Regulation of dock bubblers

[nature lover]

Here we go again. Just drove by Roberts Cove Marina & they have put out their mega bubblers that are on 24/7. The open water is creeping across cove again & headed to beach that is the main access for the snowmobile trail & ice fishing. Someone is going to go in before the winter is over. Who regulates these things? I read that they are not supposed to open water beyond your dock or across your neighbors property??

[Onshore]

270:33 Heating, Agitating, or Other Devices in Public Waters; Safety Hazard. – No person shall put, place, operate, or cause to be put, placed, or operated in the waters of this state any so-called heating, agitating, or other device which inhibits or prevents the natural freezing of water, or forming of ice, and thereby impedes either the ingress or egress to or from the ice from any property other than that of the owner of the device. The person or persons responsible for the placement of the device shall ensure that warning signs are posted to warn of its location. Said signs shall read DANGER, THIN ICE and shall be of sufficient size to be readable at a distance of not less than 150 feet, and shall be visible from all directions and shall be equipped with reflectors and color-coded in a pattern unique for this purpose only. The department of safety is hereby authorized to establish said unique design and coloring and any homemade copies shall follow this design and coloring. The provisions of this section shall be enforced by any law enforcement agency under the direction of the department of safety pursuant to RSA 106-A:14 and the department of fish and game pursuant to RSA 206:26.

[nature lover]

Thank you. But I have called them in past years & pretty much got no where with them. This is not on their priority list & I believe they are short Staffed. One year, we had snow cover the thin ice in front of beach so anyone coming on was totally surprised & got caught up in slush. Luckily it was shallow where it happened. The marina does this every year. They have ruined this cove for safe ice.

[TheTimeTraveler]

Originally Posted by nature lover

Thank you. But I have called them in past years & pretty much got no where with them. This is not on their priority list & I believe they are short Staffed. One year, we had snow cover the thin ice in front of beach so anyone coming on was totally surprised & got caught up in slush. Luckily it was shallow where it happened. The marina does this every year. They have ruined this cove for safe ice.

I would suggest that you send them a letter via USPS Certified Mail outlining your legal and safety concerns. Get your complaint on record and see what their response is.

[phoenix]

maybe send it ups instead

[boat_guy64]

I'd call Fish and Game and see if they are willing to discuss it with the Marina

[Sue Doe-Nym]

You may have already done this....but wouldn’t a call to the Marine Patrol be appropriate? I would think that this might fall under their jurisdiction.

[garysanfran]

And call them!

I think sending the marina a certified, very business-like letter describing the safety AND liability concerns you have, would be taken seriously by a prudent business person who now has been warned of a safety problem.

[nature lover]

Thank you all for your ideas. The marine patrol was called & again they agreed but nothing was done. I even asked if they could post a warning sign on beach so everyone coming on the ice was aware of the thin ice. The thin ice & open water that is caused by all these bubblers is not even close to marina docks & signs. This is what I told both the fish & game & marine patrol & still nothing was done. Very frustrating. I just hope no one gets hurt. As far as dealing with the marina, they do not take kindly to criticism or suggestions. Neighbors of them have had wars going on for years over boundary lines & other issues. I was just wondering if anyone else on the lake has had issues with overzealous bubblers. Another useless law like the DES where you as a neighbor have to tattle & create a war to get it enforced.

[neckdweller]

From the Everything Lake Winnipesaukee page on Facebook. Looks like they're addressing it.

Good afternoon fellow lake community! It came to my attention today that several people were upset about our dock bubblers at Roberts Cove Basin. Comments were posted on a public internet forum complaining that our bubblers have disturbed the ice at a nearby public ice fishing and snowmobile entry point. We would just like to express that we do acknowledge this issue and have never intended to cause any disruption to anyone’s winter activities on the lake. This year we purchased new style bubblers from a local Alton business and they clearly work very well! We have since disconnected the new units and will be repositioning them to try and avoid this issue. These bubblers are not intended to be a nuisance, they simply help save our business from thousands of dollars of dock repairs in the spring. We are continuously working to address the issue so everyone can enjoy the lake year round! Again we are sorry and I encourage anyone with concerns to reach out to me with any and all feedback.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Well, that certainly appears to be a sincere and genuine statement from the marina.....and hopefully the problem will be resolved. Each year there are countless accidents on and around the lakes during the winter months, and so having this problem resolved will be a step in the right direction. Bravo! 👍

[nature lover]

Thank you & I agree. It is wonderful that someone is taking responsibility for this & willing to fix it. Thank you all for helping to bring attention to this dangerous situation & hopefully the marina can fix it & keep their docks from being ruined.

