Hot Water Baseboard Repair

Whimsey · 09-09-2010, 04:54 PM

One zone of our hot water baseboard heating system never gets more than lukewarm even though it's pretty close to the furnace. I suspect that the water is not circulating properly

Anyone care to recommend a plumber/heating contractor who can check it out for me? I'm in the Alton/Gilford area.

Thanks for your help!

Comptonbuilder · 09-09-2010, 05:40 PM

I would give Minute Man Plumbing and Heating a call. They do all my new construction and remodeling projects. Their numbers are 603-279-3323 or cell phone 603-387-1476 ask for Phil Brown. They are definately worth the call.

Regards

Scott Compton

Belmont Resident · 09-09-2010, 06:56 PM

Look him up he is listed, he does all of the plumbing for one of the crews I work with. Excellent to work with and resonable rates.

NoBozo · 09-09-2010, 07:00 PM

Each ZONE of a Baseboard Hot Water system has a Zone Valve. It's in the cellar near the furnace. It's controlled by the thermostat up in the room, or area for that zone. The thermostat is not likely the problem. The zone valve in your case may be "sticky" or reluctant to function. As often as not.. just replacing the "Electric" part of the zone valve....a seperate component ON TOP of the mechanical valve itself fixes the problem

Hire a plumber and the cost goes UP. NB

DickR · 09-09-2010, 07:41 PM

It also might be that there is an air pocket in that loop that hasn't been bled. The circulator produces just enough head to move water through the loop if it is totally filled with water. Checking this costs nothing and ought to be done before spending money for parts or a plumber.

Look at the elbows at the ends of the loop. One of them ought to have a small valve in it. Open it until air bleeds out and there is just a squirt of water. You'll want to have a rag under it to absorb the water, and you may have to use an offset screwdriver to get into the restrictive space. And mind your knuckles on the aluminum fins on the pipe, as they are sharp. This may not work if the run of pipe is not level and the bleed valve is at a low point.

If you can't bleed the air out that way, then you may be able to do it through the water makeup valve on the system. Hook up a hose (an old washing machine hose is nice and short) to the drain valve on that loop and run the end into a bucket. Close the valve going from the circulator to the boiler, open the drain valve, and, if necessary, open the pressure regulator bypass valve. The rush of water into the system will quickly flush out any trapped air.

SIKSUKR · 09-10-2010, 09:51 AM

If you only have 1 circulator pump then I doubt there is air in just that zone.If you have a pump on each zone which I do then I would look at purging that zone as previously posted.If that does not solve it you might have a broken pump or impeller.Either way it should be an easy fix for a service man.

Whimsey · 09-10-2010, 10:47 AM

I'll give these a try before calling in a service guy. Thanks a lot.

jmen24 · 09-10-2010, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoBozo

Each ZONE of a Baseboard Hot Water system has a Zone Valve. It's in the cellar near the furnace. It's controlled by the thermostat up in the room, or area for that zone. The thermostat is not likely the problem. The zone valve in your case may be "sticky" or reluctant to function. As often as not.. just replacing the "Electric" part of the zone valve....a seperate component ON TOP of the mechanical valve itself fixes the problem

Hire a plumber and the cost goes UP. NB

Zone valves usually stick either open or closed, but you could be correct. They will not product warm, its hot or cold. Some heating systems run independant circulators to each zone for baseboard heat or radiant so zone valves are not always present. Really depends on how far the water needs to be pushed or pulled.

Couple of things to check. (the silly "I should have thought of that stuff" before hiring a plumber)

1. Have you verified that the pipes are not getting hot or are you just not gettting the same kind of heated air from the baseboard unit. If the pipe is HOT, but no heat, check to make sure that carpeting is not ubstructing the flow of air from the bottom of the baseboard.

2. If you have zone valves, here is the test to determine if they are working. Remove the wire from the number one terminal on the head of the zone valve. Once removed, pull the little lever all the way down and turn on a thermostat on another zone. If the zone in question heats up as normal, then the head of the zone valve is bad. (disconnecting the wire from the head ensures that a signal cannot be sent to the zone valve by the thermostat. If a signal is sent to open the valve after it has manually been opened it will damage the head and it will need to be replaced.

3. If you have circulating pump zone control, the zone that is not circulating will make no noise when the thermostat is turned on. The circulating pump will get TERRIFICALLY HOT to the touch. I say it that way, because they will get hot in normal use, but "putting your hand on the stove, hot", when they are siezed.

4. Check to see that a ball valve controlling the zone has not been closed slightly. There should be one valve at the start of the loop and one at the end (located after a sill cock, for draining the line). A slightly closed valve will constrict the flow of water in the loop and reduce the heat output on that zone. It can also cause the loop to get airbound. If this is the case, post back and I can walk you through fixing that issue. An airbound line in a fully open loop and on only one zone, is the cause of another issue that will require a plumber to pressure test the system to find an air leak in a connection.

