Can We Live On Winni for $450k?
 

A short while back I posted about possibly buying a small summer home on the big lake. After taking a trip up there this year and watching our high school teenagers skip rocks, swim, and putting down the iphone, the wife and I look at each other and started chatting about moving up here.

But the question is, can we get a decent year round home for under $450k? 3/2 1500+ sq ft, garage. Not opposed to a town home in a nice community or a bit of a renovation. Thinking Gilford or Meredith region for school for the kids.

I can pull up listings and see options, but it is a bit of a shot in the dark without really knowing the area well.

Am I dreaming?

Thank you
Jason

For that price, you'd be in an association and/or have water views or access but not direct waterfront. For owned waterfront you'd have to be on an island and/or give up the garage, second bathroom, and about 1,000 square feet.

Check out South Down Shores in Laconia for a start.

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Look for a town with the most Shore Front Property.
 

Look for a town with the most Shore Front Property.

The more Shore Front Property most of the time means Lower Taxes for those not on the Water.

Moultonboro would be one of those Towns.

Low Taxes if not Water Front, decent School System. Honest Government, good Police Department and a good Ambulance Service, Overall a good place to live.

Formally from Mass.

We started with a 30' Trial at Arcadia Campground, stayed there for four Seasons. We then bought a "Seasonal" home in Farecho Harbor. Every Sunday we would pack up and head back to Mass saying as we drove up Moultonboro Neck Road, Why the Hellll are we going back to Mass.

We eventually were able to buy a piece of land and build a year round Home in the Kona Area. We went with Modular Construction. Its been 16 years now.

Both of us are retired now and enjoying the things the Lakes Area has to offer.

It may be a little different life style but you will get used to it.

We used to make a night of it by going down to the Concord Home Depot, getting building materials and going out to Dinner.

Today we have a Home Depot in Tilton and a Lowes in Gilford. OH yes we even has a Walmart.

Oh, don't forget AMAZON!

Long island condo
 

Jonathans landing condo on Long Island gets you shared lakefront w/sandy beach and a protected boat slip, usually. Little bit of a reach with current listins starting @ 510k. If I had the ability its where I would be now.

My wife was born in Meredith and grew up in southern NH. I'm from mass (don't tell anyone) and grew up vacationing in Meredith. We were living in San Francisco when we got married and decided that when we started having kids we wanted them in a more rural and wholesome place. So 11 years ago we moved back to Meredith and we now have a 6 and 4 year old. Being back here - while it has its challenges - has been absolutely the best decision we could have made.

For what its worth our first two home were on Winni but we concluded that living year round on the lake was a mistake. All of your neighbors are summer people or retirees so it can be pretty lonely and desolate in the winters.

Our current situation - which works phenomenally for us - is that we have a nice year round house in a year round neighborhood and a very small, seasonal camp in an association on the water. People think we are crazy for having a vacation house 7 miles from our main house but I look at the traffic on 93 and think perhaps I'm not so crazy.

When we go to the camp we are on "vacation" (even if its every day in the summer). We have summer friends in the association, I turn my phone off when I get their, it feels like we are "away." When its real life time we had back to our year round house. In the fall, winter, spring we have lots of great year round neighbors and it doesn't feel as isolated as when we lived on winni year round.

As to cost, you can pick up the house you described off the water for about $300k and a rustic camp is going to cost at least $200k so it might be a bit higher then you want but not too bad.

The biggest challenge I see people having is finding a way to make a living up here that pays for the inflated cost of living. But if I remember correctly you can do your work from anywhere so you don't have to worry about that.

Good luck to you!

You could get into Lake Shore Park for that price and you can live there year round if the camp is set up for that. The problem is they never make it onto MLS. Somebody mentions they are thinking about selling and it is snatched up by somebody before it hits the market so you would want to have an in so they could be looking out for those opportunities for you.

South Down Shores mentioned above is actually in Laconia.

While the purchase price in a development with an HOA may (or may not) be lower than that of other properties, the HOA fees reduce your buying power.

