Maxum that was a refreshing post! WOW. I am an opponent to the SL law. However, you make great points without sensationalism. You have a logical viewpoint that makes good sense. I still think the Coast Guard Rule (6) is it? Could work for the lake, (Reasonable and Prudent). Either way I appreciate your perspective on the matter. In the end I thought to myself that I could live with exactly what you suggested. Add to that we keep a 30MPH night time SL and I am on board. Unfortunately when this "keep the broads open" was suggested the people who were ardent supporters, namely the woman who needs to go shopping:laugh:, were seen for their real motives. They were completely against compromise and it was evident to many that their agenda was not safety. It was and always will be an attempt to rid the lake of what they consider undesirable boats. Again with the NIMBY attitude.

Jeez!
 

Now we are back on the same subject that gets Don teed. Let's get back on the subject if the lake is better.

A few things off topic. I am in complete agreement with BI about fear around the summer camps. Summer camps should have NWZ around the front of their properties. Even have a buoy or two situated out front to steer the boats away. That's a heck of a lot more logical than a lake wide SL.

I was a YMCA camp director in my days. Speed limits was not a problem. It is the incosiderate boaters that I feared the most. Steering them away form the camps lakefront is the best solution.

As for Winfabs, I was one of the founding members. The original intent of Winfabs was to save property value as I stated in another thread. Lake George property values rised after the speed limits was enacted. Majority of the founders are not native of the area so they have no clue what the lake was like. They started the fear spin to convinced the common folks to vote for the new law.

As for Rep. Pilliod, his famous 'Searays belong in the seas' dialogue is what really set off this high performance debate.

Let's not argue about all this here. Do something productive and notify your representatives that they have been misleaded and that we really need no boating zones around the summer camps, Rule #6, and a distracted boating law. Tell them they need to do this if they plan on staying another term!

Another thing. I strongly believe the NWZ at the Barber's Pole is proposed because of the summer camp next to it. Let's put a couple of bouys out there. That will save the headache of erosion on the shores when boat come off/on plane.

Most of the outspoken proponents of one law or another on the lake flat out lied, both about their intentions, and what was actually happening on the lake. There were many SL supporters that had some good ideas, presented them honestly, and were generally good people to deal with. It's unfortunate that so many people couldn't see past angry and contentious posts and see the outright lies that caused much of the angst.

Some had the vision to look way ahead, and saw some kind of SL as a way to protect Winni from becoming a Havasu or LOTO or other such crazy spots. Those people made me think hard and long, and did sway my opinion over time. I thought maybe a 65 SL daytime might satisfy everyone more or less.

But I might add, as BI stated many times, the SL opponents were not willing the first go around to compromise on anything. But it's hard to compromise, or even discuss issues, when one side has no facts, credibility, hides their true intentions, and generally pulls the wool over an unsuspecting public. Whatever the outcome on any issue, I'd prefer the process to be up front, and have people with honest character and integrity doing the advocation, for both sides. It's really sad that many still don't get this, maybe one day they will.

Now we have the BP NWZ issue. Fully supported behind the scenes by many of the same people. It's easy to spot them. They come out of nowhere with hysterical claims, broad-based stories of fear and woe, and leave people in the area scratching their heads as to when all of this mayhem is occurring. Some of the letters written in support of this NWZ are so far fetched and amazing, there must have been a common memo circulating that listed bullet lists for suggestions.

But I don't know who's more harmful to the lake. Those that produce the lies to gain support, or those that eat this BS up, then send nasty messages blaming us for pointing the lies out. The sheer idiocy of one supporter's comments. The MP saw repeated violations of the 150' safe passage rule, so lets have another new rule in place.


Regardless of position on any issue, I'm delighted to see many honest people come out here and state their opinions and stories. It's very refreshing, and would make for good discussion groups with the MP as well.

Sorry BH.

To stay on topic.....

BI stated many times that it was the camps he was concerned about, amongst other things. So back on topic, has it changed anything there?