Those are the quick and easy problems that you can check yourself and are the cause of a single zone failure issue 9/10 times. Good luck.

RLW · 09-10-2010, 06:47 PM

If it is air bound it is the expansion tank not working properly and removing the air when the system is running.

RI Swamp Yankee · 09-10-2010, 10:28 PM

DickR and jmen24 have good advice.

I have a system with just one continous loop for the house, one zone. A couple of years back I had the same problem, sort of hot near at the first baseboard near the furnace, lukewarm at the end of the loop. Water temp at furnace was HOT. No air bleed at the high point of the system. I was convinced it was the circulator but I could not find a replacement. I connected a hose to the drain, ran it out the basement window and drained it. I closed the return valve, opened a drain valve just above the return, and opened the water supply valve. This fed water through the furnace, through the loop upstairs and back down to the drain just above the return valve and pushed air out the drain valve. When I heard the water sloshing back down the return line I closed the drain which was located in the retun pipe and near the top of the furnace.

In short, purging and refilling the system may get it working again. Also make sure you bleed air from the "air scoop" if you have one.

Argie's Wife · 09-10-2010, 10:56 PM

I assume you get your furnace serviced each year, so why not just ask them to troubleshoot your problem?

We had a similar issue and a new zone valve was installed - problem solved. It was a $5 part and took less than 30 min to install... Problem hasn't returned.

jmen24 · 09-13-2010, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argie's Wife

I assume you get your furnace serviced each year, so why not just ask them to troubleshoot your problem?

We had a similar issue and a new zone valve was installed - problem solved. It was a $5 part and took less than 30 min to install... Problem hasn't returned.

I can assure you that a zone valve was not replaced for $5 in parts. A Taco standard duty zone valve head alone is about $60 and an entire assembly runs about $85, contractor cost. A circulator is in the same price range. http://www.pexsupply.com/Taco-555-05...-570-3708000-p

RLW, the expansion tank is not in the system to remove air. The auto bleeder at the top of the return line above the boiler does that. The expansion tanks sole purpose in the heating loop is to take up the expanded volume of hot water as a direct result of heating it.

Slickcraft · 09-13-2010, 07:43 AM

We have one circulator pump and three zone valves. Each fall at least one of the 2nd floor zones is air bound and hot water either will not circulate at all or very slowly.

It is a simple matter to purge each zone on our system so I do it myself. In the beginning I asked the service tech to trouble shoot it during annual service, as AW has suggested. He then showed me how to purge a zone. Even if this is not your current problem, in the future it can be a first action prior to deciding to call for service

Whimsey · 10-01-2010, 03:34 PM

Thanks to everyone for their input. To round out the story, I couldn't resolve it myself. It turns out one of the circulator pumps had failed. Had Mike Mahoney fix it. Thanks again.

tummyman · 10-01-2010, 04:02 PM

I had an old plumber show me a trick when purging the system. Use a hose from the boiler and run it into a 5 gallon pail full of water. When you open the purge valve, you will actually see all the air bubbles come out of the system bubbling up in the 5 gallon pail. When the bubbles stop, you are done. Simple but effective.

09-09-2010, 04:54 PM	#1
Whimsey Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Rum Point/West Alton Posts: 196 Thanks: 261 Thanked 37 Times in 24 Posts	Hot Water Baseboard Repair One zone of our hot water baseboard heating system never gets more than lukewarm even though it's pretty close to the furnace. I suspect that the water is not circulating properly Anyone care to recommend a plumber/heating contractor who can check it out for me? I'm in the Alton/Gilford area. Thanks for your help!

09-09-2010, 06:56 PM	#3
Belmont Resident Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Belmont NH but prefer Jackman Maine Posts: 1,857 Thanks: 491 Thanked 409 Times in 251 Posts	Mike Mahoneys plumbing & heating in Alton Look him up he is listed, he does all of the plumbing for one of the crews I work with. Excellent to work with and resonable rates.

09-10-2010, 09:51 AM	#6
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	If you only have 1 circulator pump then I doubt there is air in just that zone.If you have a pump on each zone which I do then I would look at purging that zone as previously posted.If that does not solve it you might have a broken pump or impeller.Either way it should be an easy fix for a service man. __________________ SIKSUKR

09-10-2010, 10:47 AM	#7
Whimsey Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Rum Point/West Alton Posts: 196 Thanks: 261 Thanked 37 Times in 24 Posts	Thanks to All for the Helpful Advice I'll give these a try before calling in a service guy. Thanks a lot.

09-10-2010, 06:47 PM	#9
RLW Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Alton Bay on the mountain by a lake Posts: 2,023 Thanks: 563 Thanked 444 Times in 311 Posts	If it is air bound it is the expansion tank not working properly and removing the air when the system is running. __________________ There is nothing better than living on Alton Mountain & our grand kids visits.

