Winnipesaukee Forum - View Single Post - Where is the money for HB-162 going to come from?

Woodsy · 02-07-2006, 09:39 AM

APS...

If you want to knock down the $2500 for recurring sign costs, so be it. It isn't all that big of an expense. I am assuming that like highway signs, some will be stolen, some will also be damaged by some bonehead who doesn't know how to drive a vehicle towing a trailer. One of my favorite pastimes is watching the sunday afternoon follies at the Meredith Boat Ramp.

Fat Jack...

Scare tactics? I don't think so. You are (AGAIN) wrong about the signs. You know, for someone who claims to be the most educated NH citizen (last I checked you lived in MA) on Speed Limits, I would have expected you to know what signs are actually posted on our public boat launches here on Lake Winnipesaukee. There are no signs required at all on private boat launches. If you go to the public boat launches, there is a really, really small sign for the 150' Safe passage Law. There is also a small sign about being careful for divers, and a really big one for milfoil. There are NO signs informing anyone about the requirement for a SAFE BOATING CERTIFICATE. I have mentioned this to several of the reps I talked with, and they thought it was rather odd that there were no signs that spoke to that requirement.

You speak of wanting better boating safety, yet you oppose spending the money for signage? How are people supposed to be informed? Word of mouth? Perhaps by the MP when they get stopped for a violation they didn't know about? How is the ever important day tripper or the golden goose tourist supposed to know? The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

Your statement that "the Seacoast is out…we need no officers there" is a blatently ignorant statement. We only have 15 FT Marine Patrol Officers, most of whom spend thier winter enforcing the laws on the seacoast, specifically Newcastle, most often tasked to harbor patrol in Portsmouth. They are not "polishing thier shoes in Glendale" as you so aptly stated. Your lack of respect for the MP is clearly evident in your statements. Are you suggesting that all of the senior FT MP officers should be posted to Lake Winnipesaukee during the summer busy season, leaving nothing but PT officers to patrol the Seacoast and the rest of the state? As I stated above, its a manpower/resources issue. The House passed an amendment to remove the Ocean from the bill... The many rivers along the coast along with the entire Great Bay estuary is still covered by the proposed law and will need equal enforcement. Did you forget about the Piscatiqua River (sp)? You know, the river we share with Maine? It was discussed in the debate. However, the House refused to delineate where the oceans boundary actually begins. There was no wording in that amendment that limited the law to "navigable freshwater lakes and rivers".

You speak of income derived from speeding tickets? Your implying that the amount of speeding tickets issued by the MP will cover the costs incurred? You have got to be kidding me! That statement isn't true of speeding tickets issued by NH State Police, and they issue alot more tickets than the MP ever will. Your also assuming that the boat speeding ticket holds up in court. It will be interesting to see how a judge decides the case when you have a letter from the manufacturer saying the unit is inaccurate, and states the reasons why its inaccurate. Your much touted Lake George, by thier own admission only wrote 5-6 tickets for speeding last year. According to my source (somewhat reliable, but not foolproof) the tickets issued weren't for going over 45 MPH, but for PWC's speeding (on plane) within 500' of shore. The House also did not delineate a fee structure in HB-162. As of right now a ticket may count against your license, but they did not set the fines for speeding. I highly doubt it will be $500 per offense as you suggest. I am sure it will be more along the line of a graduated fee structure like we have in place for cars. That language needs to be included in the bill before it becomes law. Most of the money derived from automobile speeding offenses goes to the SP Academy, Court admistration costs, and the State General Fund, I assume the same will apply to speeding tickets issued by the MP. I highly doubt any money will be kicked back to the MP at all. HB-162 will cost approximately $100,000 per year in officer overtime and court costs.

There will not be a huge economic boost. Prior to 9/11 and the subsequent higher fuel prices, the hotels on this Lake were close to capacity all summer. With the exception of Church Landing, there hasn't been any new hotels built on the Lake. In fact there has been a huge reduction of rentable hotel rooms as alot of the mom & pop motels have been sold and have converted to condos. The marinas around the lake are pretty much at capacity as well. So where do you think this huge additional economic boost will come from? I am interested to know!

As far as the training goes, it really doesn't matter when it occurs. I did not imply that the training would occur during the busy summer season. I assume it will be during the off season, or just before ice out, as some on the water training will be required. The on-water training will have to occur on a fresh water source as the water density is different from salt water and it will effect the radar unit. because you just can't send everyone away to class in february, they will probably need to run the MP's thru 3 classes at 5 men each. The cost is still 30 weeks of salary for the 15 officers, plus whatever the cost is for the class at the SP Academy, I stand by my estimate of $80,000 to $100,000.

I did get a speeding ticket dismissed because I challenged the units accuracy. In fact the unit had not been recalibrated in well over a year. It was a small handheld unit in use by a local police force. The officer admitted to dropping it earlier that day as well. As far as your statement as to wit "do I feel lucky"... I am not really all that concerned about it. If HB-162 passes I can go and buy a radar detector if I feel so inclined. I can also sell the Donzi and get a cabin cruiser instead. Maybe I will get a nice twin outboard center console fish boat? I am not leaving either way.