It's not just what it costs to buy that matters.

What does it cost to keep?

Another consideration are real estate taxes.

If your income will be NH sourced you can consider the savings from eliminating the income tax you currently pay in you home state. Your NH property may or may not have higher taxes. As mentioned above, some towns have higher taxes than others.

South Down is actually in Laconia and the Laconia School district. Get place very affordable with all the amenities. The down side is the schools are supposedly not as good as Meredith or Gilford. I have friends in the Laconia school system and they do like it

There are thousands of people looking for that same thing. It's not out there. You will find something like that in a nice association with a possible dock spot for your boat.
Look into the association carefully, some are good and some not so good.
I bought in an association 3 years ago but we are always looking for that illusive waterfront home that we can afford. We have a 2000 sq ft year round home on an acre of land and a two car garage. We would have to take a major step down on the house just to get our own waterfront. A very small seasonal shack on the water is about all you will find for $450K.

Was thinking about the small cottage in Assoc. combined with permeant housing in residential neighborhood, it could work for me !

Was thinking one could rent out the cottage to friends or people you know
when not in use and pickup some $$$ to offset the taxes and Assoc. fees.

Of course renting your cottage always can come with some negative experiences with the renters, I'll leave it at that !

Plus some associations do not allow renting.

I agree with what the others are saying, for $450,000 with a good house on it you are looking at a water access community. That's what we ending up doing an are very happy. Would love to be able to walk out the back door and jump on the boat but couldn't justify the cost. Also agree with the comments on watching the HOA dues and the property taxes. For point of reference, a $450,000 house in Moultonborough is about $4,000 in taxes versus $10,000 in Laconia. That $6,000 annually/$500 monthly represents about $100,000 of purchasing power in todays interest rate environment.

One note on associations: there were many people (among them my parents) we spoke to who believed it best to avoid associations at all costs. In the end, we bought in an association and it's the best thing we could've done. Our friends are close, so we don't have to worry about having people visit for a party, and our kids always have something to do--they leave camp in the morning to play with friends and only come back to eat!

That being said, reading the HOA documents is important, as is the extra fees, but it's not anything different than what you'd wanna go if buying a condo or, for that matter, any property. Our place is seasonal--Arcadia, which was mentioned above--and HOA fees are ~90/mth.

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Alton Bay water front cottage for sale, $369.900
 

108 Eastside Road, Alton Bay , NH. and be converted to year round, please see classified

Winni living
 

Okay we were in the same situation for a year looking for a waterfront home for 500,000
We where in a Association for 10 years in paugus Bay detached condo homes /4season cottages
That was aforadable to get on lake with a big dock for 10 years 200k roughly 10 years ago
sold it last year for roughly the same price
Didn't like being in an association having to vote on what goes where who pays what
We work too hard for our money for other people to tell me how to spend it condo fee special assessments and taxes
Took a break looking at small cottages on the waterfront for 4/5 and 600k also looked at Island properties
Finally in November 1st day on the market we got a nice log home four bedroom with a full Foundation walkout basement Waterfront 100 ft of Waterfront our boat 40 feet away no association fees
Its in moultonborough we got lucky finding this property
as it appraised for a lot more after we bought it one came on the market in the neighborhood for roughly the same price last month and was gone in one day
you have to be on top of the market and catch it the day it comes on the market you might do what we just did find a nice place for just a tad over 500
We went with moultonborough as was noted above taxes more house for the money versus other towns around the lake
Good luck in your search

Do you guys own the land there? If so, what do taxes run?

Yes, the lots are owned. Taxes for us last year were around $600. If you'd like more info, feel free to message me.

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Year round, waterfront home? Gilford info
 

I just wanted to clarify. Are you looking for a year-round home on the water? Or water access? I know of at least one waterfront association in Gilford that does not allow for properties there to be used as a year-round home. So you want to make sure if you buy in an association, it can be your year-round home. I would think that Samoset would be okay, and certainly should be able to find something to meet your needs in your price-range.