09-09-2010, 05:40 PM	#2
Comptonbuilder Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 33 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	I would give Minute Man Plumbing and Heating a call. They do all my new construction and remodeling projects. Their numbers are 603-279-3323 or cell phone 603-387-1476 ask for Phil Brown. They are definately worth the call. Regards Scott Compton

09-09-2010, 07:00 PM	#4
NoBozo Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Portsmouth. RI Posts: 2,231 Thanks: 400 Thanked 460 Times in 308 Posts	Each ZONE of a Baseboard Hot Water system has a Zone Valve. It's in the cellar near the furnace. It's controlled by the thermostat up in the room, or area for that zone. The thermostat is not likely the problem. The zone valve in your case may be "sticky" or reluctant to function. As often as not.. just replacing the "Electric" part of the zone valve....a seperate component ON TOP of the mechanical valve itself fixes the problem Hire a plumber and the cost goes UP. NB

09-09-2010, 07:41 PM	#5
DickR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 738 Thanks: 4 Thanked 256 Times in 168 Posts	It also might be that there is an air pocket in that loop that hasn't been bled. The circulator produces just enough head to move water through the loop if it is totally filled with water. Checking this costs nothing and ought to be done before spending money for parts or a plumber. Look at the elbows at the ends of the loop. One of them ought to have a small valve in it. Open it until air bleeds out and there is just a squirt of water. You'll want to have a rag under it to absorb the water, and you may have to use an offset screwdriver to get into the restrictive space. And mind your knuckles on the aluminum fins on the pipe, as they are sharp. This may not work if the run of pipe is not level and the bleed valve is at a low point. If you can't bleed the air out that way, then you may be able to do it through the water makeup valve on the system. Hook up a hose (an old washing machine hose is nice and short) to the drain valve on that loop and run the end into a bucket. Close the valve going from the circulator to the boiler, open the drain valve, and, if necessary, open the pressure regulator bypass valve. The rush of water into the system will quickly flush out any trapped air.

The Following User Says Thank You to jmen24 For This Useful Post:
Whimsey (09-14-2010)

09-10-2010, 10:28 PM	#10
RI Swamp Yankee Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: North Kingstown RI Posts: 688 Thanks: 143 Thanked 83 Times in 55 Posts	DickR and jmen24 have good advice. I have a system with just one continous loop for the house, one zone. A couple of years back I had the same problem, sort of hot near at the first baseboard near the furnace, lukewarm at the end of the loop. Water temp at furnace was HOT. No air bleed at the high point of the system. I was convinced it was the circulator but I could not find a replacement. I connected a hose to the drain, ran it out the basement window and drained it. I closed the return valve, opened a drain valve just above the return, and opened the water supply valve. This fed water through the furnace, through the loop upstairs and back down to the drain just above the return valve and pushed air out the drain valve. When I heard the water sloshing back down the return line I closed the drain which was located in the retun pipe and near the top of the furnace. In short, purging and refilling the system may get it working again. Also make sure you bleed air from the "air scoop" if you have one. __________________ Gene ~ aka "another RI Swamp Yankee"

09-10-2010, 10:56 PM	#11
Argie's Wife Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Alton Posts: 1,908 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 533 Thanked 579 Times in 260 Posts	I assume you get your furnace serviced each year, so why not just ask them to troubleshoot your problem? We had a similar issue and a new zone valve was installed - problem solved. It was a $5 part and took less than 30 min to install... Problem hasn't returned.

The Following User Says Thank You to Argie's Wife For This Useful Post:
trfour (09-11-2010)

The Following User Says Thank You to jmen24 For This Useful Post:
RLW (09-15-2010)

09-13-2010, 07:43 AM	#13
Slickcraft Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Welch Island and West Alton Posts: 3,240 Thanks: 1,187 Thanked 2,018 Times in 924 Posts	We have one circulator pump and three zone valves. Each fall at least one of the 2nd floor zones is air bound and hot water either will not circulate at all or very slowly. It is a simple matter to purge each zone on our system so I do it myself. In the beginning I asked the service tech to trouble shoot it during annual service, as AW has suggested. He then showed me how to purge a zone. Even if this is not your current problem, in the future it can be a first action prior to deciding to call for service

10-01-2010, 03:34 PM	#14
Whimsey Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Rum Point/West Alton Posts: 196 Thanks: 261 Thanked 37 Times in 24 Posts	Thanks Thanks to everyone for their input. To round out the story, I couldn't resolve it myself. It turns out one of the circulator pumps had failed. Had Mike Mahoney fix it. Thanks again.

10-01-2010, 04:02 PM	#15
tummyman Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 791 Thanks: 236 Thanked 635 Times in 230 Posts	Purging System I had an old plumber show me a trick when purging the system. Use a hose from the boiler and run it into a 5 gallon pail full of water. When you open the purge valve, you will actually see all the air bubbles come out of the system bubbling up in the 5 gallon pail. When the bubbles stop, you are done. Simple but effective.