I didn't hear those chuckles but there were a few regarding attire and grooming appropriate for appearing in front of a legislative body. OCD seemed pretty much the only SL opponent who owned a tie. Mrs. Sunset commented about dirty torn jeans, people who hadn't visited a barber in way too long, sweatshirts with football logos, and women in tank tops. Now you'll probably argue that you don't need to dress to impress, that it's just a difference in age etc. but bottom line...there is an appropriate way to appear before a state legislative body. And judging simply by the outcome, that being overwhelming support in both houses, they were not impressed. Many thought the scruffy appearance of the opposition spoke volumes and helped our cause. JMO but your nasty and belittling comment about a lady who needs to pass through the broads for life's necessities needed to be addressed.

Summer camps
 

Well BI brought up summer camps, and VtSteve has asked the question has there been any improvement in the camps water activities since the enactment of the Speed limits...

Well here is what I have to say, I have several camps around me... that I pass on my regular boating trips... I personally have not seen a decline in their water activities in the last 20 years. Certainly you don't see the younger kids in the canoes, kayaks and small sail boats on the weekends, but you do see the older kids. But this is what I would expect. And during the week, when I have had the chance they have kids of all ages out on the water, with counselors chasing them down...

Now somethings to not given the economy since 2000 I have noticed that all the camps have had dwindling attendance.... and it got even worse during the last 3 years. Now as attendance at the camps has gone down so to has the number of boats from said camps that you see on the water...

Now if that isn't bad enough we have Insurance to think about here two... in this day and age with sue happy lawyers and parents, camps are fighting for survival and trying to keep there insurance cost down... I wouldn't be surprised to find out that some of the camps, have less of a water presence on the weekends because of insurance reasons, and their policy is dictating that they keep the boats on sure for Sat. and Sunday.

Now when you add all these twist and turns into the pot there is another different picture that starts to form. A picture that is not one of speed and its effects. But rather one first of economic affordability and second of safety... safety is not dictated by speed.... safety is dictated by common sense, education, and adherence to the rules....

Additional rules and regulations are not going to revive the summer camp feel and the sight of kids in canoes, and sail fish out on the lake... however responsible boating through education and adherence to the rules will. The focus needs not to be on how can we further legislate the lake to control the behavior, the rules are there... the focus needs to get back to where it was 10-15 years ago, and be about how do we educate people, and get the money to the MP to enforce the adherence to the rules that are already in place.

Thanks Sunset.. I tried to look my best..

I heard the chuckles but that is neither here no there...

But again don't exaggerate, the lady in question lives in the bear island area. Boat is at Shep Browns. The broads are MILES away. The crossing is 1/4 mile wide...

The comment that gained chuckles was that the Broads are the hub of the lake and you can't get anywhere unless you go through them. This is simply a lie playing to the ignorance of the committee members who by their own admission (some) had never been to the lake.

We all know island residents choose a marina as close to their island as possible that normally does not have to take you into the Broads. With the excpetion of Parker Island and a few others these marina are normally in very accessible places so that people do not have travel in the broads due to the high winds and weather that can occur.

This is just another attempt of twisting the facts to try to gain support.

Pretty Silly....

PS. next hearing come and say hello! Are you coming to Hazelnuts tomorrow?

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:: laugh::laugh:
Oh so now the SL was passed on a dress code. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:: laugh::laugh::laugh:

As for me I had Khaki Pants neatly pressed mind you, :) and a very nice button down shirt, cleaned and pressed. My only tragic flaw was that I wore my (mind you very expensive and brand new) Fleece Jacket with a tiny Patriots Logo located on the left side. I was freshly shaved and had a haircut just the day before. Heck I think I looked pretty darn good. :D I even got a wink from Ms. Clark. J/K

No the lady that feels the need to have the rest of the boating public slow down in the largest part of the lake so SHE can go grocery shopping needs to be addressed. What a complete joke. :rolleye1: Does she call Mother Nature and yell at her when the wind whips up the lake into 3 foot swells too? :rolleye2: Not to mention the fact that she doesn't even live on the Broads. Oh get this one of the people sitting with us on OUR side mind you has a house ON the Broads. I won't post her name but she is a member here. I believe she got a chuckle out of the comment from that woman and SHE actually uses the Broads to access her house. Sorry SOTD you need to lighten up and realize how silly all of that was. To paraphrase comments you have made:
It was like the SL opponents were driving around throwing puppies out of boats going 185 MPH while deliberately running down children in blow up boats in the middle of the broads.
For gods sake it was a Speed Limit hearing. Why all the lies just to pass a stupid silly law? Especially considering there was no reason for it. I mean I came in and just spoke from the heart and never once made up a silly story or made up lies. Yet your side got up and lied and stretched the truth and made up fantastic stories and we can't laugh about it. I mean no big deal it's over so now it's just kind of funny to recap and retell the tall tales of the hearing.""