If you don't need to have waterfront access, but can deal with a really good town beach, you can certainly find a house that fits your requirements for under $450K in Gilford.

Gillygirl is correct....you can get a nice house (not waterfront) in Gilford with access to Gilford Beach and full privileges to the nicest ramp and facility on the lake at Glendale docks for less than 450 K.

Dan

My neighbor just purchased a house on the big lake for $465,000. No garage.
Has full basement. Modest 2 bedroom home.

Big difference in price when you add garage, 3rd bedroom, and second bath. Also, location/waterfront quality matter big time. That being said, OP would have to decide on cost vs. "extras," which might make the difference for a year-round home.

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Don't overlook associations. We almost did. So glad we didn't though. I home is beautiful, we have a deeded boat slip off our 60' dock for a 25' boat, our dues are less than 600 a year and we have a 100' beach. View from our deck. That's our dock in the picture. We just had a neighbor buy the home next to mine last year and they couldn't be happier. They have their boat in the water and a beautiful home.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...4ac52ec07e.jpg


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Where is that?

AB.


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Peggy's Cove
 

The association is off 28A in Alton Bay in Peggy's Cove. The large boat house across the cove is on Echo Point. Nice shared beach there and deeded docks. There have been several homes on the market recently.

ALSO keep a eye open in sands of brookhurst for a home if you can i sell you my for 550.:rolleye2::eek:

Are you selling or buying in Sands off Brookhurst?

Darn, well it was a good dream while it lasted. Maybe in a few more years.

thank you!

U never know. When the economy turns the second home market turns with it.

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My advice to you is to be patient. The stock market is through the roof and the interest rates are low so people don't seem to have a problem paying through the nose to get a house on the lake right now. We first looked at our place almost a year before we bought it (through foreclosure). Actually made an offer on a house that finally sold for less than what we offered.

A 3-bedroom 2-bath home with 2-car garage was listed in Southdown Shores this week for $284,900.

The Southdown Shores home looks nice, but $365/mth. HOA fees might change things--for that much, someone could swing a house almost $75K more. At 4% interest, the buyer would own something more valuable while spending the same money. Of course, there would be maintenance charges, increased taxes, etc. to consider, but, like condo fees, it's important to consider the whole picture.

Living in NH
 

We had a condo in South Down for several years, it was okay. The association costs of SDS and the individual associations can get expensive. You don't own the land, at least we didn't. We now have 3BR, 2.5BA home in Suissevale in Moutlonboro on 1 acre (newer end of Suissevale, near Black's Landing Road). We keep our boat at Ambrose Cove which is about 1/4 mile from the house. Suissevale has great beach, canoe/kayak racks, really good association. I would highly recommend taking a look.

Just playing around and found this for $500K, which is just above OP's requested price range. This is on Hanson Cove, which is where Arcadia is--a very nice place to be on the lake (if one prefers quiet, less busy places). http://www.realtor.com/realestateand...-54539#photo16

Not to mention that Laconia's taxes are higher than most towns around the lake. Between the HOA and the higher taxes you could probably afford to go another 100K higher in a town like Meredith.

That looks very nice, at 864 sq ft it might be tight for a primary year round home with kids.

Simplify, simplify, simplify.

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This one is down to 475k now...still way more than I can muster up at 34 years old with two kids for a second home.....maybe in a few years.....

Make an Offer
 

This is the time of year to buy at the lake. Your only 25k away from your budget it can never hurt to make an offer and go from there. If they don't accept move on

I'm with Joey. If the asking price is 475, they will not be offended if you offer 450. Similarly, if you can afford 450, you can also afford 475. Or 462.5!;)

We rented a place just across from this property several years ago. It's a lovely spot.

I am not the original poster haha. Unfortunately, I am tied to Mass for a while, my wife has 10 years into the school system, so any purchase in NH will be a second home. Once the kids finish daycare it may be a possibility, I'll be 8 years out from paying off my primary home and saving 2k a month with not having to pay for daycare! 5 years to go, and with the speed they are growing it is going to by quicker than I want it too!

