The Motor Ship Mount Washington
 

It appears that the work on the ship is coming along good. As I write this, I can see the welders cutting a hole on the starboard side. I appears the hole is going to be between the O and the N on the decal Mount. I have a ring side seat to all the action.

Ring side seat = Photo's to document the event !!

Attachment 3411 Can someone supply any??

We have been busy disassembling the old engines. Cote Contractors are setting up the rigging. Today Hewitt Welding cut the hole in the side.
Here are some pictures taken February 9 and 11.

I to am having no luck finding those pictures. Dying to see them.

Old Engine Pix
 

Found some pix on the website www.cruisenh.com/Captains_Blog.html

Great pics. Thank you. Are there any pictures out there of the cutting of the hull etc etc ??

I uploaded them but I will try it again. Maybe I should just send them to the webmaster.

Attachment 3420We appreciate your help and the time you are taking to please us all.:)

I don't know where the others went but here they are again. I must have done something wrong.

Good pictures. Could we maybe move the Mount WebCam around to the starboard side on shore so we could monitor ...second by second what's going on. Inquiring minds. :) . Yea Yea...I know the Cam has nothing to do with the Mount Management. Just wondering. :) NB

Second that request
 

Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Twin Kitty Cats?
 

V-12 marine Cat engines?

Caterpiler is #1 in marine diesel engines, bar none...

What will they be, MO SER# specks?...

Let us know, Captain Jim Morash!

Terry
_______________________________

..........x3!

It looks like you have Cote Rigging of Manchester moving the motors? They have moved many pieces of equipment for me.

That's a big Milton Cat Diesel(s) going into the Mount. Cat makes many a motor for tons of applications, I have a little exposure to them through work.

What is going to be the fate of the old engines?

Horse power of new engines
 

What is the horse power ratings of the new Milton Cat Diesels going into the Mount? I know that the old engines put out 615hp each.

Will the new ones have reverse gears?

Yes. Like the old engines, the new engines only go in one direction. However the new gearboxes, which connect each engine to a drive shaft, can be put in reverse while the engines are running. With the old gearboxes it took as long as 30 seconds to stop one/both engines, switch gears, and restart the engines.

As a side note, the new engines are much lighter than the old engines. Ballast will be added to the bilge to assist in stability.

Updated 03-MAR-10. After posting the above I was corrected. I had no idea that diesel engines could run backward. In doing some online research, reversing a bi-directional diesel engine is accomplished by shifting the gears on the cam shaft so that the valves open/close at a different time than when running forward. This requires bringing the engine to a complete stop before shifting the cam shaft. The diesel in my VW does not have this option, but then again, I can shift to reverse without stopping the engine.

New engines
 

Yes, that 30 second delay is probably responsible for a couple of near and actual groundings of the Mount. On a windy day, watching the Mount make its turn in Centre Harbor I watched it almost go ashore several times, and once into a boat house a couple of cottages down from us. Looks like that won't be happening anymore.

I noticed a large I-Beam sticking out the side of the Mount. Have they started lifting out the old engines or are the installing the new ones? What will be the fate of the old engines?

I noticed that also. Will post a photo.

old vs new
 

Bizer & Pineneedles - The two outgoing Enterprise engines were direct drive; no gearboxes. To reverse direction, the engines were stopped, then restarted with the opposite rotation. The two new Cats do have gearboxes, so may be kept running and shifted much like an ordinary boat would. There will still be a delay in shifting to allow the propellors to stop rotating first. This will be shorter, since the new equipment will also include shaft brakes.

The I-beam protruding from the Mount's starboard side.http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopo...Feb_10_008.JPG

New Engines Arrived
 

Just came by the Center Harbor docks a while ago and saw the rigging company unloading 2 Cat engines for the Mount.

The Mount Cam from yesterday still shows the truck unloading the engines. NB

http://www.cruisenh.com/mountcam.html

EDIT: 2:38 PM Wed. I think the DATE on the Mount Cam is 24 hours behind.

Engines
 

It looks like the engines came in for the Mount Washington since there was alot of activity in Center Harbor

Here are some photos that I took today...

http://www.bizer.com/lwmountw/103031...outEngines.jpg

http://www.bizer.com/lwmountw/103035...stallation.jpg

http://www.bizer.com/lwmountw/10303a8_StillRolling.jpg

http://www.bizer.com/lwmountw/10303h...ourNewHome.jpg

Green?
 

