Photo ID Required ??
 

Got a question for the "Rule guru's" of the forum.

Are you REQUIRED to have a photo ID in your possesion when driving a boat?

Personally, I've never heard of such a thing, and rarely (if ever) carry my wallet aboard. I carry some cash & a credit card and that's it.

Here's the background -- This past weekend our neighbors son (18 yr old) was stopped by MP. After a complete vessel shakedown and a fix-it ticket for a "weak" horn the MP asked for the drivers Boating cert -- along with a photo ID ---As it turns out, he had his drivers license with him and respectfully handed it over. So in this issue, no harm - no foul. But I was not aware (if true) that anything beyond the Boater Cert was required. Or was MP a little overzealous, given that it was a teenager ?

Truely curious of the requirements

You're not legally obligated to carry any I.D. at all but if you are charged or investigated for anything the police might detain you until your identity can be verified. Certain activities require licensing or certification and those documents are frequently accepted as proof if identity.

Id
 

You are not required to have a photo id with you, but you are required to provide one if a police officer asks for it. If you don't have it with you, expect MP to follow you back to where you do have it if there is no other way to confirm you identity on the water. If you refuse, you are in violation and could be charged with Disobeying an Officer.

You are required to provide a positiveform of ID, which is easily done with a photo ID such as a driver's license. Not all states have photo ID, so it isn't always possible. Remember that a driver's license is not required to operate a boat, but a Boater's Ed card is and that is a valid form of ID, even without a photo.

Photo ID
 

[QUOTE=NightWing]You are required to provide a positiveform of ID, which is easily done with a photo ID such as a driver's license. Not all states have photo ID, so it isn't always possible. Remember that a driver's license is not required to operate a boat, but a Boater's Ed card is and that is a valid form of ID, even without a photo.[/QUOTE]

If the above quote is true, then how does one that is requesting it know that the boating cert. and the ID (no picture) you offer is in fact you. That sure as heck doesn't make sense to this writer. :)

[QUOTE=idigtractors]The same way they do if you hand them a non-photo license from another state. If you don't have any ID, and that happens often, or at least it did before a BE certificate was required, you would be requested to sign your name for the officer, by which you would be affirming that the name and date of birth you provided was true. Now, if it wasn't true, that would be a serious issue. Again, the photo ID is the best form of positive proof, but is not the only one accepted. It just makes it easier to determine who is who.

Wow,this is news to me.I can't imagine in this day and age that pictures are not required on ID's.What states don't have photo ID's on their drivers license?

Nightwing --- That is/was my understanding as well.

Three years back ( When I was not required to have a Boat Cert) I was pulled over by Marine Patrol for no apparent cause other than to run through my safety equipment and they asked for my Boating Cert -- to which I replied "I didn't need one" then they asked for my Driver's Liscense -- to which (still miffed at the stop) I crisply replied "I didn't need one". Long story short, he found his reason to issue a fix-it ticket -- which as I had no ID on me, I had to sign verifying my name, address, and drivers license #

I have friends in NJ who have never had a picture DL ... hard to believe.

[QUOTE=NightWing]I'm starting to get you as you now have added your signing something where you didn't have that in the original. In my state when you sign ticket/citation you're not signing it to state that your DOB and name is correct, but to acknowledged that you received the citation/ticket. :)

[QUOTE=idigtractors]It isn't a ticket or citation that you sign, but rather the write-up slip that the officer uses to document every stop.
You would only have to sign if you had no ID or other way to prove who you are. (Wife, child, good friend on board who can vouch for you.) Believability is the key here. If you say you are John Smith born on the eve of destruction, you might give the officer cause for doubt. Play games and the stop will be protracted. Remember, you have a legal obligation to properly identify yourself to a peace officer during a vehicle stop. Fail to do that and you could be taken into custody until which time you give truthful answers.

In any event, short answer--

My original line of belief was correct !!

You do not have to carry a Photo ID (Liscense or otherwise) with you when boating.

!0-5
 

That is correct.

This is a dead horse. For the last time, MP will NOT pull you over for the purpose of doing a safety check. However, they WILL do a safety check on every boat they stop and ask for your BE cert if required, depending on your vessel. Period! End of speculation. If you don't believe it, call the MP HQ and ask.

If people would pay attention to what the officer says when they are stopped, or ask the question of why they were stopped, a lot of these statements would disappear. You cannot be stopped without a reason and wanting to inspect your equipment is not a reason.

The "fix-it ticket" you referred to was a Defective Equipment tag which was probably blue in color and you were given the mail in part of it. It required satisfaction of the deficiency within a specified time period. The paper you signed was the write-up slip and your signature was required due to lack of your ID. If you weren't given the mail in card, you got nothing except a verbal warning which the officer documented on the slip.

Sure they will, and they have. Just because it is the MP "policy," does not mean that officers follow it.

