Gas Prices

[topwater]

Just a FYI, the 2 gas stations in New Hampton Exit 23-(Irving and the Mobil across the street) have gas at $3.20 a gallon compared to what I have been seeing around the lake, that is about 25 cents a gallon cheaper then the average. Been like that for 3 days now.

[SIKSUKR]

That didn't last too long. As of Monday they are at $3.34.

[NoRegrets]

Last week the wholesale gas price dipped down to 2.80 per gallon. Today it is back to 3.03. It was as high as 3.10 before the dip.

Good luck all!

[CateP]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

That didn't last too long. As of Monday they are at $3.34.

I'm really liking what I see on this thread. Here in New Jersey, where we are known for low gas prices, my neighborhood Hess station is also at $3.34.

I would say that lakes region gas is pretty reasonably priced.

[jrc]

Don't forget, up here you usually have to pump it yourself. Is it still illegal to have self -serve in NJ?

[fltsimguy]

Can't wait to see what gas will be running at the docks! Or maybe I can...

[CateP]

Originally Posted by jrc

Don't forget, up here you usually have to pump it yourself. Is it still illegal to have self -serve in NJ?

Yep. As a former resident of Maine, Mass, Conn, and NH, I am used to the self-serve routine. (especially memorable in cold rain with no overhang)

Not sure if it's "illegal" to pump your own gas in NJ, but it sure provides a bunch of jobs for folks and makes buying gas a social event. (one thing of very small list of things I'll miss when we move)

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by fltsimguy

Can't wait to see what gas will be running at the docks! Or maybe I can...

Can you say highway robbery??

[Mr. V]

Gas over four bucks a gallon here on the Left Coast.

[hilltopper]

Originally Posted by topwater

Just a FYI, the 2 gas stations in New Hampton Exit 23-(Irving and the Mobil across the street) have gas at $3.20 a gallon compared to what I have been seeing around the lake, that is about 25 cents a gallon cheaper then the average. Been like that for 3 days now.

FYI...

Yesterday morning gas at exit 23 was $3.20. When I can back through in the evening it was $3.34. It was $3.33 thgis morning. Still the best price I've seen around...

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by CateP

I would say that lakes region gas is pretty reasonably priced.

The Tilton exit stations have been priced very good over the last 3 years when I compare them on Gasbuddy.com.
The Lincoln exit is the opposite.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by hilltopper

FYI...

Yesterday morning gas at exit 23 was $3.20. When I can back through in the evening it was $3.34. It was $3.33 thgis morning. Still the best price I've seen around...

I hope they can change those signs from inside! With the amount of price changing based on the neighbor across the street's prices, those attendants are kept busy.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

Can you say highway robbery??

In all honesty I find marina / dockside gas on Winni to be very fair compared to the prices at roadside self serve pumps. It normally averages .50 - .75 cents more per gallon for full serve on the water. That really is fair in my opinion. As far as the overall price of gas goes, I don't think they have much say in that, OPEC sets that price.

Dan

[robmac]

Sadly I have to look at it this way. I enjoy boating,there's nothing inexpensive about boating,we have a wonderful time out on the water,it's very relaxing. So all in all the price of gas is what it is when it comes to the boat. One less meal out puts a fair amount in the tank. JMHO

[BobbyA]

Folks.If you`re shopping for the best gas prices.The best place to look is here. http://www.newhampshiregasprices.com/

[SIKSUKR]

Same site I listed.

[Lakesrider]

Just got back from Florida...gas at exit 23 is $3.32 at the Mobile station. $3.46 at the Circle K in Meredith, and $3.39 at Fullers, $3.51 at Skelly's.

Gas down in the Orlando area is pretty close to ours. Around $3.55 per gal.

[dmjr]

I paid $3.51 at Skelly's tonight, I think it is going to get worse before it gets better

[lawn psycho]

I've long since just dealt with the fact that paying more at the dock is going to cost more money. Since I only trailer to the marina and back in Spring and Fall I don't have much choice. Filling a 50 gallon tank with 5 gallon cans isn't practical either.

My biggest concern for dock gas is water and contamination, especially in spring when the gas in the tanks is likely old. I make sure I top off my boat in spring at the road station and wait until the last possible chance so their tanks are fresh.