I heard a bit on news 9 tonight about the Mount 'going green'... how does that factor in? Is that an initiative for all operations, or just the engine room?

I applaud the effort, wither way. I think every bit helps.

Just today, for a laugh to share, my 4 year old insisted that I get a cup with triangle on the bottom for him to drink from - so he knows that it was recycled. Now, I didn't teach him to be quite THAT insistent, but I support it! (They were both recyclable, but I got the one 'with the triangle' anyway.)

WMUR story
 

Here is a link to the video:
http://www.wmur.com/video/22733147/index.html

text story:
http://www.wmur.com/news/22732651/detail.html

Reading today's LaDaSun article informs that the two old engines were two-stroke diesel w/ the crankshafts connected directly to the propeller driveshafts, so's going from forward to reverse required engines to be shut down and stopped turning before restarting, engaged in reverse direction.....in the old method.

The new setup now has either one or two transmissions as there are two, new Caterpillar 4-stroke diesels, so the ship can go from forward to reverse very quickly and without having to turn off the engine.

Are the new transmissions automatic or manual with a clutch pedal & stick shift, and how many forward gears? This is a serious question......thanks in advance.

Ya knows....those two old engines were extremely, extremely QUIET.....jeesh....they were so QUIET.....it will be very difficult for the new engines to be more quiet than the old engines......and could be that the new engines will be louder......time will tell?

I have watched the Mount dock in Alton. After the final alignment a ways out the engines were cut off for a several seconds. Kind of eerie watching that silent glide waiting for the start-up in reverse. Must have made the crew nervous now and then knowing that a failure to restart would mean a crash but I never heard of that happening.
Now all they have to do is shift into reverse. What is the fun in that?:rolleye2:

More than likely, the transmissions will be either be electrically (drive by wire), hydraulically, or cable/throttle actuated. I can't quite tell from the pictures if those housings on the rear of the engines are the transmissions. They don't need to be very big. Our island is repowering one of our ferries this winter and although a much smaller scale, the same project. The attached pics are cell phone pics so sorry for the quaility.

BT

Sure looks like the same three guys are doing both Sebago & Winni engine jobs....same three guys....how about that! Cat's are always Caterpillar Yellow....and white is....Volvo?

Volvos are usually Green. This could be a Cummins. Cummins are White. This motor looks like a straight diesel....not turbo charged. Hard to tell. NB

Mounts engines
 

I found this on the 'Mounts' facebook page under captians blog #3. Hope this helps. Again this is from there blog site."Many are asking about the new engines specifics. Well, quite simply they are C-32 CATS, 12 cylinders each with a horsepower rating of 750hp at 1800 rpms. We will have a ZF Mathers 4:1 reduction gear to bring the rpms down to 450. The control systems will be ZF Mathers as well. In addition we will be installing shaft brakes for the first time on this vessel. This will quicken our stopping time in emergency situations. But don’t think we can stop on a dime from full speed ahead. It will still take us about a ¼ mile to stop the ship from full speed ahead. What these shaft brakes will do is give us better response time in docking and departure maneuvers."

space question
 

Do the new engines take up less room in the engine room?

I think they do,also because of the loss in ballast weight of the new power plants ballast will be added to maintain stability. Can't wait for ice out and a cruise.

Nope, different guys. Island employees and volunteers. One hired marine mechanic.

The engines are Northern Lights Luggers and yes they are turbo charged. The engines we took out were not turbos.

BT

I think there was more than one occasion where failure to start did result in a mishap.

I Have To Admit...
 

Seeing the M/S Mount Washington coming into berth at Weirs Beach many times that if there was ever a hick-Up in the drive-train that she'd have shoved us over into VERMONT!! :eek: :laugh:

She will be greener and also With the new automatic transmission, forward reverse and the drive shaft brakes, I for one will feel much better from now on! :look: :)


Terry
__________________________

Interesting Link
 

I just found this on the internet

http://www.oldtacomamarine.com/enterprise/specs.html

Thought I would pass it on

Going to miss................
 

the familiar drone of the old engine as she crosses the Broads. Usually it is quiet but on dreary days you can hear the Mount. I bet the V12 4 strokes are going to be a lot quieter then the 8 in line 2 strokes.