Ok ok ok sorry sorry my apologies to BroadHopper and the rest of the membership for derailing this thread, I'll take this back on topic after I wipe the tears from my eyes from laughing so hard...

BroadHopper I think you bring up some great points. I fully support "camp zones." I really think that this would be a great cause to support. The reality is though the general lake itself has not changed one way or the other this summer. I still think that education is going to be the ultimate answer. Even if it means increased patrol and random checkpoints. I hate to even say it but it may come to that some day. What we need is a way to increase revenue for the Marine Patrol to allow them to increase their numbers. Non-motorized registration fees anyone? :eek:

Sounds like I was overdressed.
 

As a respectable Senior financial officer of a Fortune 100 company, I realized appearance makes a big difference in a presentation. Maybe next time I will dig out my 'Woodstock' attire and hopefully fit in to them :D

Not quite sure how some intolerant, story imbelishing women crossing the broads to shop for hats or a loaf of bread has any thing to do with how people may or may not have dressed for the hearings, but I know I was there in suit and tie, and many others who were there testifiying against speed limits were wearing appropriate attire. Did I see one guy come in and testify in a pair of jeans? sure did.....although he was not part of the organized oposition, who cares...he probably stopped in from his job, testified and left...he got involved. Now lets look at the people who testified for the speed limit...most of them fossils, Mrs Kravitz types, cant have a good time because they are miserable people in general, and want every one else to be miserable. Most were dressed frumpy looking in clothing popular in the Carter administration, wearing velcro tie sneakers...now thats what I call dressed for success. If you believe that how people may or may not have appeared before the hearings is what caused them to vote for speed limits, I believe you are sadly mistaken. In reality the law was voted in by a legislature, that came to power in a tide of Obamamism that washed over our state and country. The good news is this little social experiment will be well on its way to being repaired come this november. Stay tuned.

Since we are talking about what to wear when meeting with the New Hampshire Legislators I think the most important accessory would have to be a broom. :D

I have to give credit where credit is due.

Sunset on The Dock is absolutely right.


The speed limit opposition was grossly unprepared at every turn, while the supporters were well funded, organized, prepared and professionally dressed.

Hopefully there is a lesson learned.

One can only hope that in time this subject can be re-visited and I see no reason why some areas of the lake should not be re-opened for those that would like to go faster than 45 MPH.

Where is the character?
 

I think a lesson was learned. But it would appear that those that may have been unprepared, were also naive. Most good people that value their character, would be embarrassed to continue a discussion within a group that has found them to be deceitful.

I always knew you were slick SOTD, but even the slipperiest scamster slips up eventually. This past month, you've set a new record. I know for sure you would never have belittled people for their attire if you wanted the discussion to continue. You're a master baiter, that can tell fables fluently without remorse or regret. I've had a lot of experience working amongst regulators, professional paid experts and witnesses. Some people just have the knack, thankfully, a small minority. But when that certain smell is in the air, bells and sirens go off.

Usually people at the local level don't go to such extremes as you to carefully craft, and continually repeat falsehoods for such small gains. If part of a grander plan, that makes sense for players. But at this level, it seems almost pathological.

I think the title of this thread should change. It should be entitled

"What the heck are these people really up to?"

I think even people that support the SL or other laws may be to embarrassed to comment for fear of being on your side. For those people that either testified before, or have written letters this year on the NWZ, did you give them coaching lessons, or just write the letters yourself?