I wish marinas would let slip and valet renters pay for gas in advance to get bulk buy as I seem to use about the same amount each year. Would be a nice benefit to have and may even reduce the marinas purchase price so they make more money on gas from everyone else....

[robmac]

Some MARINAS DO OFFER GAS CARDS TO PREPAY FOR YOUR FUEL. yOU SHOULD CHECK AROUND.

[topwater]

New Hampton this evening $3.28. Gotta love living in the cheap gas zone...

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by robmac

Some MARINAS DO OFFER GAS CARDS TO PREPAY FOR YOUR FUEL. yOU SHOULD CHECK AROUND.

Do you know of any specifically?

[jrc]

Please I need a place with gas cards.

I just did my gas tax refund form. If gas goes to $4.50 a gallon on the water, I'll spend over $700 more on gas this year then in 2010.

I'm predicting a lot more anchoring this year.

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by jrc

I just did my gas tax refund form. If gas goes to $4.50 a gallon on the water, I'll spend over $700 more on gas this year then in 2010.

I'm predicting a lot more anchoring this year.

With the need for more anchoring, perhaps a 2 year moratorium on no-rafting zones would be the green thing to do. This would spread the boats out and have all cove dwellers share the load.

[robmac]

Shep Browns has gas cards available.

[Rag Top Daze]

Would you be prepaying at a fixed price? If not, what is the advantage of a prepaid gas card?

[PapaDon]

Originally Posted by jrc

Please I need a place with gas cards.

I just did my gas tax refund form. If gas goes to $4.50 a gallon on the water, I'll spend over $700 more on gas this year then in 2010.

I'm predicting a lot more anchoring this year.

I think I'm more glad than ever that I own a sailboat.

[Lakesrider]

Sunoco in Wolfeboro went to $3.68. Citgo to $3.63 and Three Sisters to $3.65.

[Just Sold]

Tonight ABC News had a report on the skyrocketing price of gas and that it is being fueled by oil speculators, there are no shortages and OPEC reported that there is actually a glut on the market. So where will this end with oil speculators and oil companies making record profits off the American public. I do not see anyone in Washington raising the alarm and doing anything about this.

Donald Trump had an opinion that enough is enough on the price of oil in another report on presidential canidates.

I know that we are paying at the gas staions now and at the lake we will pay even more very soon.

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/gas-...ocket-13351696

[robmac]

If we could get politicians that realized "of the people and for the people" we wouldn't have such a calamity with the S&P bond rating being lowered or the price of crude.

[Lakesrider]

Sunoco in Wolfeboro now $3.82. Twin Sisters and Citgo $3.77.
Fullers was still $3.69 last I went by but I'll bet it is up today.

This is not a very promising chart. Notice the one year price expected is $123.00 per barrel. If we are at $3.80 per gallon at $107 per barrel, just what will be at when the price of a barrel or crude goes to $123.00. Holy Moly.

http://www.oil-price.net/

Maybe I'll open up a bicycle store.

[trfour]

Talk all you want about Gas prices Going UP! Some older folks are about to be eliminated after paying their fair share, over many years of their lives for Medicare/ this. Not even to mention Social Security that our supported Government Officials have found a way to dip into the kitty, ( and not that cute fuzzy adorable one that we were ) led to believe in while we were happily paying for, and that many of us very proudly Served to defend against our adversaries wherever it was needed around the world and that and saved some of their very butts.
Please, and let us do this well, and into the future! Pay back begins here! Pay back the monies that you decided to borrow from social Security funds that were already paid entirely for, and by us. Not for anyone else and very certainly not invented for your misguided seat, way up on the hill. Same goes for Medicare/ this. Stop trying to take away from the people that have already paid into Medicare/ this, we have already witnessed what you have done with Social Security, of which we have paid for as well. ( Now, Y'all have the opportunity to, and fess up to our many dead, and living and very brave that went in harms way for the defense and greater trust in our very own Country ). Seems to me that, more and more among and who survived, are being continually taxed and abused here in the US. The tables tell a vivaed story about how we are being pushed into being a third world country! I am trying to be kind here, and as always. Too late, history will tell our fate! Very basically, The rich are being treated as such, and taxed less than the poor.
As you are well aware, the rape and corruptive activity around the world of the people that try to do what is best for their Country, are not necessarily rewarded for their backbreaking work, all and in the trust of their Elected ones.

