Tax Abatement Advice

cowislander · 05-18-2011, 10:46 AM

I recently requested, and was subsequently denied, an abatement of real-estate tax for my summer cottage. IMO Tuftonboro has valued the place at about twice what it's worth and compared to similar properties it also stands out as high. Can anyone offer advice on what the next steps are to seek appeal of the town's decision? Are there any good resources or abatement companies that have a successful track record? Any info appreciated.

codeman671 · 05-18-2011, 09:10 PM

There is a firm out of Portsmouth that solely does abatement work. We used him for our industrial building in Milton and it worked well. I will try to find the name for you.

wentworth6 · 05-19-2011, 07:45 AM

we had a similar issue in wolfeboro. petitioned tax board with sales of other homes that were hundreds of thousands less and was denied. The letter we got said also we noticed lots of improvments to your property. Basically, if you push this to the state tax board you will loose and we will come back and re do it to a higher rate. We had actual sales and were denied. A friend on parker island road did go with apprasial in hand and won. Next year they increased it even more.

Grady223 · 05-19-2011, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codeman671

There is a firm out of Portsmouth that solely does abatement work. We used him for our industrial building in Milton and it worked well. I will try to find the name for you.

We used one here in PA for our home and got a reduction - not sure if its the same in NH as you have annual re-assessments. I would think that they can just put it right back where it was the next year and you start all over again - as related by wentworth6.

Little Bear · 05-19-2011, 02:40 PM

I use Atty. Phil Broulliard of Laconia for tax abatements. He works on a contingency - 1/2 of the 1st year's tax savings if he secures a reduction. Give him a call: 524-4450. He's abating my property in Tuftonboro right now.

cowislander · 05-20-2011, 12:16 PM

Thanks for the replies. I'm getting whacked since I have several abutting lots. Strongly considering rolling it all into a single parcel. It would reduce the assessment significantly. I'll give Phil in Laconia a call to see what he thinks. Thanks for the tip!

codeman671 · 05-20-2011, 02:08 PM

Here is the info for the company that we used:

Property Tax Advisors
Christopher Snow
125 Brewery Lane #6
Portsmouth, NH 03801
603-427-1122
csnow@nhpta.com
www.nhpta.com

Grady223 · 05-20-2011, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowislander

Thanks for the replies. I'm getting whacked since I have several abutting lots. Strongly considering rolling it all into a single parcel. It would reduce the assessment significantly. I'll give Phil in Laconia a call to see what he thinks. Thanks for the tip!

Might reduce your taxes but will also reduce your resale value.

fatlazyless · 05-21-2011, 06:20 AM

Walmart has been able to appeal its' local New Hampshire prop tax and recoup $511,000 from four different NH towns, including 160,00 from the property poor town of Claremont. So, how does Walmart do it? Do they hire a lawyer who secretly kicks back half the first year's savings with the local assessor or what?

In Ashland, one of the selectmen just last month got arrested in the Plymouth Hannaford's parking lot for shop lifting a grocery cart full of groceries because he said he was low on cash. At the time he was said to say something like: "Hey, I may be broke but we still need to eat!" Someone like that would probably be an understanding and sympathetic judge when considering a local property tax appeal!

www.goodjobsfirst.org/states/new-hampshire ...a couple clicks into this website...

tis · 05-21-2011, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Walmart has been able to appeal its' local New Hampshire prop tax and recoup $511,000 from four different NH towns, including 160,00 from the property poor town of Claremont. So, how does Walmart do it? Do they hire a lawyer who secretly kicks back half the first year's savings with the local assessor or what?

In Ashland, one of the selectmen just last month got arrested in the Plymouth Hannaford's parking lot for shop lifting a grocery cart full of groceries because he said he was low on cash. At the time he was said to say something like: "Hey, I may be broke but we still need to eat!" Someone like that would probably be an understanding and sympathetic judge when considering a local property tax appeal!

www.goodjobsfirst.org/states/new-hampshire ...a couple clicks into this website...

I doubt it. That selectman would probably be the worst to grant relief. People like that want "OTHERS" to "pay their fair share". They just don't want to pay their's.

Irrigation Guy · 05-21-2011, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grady223

Might reduce your taxes but will also reduce your resale value.

I don't agree. Assessments can be all over the board and to use them as a guide for making a purchase can be a big mistake. This is why banks use an independent appraiser vs a towns assessment to determine value.

Rattlesnake Guy · 05-21-2011, 02:58 PM

Keep in mind that town taxes are a team sport. The objective is to judge all the property fairly and equally. If they drop everyone's evaluation by 20%, your tax won't go down one penny. That requires a reduction in spending or bending of your individual value. The only way to lower your individual tax is to raise everyone else to compensate. I image they get a lot of pressure to avoid that.

That said, if they screwed up in your value when compared to other's values then an adjustment makes perfectly good sense.

