[Mee-n-Mac]

I wasn’t going to bother to reply because I’m now at the point of repeating myself but I thought this year’s “off-shore” debate deserves a summary (for the 3 or 4 left reading). So here’s my final rebuttal, summary and, forgive me gentle forum readers, a self indulgence.

Originally Posted by madrasahs

These accidents indicate risk-taking personalities. That's fine in sky-diving, diving, shark-petting, snowmobile skimming, snake-charming, lion-taming, box-comb jellyfish collecting, venomous snake photography, mountain climbing, bullfighting, tarantula training, and auto racing -- on a closed track.

Careful here, you’re sounding like the person at the helm has some bearing on the issue. You’re forgetting your mantra – “It’s the boat not the driver”. But more seriously don’t you think there are other boaters who have the same risk-taking personality but lack the $$ to afford an “off-shore” ? Aren’t you worried about the more numerous, less well healed misusing their “lake-sized” speedboats ? Is this really a speed issue disguished as an “off-shore” issue for you?

Originally Posted by madrasahs

But these Offshores take too much of the lake from us -- we who are absorbed with family boating, or sailing, or rafting, or "just drifting" -- Risk-Averse behavior.

What do you ask yourself when one of these things turns into your cove entry and guns the throttles, closing in at a mile-a-minute or, likely even faster?..."Using-up the lake" at a rate of an acre every few seconds*?

Is he sober? Drugged**? Distracted? Cellphone-using? Cellphone ringing? Adjusting his trim? Turnout? Got a sticky throttle? Is he in litigation? A divorce? Having a "bad carb moment"? Is the owner at the helm? Or his girlfriend? Is he looking at you? Or at the scenery? At the beer supply? At the gas supply? Did he just drop his sandwich? His cigar? Can he see over his own bow? Does he call you a "speed bump"? Does he have his safety equipment disengaged? Is he even competant?

These are all fine questions. Questions that could be asked about anyone piloting the many non-“off-shores” that are on the lake. Unless you don’t think that these boats (to use your reasoning) don’t or can’t kill. If that’s the case I have some links which I’ll present below, ‘Madrasah style’, for your edutainment. Are these "lake sized" boats incapable of a “lunatic mishap” ? Did these boats sing some siren song of mayhem or is that music reserved solely for “off-shores” ?? Are these the results of risk taking personality change caused by the boat ???

Originally Posted by madrasahs

Prepare to engage your Intellect: They have killed -- and do kill -- and are killing.

OK Cap’t Picard, I’m engaged. The power of that statement all by itself convinces me – not. Honestly this is where I don’t understand you but, just for the moment, let’s say that if a boat is involved in a collision with another boat, that it’s somehow a result of the boat’s intrinsics and not driver behavior. If the boat type is too blame for the accident then all I request is that this same “logic” be applied to all boats. Then sure the “off-shores” kill but what then do I make of these… ?

http://abc26.trb.com/wgno-boatfatal0...ll=wgno-home-1 (21’ runs over 18’ flatboat, man + son killed)

http://www.mswp.state.mo.us/news/NRD...t=20&ID=030075 (24’ four winns – 16’, resulting a death and critical injury)

Since you like to drag up old incidents here’s one you’ll appreciate -
http://junior.apk.net/~weberoo/ferry/html/redwreck.html (17 cruiser into ferryboat, 2 dead, 32 injured)

http://www.mswp.state.mo.us/news/NRD...t=40&ID=040042 (bass boat hits bass boat, resulting in a death)

How are these for risky operation -
https://www.piersystem.com/external/...cumentID=23150 (15’ hits 23’)

http://www.mswp.state.mo.us/news/NRD...ct=3&ID=040059 (24’ searay hits 20’ playcraft deckboat which was drfiting)

http://www.uscg.mil/news/D5/Atlantic...5AC_008-02.htm (18’ hits 14’)

http://www.tribnet.com/news/local/st...-5205684c.html (23’ hits 17’)

Even the big cruiser guys aren’t safe from the menacing runabout crowd -
http://www.mswp.state.mo.us/news/NRD...t=40&ID=040035 (22 crownline runabout runs into a silverton)

http://www.mswp.state.mo.us/news/NRD...t=60&ID=010112 (bassboat hits pontoon boat)

http://www.mswp.state.mo.us/news/NRD...ct=3&ID=040019 (17’ bass hits 18’ bass which was drifting)

http://www.mswp.state.mo.us/news/NRD...ct=3&ID=030150 (bassboat hits bassboat)