I think it makes sense to just carry your DL or ID anyway. I know I'll have my NC DL and NC Boating certificate on me next week when I'm there.:D

The next time you are "wrongfully stopped", get the officer's name and call MP HQ. It is time that innocent people like you stand up and be counted!

Being an officer myself, that's one of my favorites lines. :laugh:

Guilty until proven innocent!
 

C'mon Nightwing, get with the program. You know they only stop the innocent....there's so few violations that occur out on the Lake stopping the innocent is the best way to while away the day, especially on those hot summer Saturday afternoons when there's nothing going on! :D

PLEASE ----

Like so many other threads--- let's NOT get this off topic and into a feud !!

It was a simple question, I have my answer, thread is dead !!

Thank you all .............................. The End

Ever notice that Nightwing always rushes to defend the marine patrol stops. My experience,after 40 years on lakes Squam,Winnipesaukee,and Winnisquam is that at least half of their stops are just harrassment stops because they are bored or in one case I witnessed,we had a couple of teenage girls on board with their parents and the stop was made by a couple of part time summer cops who didn't look old enough to drive a car.They had trouble controlling the MP boat in the chop and bumped us several times. Sorry,Nightwing,but I'm not one who has a lot of respect for the marine patrol.

Pop Quiz for Samiam...
 

Y'know, at one time, the NH Marine Patrol was much less controversial—maybe they should revert to the original name that was painted on the sides of their patrol boats. Everyone in this neighborhood watched for those patrol boats. :look:

Anyone remember what that original name was? :cool:

(Extra points for the year it changed, though I can't say exactly what that year was).

only certain people
 

In some states if you are an illegal alien you are not required to have a photo ID.:rolleye2:

We legals need proof of who we are. In New Jersey we need several forms of documentain. Birth Certificate, Military Discharge, Tax Bill, Utility Bill (electic, gas, phone...), old Photo license....

I used to carry my Drives License boating but after leaving it in the the swim suit and driving the car without it I now ride the jetski sans photo ID.

Not to get off of the thread...
 

but the safety of a photo id is largely an illusion (although admittedly better than no photo). My photo id license from Florida is about 12 years old and is renewed until 2010. 15 years of aging certainly makes id from the license problematic at best. In FL, if you are a "good driver" you can renew your license online and the old photo is used. It is convenient for me, not sure how useful for "national security" or accurate identification.

Not to belabor the point and get completely off topic but the Bush Administration is trying to force state's to comply with a federally mandated format for drivers licenses! This would make every license in every state identical, and contain a magnetic or some other strip eventually giving LE access to whatever information is placed your computer file.

For state's that don't comply the penalty, in addition to loss of federal dollars, would be to refuse to recognize that state's drivers licenses as a form of ID for federal purposes, like getting passports, entering federal buildings etc. (you vill give me your papers!)

Now, back to the topic at hand:
BoatUS recently surveyed it's members about boating safety certificates and I believe one of the questions (if I recall) had to do with a photo ID. I'm looking forward to the results.

Acres per Second --- "Shore Patrol"

Wasn't it Boat Inspector?

Your papers please
 

The memory of the TV show Hogan's Heros keeps coming to mind when I read this thread. Have we gotten to the point where papers are required when out and about?

I think it was an insignia
 

I think it was a circular insignia in blue and I think it said NH Dept of Safety. As I got my last ticket in 1969 it couldn't have been much later that the name was changed - maybe 1976?

I can almost see the insignia on the side of the boats as being as standout as the light bar on the old police cars.

But here is another question;
During the summers weren't the majority of the policing watercraft operated by college students doing work study towards police degrees (I don't know what the program name would have been called) I remember that none carried weapons and they were only there until Labor Day weekend.

No different than being stopped on the street. On the road, you need a driver's license. On the water, you need a Boater Ed Certificate if the vessel is powered by 25 horsepower or more.

Either situation.....................no document? You are obligated to identify yourself. Verbal ID is a last resort, but if that is all you have, that is all you can give. On the road, the officer will call your name and date of birth in (license or not) to dispatch to check your record and to see if you are who you claim to be. A photo license takes care of that part of it. No license requires getting a physical description from dispatch to verify that you resemble the description in state records. Whether or not you have a valid license is another issue.

On the water, the officer will get your information and, lacking ID, will have you sign the write-up slip. Having an ID simplifies the process because your name, birth date and address are on the document and you don't have to be asked for the information. Again, suitable ID speeds the process along and is not infringing on your rights.

You've got me stumped Acres......I'm embarrassed......so many years on the lake and all I'm thinking is MP........maybe I need a cocktail!

Answer below....
 

Nope.

Nope.

Green Mountain coffee works for me! Yer going to kick yourself, I'll bet!

Close, but my guess would have been more recent than that.

Not NH Dept of Safety—at least not the obvious (huge) lettering on the sides of the old patrol boats, which were all inboards. Now I'm wondering if those old patrol boats might be the very same inboard patrol boats we see today? :confused: Can they be 25 years old?