Unfortunately, everyone's property values dropping, has not decreased the appetite for spending.

fatlazyless · 05-21-2011, 03:06 PM

www.vnews.com/07222010/6840189.htm: A July 22, 2010, VALLEY NEWS, Lebanon-Hanover & vicinity, local NH newspaper article that speaks generally about Walmart appealing its property taxes in N.H.

TiltonBB · 05-21-2011, 04:36 PM

Several years ago I went to the town of Gilford and appealed the assessment for my lot. I first spent some time at town hall looking at every comparable property and the town's valuation of each one.

I then brought a list of comparable waterfront lots and gave it to them detailing why each one was different than mine and why my lot, in comparison to those assesments, should be valued lower. Things such as slope and buildable area are important in determining value.

In principal they agreed and they went to my lot again to have another look. They found a third dock that was legal but they hadn't been taxing me on it.

The net result was my valuation dropped by about $75,000 so it was certainly worth the effort.

tis · 05-21-2011, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

www.vnews.com/07222010/6840189.htm: A July 22, 2010, VALLEY NEWS, Lebanon-Hanover & vicinity, local NH newspaper article that speaks generally about Walmart appealing its property taxes in N.H.

Taxes in Plymouth are very high.

I agree with Local Realtor. Assessment doesn't have much to do with resale.

lawn psycho · 05-22-2011, 06:41 AM

Depending on the amount, hire an attorney. I've found that some Town Assessors almost take abatement requests personally.

When we built our current house, I found out that our assessor had been tagging along with the CEO during his final inspections of all new construction homes. I worked with the builder and put a stop to it and the assessor was miffed that they could not tag along. If the sales price and obvious age of the home were not enough they should not be assessing.

gf2020 · 05-23-2011, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowislander

I'm getting whacked since I have several abutting lots. Strongly considering rolling it all into a single parcel.

Is the assessment for just the parcel with your house reasonable to you? It's the value of the adjoining lots that is driving up your total bill? Nice problem to have!

Sell off the separate lots if you don't use the property and you no longer want to pay taxes on them.

biff · 09-13-2011, 10:17 PM

Think twice before hiring Chris Snow of Property Tax Advisors in Portsmouth.

Sanctioned by the NH BTLA in June 2011 (see http://www.nh.gov/btla/decisions/sea...-09ptorder.pdf for the entire document) because "mediation reports were not filed in a timely manner...and admitted he did not file the required mediation reports until after the board issued default orders." Eight of nine appeals were affected by his laziness.

"Mr. Snow failed to cure the noncompliance with Tax 203.07 even after issuance of each default order. The board finds the defaults in these appeals remained uncured even after Mr. Snow filed his mediation reports because they contain incomplete and misleading information and no actual settlement meeting or actual substantive compliance with Tax 203.07 was achieved."

"Upon review of these facts and the important underlying issues, the board finds the appropriate sanction is to exclude each of the appraisals Mr. Snow failed to submit to the municipalities on a timely basis and in compliance with the board’s rule..."

Once you lose your appeal, the only recourse is to wait for the next filing period and hire a competent tax representative, not just someone who thinks he is. Buyer beware.

05-18-2011, 10:46 AM	#1
cowislander Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Topsfield Posts: 57 Thanks: 5 Thanked 12 Times in 4 Posts	Tax Abatement Advice I recently requested, and was subsequently denied, an abatement of real-estate tax for my summer cottage. IMO Tuftonboro has valued the place at about twice what it's worth and compared to similar properties it also stands out as high. Can anyone offer advice on what the next steps are to seek appeal of the town's decision? Are there any good resources or abatement companies that have a successful track record? Any info appreciated.

05-19-2011, 07:45 AM	#3
wentworth6 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	wast of time we had a similar issue in wolfeboro. petitioned tax board with sales of other homes that were hundreds of thousands less and was denied. The letter we got said also we noticed lots of improvments to your property. Basically, if you push this to the state tax board you will loose and we will come back and re do it to a higher rate. We had actual sales and were denied. A friend on parker island road did go with apprasial in hand and won. Next year they increased it even more.

05-21-2011, 06:20 AM	#9
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,747 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,007 Times in 735 Posts	Walmart has been able to appeal its' local New Hampshire prop tax and recoup $511,000 from four different NH towns, including 160,00 from the property poor town of Claremont. So, how does Walmart do it? Do they hire a lawyer who secretly kicks back half the first year's savings with the local assessor or what? In Ashland, one of the selectmen just last month got arrested in the Plymouth Hannaford's parking lot for shop lifting a grocery cart full of groceries because he said he was low on cash. At the time he was said to say something like: "Hey, I may be broke but we still need to eat!" Someone like that would probably be an understanding and sympathetic judge when considering a local property tax appeal! www.goodjobsfirst.org/states/new-hampshire ...a couple clicks into this website... __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

05-21-2011, 03:06 PM	#13
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,747 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,007 Times in 735 Posts	www.vnews.com/07222010/6840189.htm: A July 22, 2010, VALLEY NEWS, Lebanon-Hanover & vicinity, local NH newspaper article that speaks generally about Walmart appealing its property taxes in N.H. __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! Last edited by fatlazyless; 05-21-2011 at 04:41 PM.