[DickR]

In Neckdweller's quote from the marina's Facebook page, they cite the desire to protect their docks from damage in the spring ice-out. Perhaps they need to have it pointed out to them that running their circulators a lot more than just enough to keep the ice off the docks does not add further protection. Once the ice sheet melts at the shorelines and is free to move with the wind, no circulator action is going to protect the docks from the ice sheet. Melting by circulator is far slower than an ice sheet even just creeping inward. They need to experiment with circulator technique. I've thought that much of the time ice is better addressed with more short intervals rather than with fewer longer running intervals. The marina's circulator program may simply have ON intervals that are too long.

[tis]

Dick R you are right. People mistaken think it will help when the ice melts in the spring. If you have ever seen the wind take that ice you will understand there isn't much that can save your dock. It is powerful. Of course the stronger the dock the better chance it will live to see the summer.

[Formula260SS]

Originally Posted by tis

Dick R you are right. People mistaken think it will help when the ice melts in the spring. If you have ever seen the wind take that ice you will understand there isn't much that can save your dock. It is powerful. Of course the stronger the dock the better chance it will live to see the summer.

I do believe Roberts Cove is pretty well protected from ice movement due to wind, they may be trying to prevent heaving which happens in our marina which is also protected from the wind driven ice. I believe it's the lake level changing when the ice is locked onto the pylon yanking it up twisting everything up

[nature lover]

I believe you are right. A couple of years ago I was walking by the beach in question during ice out & because of these aggressive bubblers a huge slab of ice had broken off from mid cove in. It was moving with the wind & I literally watched all of the marina docks get destroyed in minutes. I remember calling a friend & had her listen over the phone to the docks crunching & cracking as they were destroyed. These bubblers also cause a stream of open water to prematurely occur in mid to late winter in that area. Again very dangerous if you don’t know where it is & snowfall covers it. I don’t ever remember that happening before the marina bubblers. I just really hope they can fix this. We all just want to keep people safe first & protect the marina docks as well.

[nature lover]

Roberts Cove has a very aggressive prevailing wind. Over the years I have seen the wind slam the ice back & forth & side to side many times. When the ice breaks up in the broads we get big chunks floating in here with the wind & there can be a lot of damage. It is not that protected from the prevailing wind off of the broads.

[LIforrelaxin]

In my observations over the years, one of the problems Marina's face with "bubblers" is all the variables involved in proper operation. While it seems simple enough, when used on a large scale they really need to be managed. As you scale down to personal homeowner use the management become less of a concern.

Where I see problems occur, is where the "Automated" set it and forget it approach is used. Often turning on the "Bubblers" mechanism for periods of time which are too long for the conditions.... This is particularly true in cases where the system is automated by single source air temperature switch. Unknowing, the user puts the temperature control device in a location, where it is shaded, and doesn't feel the effects of rising temperature during the day the way it should, leading to extended running of the system... But there are other ways the Automated approach can get screwed up too.

Some level of automation is needed, and I get that... But particularly a business like a marina, should be monitoring system performance at regular intervals.... And with the inventions of web cams, and devices which can control the availability of electricity to said devices remotely, there is no reason, for homeowners to not be checking on there system with regularity.
Have a wemo switch before a temperature activity switch comes to my mind, for the home owner as being an easy solution.

With all that said, all the "bubblers" do is protect the structure as the ice forms...... When the ice breaks up the only protection, is what mother nature provides....because the wind and water currents are going to take the ice where ever it wants to.....

[fatlazyless]

This suggestion does probably not apply to a marina with a lot of docks to protect but to a homeowner with the typical 6' x 30' dock, or so.

Instead of using a single 1/2 or 3/4-hp propeller water circulator, you can use 2-3-or 4 one/sixth horsepower utility pumps that cost about one hundred dollars, each.

Hung by a single line from under the dock, directly close to the dock support legs, it sucks up water from below and shoots it straight up, making a circle of active ripples that keeps the water from freezing into ice.

It spreads the energy impact on the water from one big propeller moving the water, to 2-3-4 smaller circles of ripple water and changes the dynamics of the water energy flow by keeping it closer to the dock supports legs ...... so's the open water doesn't get bigger and impact the neighbor's waterfront. It keeps it local.