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Kracken · 09-04-2009, 11:10 AM

Elchase- Thanks. When a majority is so overwhelming, it usually is absolutely right.

Nice spin, I was referring to your assessment that this poll does not include the opinions of a significant number of winnipesaukee.com members. My point was that most people consider the speed limit debate insignificant.

Elchase- Based on the interest in this topic among the GFBL crowd, I'm sure that all 100% of the GFBL members voted and a negligible percentage of the non-GFBL members voted. Had all 4000+ voted, I'm sure you'd see numbers much closer to those ARG found in their legit poll. In fact, the numbers would have to agree within +/- 3%, according to the laws of statistics. Was the poll limited to logged-in members? To pre-existing members? It would be interesting to know how many voters were recruited from the other GFBL sites to vote in this "poll".

You are not suggesting “the other side” stuffed the ballot box are you? What evidence do you have of that? (See post about outrageous unsubstantiated claims)

Elchase - Check your history. The bill had already passed the House and Senate by wide margins and was just awaiting the Governor's already-promised signature.

The House passed the previous speed limit bills only to be defeated in the senate. On HB 847 the senate approved the bill by 14-10 one month prior to the accident. 14-10 is hardly an overwhelming number. However HB 847 is a 2 year law and is now being considered to override the sunset law conveniently around the same time as the trial of Erica Blizzard. Is it merely coincidence they want to make a temp law permanent right in the shadows of Erica Blizzards trial?

Elchase- Check your history. There have been numerous high-speed boating accidents on the lake. And please don't give the usual "prove it" response. The research has been done many times and posted on this forum. At least three GFBL boats have flipped on Winnipesaukee in the past ten years at speeds over 70MPH. Boats have been driven up onto islands numerous times at night at high speeds. Do some Googling. But don't rely on MP citation records...there was no speeding law to cite the drivers with.

Just the facts sir.

How many non-GFBL had accidents on the lake at speeds under 45 MPH in the past 10 years? Has there EVER been a boat to boat accident when a performance boat traveling at a high rate of speed on Lake Winnipesaukee?

Elchase- It sure is...because they say it over and over and over again. They want a lake that they feel safe boating on...like the one we saw this summer. It's telling that those who fought for the law are so happy with it, and those who opposed it are so unhappy with it. Doesn't that say it all? Who is more believable, the person who was a victim and now says "This law is working great, I don't feel victimized anymore, please keep it", or the person who was an offender and now says "This law is not working. I'm still offending as much as ever and nobody is doing anything about it...but please eliminate it." It defies logic to see so many former victims working so hard to keep a law and so many former offenders working so hard to remove the law if it is doing nothing. Of course it is effective. Otherwise, why all the fuss?

Yes some people (like you) want to feel safe while boating. Others would prefer to keep redundant and unenforceable laws off the books so the Marine Patrol can concentrate on the laws that actually make people safer.

09-04-2009, 11:10 AM	#45
Kracken Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Alton Posts: 223 Thanks: 46 Thanked 130 Times in 50 Posts	elchase Elchase- Thanks. When a majority is so overwhelming, it usually is absolutely right. Nice spin, I was referring to your assessment that this poll does not include the opinions of a significant number of winnipesaukee.com members. My point was that most people consider the speed limit debate insignificant. Elchase- Based on the interest in this topic among the GFBL crowd, I'm sure that all 100% of the GFBL members voted and a negligible percentage of the non-GFBL members voted. Had all 4000+ voted, I'm sure you'd see numbers much closer to those ARG found in their legit poll. In fact, the numbers would have to agree within +/- 3%, according to the laws of statistics. Was the poll limited to logged-in members? To pre-existing members? It would be interesting to know how many voters were recruited from the other GFBL sites to vote in this "poll". You are not suggesting “the other side” stuffed the ballot box are you? What evidence do you have of that? (See post about outrageous unsubstantiated claims) Elchase - Check your history. The bill had already passed the House and Senate by wide margins and was just awaiting the Governor's already-promised signature. The House passed the previous speed limit bills only to be defeated in the senate. On HB 847 the senate approved the bill by 14-10 one month prior to the accident. 14-10 is hardly an overwhelming number. However HB 847 is a 2 year law and is now being considered to override the sunset law conveniently around the same time as the trial of Erica Blizzard. Is it merely coincidence they want to make a temp law permanent right in the shadows of Erica Blizzards trial? Elchase- Check your history. There have been numerous high-speed boating accidents on the lake. And please don't give the usual "prove it" response. The research has been done many times and posted on this forum. At least three GFBL boats have flipped on Winnipesaukee in the past ten years at speeds over 70MPH. Boats have been driven up onto islands numerous times at night at high speeds. Do some Googling. But don't rely on MP citation records...there was no speeding law to cite the drivers with. Just the facts sir. How many non-GFBL had accidents on the lake at speeds under 45 MPH in the past 10 years? Has there EVER been a boat to boat accident when a performance boat traveling at a high rate of speed on Lake Winnipesaukee? Elchase- It sure is...because they say it over and over and over again. They want a lake that they feel safe boating on...like the one we saw this summer. It's telling that those who fought for the law are so happy with it, and those who opposed it are so unhappy with it. Doesn't that say it all? Who is more believable, the person who was a victim and now says "This law is working great, I don't feel victimized anymore, please keep it", or the person who was an offender and now says "This law is not working. I'm still offending as much as ever and nobody is doing anything about it...but please eliminate it." It defies logic to see so many former victims working so hard to keep a law and so many former offenders working so hard to remove the law if it is doing nothing. Of course it is effective. Otherwise, why all the fuss? Yes some people (like you) want to feel safe while boating. Others would prefer to keep redundant and unenforceable laws off the books so the Marine Patrol can concentrate on the laws that actually make people safer.