Boy these bassboat guys are busy -
http://www.mswp.state.mo.us/news/NRD...t=40&ID=020131 (bassboat hits bassboat)

http://www.mswp.state.mo.us/news/NRD...t=40&ID=020122 (20 baja hits bayliner runabout)

This one is for BR
http://www.mswp.state.mo.us/news/NRD...t=80&ID=000098 (sunbird towing tuber hits stingray skiboat which was idling)

http://www.mswp.state.mo.us/news/NRD...=100&ID=000024 (20 imp hits 19 maxum)

http://www.mswp.state.mo.us/news/NRD...=120&ID=980125 (deckboat hits lund which was drifting)

Apparently this guy must have thought he had a big “off-shore”, we’ll give him the overachiever award -
http://www.mswp.state.mo.us/news/NRD...=120&ID=980139 (bassboat hits 80’ excursion boat )

Geesh, a whole new type of dangerous watercraft. Were not even safe on the land -
http://a.www.orlandoweather.com/weat...88/detail.html (airboat hits airboat)

I’ll toss you a bone IR, aahhh, Madrasahs. You and the anti -PWC crowd can argue who gets credit -
http://www.mswp.state.mo.us/news/NRD...ict=&ID=040078 (40’ formula hits PWC which cut in front of the “off-shore”)

I could have listed many more but there’s enough to show that there’s other boats that kill and collide as well. I guess it’s not just the “off-shores” which are risky and/or killers. Perhaps you’ll have to widen your pogrom.

Originally Posted by madrasahs

We disagree: Concern was warrented on August 12th, 2002, and too many other occasions before and since.

For me to understand you’d have to explain how the “offshore-ness” of the boat in this case led to the incident. There were no mile-a-minute speeds or other risk-taking maneuvers involved here. Nothing that couldn’t, hasn’t, happened with a “lesser” boat. Don’t think so, try this story, and see if it sounds familiar.

http://www.lifesaving.com/news/news_articles/news40.htm (19’ Mariah, going 30 mph after dinner and drinks, hits 20’ Bayliner, possibly w/o lights, killing both occupants of the Bayliner plus 2 dead on the “killer Mariah”, police chief claims worst accident damage in 21 years)

So should the boat be blamed? Think you’re safe if the “off-shores” go away ?? Think that smaller boats are safe for the rest of us ???
p.s. - Wasn't it was Aug 11, 2002 around 9:30 pm ?

Originally Posted by madrasahs

Heck, I've got three Offshore-Manslaughter cases from last season alone. All three involve fleeing the scene -- interesting behavior for risk-taking personalities, eh?

I would have said despicable behavior but again you’re sounding like the person, who has the personality, is responsible. Must repeat “boat not driver”, “boat not driver”, do not think, “boat not driver …

Originally Posted by madrasahs

I'm not a fan of drinking while sky-diving, diving, shark-petting, snowmobile skimming, snake-charming, lion-taming, box-comb-jellyfish collecting, venous snake photography, mountain climbing, bullfighting, tarantula training, and auto racing -- on a closed track.
Or boating.

Good, I’d have been very surprised if you were. But if safety were really the “crux” for your diatribes, I'll suggest again you’d have more beneficial effect by removing alcohol from the scene rather than any single boat type. It has a more detrimental effect on safety than the boat type.

Originally Posted by madrasahs

"Killer Offshores"? A "Killer Offshores" term would be appealing to Emotion...

Now where did I get that term ? I know I didn’t invent it. Where o where did I pick it up from. There was this open letter than mentioned “killer-thrillers” and “off-shores” but not the combined term. Oh yeah I remember, it was here...

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/oldforu...mes;read=70807

Who is that “IR” guy anyway. Seems to argue using emotion rather than reason.


My summary – it’s the person who’s either capable or not, responsible or not. If he/she is not, then tragedy awaits and is not dependant on boat type. Given the relative numbers of “lake boats” compared to “off-shores”, any “fix” based on boat type won’t even dent the (perceived) safety problem.

Now I do fear we're behind schedule on this year's annual forum rants. I've left my planner at work, can someone please tell me what's next on the list?