[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Evenstar...

Originally Posted by Woodsy

It doesn't matter where the deaths have occurred. The reality of the situation is kayaks and canoes account for the largest percentage of fatalities, almost all of them drownings that were preventable if they were wearing a PFD. The U.S. Coast Guard report, and the NTSB Boater Safety Alert make this point abundantly clear.

Read the 2004 U.S. Coast Guard Report. I think the data you should read is on page 10. To summarize, there were 136 Canoes/Kayaks involved in accidents, resulting in 98 deaths. Of those 98 deaths 95 were from drowning! 5 deaths were classified as other. It doesn't break down the percentage of those drowning deaths that were the result of not wearing a PFD, but I bet its a pretty high pertcentage... say 90% or so were not wearing a PFD!

First of all I never said that I was against wearing a PFD – in fact, I actually said that “Not wearing one isn't very smart”. My comparison with not wearing a helmet was valid, because both are omissions for personal safety and are not dangerous to others on the lake/highway. Yet traveling at high speed is potentially dangerous to other boaters/drivers.

My point about the statistics was that statistical reports are only useful when all the facts are known and when the two items being compared are under the same conditions (or in the same environment).

Were talking about boating safely on lakes here, and the data being used covers more than just lakes – and I’m guessing that a large proportion of kayaks and canoe deaths were on rivers - so it does indeed matter where the deaths occurred – otherwise the statistics have no real meaning. Trying to compare paddling on flat water to paddling on white water is like trying to compare waterskiing to downhill skiing.

In the article linked at the beginning of this thread, what is actually written is: “In 2005 manually powered vessels, such as canoes and kayaks, accounted for 20 deaths, while motorized vessels accounted for 19”. So the 20 deaths were for ALL manually powered vessels (which could include anything without a motor – even something not at all seaworthy), not just canoes and kayaks. This article doesn’t give how many of these deaths occurred because of drowning, or how many of the victims were wearing PFDs?

According to the 2004 USCG report:
On page 10 it gives that 93 of the 98 canoe/kayak fatalities were from drowning, but it never gives how many of these victims were wearing a PFD, or how many happened on white water. It’s not at all uncommon to drown in white water or in very cold water while wearing a PFD.

On the same page of the report it gives that 244 of the Open Motorboat fatalities were from drowning. One of my points was that wearing a PFD is just as important in a powerboat as in a human powered boat. Yet how many adults wear a PFD in a powerboat? It’s been my experience that most kayakers wear PDFs.

That same report also gives: “Alcohol was involved in approximately one-third of all boating fatalities in 2004.”

One of my main points in my first post in this thread was that the argument for a speed limit goes way beyond just the number and the causes of boating fatalities – it’s about safety – both real and perceived (feeling safe) - and no one here is even responding to that. You guys just keep trying to bend the fatality statistics in an attempt to prove that we don’t need a speed limit.

You guys keep skipping over the accident statistics from the USCG report:
- “The most reported type of accident was a collision with another vessel.”
- “The most common types of boats involved in reported accidents were open motorboats (42%), personal watercraft (PWC) (25%) and cabin motorboats (15%).”

Your statement that paddlers have been hit by powerboats is also subject to interpretation. In 2004 there were 136 Canoes/Kayaks involved in accidents nationwide (see page 10 of the USCG report). Of those accidents 7 were from collisions with another boat. Only 7 collisions NATIONWIDE! Woodsy

Did you even read what is listed on page 5 of the report?
“This report does not include the following:
1. Accidents involving only property damage of less than $2,000. In calendar year 2004,
the Federal threshold of property damage for reports of accidents involving recreational vessels was $2,000 or more per accident.
2. Accidents involving only slight injury which did not require medical treatment beyond
first aid”

Most kayaks and canoes cost less than $2,000 – so unless someone is killed or hurt badly in a powerboat collision, the accident isn’t even part of these statistics. This means that a powerboat could run right over the front of my $1,700 kayak and the accident would never even make it into a USCG report, unless I’m hurt bad enough to see a doctor!

Funny how statistics can work both ways.