In days of old, you could hear the engines at night. Now you here the bands playing. Lately it's been pretty loud. :rolleye2:

The New Is Better, Trust Me...
 

idigtractors TOO... You need to know that all out here is not necessarily covered in the Forum threads. I too can drift away from time to time... :look:

No problem, just use your eyes and check out PhotoPost when you have a chance... ;)

This photo posted by our beloved webmaster should bring you back into the fold; http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopo....php?photo=143

Get my drift?


Terry
_________________________

Hi TRFOUR

Don posted that picture for me, way back before I'd gotten active on Winni.com.

That particular incident had nothing to do with the Mount's engines. If I recall correctly, she lost hydraulics. At any rate, she was almost down to her dock in Center Harbor when she had to shut everything down, and the wind took her into that boat house about half way up the bay.

My father and I were standing on the dock at Colonial Pines, and watched the whole episode.

Silver Duck

what did they do with the old engines?

Seems To Be A Slight Misunderstanding Here...
 

" That particular incident had nothing to do with the Mount's engines."


Hi Silver Duck. Yes, that must have been a spooky experience!
I'm with you 100%. The Enterprise engines would run indefinitely with good routine maintenance...

If not for the Grant, and Parts for these old engines being hard to find and purchase, they could have continued to power the M/S Mount Washington well into the future.

My point to "idigtractors" was that with the new Cat engines being much more fuel efficient and less polluting, and replacement parts being readily available, it's a win win situation and a very heads Up progressive move for all!...


Terry
_________________________

Progressive movement!! Your not one of "those" are you? When did this become political, anyway?:confused:

Completely kidding T, hopefully the Mount will be able to get more riders so it will be putting these new powerplants to good use. I know that I will be on this year, my wife has never been on the Mount and I know that the kids will love it.

If you read the posts, the CAT engines will use just as must fuel as the old engines. They have to power the same weight and the catalysts are not fuel efficient.

As for the Enterprise engines. Yes they can run forever. Parts are still available. If not a local machine shop can make the parts.

My '69 PowerWagon with a 318 is 6 mpg more efficient than my '98 Dakota 318. because of the pollution controls.

Yes, they use just as much fuel as the old Enterprise engines, but now the Mount can get up on plane. :)

A Two Part Reply...
 

Hi BH,

I won't bore you by going into the specifics, however let me say this about the New engines as follows.

#1. Just having the two turbo chargers each- ( = four ) :liplick: , they greatly increase fuel efficiency Burn in the combustion chamber, using less fuel by forcing more air into the mix allowing a much cleaner burn with less emissions.
Having an external catalytic exhaust system, filters out more of any pollutants that were not burned in the above process.

#2. It is Not At All Surprising To Me, that the New Cat Engines will use about the same aMOUNT of fuel as the old Enterprise engines did. :)
Now, at the same time one must remember that the Cats have four more hungry cylinders to feed fuel to ( = eight more cylinders twixt )

#3. Please listen closely and in his own words to Jim Morash The Captain and General Manager of The Mount Washington Cruises, in this video about the parts issue. http://multimedia.boston.com/m/25325...ly+Friendly%22


In closing, may I also say, about the old engines...
Diesel engines have no spark plugs, and rely on a tremendous amount of compression to ignite the fuel... It is not out of the realm of goings on, that a cylinder head can crack beyond repair...
Just as a for instance, imagine having one of these made at your local machine shop and having to pay their shop rate or overhead for them to make you a new one...:eek:
And consider the down time!
I think Not...


Regards


Terry
_________________________

Careful
 

They might outlaw that too! :eek:

John Force And The Boys...
 

I'm sure could Tune them new Cats up some, however the M/S Mount Washington's hull would need a redesigned with some ribs and wings for that ever to happen. :laugh: Horse power alone wouldn't get her done!