Those old ticket-distributers were in "Public Utilities Commission"-labeled boats.

If carguy had been on-line lately, he would have gotten it!

carguy is right: non-motorized sailboats were free of registration; however, those later plates were aluminum, not steel.

(And sorry about my usual off-course thread meanderings). :blush: :blush:

New Hampshire Department of Public Utilities
 

Carguy was sent an email that he had been quoted on this thread. Back in the 1950's and early 1960's, The New Hampshire Department of Public Utilities operated the "Patrol Boats". The boats were steel hulled 'Steelcrafts' ainted white with blue decks. They only had two or three of them on the whole lake at that time. Later in the 1960's the Department of Safety took over the operation. They used black lapstrake hulled Century Ravens for the patrol boats. They were moored in a boathouse in the Weirs Cannel just north of Channel Marine.

Carguy wrote:
I still have metal NH license plates that used to be attached to the boat instead of bow numbers, as a matter of fact, one year NH issued a decal that covered the entire plate of our sailboat and called that the registration!

I still have that decal over the plate for those of you who don't believe me.

The jury requires photographic evidence!

Weirs Guy wrote:
I will attempt scan it tomorrow (both sides so you can see the difference) and see if I can post it to the forum. :D Since I have never posted a photo before if someone would be so kind as to direct me to the instruction page that would be wonderful :emb:

Marine Patrol
 

In the fifties and at least early sixty's in Alton Bay we had one police officer, his name was Mr. Cates, He had an aluminum starcraft about 14-15 foot with an outboard. He covered all of Alton Bay. The steelcraft patrol boats as I seen them were basically used to take care of the buoys.

Seems that Mr Cates and my father were on first name bases and it also seems that the main topic was the boat "Puddy-Tat" which my brother and I operated endlessly during daylight hours.

As for license plates, my understanding back then, you did not register the boat, you registered the motor. So if you had two outboards, you had two plates. Some put the plate on the motor and when they used the motor on a different boat, already registered.

Is that why they ...
 

I remember Mercury motors with a license plate wired to a pair of holes at the back just below the cylinder cover. I always wondered why people would want the plate flapping around like that.

Now it makes sense.

Here is a 1986 NH boat plate with the 86 sticker on it. Hopefully it will come up. If not we'll try another way. :)

Actually the plate that I have (I will try to remember to scan it in the morning) was the previous year's plate and instead of issuing a little decal with the date on it they issued a decal that covered the entire plate with a completely different number. The year on the decal plate is 1988.

Old NH Sailboat plate decal
 

Hopefully this will work. The first photo is of the old plate from our Freedom 21 from 1988. If you look closely you will see that a decal covers the entire plate. The second photo is the back of the same plate, note the numbers are different and if you look closely you can see the edges of the decal covering the entire other side.

:confused: Not sure if thats interesting or shady, but definitely different.

Oh yeah, and the defense rests.

Just the motor!
 

We just had a motor and no boat so dad rented a row boat and the plate was attached to the motor. No bailing wire dad mounted a license plate bracket to the motor. The old plates are still around. The plates were green with white letters or white with green letters depending on the year.

related question?
 

What about boats with out of state registration? Are they supposed to by in the water all summer? Are they huh?

OOS boats are limited to 30 consecutive days in NH waters. A period longer than that requires NH registration.

A further interpretation needed:
 

We had to get a registration even for only 2 weeks. I think it was because we were renting an island cabin and would use the resident status was allowed us for dock parking and car parking at Gilford Town docks.

I remember the urgency of getting to the lake in time to pick up the registration plate by noon on Saturday or (our understanding was) we couldn't launch at Gilford nor use the island resident sticker for docking or parking.

What registration plate? Plates haven't been used on NH boats since 1988. Are you talking about your trailer or MV plate? That sounds like a Gilford ordinance which, as you pointed out, restricts the amenities of the boat ramp and lot to residents.

way back when ..
 

Not trailer;

I was furthering the thread on original registration for motors not boats.

Weirs guy wrote:
What can I say, you asked for photographic proof. Photographic proof provided.

Prosecution rests :)

Not just residents but also people renting Gilford property.

Half an oops...
 

Originally Posted by carguy:
I stand half-corrected: we're both half-right. In the interest of accurate lake trivia, I tested my family's collection of license plates with a magnet. :look:

Annually, the colors alternated between green and white. Those tiny license plates were made of steel in those years that the lettering was colored green. :confused:

When the lettering was white—the plates were made of aluminum. :)

AAh, a loophole. Gee, do ya think?;)

It also depends on your definition of "Operating." If it's just tied up at a dock is that "Operating" In NH waters? lol

I'm sure there are higher priorities than making a note of every registration number and watching it every day to see if a boat is here. Without that kind of testimony my money would be against a succesful prosection. This law is in the category of rules people obey when it's convenient (imo).