Things are about to change, as we see it, and some do not... Do not run for your lives, instead, listen to the people and do what is right...

Now, isn't this appalling to at least some of you High and agreed on somewhere on the hill?

Please, turn up your hearing aids, and of course it would be advantageous to put your eyeballs on too! , and an RG ... What a Tooth!

T

[Rag Top Daze]

On my way home from work yesterday, I noticed the Laconia and Meredith Irvings were both up to $3.72. The one in Center Harbor and Fuller's were still at $3.69. Probably hadn't gotten a delivery.

[robmac]

3.67 @ sams club Hudson. Girl at pump said 3.80 by next delivery.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Just Sold

Tonight ABC News had a report on the skyrocketing price of gas and that it is being fueled by oil speculators, there are no shortages and OPEC reported that there is actually a glut on the market. So where will this end with oil speculators and oil companies making record profits off the American public. I do not see anyone in Washington raising the alarm and doing anything about this.

Donald Trump had an opinion that enough is enough on the price of oil in another report on presidential canidates.

I know that we are paying at the gas staions now and at the lake we will pay even more very soon.

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/gas-...ocket-13351696

The problem with fuel is the demand is relatively inelastic so when prices run up there is no quick remedy to counter balance things out with less supply.

Everyone wants the ideal of "free-markets" (Greenspan was almost delusional about them) but they don't work without regulations. Anyone forget the nightmare of Fall 2008 and basically all of 2009? The supply/demand is so far out of whack with oil that I have a difficult time believing that outside manipulation is not at play.

China has surging energy demands and they are working at a fevered pitch to combat it. They have mini windmills on light poles to power the street lights in some areas. Could you imaging the uproar in the US if we wanted stuff like that? Even on this forum there are people who would oppose any kind of windmill. As long as we have a mindset like that, we're going to stuggle to ween off our oil dependency.

China's dwarfing us in alternative energy development. Sadly most of the solar, wind, and battery technologies have their roots in the US but we're now the underdog of innovation.

Instead of paying for two wars imagine what the money could be better used for......

[NoRegrets]

The US Department of energy has 100,000 employees and an annual budget of 23 Billion dollars. They have many responsibilities including looking for a solid strategy for the US energy policy. The department was started in 1977 by Jimmy Carter and it looks like it exploded (of bloated) to the current size.

Dr. Steven Chu is the head of the organization with a very impressive resume. He is a participant in international anti fossil fuel climate change organizations. He stated the US price of gas should be equal to Europe to curb the US addiction.

The media is MIA on good old fashioned investigative reporting and following the trail on the real cost of our energy. I am suspicious that there is a plan to get gas above 8 dollars a gallon and we are nit picking sound bites in the media. Wall street speculation, deregulation, supply disruption, global unrest, China and emerging market demand, and all other issues do not seem to equate to the current supply levels and cost.

Will this impact the useage of the lake this year? I suspect it will.

[Belmont Resident]

According the an article someone read to me they predict as much as a 40% increase over what it is now for the summer season. At this rate dealers won't be able to keep motorcycles in stock.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

According the an article someone read to me they predict as much as a 40% increase over what it is now for the summer season. At this rate dealers won't be able to keep motorcycles in stock.

On CNN this morning they had a person claiming gas was at or near it's peak.

Unforunately a lot of people do things that don't save any money. Buy a new motorcycle for $10k (or more), insurance, registration and it takes a whole lot of gas to recoup the savings.

I like the idea of investing in a siphon hose

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by NoRegrets

The media is MIA on good old fashioned investigative reporting and following the trail on the real cost of our energy. I am suspicious that there is a plan to get gas above 8 dollars a gallon and we are nit picking sound bites in the media. Wall street speculation, deregulation, supply disruption, global unrest, China and emerging market demand, and all other issues do not seem to equate to the current supply levels and cost.