Sotd
 

Does the word “elitist” ring a bell? I would be more concerned about deception rather than appearance. A classic example of purporting to respond to an allegedly “nasty and belittling comment” by making your own nasty and belittling comment. You do not like what your opponents say, which is your right, but now you do not like how they look. Did they have an offensive odor too? Perhaps they did not bathe to your satisfaction or perhaps their very existence perturbs you, especially if these people have the gall to occupy the same body of water as you.

What is so strange about a resident of the Bear Island area having to go through the Broads to shop? I don't know if there is an official definition of "The Broads" but around here it includes the east side of Bear Island.

Someone said she claimed to be from the Bear Island "area". Could that be Six Mile Island? The absolutely have to go through the broads to shop.

I know some people call the waters south of Three Mile Island the "Northern Broads" but couldn't that be shortened to Broads. Perhaps that woman was correct and you guys are in the wrong on this one.

Perhaps, however as usual you present nothing but your opinion on this issue. Perhaps they were right?

If I may I think there is an easy way to sum this up - and is applicable to various subjects, especially when discussing politics. If you the position you take is simply indefensible then smear and demonize your opponent. What those that engage in this kind of rhetoric don't realize is that eventually you loose all credibility. Not only that it leads to a wave of opposition to your position, for no other reason than your behavior represents something foul.

** Just for clarification, what I said here is to augment that which VtSteve is pointing out as I whole heartily agree with his premise and who it is targeted to. In no way was I intending to suggest that VtSteve is engaging in the behavior described. On the contrary I respect his contributions along with many others who have put substance and thought into their postings on this debate which found itself meandering off on unrelated tangents.**

Contrary to popular belief, that fatal accident many years ago was not the reason Bear islanders started a push for a speed limit. The reason was the growing cowboy atmosphere, the "get out of my way" mentality. That accident was however the "impetus" behind the speed limit. It was the shock that got some people up off their butts with the determination to do something about the lakes problems.

They felt a speed limit was a do-able solution. More enforcement and education might have been a better solution, but they require serious funding, and that just was NOT going to happen. Better to go with a plan that might actually happen, than with a better plan that has no chance at all.

The speed limit was never intended to "fix" the lake. It is just one way to make things a little better over time. Or perhaps just slow the rate of decline. It is not a "magic bullet" fix and was never intended as such. A speed limit does not bring about a quick victory, it will not "change the lake" in only a year or two. It will change the lake by thousands of small victories.

My brother-in-laws friend has been bringing his performance boat to Winni for years. This year he went to Long Lake because of the speed limit. A small victory.

Imagine a wife standing in a boat showroom and saying "why are we spending all this extra cash for a boat that will go 80 MPH when the lake has a 45 MPH limit?" You can also imagine the husband with a pained expression and a salesman that is looking at the floor. When this happens it will be another small victory.

The speed limit, enforced or not, sets a standard of behavior. It points the lake in a different direction. It sends a message to the cowboys. And that message is "go elsewhere".

If you read the Winnipesaukee speed limits law passed by the NH legislature, it allows for organized motorboat racing. So, why not try for some type of racing three-hour time span, say Saturdays from 9-noon, and seek out some friendly commercial sponsors who get their logo on one of the marker buoys.

Picture this; four large marker buoys that delineate a 5-mile dragstrip on the water somewhere. Each marker buoy has a friendly commercial sponsor such as Progressive Insurance, Hannaford's, Hawaiian Suntan bikini team, and H K Motorsports.

Picture this; it's 9am Saturday at the starting line, a spot between Parker Island and Clay Point: Ladies & Gentlemen, start your engines; ready, set, and bang.......and it's the start to another Lake Winnipesaukee, Saturday morning at the weekly, watery drag strip for a speedy morning at the races.....yahooooo....weeee-doggie! That could be a very happening event!

Sounds good....gotta love the sound of V8 big-blocks cranking out 625 horses as the big boats power down the broads.....a very happening weekly event! Would it attract a spectator's gallery of boaters just there to watch the races? Most likely yes......I know I'd be there! So, be there, or be a square.....high speed motorboats have a place to go.....on a watery drag strip.....and everybody is happy......budda-budda-boom!

Two very conflicting statements. Congress acts like the first, flinging any terrible law at whatever the problem of the day is.