05-21-2011, 04:36 PM	#14
TiltonBB Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Gilford, NH and Florida Posts: 3,003 Thanks: 697 Thanked 2,201 Times in 935 Posts	It worked for me Several years ago I went to the town of Gilford and appealed the assessment for my lot. I first spent some time at town hall looking at every comparable property and the town's valuation of each one. I then brought a list of comparable waterfront lots and gave it to them detailing why each one was different than mine and why my lot, in comparison to those assesments, should be valued lower. Things such as slope and buildable area are important in determining value. In principal they agreed and they went to my lot again to have another look. They found a third dock that was legal but they hadn't been taxing me on it. The net result was my valuation dropped by about $75,000 so it was certainly worth the effort.

05-18-2011, 09:10 PM	#2
codeman671 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,494 Thanks: 221 Thanked 811 Times in 487 Posts	There is a firm out of Portsmouth that solely does abatement work. We used him for our industrial building in Milton and it worked well. I will try to find the name for you.

05-19-2011, 02:40 PM	#5
Little Bear Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 579 Thanks: 125 Thanked 247 Times in 133 Posts	I use Atty. Phil Broulliard of Laconia for tax abatements. He works on a contingency - 1/2 of the 1st year's tax savings if he secures a reduction. Give him a call: 524-4450. He's abating my property in Tuftonboro right now.

05-20-2011, 12:16 PM	#6
cowislander Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Topsfield Posts: 57 Thanks: 5 Thanked 12 Times in 4 Posts	Thanks for the replies. I'm getting whacked since I have several abutting lots. Strongly considering rolling it all into a single parcel. It would reduce the assessment significantly. I'll give Phil in Laconia a call to see what he thinks. Thanks for the tip!

05-20-2011, 02:08 PM	#7
codeman671 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,494 Thanks: 221 Thanked 811 Times in 487 Posts	Here is the info for the company that we used: Property Tax Advisors Christopher Snow 125 Brewery Lane #6 Portsmouth, NH 03801 603-427-1122 csnow@nhpta.com www.nhpta.com

The Following User Says Thank You to tis For This Useful Post:
ITD (09-14-2011)

05-21-2011, 02:58 PM	#12
Rattlesnake Guy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,254 Thanks: 423 Thanked 366 Times in 175 Posts	Keep in mind that town taxes are a team sport. The objective is to judge all the property fairly and equally. If they drop everyone's evaluation by 20%, your tax won't go down one penny. That requires a reduction in spending or bending of your individual value. The only way to lower your individual tax is to raise everyone else to compensate. I image they get a lot of pressure to avoid that. That said, if they screwed up in your value when compared to other's values then an adjustment makes perfectly good sense. Unfortunately, everyone's property values dropping, has not decreased the appetite for spending.

05-22-2011, 06:41 AM	#16
lawn psycho Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: On the move... Posts: 987 Thanks: 113 Thanked 248 Times in 133 Posts	Depending on the amount, hire an attorney. I've found that some Town Assessors almost take abatement requests personally. When we built our current house, I found out that our assessor had been tagging along with the CEO during his final inspections of all new construction homes. I worked with the builder and put a stop to it and the assessor was miffed that they could not tag along. If the sales price and obvious age of the home were not enough they should not be assessing.

09-13-2011, 10:17 PM	#18
biff Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Property Tax Abatement Advice response to codeman671 Think twice before hiring Chris Snow of Property Tax Advisors in Portsmouth. Sanctioned by the NH BTLA in June 2011 (see http://www.nh.gov/btla/decisions/sea...-09ptorder.pdf for the entire document) because "mediation reports were not filed in a timely manner...and admitted he did not file the required mediation reports until after the board issued default orders." Eight of nine appeals were affected by his laziness. "Mr. Snow failed to cure the noncompliance with Tax 203.07 even after issuance of each default order. The board finds the defaults in these appeals remained uncured even after Mr. Snow filed his mediation reports because they contain incomplete and misleading information and no actual settlement meeting or actual substantive compliance with Tax 203.07 was achieved." "Upon review of these facts and the important underlying issues, the board finds the appropriate sanction is to exclude each of the appraisals Mr. Snow failed to submit to the municipalities on a timely basis and in compliance with the board’s rule..." Once you lose your appeal, the only recourse is to wait for the next filing period and hire a competent tax representative, not just someone who thinks he is. Buyer beware.