Obama and his green cronies need to keep the cost of gas high to justify wasting tons of tax dollars funding alternative energy and subsidize ethanol production. Plus they earn more tax revenue on higher prices since it's a percentage of the sale price. Can't justify "green energy" when gas is cheap. There isn't a supply problem, there is a glut of inventory on the market, that's why the Saudi's announced they are cutting production.

The supply coming into this country is being purposely throttled and so is refinement. That's what is fueling speculators to drive the price up, which of course has a snowball effect. Difference today versus a couple years ago... gas hit 4.00 per gallon when oil hit $150 bucks a barrel, today it's nearly 4.00 per gallon with oil only at $107 bucks a barrel.

Doesn't help that the dollar is so devalued right now that it's barely worth the paper it's printed on.

This is what happens after 10 years of financial mismanagement in DC combined with the desire to fund pet projects. Just my humble observations.

[Lakesrider]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

According the an article someone read to me they predict as much as a 40% increase over what it is now for the summer season. At this rate dealers won't be able to keep motorcycles in stock.

Don't worry. Laconia HD will have plenty of over priced Bikes to sell....
I like DT's position to stop giving aid, or protection to the Arab countries, if they keep jacking up the prices to the US. If we don't get our National Debt down, and lose our AAA rating, we'll be paying higher prices for everything. Form Mortgage rates to $7.00 gal gas. All of the big oil companies made huge profits so far this year, and though there is an oil glut right now, those damn speculators are scr...ing us royally. Time to wipe out some of those pesky folk with some type of plague!

[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Plus they earn more tax revenue on higher prices since it's a percentage of the sale price.

Wrong. The federal gas tax is 18.4 cents/gallon, and has been since 1993. The feds get the same tax revenue per gallon sold, whether the price to the consumer is $1.00 per gallon or $5.00 per gallon.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by TMI Guy

Wrong. The federal gas tax is 18.4 cents/gallon, and has been since 1993. The feds get the same tax revenue per gallon sold, whether the price to the consumer is $1.00 per gallon or $5.00 per gallon.

You're absolutely right I stand corrected on that one. I could have swore they were running on a percentage margin....

Oh no better not give them any ideas!

[Belmont Resident]

It is not about the savings it's about not paying the price and getting up to 55mpg.
It's all about having the excuse to buy something you've been debating.
With fuel prices as they are I doubt boating is going to be as enjoyable.

As for gas prices, we will see, but I believe we will see it hit $5.00 and with prices on the lake even higher all I can say it ouch.
My wife is taking the safety course at laconia HD next weekend but you won't see her looking at HD bikes as an option, way overpriced.
National Powersports has some nice used material in the 500-700cc range that she has been looking at.

[PapaDon]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

It is not about the savings it's about not paying the price and getting up to 55mpg.
It's all about having the excuse to buy something you've been debating.
With fuel prices as they are I doubt boating is going to be as enjoyable.

As for gas prices, we will see, but I believe we will see it hit $5.00 and with prices on the lake even higher all I can say it ouch.
My wife is taking the safety course at laconia HD next weekend but you won't see her looking at HD bikes as an option, way overpriced.
National Powersports has some nice used material in the 500-700cc range that she has been looking at.

Or try Laconia Bike Works on Union Ave opposite McDonalds and get a new 250cc motor scooter for about $2000+ and get about 80 mpg. My 50cc gets around 100 mpg. LBW is in the old Fitzgerald Motorsports building.

[fatlazyless]

The Baptist Church in Laconia is sponsoring a 25-cent gasoline discount day, on Saturday, at the Airport Mobil, on Saturday or something? There was a big ad in yesterday's LaDaSun.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Obama and his green cronies......

MAXUM, just so you know as soon as I read that I stopped reading. Last time I checked at the pump we don't enter any political information. This issue goes way beyond party lines.....

I will tell anyone if you don't look at other energy sources we're going to get it handed too us in the long run. Travel to China with me next month and a 4th grader could see the growth and money infusion going on over there. In fact, when they build over there most companies work 24 hours to get the project done so they can get to the next one.

The US is quickly losing its economic dominance as China's population is way bigger than our. So we either use our smarts now or we'll look like dunces later. I work down in the weeds of technology and let me tell you China is at a HUGE advantage for innovation. They're still behind us but with the $$ infusion from countries all around the world they're gaining very quickly. It's frightening what I've seen happen in just the last 10 years in the tech sector.