Unfortunately this property is a camp/cottage and sits on post/piers making it seasonal. Not a property for year round living.

142 days on the market, three pretty substantial price reductions and no sale?

That only means one thing it's over priced for what and where it is. The house itself looks attractive so it's got to be the location. Water quality in general in that area of the lake is not very good.

Water quality in Hanson Cove is great. I didn't notice it was seasonal, but wouldn't $500k be too much for a seasonal waterfront?

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My curiosity piqued again, I took a second look. It is a nice spot on the lake, but it is only 0.28 acre. Septic capacity is determined in part based on total acreage. My guess--based only on memory of hearing calculations of other properties--is that the septic capacity of the lot is 2 bedrooms. So a new buyer would not be able to build as much as most would like after dropping $500K on just the land.

Maybe, but it's listed as 3 bedroom and, even though people sometimes add more bedrooms than their septic "allows," realtors usually won't list any more bedrooms than septic capacity. Besides, 1/3 of an acre isn't all that small for the average waterfront, right?

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1/3 of an acre could get a bit tricky if one is trying to get both a well and septic in considering all the setback requirements.

Just to clarify. The number of bedrooms or baths does not make a property year round. Septic systems do not make a property year round either. Local and state regulations control that but in this case, the listing specified cottage/camp which would be understood as not year round. Also not having a foundation (on post and piers) is an indication of not being year round.

Right--we were just discussing the appropriateness of the value/asking price.

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I am not an expert, but as I understand it, septics on old homes are basically grandfathered, but you're limited on what you can do with the home. You will not get a building permit to rebuild or add more bedrooms, and you will fail the buyer's inspection when you try to sell.

In 2015 we walked away from a signed P&S to buy a 4 bedroom home because the lot could not support more than 2.4 bedrooms.

What would .4 bedroom look like?


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I know beggars cannot be choosers...but with two teenage kids I need to keep entertained, this looks to be in the middle of nowhere. I would love it....but would my sanity?

At tht price point you may want to try looking at other lakes in the area.

That's a good point. It's a beautiful spot, but I can see how teens would prefer the southern end of the lake.

No offense, fellas, but buying a half million home for a couple kids who will most likely moving on--at least for a while--in a few years? And how much in the south is better for teens? The Weirs? Traffic?!

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Each area of the Lake has its own advantages and disadvantages. We bought a small house in the far northern part of the Lake in 1983 when our kids were 9 and 6. Never had an issue with the kids wishing they were in an area with more "action". In fact, they never wanted to go back to our main house. Now the same thing is true with our grandchildren, the oldest of whom is 14. A few years ago we tore down the house, build a new house, sold the main house and moved up to the same old spot permanently. When making that decision, we thought long and hard about selling the existing Lake house and looking elsewhere on the Lake but it was a pretty easy decision to stay put.

No offense taken. I prefer the north myself, but I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority. When we were in the market to buy (2014-15), the southern places were definitely more expensive on an apples to apples basis. Our (excellent) real estate agent explained that most people liked to be near the Broads and restaurants.

My wife and I bought a house in Moultonborough in 2010 for quite a bit under your budget. It was built in 2007, has 3.5 baths, 3 bedrooms, and a finished basement.

We live across the street from the lake. No water views due to trees and have an access to the lake via a town-owned easement (Enough to walk down to the water, but that's about it). A smaller, older house up the street that is on the water sold for about $900K last year so that gives you an idea of what water front/water views add to the price.

Bottom line, if you're willing to give up the water front/water views, I think you could find something near the water that would work in your price range.

FYI - taxes are great in Moultonborough.

Where's the value?
 

Looking at the tax card for the property in question indicates that almost all the value is in the land, $74K for the buildings The total assessed value has been declining for the last three years in a market that is growing. It appears the current owner paid $520K in 2007 just before the RE market crashed, along with the rest of the economy. She put the property into a new trust less than a year ago. I'm not a tax person, but I wonder if the new trust allows a better tax deal for taking a loss on the sale of the property?