The message to the cowboys used to be Wyatt Earp. Now it's sending "messages". So there are still idiots on the lake, going well under the speed limit, most of whom do not drive high HP boats.

I gave you too much credit BI.

Funny, I just put a deposit down on another "performance boat" yesterday...trading in my '89 "performance boat" for another. A small defeat for you. As with the last I will use it in a safe and prudent manner that is suitable for the conditions in which I choose to operate it. As do my friends with their "performance boats". There has been no mass exodus of boats that can easily exceed the speed limit and that do on a regular basis. Or will there be.

Bear Islander you with your personal agenda as well as others of the same ilk will NEVER influence my decision to buy a certain type of boat or where or how to operate it. And I'm confident that my other "performance" minded boat owning friends to a person would agree with me. BTW, My wife suggested that it was time for a new one. Yet another apparent defeat.

I have yet to be pulled over in the broads when operating my boat, the same is true as when driving my car on I93 in excess of the SL. For those boaters that do get stopped for "speeding", I'd be willing to bet that they were also operating in an unsafe and imprudent manner in a high traffic area. Not out on the main part of the lake with plenty of room.

Yankee - I think you've died and gone to heaven. The WIFE suggested it was time for a new one? Take care of that Mrs. she's a keeper!

So I'll answer my own question. No, the SL has done nothing to calm down the BI NWZ, but over a period of decades, perhaps most people will be either sailing, or driving 16' outboards with 5 hp, maybe even solar engines.

The wakes are big, and the HP limit we will seek in the future will put and end to any boat that has more than 300 hp, hopefully less than that. We knew that nothing would come of this law, but there will be more to come. And Jeezum Crow, we wanted to do something.

You've hit it square on the head VTSteve. The next target will be the amount of horsepower that a boat can have. And after that, it will be limits on a boat's displacement. And because a boat won't be able to go fast anymore, the excuse will be the big scary wakes that they make.

I think that in the end, motorized boats will be outlawed except for the priviledged few.

"The sky is falling, the sky is falling".

At some point SOTD, you'll be recanting all of your great stories of sitting on the dock in peace and quiet. Similar to your new stories in the BP area, which conflict wildly with what you say the SL has done for the lake. The fact that you can so fluently spew this kind of waste and try to sell it as observations and truth, makes everyone suspect of all future moves.

I know you'll be able to do it, as you can do 180 degree turns on a dime better than anyone. At headway speed, I wonder how long it takes you to travel to the BP area.

Instead of allowing the "privileged few" to use power boats, I hope it will be islanders that get to keep their power boats. After all, we NEED them to get to and from our homes.

However legislation like that will be a long time coming, if ever, and I will not support it.

What I will support is a 300 HP limit for boats manufactured after 2012. Exceptions for commercial boats and law enforcement obviously.

This simply astounds me. This is a quote which must be saved for future reference. My lord, my 25 foot cuddy is within 40 horsepower of that limit and it is underpowered by most standards. If I abide by the relevant speed limit and obey the various boating, navigation and rules of passage, of what business is it of your to limit the horsepower on my boat? Are you postulating that a boat of more than the "approved" horsepower is prima facie evidence that one is a cowboy or will otherwise violate the above rules, or is this simply in pursuit of what I now believe to be the ultimate goal of Winnfabs and its fellow travelers, namely through various means over a period of time to effectively ban all but the boats which the Winnfabs crowd approves of. How about we make rules so that no boat capable of violating all of the other rules can be operated on the Lake – problem of enforcement and marine patrol funding solved! First a speed limit, then reductions in the speed limit, then proliferating no wake zones, then a horsepower restriction, then a reduction in the horsepower restriction and then whatever else this group can think of. I think this “make the lake safe” mantra has confirmed its true intentions and in so doing may have awakened a sleeping giant among those who, like me, own more kayaks, row boats and canoes than power boats, have one boat which on a good day can maybe exceed the daytime speed limit, but have had it up to my eyeballs with this crowd. I certainly will do all I can at the next opportunity to counter this trend.

Many lakes and ponds in New Hampshire and around the country have horsepower limits. I have argued on this forum for a HP limit since 2002, nothing new about that.