All that growth means China is sucking fuel and competing for the same resources we have. If you think "green" is a negative term I recommend you change your thinking. What's wrong with efficiency?

European appliances SPANK us in efficiency. Look how many computers and routers are sitting on home desks that were not there until the mid to late 90s. Flip it over and look how much current they draw and think how many PCs there are. I've got muliple in my house alone. A lot of the current requirements in your router were based on Eurpoean energy standards. If you want some of the highest efficiency heating and cooling appliances in the world, guess what, European. We've got to get Americans to change their mindsets. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result = insanity.

[hilltopper]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

According the an article someone read to me they predict as much as a 40% increase over what it is now for the summer season. At this rate dealers won't be able to keep motorcycles in stock.

Go find that article again. If it's the same one I saw it was 40% over the price it was LAST SUMMER. No way gas hits five and a half bucks this summer.

[Dog's Ear]

A thief in Paris planned to steal some paintings from the Louvre.



After careful planning, he got past security, stole the paintings, and made it safely to his van. However, he was captured only two blocks away when his van ran out of gas.
When asked how he could mastermind such a crime and then make such an obvious error, he replied, 'Monsieur, that is the reason I stole the paintings.'


I had no Monet


To buy Degas


To make the Van Gogh.


See if you have De Gaulle to send this on to someone else.


I sent it to you because I figured I had nothing Toulouse.

[Grant]

GasBuddy reports prices ranging from $3.65 to $3.69 per gallon around the Lake, which I can assure you is pretty damn good. Drove from PA to Montreal last week, and the best I got in NJ was $3.61, and upstate New York quickly jumped from $3.89 south of Albany to $4.09 closer to Plattsburgh.

Of course, boat gas is another beast, unless you are filling portable tanks at a regular station.

[Belmont Resident]

You could be right, as I said it was second hand info and could have been misread to me.

[Waterbaby]

Originally Posted by Grant

GasBuddy reports prices ranging from $3.65 to $3.69 per gallon around the Lake, which I can assure you is pretty damn good. Drove from PA to Montreal last week, and the best I got in NJ was $3.61, and upstate New York quickly jumped from $3.89 south of Albany to $4.09 closer to Plattsburgh.

Of course, boat gas is another beast, unless you are filling portable tanks at a regular station.

Exeter/Portsmouth area is 3.79 to 3.83 today............. going up about .06 at least every other day.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Grant

GasBuddy reports prices ranging from $3.65 to $3.69 per gallon around the Lake, which I can assure you is pretty damn good. Drove from PA to Montreal last week, and the best I got in NJ was $3.61, and upstate New York quickly jumped from $3.89 south of Albany to $4.09 closer to Plattsburgh.

Of course, boat gas is another beast, unless you are filling portable tanks at a regular station.

Grant, I was in Montreal 4/14 thru 4/17 for a hockey tournament. Were you there for the same reason? There were a few teams from PA!

Gas is Montreal is equivalent to $4.99 - $5.23 a gallon here. Prices in Montreal ranged from $1.34 to $1.38 per liter (3.79 liters per gallon)

Ron

[Grady223]

Buy one of these: http://www.tamarackelectricboats.com...onBrochure.pdf

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

MAXUM, just so you know as soon as I read that I stopped reading. Last time I checked at the pump we don't enter any political information. This issue goes way beyond party lines.....

I will tell anyone if you don't look at other energy sources we're going to get it handed too us in the long run. Travel to China with me next month and a 4th grader could see the growth and money infusion going on over there. In fact, when they build over there most companies work 24 hours to get the project done so they can get to the next one.

The US is quickly losing its economic dominance as China's population is way bigger than our. So we either use our smarts now or we'll look like dunces later. I work down in the weeds of technology and let me tell you China is at a HUGE advantage for innovation. They're still behind us but with the $$ infusion from countries all around the world they're gaining very quickly. It's frightening what I've seen happen in just the last 10 years in the tech sector.

All that growth means China is sucking fuel and competing for the same resources we have. If you think "green" is a negative term I recommend you change your thinking. What's wrong with efficiency?