Sides, they'd have to rename her ( M/ S Tsunami Mama ) and there probably wouldn't be enough water left in the Lake for the rest of us after her first water test!! ;) :)


Terry
__________________________

Isn't it true that when when the engine job is done, we'll be able to wakeboard off the fantail? Just try to avoid getting the rope caught in the props.

mts wake
 

Back in 1958, my brother and I allowed my father to drive the puddy-tat and we went to the weirs. We were leaving the public docks and got caught behind the Mount (perhaps on Porpus) but the churning of the water made the mighty Puddy-tat go in circles.

For the younger generation let me say that the Mount did not go to Alton Bay without an escort, I am sure that Capt Lavalle (something like that) did not like that little black bug all that much. Sometimes we might have even got in the way.

But before they lengthened the Mount by 20' it had large wake and there were many a times that the little black boat would jump out of the water behind the mount. Today I am sad to say that they have outlawed that, and it was a lot of fun. I am and was very surprised that the wake of the mount was reduced after they lengthened it. I wonder if the new power plant will bring any of the wake back.:eek:

Sure - just ask Larry C from Peggy's Cove - we were in his families green boat and did some nice wake jumps and close cuts to the Mount. Big wake! It sure was FUN!!!! :cool:
He was 11 and I was 12. (1962) The MP were very nice and even gave us an escort back to Larry's dock. BTW the age to drive a boat with a 40HP back then was 12 and Larry was driving.:(

I believe I was in the Puddy Tat on at least one occassion that it was jumping the Mounts wake. I think they added Marine Patrol to cruise with the Mount when in Alton Bay due all the wake jumping and cutting close to the bow of the Mount. Could be that you were the reason JHB.

That's a blast from the past. In the 50's and 60's we use to go out and jump the Mount waves as it travels across The Broads. Even did it with a water skier behing the boat! :emb:

More Specificatins On The C-32 Engine Family...
 

Thank you AltonBay! I looked up the specs. on the C-32 engine family, and they come with a few different sauces.
( mild, medium and Hot ) ! :)

http://marine.cat.com/cda/files/9627...ngine.pdf?mode


Terry
______________________________

Through All Of The Currant...
 

If y'all want to talk about where our M/S Mount Washington will be in the future, I think she's in pretty good hands at this time. Maybe even better than we are. :eek:... It's great to know that her Management doesn't keep or believe in Stop watches.

" You Go Girl "!!!!

Terry
______________________

Can it pull skiers? Or wakeboarders...? ;)

ballast
 

They just added 72,000 lbs of concrete to the floor beams for ballast. They used several cement trucks and a pump truck to pump it in. It was relayed to me that the old engines were around 45,000 lbs each and the new engines are around 4500 lbs each. Thus the reason for the ballast.

HCG

making up ballast numbers?
 

I hope someone actually calculated the need to pump 72,000 lbs of cement into the the Mount for ballast as opposed to "well the old engines weighed 90K lbs and the new engines are 9K lbs, so I guess we need to make up the difference...." Placement of the weight is also a concern I would think?

They had a an engineer watching a level as they pumped it in. From what I understand it was done very slowly and very carefully.

And most of all....PRECISELY

A lot of nights we could hear the rumble of those big engines across the lake when the Mount was heading back to the Weirs. That won't be the case any more with the new lighter engines.

Not To Worry...
 

The M/S Mount Washington is in good hands and they all know very well just what they are doing.

Some are concerned about what the new engines will sound like...
Picture this... I've been working on engines, including Cat and All brands of Diesel engines for very close to sixty years. Caterpillar always had their very own unique sound.
Now, the interesting thing to me is that the twin 1500 horsepower Cats with the four turbos wining through the exhaust system will sound more like a 747! They may need to add mufflers after the catalytic exhaust to deal with this.
Yet here again I am sure that they have this all figured out, and that any of us that wants to take an afternoon nap will not be be disturbed when she passes by, although I would want the Captain to sound her hornes to awake me so that I could listen to them sweet sound'in Kitty Cats! :)



Terry
_____________________________

Terry, I don't think they're using the hot cats but the milder 750 versions.

Concrete for ballast?
 

Bit surprise to hear that they use concrete. Concrete is porous and loses weight when it is dry and can absorb moisture and gain weight. Are you sure they use concrete? In the maritime industry, one would pump or drain seawater from ballasts to maintain a certain level on a ship. The Mt would surely be a lot higher in the water caring no passengers versus a full load of passenger and crew if they can't change the weight of the ballast.

