketing I recently learned of another way credit card information is stolen without ever leaving your wallet. http://www.aarp.org/money/scams-frau...pocketing.html __________________ Moose Tracks

The Following User Says Thank You to twins For This Useful Post:
trfour (11-25-2012)

11-26-2012, 07:27 AM	#2
dpg Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,591 Thanks: 150 Thanked 229 Times in 166 Posts	If you use your card all the time or fairly regular how can they determine when the numbers were taken months later? Doesn't make any sense. They know someone didn't copy the numbers three weeks ago? Again just doesn't sound right I've never heard of that. Also if numbers had been taken (has happened to me) people usually make a quick hit on the card right away.

11-26-2012, 08:26 AM	#4
NBR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bristol Posts: 119 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 15 Posts	I have had a credit card violated twice. Both times a copy of the card was made and used for fuel far from where we live or travel. The perps who commit these crimes are pretty knowledgeable. Unless you never used the card anywhere else I think singling out the "Town Docks" was a bit of a knee jerk reaction.

11-26-2012, 11:15 AM	#5
jsn Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 21 Thanks: 10 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	Twins, Thank you for the heads up @ your credit cards. I will closely examine my hubby's records. We were at the mentioned establishment a few times this summer and I remember exactly when, so this will help in my check. I had my credit card numbers stolen two years ago and never let the card out of my hands. Bank of America believed it to be hackers. My daughter had her numbers stolen and it was believed that her numbers were hacked from Live Nation when she bought concert tickets. Again, thanks for looking out for others.

11-26-2012, 06:00 PM	#7
Tagdot Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Salem, Mass Posts: 26 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts	I ate there several times over the summer and never had a problem.

11-27-2012, 06:41 PM	#8
twins Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Gem Island/St Petersburg FL Posts: 33 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	I'm not an expert on the security CC companies use, but it doesn't seem too difficult to imagine they would have a way of tagging the cards with tracking data each time you swipe it so that if the magnetic strip is copied, they could track it. The company knew exactly when the cards were copied. I pictured a server swiping the card on their own device and then using the restaurants swiper.. They copy the magnetic strip, make new cards from blanks and then sell them all over the world. Make them all summer.

11-28-2012, 07:05 AM	#9
dpg Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,591 Thanks: 150 Thanked 229 Times in 166 Posts	They (credit cards) don't do the vigilant following up on these charges most people think they do. Today most stores have cameras all around registers recording a lot. They consider it a cost of doing business unfortunately it's cheaper sometimes to write something off than bother persuing the culprits. That's why they're so quick to write off charges.

The Following User Says Thank You to dpg For This Useful Post:
Sunbeam lodge (11-28-2012)

12-03-2012, 02:39 PM	#13
Lakesrider Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,129 Thanks: 380 Thanked 1,016 Times in 345 Posts	Do not use $10,000 credit limit cards in places you are not positive are reputable. Always use cards with a low limit. This Friday I fly to Kauai for a friends wedding. I am only taking my $1500.00 limit cards with me, and I have notified my banks that I will be traveling, and they will monitor them for me. It's just what I do.....

12-03-2012, 03:26 PM	#14
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	Given the greater protection afforded credit cards over debit cards, I favor credit cards. Large chain based gas stations and retailers are safe with a debit card. All small places and all restaurants get credit cards. I'm not sure why the credit limit is an issue, you're only responsible for $50 on credit card fraud.

12-04-2012, 08:54 PM	#18
Tagdot Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Salem, Mass Posts: 26 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts	Guess I spoke to soon, Had $217 charged to my discover card on the 27 of November by EURO PRO OPERATING LLC. I have my account set so I get an email from Discover when my monthly total goes above 500. So as soon as this charge was made I knew and called Discover. I also called EURO PRO OPERATING LLC and was given the name and address of the person the item was shipped to in Appalachian ,NY. Funny they charged the item the day after my November bill was due.