I have read many times that the only solution to the cowboy mentality is enforcement and education. That there is no way to legislate a solution. But think about the effects of a REALLY low HP limit. A 100 HP or 50 HP limit would change this lake over night. A drastic solution to be sure. However the premise does prove that you CAN legislate serious change.

No contradiction at all. Unquestionably the lake is quieter and more civilized than it's been in many years. Many agree. And yes, we did go to the BP today and saw boats going in both directions through this narrow area. It didn't take long, maybe 5 minutes, to see how fast boats were closer than 150' from the island, each other, and that the wakes were quite large. I do indeed pity the people on those 2 little islands, if for no other reason than that irritating drone from the GFBL's that passed. Didn't see Cecil B. Demille, a.k.a. HN filming however. And given the number of posters who regularly brag about breaking the SL (and one who bragged last year and probably wishes he hadn't), I hope these people fight to retain their hard won gains. As for all the futile talk that the SL could ever be repealed, I would think the Little Birch and Squirrel Is. people would use that argument too.
Hey...what happened to that kinder, gentler VtSteve who promised to behave a short while back? Now that was a short lived Epiphany.

HP limits in New Hampshire...
 

Good point.

And while they are considerably smaller than the big Lake, there are a number of bodies of water in New Hampshire that already have horsepower limits. So indeed the lawmakers here in New Hampshire are also quite familiar with that concept.

I am confused about one thing though.

Those that supported the speed limit legislation by and large believe that there has been a positive effect on the Lake since implementation. A positive effect means that if the State believes in that perception then further legislation or restrictions are probably not that imminent. It is the nature of politics.

On the flip side of the coin a number of folks here opposed to speed limit legislation continue to state that the regulation has had no effect, and give numerous examples of how the Lake, in their perception, remains as or more dangerous. A negative effect usually results in the State not rolling back legislation, but in increasing more and more layered legislation to force people into compliance. It is the nature of politics.

Without taking sides in the debate, if I was a legislator with little or no ties to the Lake (like many are) and I viewed this website as an authoritive source of information (to which many here argued when the boating thread was temporarily moderated) I could easily be convinced that additional legislation is warranted. A lobbyist may not have a hard time convincing me of same.

I'm not taking sides in the debate but just offering an insight as to not only how the speed limit legislation was passed, with all its additional riders (dmv points, all water bodies subjected to General Boating requirements) but how Bear Islander's predictions could easily pass the Legislature in future sessions.

Interesting corners, in my humble opinion, that some folks may be painting themselves in to! ;)

Enforcement
 

Skip,

I believe that the real issue is that safety minded people need to fully support the Marine Patrol to enforce all of the existing laws (including the speed limit), and to oppose the legislature and governor's raiding of the MP budget (particularly when the department is really a profit center).

I think they are interrelated....
 

But therein lies the rub....

The Legislature will never admit that they are raiding a fund. If they truly view it as a "profit center" as you indicate then they will justify the transfer of funds as excess monies.

It is human nature for them to believe that they are not harming the Marine Patrol mission, that is why they will be easy to convince that the only solution is to layer on more restrictive legislation.

By the way, it was a great pleasure to get to talk to you at length last week. Hope we get to do it again some time in the future!

When I have a few moments more I will opine on while it may be aggravating at times to boat on Winni, or any other waterbody in New Hampshire, the statistics show that boating is a very safe activity in this State. I will use snowmobiling as a comparable.

But that's for another time & another thread as I am still awaiting some additional statistics...:)

Your logic is, well, illogical. No, it is nonsencical, and does nothing to prove your premise. For example, how do you propose the local officials test for horsepower? Becasue they would have to test each boat and everytime it goes out. All my vehicle's engines--including my boat and are anything but in a stock configuration. What makes you think that engines mods would suddenly stop? Legislate that.

Still you spew the mantra that a law enacted in the worst economy on 80 years is the sole reason for no speeding tickets, and a "quieter lake". Your twisted logic concludes that no speeding tickets is exclusive to SL legislation?

Lastly, you insist on and continue to insult performance boat owners such as myself by calling us "cowboys". Perhaps the webmaster should step in and remind you of the rules of this forum. I'm sure that you would not find it becoming if "us cowboys" started calling you and others of like opinion "lake geezers" or such other IMO, appropriate term:).