Also concrete being porous will rust out the steel hull. Unless the concrete is in a seperate container, but that will cause shifting in rough water.

If the Mt is flat bottom like a barge, then then changing ballast will be less significent problem than a boat with a round or V hull.

Does anyone know when the work is to be completed? Wish there were more pics of the progess too,like relocation of the web cam.

Sorry robmac, my goof.

What I meant was, twin 750s = 1500 HP. Cats. :emb:

It would've been fun if they had chosen the hot motors I can hear the turbos spooling up as she got underway.;)

Like at the air shows at Pease? Makes my spine tingles! :D

Attention, All Gear Heads...
 

Just shedding some more light on what a huge undertaking this engine swap project is all about.
Listen to Fred, Chief Engineer on the M/S Mount Washinton in this video blog part 2. http://www.cruisenh.com/videoblog2.html

They are much farther ahead with this, as the new Cat engines are already in place. I thought it fitting to catalog the progress here in this thread.

My hope is that they make a video when Fred gives the heads up, "Engine Room, Go'na Light The Candle." Give all us fans an idea of what the new Kitty Cats are going to sound like! :) :) :) :)


Terry
_________________________

I was a bit surprised too. But, concrete has been used as marine ballast in steel hulls successfully. If the hull was prepped properly (sanded, epoxied, etc.) and the concrete is a higher PSI rating (5000+) and sealed after its cured, it should be okay for the next 100 years.

I'd be curious to know if it was straight 'crete, or if punchings were added to the mix.

That is a great video thanks for putting it up for all to see. I can only imagine a repower of this size and how much work and effort it takes. Nice to see that they are methodically tagging and cataloging all the parts and pieces.

Hey robmac...
 

I am sure that the parts and pieces from our M/S Mount Washington's Enterprise Engines will be sought after so as to keep some other vessel, vessels going on, that were not ready, as yet to give up the Enterprise Engines... Grants Help, as you and we all know.

Having lived in the Lakes Region for so many years and being a fan of our M/S Mount Washington, I am Soooo happy that they chose Caterpillar engines to replace the old Enterprise's, as they are the very best and most efficient engines that money can buy these days... When it comes to Diesel Power, they've had and continue to have a lock on it... :)



Terry
_________________________________

M/S Mount Washington
 

Just a reminder of what AltnBay posted in entry #38.

M/S Mount Washington is on Facebook and they seem to be doing a great job with the updates and pictures.

Thank You Very Much, RG...
 

I agree, they do a good job. However I prefer winnipesaukee.com, as it adds some more sauce to the mix... :) :liplick: :look:


Terry
___________________________

Concrete? Whatever happened to NH granite cobblestones?:D

Cats are good engines but they will require more preventive & corrective maintenance and overhauls then the old Enterprise engines. The old engines were very forgiving. The new Cats will require more tender loving care. In addition, the longevity of these new engines will be far less than that of the old engines. Parts & technical assistance will be available for the new Cats so that is a big plus. Personally, I will miss seeing the long block Enterprise engines.

Hi moose tracks, the Enterprise was one of the best engines ever built. I will miss them too. However, pound for pound and with the light of today so ever being on Green, the Cats will shine.
Chief Engineer Jim knows all about maintenance. Keep the intake air clean, (change filters), keep the fuel clean, (change filters), keep the oil clean, (change oil and filters and take an oil sample and have it analyzed to catch any ware or coolant leaks before they become a problem, kind of like a blood test for humans).

A little off topic, although in the Trucking and Heavy Equipment industry, Cat recommended a main & connecting rod bearing inspection @ 300,000 miles, or so many hours. I have seen Cat engines go well over a million miles without even a tune up, with proper maintenance.


Terry
______________________________

sea trials
 

I heard they were scheduled for sea trials in Mid April...and that they were on time.

Can't wait.I want to be out on the water to hear the old girl all freshened up with the new power plants.

Not to turn this into an ice-out thread, but it seems pretty clear from the recent weather that the lake will easily be open and ready by then.

