[Rob]

Thanks to LRSLA for so many detailed and informative posts. Your lack of hyperbole and rhetoric coupled with your neutral tone and calm responses are appreciated.

Let me clarify some comments I made earlier. The first post of this thread was a simple question, which was quickly answered by our de facto legal counsel. (Thanks Skip). After another round of question and answer, this thread would have concluded, barely 90 minutes after it started.

Instead it metastasized into something that I doubt the initiating poster ever intended. Personally, I felt that the accusations regarding allegations of the initiating poster's behavior elsewhere, coupled with claims regarding his intentions in visiting Winnipesaukee were a bit much, to say the least, and I was attempting to lighten the situation with humor, not to attack the LRSLA.

I'm happy to hear that your decision to pull the videos was a voluntary one. I hope that it goes without saying that I was neither aware nor involved in any sort of hostile activity regarding your web server, as has been alleged. In the event that you continue to have questions regarding my conduct in this matter, feel free to contact me via private message or email.

I'd like to ask you for clarification on few points.

The green scarab was tested at 1/2 mile at 72db, this would mean that he
would have to be at least 95 dB operational at 50 feet

How do you calculate the reduction in dB level over distance? Also, I would think that some consideration is made for the 'size' of the volume source. I read that a telephone dial tone is 80 dB. I can believe that, when it's up against one's ear, it's certainly loud enough. But move that telephone receiver 5 feet away, and one would barely be able to hear it. On the other hand, 5 feet would do nearly nothing to dissipate the volume of say, a power saw or a boat engine.

Boats in Maine must meet the 95db and the 75db limits

I thought Maine's was 75/90? (there is a link further down this post with a chart)

NH has a mandatory operator certification program.
Maine does not and probably should, but these programs are
hard to pass into law.

According to US Coast Guard Statistics, in 2002, 80% percent of fatalities occurred on boats where the operator had not taken a boater education course. In other years, the number has been even higher. http://www.uscgboating.org/statistics/Boating_Statistics_2002.pdf

In light of that one statistic, I would think that working toward mandatory boater education in Maine would(and I submit, should) be the primary(if not the only) item on your organization's agenda, particularly if you've now managed to get the noise laws enforced.

Just for comparison(we should realize how complete New Hampshire’s boater education law is), here is a link to a table showing boater education requirements by state. http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/stateregs.htm

18 states have no boater education law whatsoever. 7 require boater education for PWCs only(not boats), and some of those only require education for PWC operators of a certain age. Many states do have a mandatory education requirement, but it is only for say, people born in 1989 or later(Kansas), with no phase in at all, i.e., people in Kansas born before 1989 will never have to take boater education. Many of the states that require boater education only require it for those operators who are 12 to 18 years of age (Illinois, Kentucky), so you could buy a boat at 19 with no education whatsoever. In Idaho, boater education is required only for (get this) ‘Repeat marine offenders, those convicted of OUI or aggravated BUI’. Only a few states currently mandate education for all ages, or (like New Hampshire) are phasing it in.

Personally, I had no idea that New Hampshire was so strict with regard to boating safety. Why, I keep hearing that New Hampshire's laws are benign. (By design, I'm told.)

By the way, another state that has a mandatory boater education law is Florida. Apparently the pop singer Gloria Estefan was instrumental in getting legislation passed there. Yup, thats right. She was involved in a well known fatal accident in which an inexperienced jet skier came too close to her boat, lost control, and slammed into the side. All sources reported the Estefan's boat was traveling in a straight line, at barely 20 miles per hour. After the accident, Ms. Estefan, (who herself had already taken three different boating training classes,) paid her own way to testify before the Florida Legislature. (Well, there's so much information about this hard working advocate for safe boating laws in Florida that I'll just let you all read for yourselves- google "gloria estefan" and "boating accident")

In conversations that I have had with owners of boats of all sizes, the number one comment I hear is not about noise, size, speed, or lack of law enforcement, its about people who don't know the basic rules regarding right of way, safe distances and when to use headway speed.

I also recently read the results of a survey conducted on an offshore powerboat enthusiast site that indicated that the majority supported mandatory boater education. I would like to respectfully point out that if offshore boaters support boater education, and the LRSLA’s efforts at boater safety are not just focused on noise reduction, then the offshore boaters and the LRSLA can find common ground by helping to pass legislation in areas related to boating education and safety.


I want to ask the LRSLA if, in hindsight, there are things that you would do differently in terms of how you approached boaters, marinas, and local law enforcement regarding the LRSLA's concerns. I'm not looking to trip you up here, but rather to learn from your experience as to what we on Lake Winnipesaukee can do to make progress in boating safety without putting people on the defensive.

For example, new boat sales- I think it is only fair to acknowledge that barely 50% of the states have an enforceable boat noise law on the books.(see link further down this post) Because of this, boat manufacturers treat exhaust systems as an a la carte option. The cost of marine exhaust systems is by no means insignificant, and I am certain that in many cases, those who decline the exhaust options do so because of price, combined with a lack of understanding of what the law requires. I was wondering to what extent your efforts at noise reduction include making sure that marinas and boat retailers are aware of the fact that they may be selling boats that, from day one, do not meet the dB requirements of your state?

Also, you mentioned that:

LRSLA made many attempts to warn High performance boaters that enforcement was going to ramp up this year.

How exactly did you warn these boaters? To what extent did the warnings come from an 'official' (non-private, or non-LRSLA) source? Do you feel that the warnings would have had a different impact depending on the source? In other words, a private citizens group saying 'your boat is too loud' as opposed to the Marine Patrol saying 'Next year, if your boat is this loud, it will be a ticket and a fine'?

The link below leads to a table originally from Powerboat magazine, showing the noise laws of the 50 states.

http://home.columbus.rr.com/mtboats/noiselaws.html

(I'm aware of the fact that this is from 2002, it was the most current and complete list that I could find. If anyone has a newer one, please let me know and I'll change the link)

According to this table, 31 states currently have boat noise laws; 20 have none. Of 31 states with laws, two use the standard of 'Reasonable Level', one uses the phrase 'Must be adequately muffled', and one state (Massachusetts) requires boats to meet 'Federal Standards', which I believe is 80 dB. I'm sure that Skip can explain to us the likelihood of convicting someone for violating a law that uses the phrase 'Reasonable Level' in place of a measurable standard.

So, according to this chart, barely half of the states have enforceable noise level laws. New Hampshire is one of the few that does. Researching this post has been a real eye opener for me, I can tell you that. I was starting to believe those stories about New Hampshire’s benign (by design) laws. It's good to see that New Hampshire is ahead of so many states in it's approach to boat noise laws and boater education. Perhaps it’s due to all those students from Massachusetts and other states who regularly vote in New Hampshire elections. (I’m only repeating what I’m told here on the forum.)

Of the states with noise laws, there are several different standards, but they fall into a few specific groups. After people have a chance to look at the link, I would be interested to hear what people think of New Hampshire’s dB level and how it compares to other states. In other words, is the law acceptable as it’s written and is enforcement the problem, is it neither, or both? I should acknowledge that Mee-n-Mac previously brought this up in an attempt to get the thread back on track, but I thought I would restate it here.

Well, I suppose that's enough for now. I hope no one fell asleep reading this .

Rob