For the septic discussion. A non-compliant system is "grandfathered" until it fa-fails, then it has to be brought up to code. Banks have different approaches to this. DES will allow some exceptions in the new design/build so that somebody isn't thrown out of their home. Some RE Agents do not cross check, but sometimes a seller will insist that a home be listed as 3 BR or some other feature. When the house is appraised for a mortgage, the appraiser will definitely check BR with Septic design. And the RE Agent can tell the seller "I told you so." If they don't match, the bank will not write the loan or will perhaps require new system upgrades as part of the deal.

If you go back a couple of sales, you'll see that GEM Realty Trust was an owner, looks like twice.. If you Google GEW Realty Trust, you get:
GEM Realty Trust v. First N/B, Boston CV-93-606-SD 05/18/95
http://www.nhd.uscourts.gov/sites/de...95/95SD044.pdf

Verrry interesting...

Not dreaming
 

Jason, You are not dreaming. You may have to be patient and you will definitely need and agent in the know. Someone who hears of things before they are in the MLS and can act fast for you. You also have to act fast and be open minded and handy. Good Luck. We wish you the best!

8 Cathy Lane in Alton...
Just came on today.
4657547 is the mls number...

checks a lot of boxes for around $400.
Boat dock.
Beach.

The north side of the lake is definitely quieter, which I like. If you want to be able to get food delivered, have access to fast food restaurants and bigger stores, stay on the southern end. Taxes in Moultonberry and Touftonboro are low.

We like being able to go to the restaurants by water- we bought enough boat to run in most anything Winni dishes out.

Make a Ridiculous Offer...
 

Confirmed to be in a nice area? :)

So, don't pay $500K for a seasonal waterfront. ;)

Confirmed to be in a nice area—again? :coolsm:

A nice, but declining, place near us started out at $800K, and dropped $100K every month until it sold—to a contractor. :(

A formerly unaware buyer offered the contractor "enough" for his trouble, and is moving in. :)

Having five properties presently, Winnipesaukee lakefront is hard to beat as an investment. (Especially the "little frog on the pond"). If I sold them all, I could buy David Copperfield's island paradise in the Caribbean right now. ;)

Economist Peter Schiff, (on YouTube recently), said that we can expect inflation to increase rapidly. A "sorting-out" of property prices would likely leave you behind.

If the asking price is $475K, I'd offer $375K, and let them refuse it. (IF they do).

If there are major "issues", work with an RE attorney to write the agreement; otherwise, a seasoned realtor can make the deal work.

There are "workarounds" to mandatory requirements. :rolleye1:

.

If you are suggesting buying a place and trying to "workaround" the septic rules, I am in violent disagreement.

First, modern septic standards are critical for protecting the lake at the current level of development. Though lovely overall, Hanson Cove and surrounding areas do have a real problem with runoff already. See here for lots of details:

http://winnipesaukeegateway.org/wp-c...MP_Mar2017.pdf

Second, even if you disagree with the need for a modern septic and you think you can worm out of fixing it, an old septic is a financial time bomb. Some day it will need to be replaced--either because it fails or the grandfathered regulations change. So if you're just squeaking by on your ability to pay for a place with an old septic, it's only prudent to budget for a new septic.

If there are readers with old septics who would like to replace them but cannot afford to do so, financial help is sometimes available. PM me and I may be able to point you in the right direction.

Would this fit the bill? Lake access, water views, mooring, low Alton taxes......

On the market for two days......$249,000

http://www.beangroup.com/homes/50_Da...dex.html?cnt=1

I did not see anything about a mooring in that listing. Did I miss it?

..........oops! I suppose that for that price though you could rent a slip at Parker Marine or Roberts Cove and still be under $450,000.

A quick search of 8 Cathy Lane in Alton shows the owner bought this home in April of this year (2017) for 157k, lives in MA, did some renov, and is asking way more than the town is appraising it for. I guess it pays to buy low, do the work, and sell high.