European appliances SPANK us in efficiency. Look how many computers and routers are sitting on home desks that were not there until the mid to late 90s. Flip it over and look how much current they draw and think how many PCs there are. I've got muliple in my house alone. A lot of the current requirements in your router were based on Eurpoean energy standards. If you want some of the highest efficiency heating and cooling appliances in the world, guess what, European. We've got to get Americans to change their mindsets. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result = insanity.

China is also a communist country and the government controls everything including the work force. Yes they are flush with cash, but much of that is made on the backs of what is essentially government sanctioned slavery. While the outward appearance may look inviting, peel back the covers of how they got there and it's ugly. China, yeah I've been there, not impressed either.

Far as alternative energy goes, we are spending money that we simply cannot afford to spend developing alternative energy sources that have not yet proven to be as reliable and cost effective as fossil fuels. Now I have no philosophical opposition to developing these technologies, but it is NOT the government's job to be in the business of directly financing it. Rather I'd prefer to see companies working on this stuff to get tax break considerations and let the venture capitol fund the development. Until these alternatives are cost effective and as efficient as fossil fuels they should not be forced down out throats. Should they be encouraged, absolutely.

We are loosing our economic dominance and for that matter our status as the lone super power for one reason and one reason only. Our elected officials are creating a very hostile business climate which is forcing companies to either look overseas to cheaper labor or face failure. No surprise with the highest corporate tax rate on the planet it's not in anyone's interest to employ domestically anymore. My company has already in 5 years shipped over 1/2 of it's US based jobs overseas to the tune of over 150K jobs, and their long term objective is to have that current number cut in 1/2 again in the next three years to get the number down to about 75K. Isn't that just nice? The current tax and over reaching regulatory structure is killing our economy. As I have said before the class warfare isn't going to solve our economic woes, there are only so many "rich" people and corporations out there and once they have been tapped or relocate out what then?

[SteveA]

Everyone wants to blame "supply" for the current rise in gas prices. That is what drove prices higher in previous dramatic spikes in pricing. The fact is, we are awash in gas... we have plenty. The problem is unrestrained speculation and lots of politicians on both sides that refuse to reign in Wall Street.

They are the ones that caused the meltdown at the end of the Bush years with the speculation on real estate. Neither party has had the "testicular fortitude" to take them on and stop the casino they are running on Wall Street. The "bets' we allow them to make, by lack of regulation, are set up "heads they win, tails we lose" .

When the risks they take pay off.. they get big money, when the bets lose... we pay.

They love the fact that most people in this country are perfectly happy to blame either the Dems or GOP... and sadly we keep doing exactly that. I'm not letting any of the politicians off the hook.. they need to tell their masters on Wall Street... the party is over. (No.. I don't think it will happen with this current bunch in Washington, but I'd love it if I was wrong.)

Watch this... it's a little long.. but worth the look.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...73554#42673554

[AB_Monterey]

This is one of the best descriptions of how we came to this point in history and how oil prices are being driven.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_.../JE06Dj07.html

and here is where it all started. The price of oil is just one of the many gifts we've been handed by Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000.


http://2010.newsweek.com/top-10/hist...gislation.html

[lawn psycho]

AB, good reads.

If anyone is a believer of true "free markets" and letting markets set the price without regulation, you don't have too look very far to see how many times in history that the US financial system has been crushed by lack of oversight.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

China is also a communist country and the government controls everything including the work force. Yes they are flush with cash, but much of that is made on the backs of what is essentially government sanctioned slavery.

This thread is about gas prices but that's not how it works. In fact, because business is growing so fast over there the problem companies have is turn-over.

Employees get experience right out of the university, work for one or two years and then just hop to the next factory that is opening and offering 30% (or more) wages to poach them.

The reason why US companies go to China is the labor rate. Divide you income by 6.5 and that is what your Chinese counterpart makes. The can't buy the machines and tools any cheaper than a US company but the employess running them don't cost as much. China is operating more and more like a democracy every day. No doubt they are still a communist government but economics is pushing them to places they've never been before. China is freaking out with inflation right now. Scary to think what will happen when China has its first hard recession.