Woodsy

The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

02-07-2006, 09:39 AM	#11
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,966 Thanks: 80 Thanked 980 Times in 440 Posts	APS... If you want to knock down the $2500 for recurring sign costs, so be it. It isn't all that big of an expense. I am assuming that like highway signs, some will be stolen, some will also be damaged by some bonehead who doesn't know how to drive a vehicle towing a trailer. One of my favorite pastimes is watching the sunday afternoon follies at the Meredith Boat Ramp. Fat Jack... Scare tactics? I don't think so. You are (AGAIN) wrong about the signs. You know, for someone who claims to be the most educated NH citizen (last I checked you lived in MA) on Speed Limits, I would have expected you to know what signs are actually posted on our public boat launches here on Lake Winnipesaukee. There are no signs required at all on private boat launches. If you go to the public boat launches, there is a really, really small sign for the 150' Safe passage Law. There is also a small sign about being careful for divers, and a really big one for milfoil. There are NO signs informing anyone about the requirement for a SAFE BOATING CERTIFICATE. I have mentioned this to several of the reps I talked with, and they thought it was rather odd that there were no signs that spoke to that requirement. You speak of wanting better boating safety, yet you oppose spending the money for signage? How are people supposed to be informed? Word of mouth? Perhaps by the MP when they get stopped for a violation they didn't know about? How is the ever important day tripper or the golden goose tourist supposed to know? The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid. Your statement that "the Seacoast is out…we need no officers there" is a blatently ignorant statement. We only have 15 FT Marine Patrol Officers, most of whom spend thier winter enforcing the laws on the seacoast, specifically Newcastle, most often tasked to harbor patrol in Portsmouth. They are not "polishing thier shoes in Glendale" as you so aptly stated. Your lack of respect for the MP is clearly evident in your statements. Are you suggesting that all of the senior FT MP officers should be posted to Lake Winnipesaukee during the summer busy season, leaving nothing but PT officers to patrol the Seacoast and the rest of the state? As I stated above, its a manpower/resources issue. The House passed an amendment to remove the Ocean from the bill... The many rivers along the coast along with the entire Great Bay estuary is still covered by the proposed law and will need equal enforcement. Did you forget about the Piscatiqua River (sp)? You know, the river we share with Maine? It was discussed in the debate. However, the House refused to delineate where the oceans boundary actually begins. There was no wording in that amendment that limited the law to "navigable freshwater lakes and rivers". You speak of income derived from speeding tickets? Your implying that the amount of speeding tickets issued by the MP will cover the costs incurred? You have got to be kidding me! That statement isn't true of speeding tickets issued by NH State Police, and they issue alot more tickets than the MP ever will. Your also assuming that the boat speeding ticket holds up in court. It will be interesting to see how a judge decides the case when you have a letter from the manufacturer saying the unit is inaccurate, and states the reasons why its inaccurate. Your much touted Lake George, by thier own admission only wrote 5-6 tickets for speeding last year. According to my source (somewhat reliable, but not foolproof) the tickets issued weren't for going over 45 MPH, but for PWC's speeding (on plane) within 500' of shore. The House also did not delineate a fee structure in HB-162. As of right now a ticket may count against your license, but they did not set the fines for speeding. I highly doubt it will be $500 per offense as you suggest. I am sure it will be more along the line of a graduated fee structure like we have in place for cars. That language needs to be included in the bill before it becomes law. Most of the money derived from automobile speeding offenses goes to the SP Academy, Court admistration costs, and the State General Fund, I assume the same will apply to speeding tickets issued by the MP. I highly doubt any money will be kicked back to the MP at all. HB-162 will cost approximately $100,000 per year in officer overtime and court costs. There will not be a huge economic boost. Prior to 9/11 and the subsequent higher fuel prices, the hotels on this Lake were close to capacity all summer. With the exception of Church Landing, there hasn't been any new hotels built on the Lake. In fact there has been a huge reduction of rentable hotel rooms as alot of the mom & pop motels have been sold and have converted to condos. The marinas around the lake are pretty much at capacity as well. So where do you think this huge additional economic boost will come from? I am interested to know! As far as the training goes, it really doesn't matter when it occurs. I did not imply that the training would occur during the busy summer season. I assume it will be during the off season, or just before ice out, as some on the water training will be required. The on-water training will have to occur on a fresh water source as the water density is different from salt water and it will effect the radar unit. because you just can't send everyone away to class in february, they will probably need to run the MP's thru 3 classes at 5 men each. The cost is still 30 weeks of salary for the 15 officers, plus whatever the cost is for the class at the SP Academy, I stand by my estimate of $80,000 to $100,000. I did get a speeding ticket dismissed because I challenged the units accuracy. In fact the unit had not been recalibrated in well over a year. It was a small handheld unit in use by a local police force. The officer admitted to dropping it earlier that day as well. As far as your statement as to wit "do I feel lucky"... I am not really all that concerned about it. If HB-162 passes I can go and buy a radar detector if I feel so inclined. I can also sell the Donzi and get a cabin cruiser instead. Maybe I will get a nice twin outboard center console fish boat? I am not leaving either way. Woodsy The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.