In theory yes but the house is not sold and we do not know how much was invested in the renovation as a result we do not know if this particular investment paid off.

Isn't buy low sell high the goal with most things? Can't fault them for trying. The market will determine if it's justified.


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Is there a place to compare the tax rates around the lake communities? I had no idea Laconia was that high!

Where on the lake are you? How many other associations do you know of on the lake?

Not that it's an excuse and I am in Laconia with their high tax rates, but Laconia is a city with city infrastructure and services unlike the smaller towns around the lake.

2016 rates
Moultonboro 8.56
Tuftonboro 9.14
Meredith 12.62
Wolfeboro 12.64
Center Harbor 12.97
Alton 13.68
Gilford 18.3
Laconia 21
When I was looking for a place I ruled out Gilford and Laconia due to the rates. Some may find those places worth the higher taxes for whatever reason. Services, ease of access....

Same here, You could get more house in Laconia for your $$$$ but those taxes are a killer.

Laconia
 

I also chose Laconia because of the access to stores, restauraunts and services, ie I'm on city sewage, have trash pickup, etc. I can walk to Shaws, Lowes and Hannafords are a quick ride. It also puts me closer to home, although I have to deal with the Channel every time I want to get out of Paugus Bay.

Obviously there are pluses and minuses with every location.

Just my thoughts,
Hope this helps,
Bill

Right, and, unlike property value, you never get taxes back.

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When we were looking I wanted Moultonboro for the low taxes but my wife wanted Meredith for the shorter ride and the access to all that the town center had to offer. I'm glad my wife won out. The extra half plus hour ride to get to a house in Moultonboro would not have been worth the tax savings. Plus I bought a place within a mile of the town which we walk to every weekend morning, weather permitting.

What year are those rates for?

Tax
 

Tuftonboro tax rate for July 2017 was $5.22.

That is because it is only for half of the year. And also, it is based on the Dec 2016 bill. It will be adjusted to the 2017 rate when the Dec. tax bills come out. June's bill is always half of the previous end of year bill.

I can tell I'm about to learn something here. What I'm hearing is, if you average the December and July tax rates, you get the year's rate. Is this what you are saying?

No, sorry. I don't explain things very well. I am saying the June rate is derived from the December bill. (every year) But you are only paying for half a year. That's why it is 5.22 in this case, not, 10.44 which was the Dec. 2016 rate. The state determines what the tax rate will be sometime around Nov. and gives it to the town. That is when the rate is adjusted up or down (usually up) so you get your actually tax rate for the year. Does that make sense?

There is a correlation of tax rate to assessment.
That being that a low tax rate and high assessment and a high tax rate and low assessment equal the same dollar amount paid. One has to look at the total picture. Nonetheless there is a disparity among communities as to the actual tax paid. If one lives is a rather rural area with few things to budget for, the taxes in general will be lower than a community, e.g. town or city with many services wherein the taxes will be higher.
Make the choice as to where you want to live. Just like a professional should probably practice and live in a community they want to live. Happiness will most often follow.
What do I know, I'm retired.

I am a retired workaholic and continuing aquaholic.

Rules are for Little People...
 

Not what I wrote:
There are "workarounds" to mandatory requirements. :)
What I wrote:
There are "workarounds" to mandatory requirements. :rolleye1:

I'd previously mentioned that the Town winked at a new neighbor's septic non-conforming design, even allowing both well- and septic-systems would be shared with the property next door—which they also had bought at the same time.

Worse, that neighbor then converted their garage to a bedroom. :rolleye1:

.

Don't know when the "winking" occurred, but often it's OK as long as an approved plan is on file that can be implemented when the system fails. It will probably fail sooner with the expansion, but not as likely on a seasonal home with low year round use. The law was clarified this year, signed by the Governor in July (HB258).

Have you considered other lakes? I am a huge Winni fan, but the cost and distance from my work is too prohibitive for me. There are several other smaller lakes which offer tons of boating opportunities with much more affordable housing.

Personally I would give up a little lake for direct water front property vs Water access/association.