C32 engines under way
 

For us with foolish imaginations!!!Here's a link of the Cat. C32's underway at full throttle. I almost fell outta' my chair laughing with images of a planed out 'Mount in the broards headed for Alton. :laugh:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtW1qWw1RHI

Omg!
 

Once Winnfabs get a hold of this video, The Mt will be outlawed forever! :laugh:

GREAT VIDEO , yup that'll leave one heck of a wake.

Very nice! Beautiful engines. Given those were Jet Drives in that video on a Cat boat but definately a lot of power....

Those must be the 1600 HP variants. They trade HP for longevity.

Speaking of variants, I was looking at the Caterpillar engine brochure upthread http://marine.cat.com/cda/files/9627...ngine.pdf?mode and see that they go from 660 hp all the way to 1300 hp, holding RPMs constant at 1800, then up to 1600 hp @ 2300 RPM. This, all on the same displacement, with twin turbochargers?

Either the engines at the lower end, such as the 660s or the 750s in the Mount are going to last forever, or the 1600 hp units are really being pushed hard.

Question to those with experience with larger diesels such as these: Would the lubrication systems, internal parts such as pistons etc. be the same, or would things like the alloys used for identical-looking parts be different? Is the main difference simply in the injectors, turbo dump gates, and engine controls, plus a beefed up component list better able to take the heat and pressure or is it simply all done via engine controls and injection and turbo settings?

The Enterprise units did about 615 hp on something like 7 times the displacement of these new engines, though the former didn't have turbos I gather. That comparison, plus the differences in the C32 family itself, make for quite a range of power per unit displacement variations!

I'm pretty sure that above a certain HP range, CAT puts 4 turbos on the C32.

My gut says they'd have to modify the cooling and oiling systems on the high HP engines, just to keep them cool. You can't run a 1900 HP cooling system on a 600 HP engine or it'll never get to the corrrect operating temperature and that hurts longevity more than higher turbo pressure or RPM. I think it would be safe to assume they'd use different pistons and valves in the high HP variants, and you can be sure the fuel system is different. I bet the rods, crank and block are the same.

More Tech Specs For Us Gearheads
 

The Electronic Control Module (ECM) is the "brain" or center of the C32 ACERTengine control system.

The ECM uses the information
gathered by the sensors
which are located throughout
the engine and transmission
to monitor all aspects of
engine operation.
Connected to the ECM by the
wiring harness, the sensors
detect and convert changes in
pressure, temperature or
mechanical movement into
electrical signals. The electrical
signals are sent to the ECM.
The ECM uses information such
as desired engine speed, and
load to determine the fuel
injection pressure, timing and
duration. Based on sensor
inputs, the ECM actuates the
individual unit injectors to
control engine speed.
The customer connector allows
the engine’s ECM to interface
with Caterpillar monitoring
systems or other manufacturer’s
monitoring systems. These
systems display engineoperating
parameters such as
speed, load, fuel consumption,
temperature, pressure,
maintenance and diagnostic
information, as well as trip
and historical data. Additional
switches, lamps, and optional
components can be installed
and linked to the customer
connector.
The service technician
communicates with the ECM by
means of computer, cable, and
service tool connector, to
perform diagnostic tests and

modify operating parameters.

Find out more; http://marine.cat.com/cda/files/8895...20Controls.pdf



Terry
_____________________________________________

I know she's an old girl, but wouldn't it have been great to go with the twin turbos! Maybe a little propane injection to quickly get up on plane, and yank the props for a couple of jet drives...

OR, how about a couple of Arneson surface-piercing drives?? I wonder if they make a drive big enough for the Mount's needs? :)

The ASD 15 will handle a 2200 HP diesel engine. The ASD 16 and ASD 18 will handle lots more than that. I don't think the mount would ever do much better than 20.25 knots, regardless of power though.

More Renovations And Traditions...
 

Video blog # 3 http://www.cruisenh.com/videoblog3.html





Terry
____________________________________

I was reading the 2010 schedule and saw only 1 cruise on Tuesdays and Thursdays (1230pm) and no more 315pm cruises even on weekends.

Captains Blog...
 

More pictures and things. http://www.cruisenh.com/Captains_Blog.html




Terry
___________________________________