Post script: This whole discussion is stupid. Attempting to have a factual, cogent discussion with you is like trying to push on a rope that's been dangling in the water all summer: you can't and all you do end up with is a slimy hand.

giddy up.

Skip, respectfully, this is why the tea party movement is relevent. We are sick of the way things have always been done, Repubs and Dems. We need a new way to conduct the People's Business.

Legislation Gone Wild, coming to a TV set soon?
 

I truly see your point, but don't want this to morph into an unrelated political thread.

But you and others (I hope) see what I have seen go on in the legislature for the past decades I've had to follow it.

Many people ask "how did we get all these convoluted laws and regulations"? I think the speed limit issue, and how it expanded from a single issue on a single lake, into a law that covers all lakes on some issues, one lake on one issue and now interweaves with your Driver's License is a perfect example of legislation gone wild!

Hey, maybe we could get one of the cable channels to pick this up as a reality series: Legislation Gone Wild! I'd think that BI would make the perfect host...that is after he safely returns from orbit....:D

Great points Skip, several of which I have made myself. There are far too many power-hungry idiots around that would do this. When ten laws are not being enforced, we must need ten more. It's obviously not hard to convince people that safety must be the motive, so they go along.

If you get enough of these people taking advantage of people that don't really read, or have inquisitive minds, you end up with people like SOTD.

But I do understand your thoughts, very well. I don't have any faith in today's society, it shocks me when they actually do the right thing. But what does shock me is the end nature of the entire SL thing. Some people actually believed the BS about safety and all. They didn't want to participate in discussions about the MP fund being raided, or more SL discussions, because it would rile their Feelings. They don't like controversy, much less confrontation. They'd rather have people rule their lives and hope it doesn't impact them.

I see this sense of inevitability in your comments as well. Don't rock the boat, because they will tip you over. Eventually, the wave comes back to the source. The most active terrorist here is now BI, he has come out of his little island, and hopes to have a grander scheme.

Can we keep some of the rhetoric in check?
 

Respectfully Steve, isn't that a pretty harsh statement?

I've had the pleasure of meeting Bear Islander at a previous forum fest and spending a pleasant amount of time agreeing and disagreeing with him on a number of issues.

I found him to be an extremely bright, interesting and very polite individual. There's a lot of things I might call him, but terrorist is not one of them! ;)

I am sure there are a number of other posters here that I haven't met, including you, that I would find very interesting to spend some time with. Vitabene comes immediately to mind from the recent forumfest.

I just wish we could all tone the rhetoric and name calling down while we discuss these contentious issues.

The reality is we may be building walls with people we never met, who if we had the opportunity we would find are individuals we may have been friends with if given the chance.

I have a lot of friends that look at life completely different than me. We disagree but we don't insult each other when we do. Gosh, if everyone I associated with agreed with me I'd have a petty damned boring life!

Wish we could practice just a wee bit more civility here, on both sides of the equation....:)

You have to be kidding
 

Every "No wake" area brings larger wakes as boats slow down and speed up. Get a "No wake" zone in front of your house, get larger wakes. Is that what people want?

A 300 HP limit?

So your adgenda is clear: Make Winnipesaukee into a pond with canoes and kayaks.

Perhaps you are just that dense. Most cruisers and liveaboards, even with small blocks V8's have 500+ HP. Many have much more. Is it your intention that all of those boats leave the lake?

Marinas like Silver Sands, Spinnaker Cove, MVYC (284 slips occupied by Gilford taxpayers that ask for little if any services) are full of boats with families that spend their weekends and vacations on their boats. Did you want to throw them off the lake or just diminish the value of their docks? What happens to the town of Gilford when they lose in excess of 1/2 million dollars in tax revenue from people that use no services?

What about the other marinas with boats over 30 feet? What do you say to them? Find 10 kayak owners to rent your dock?

What happens to the value of these boat docks? What do you say to all of the owners? "Sucks to be you"?

BI, please answer each specific question. You obviously have an adgenda that has not been well thought out and will do irreparable harm to the lake and the finances of the communities around it. Is that what you really want?