Stores and mask mandate
 

The governor's mask mandate is here: https://www.governor.nh.gov/sites/g/...y-order-74.pdf

What I've observed in the Lakes Region:

Dollar Tree employees and managers (Tilton, Plymouth) appear to be ignoring the mandate; several are not wearing masks. Many are wearing them improperly (below the nose).

Ditto for Dollar General in Ashland. (Same owner as Dollar Tree.)

Tractor Supply: The mask mandate is posted at the entrance, but people freely enter the store with no mask and employees make no effort to even ask them if they have a mask or offer them a mask.

On the other side of the coin, 100% of the customers and employees I see in Market Basket are wearing masks and there are no disputes about wearing them. However, I believe Market Basket allows employees to wear face shields with no mask, which has been shown by scientists to offer almost no protection to people near them.

Why are there these differences among stores? I'm assuming it has something to do with the corporate culture of each store and how headquarters administrators are communicating policies to local managers.

A popular explanation from stores is is, "State law will not allow us to force people to wear masks." Also, "Under state law, we're not allow to ask people if they have a medical condition, so we can't enforce the mask mandate."

This situation is a bit baffling because it looks like the mandate is unenforceable, so why have it?? I don't get this.

N-95 medical quality masks made by 3M and other makers are now available for about ten masks/$30 on Ebay and Amazon. They are a better fit with more effective material than the common cloth masks. The lungs you protect could be your own! How much are your lungs worth to you?

Golden View Nursing Home in Meredith has suffered six Covid-19 deaths including both health staff and residents - a total of 56-residents and 52-staff have tested positive - news report, December 31, Laconia Daily Sun.

Starting January 20 at a couple minutes past noon, a big national information campaign for everyone to mask-up will probably be initiated but why wait till then to get a ten-pack of N-95 medical quality masks.

Who cares.....

Bingo!

It's all about culture. At places that don't believe in masks and/or fear grumpy maskless customers, they put up some sort of BS fig leaf such as you described.

NH is where Mass was a few months ago with varying levels of compliance. I don't think any person would enter any store in Mass (at least eastern Mass) without a properly worn mask today.

I don't give a rusty toot about this thread.

That’s because everyone from Mass is now in NH bloviating about how NH is doing everything wrong.

You should--it's a really important lakes region issue. Reported only 2 days ago--over 100 people infected and 6 dead in just one spot in Meredith. It only takes something like one young healthy worker not being quite careful enough

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...77891dbc5.html

Thank you for this information. I didn't know about this outbreak at Golden View. A good neighbor and friend is a nurse there. That answers the question, why should we care?

It's Golden view, but still the same message.
Glad you agree.

It may sound like it's confined to this facility but these workers go out in the community just like the rest of us before they know they are infected and that's how it spreads.

The bottom line is that Covid-19 is a very sneaky, cruel disease. You can become infected with it yesterday, show no symptoms today, tomorrow, or next week, and then suddenly become sick, and recover or die.

Meanwhile, over that two week period, you may have been unknowingly spreading it to others, and the process repeats itself. So far, over 20 million times in the United States (20,000,000 USA infections so far).

Most survive, but 350,000 thousand folks have not. Sad, very sad.

Let's hope that we return to some sort of normalcy by 2022. Say a prayer.

My original post was about stroes and store management. We don't have to go to parties, restaurants, etc. We do have to go to stores for food and essential items. Therefore stores have a primary social responsibility to protect customers by requiring their employees to wear masks and by enforcing the governor's mask mandate for everyone in the store.

I'm tired of hearing that employees have a health condition and can't wear a mask. A condition for working in any public position should be that the employee not pose a danger to public health. The employees' health problem isn't more important than public safety.

So what is Tractor Supply's corporate culture that seems to be anti-mask? I've always liked my local Tractor Supply, but they've dropped the ball in the pandemic.

My father spent his last years at Golden View, expiring of non-covid causes in mid-year.

That is a nice, upscale facility, the kind of place that I am certain tried to take all necessary precautions to protect their vulnerable residents: yet they failed.

This should be a wake up call to anti-maskers: Covid-19 is here, and if you have it and are asymptomatic you can give it to others, and multiple deaths may ensue.

Choosing not to wear a mask while in close contact with others is like a drunk walking through a hay field, blithely lighting and throwing lit matches willy-nilly.

Well, an easy solution for those who don't wish to chance running into someone not wearing a mask is to order curbside pickup so you don't have to go inside until you get the vaccine. Thankfully the vaccine is here so those at risk can get the vaccine and not worry any longer.

Hubby and I will be at the back of the line -- low risk, healthy, wear masks when required. We also sanitize, which I don't see many doing any longer. Others need the vaccine more than us so we will not rush to get it.

I've been wondering:

]Will those who get vaccinated stop wearing masks and no longer worry about those who do not wear masks?
And will the vaccinated not worry if others choose to not be vaccinated?

We are told the vaccine is close to 100% effective. Therefore, masks can be shed and life will return to normal...

No Shirt. No Shoes. No Service.

Any business or property owner can set restrictions on who may access their property. Anyone who declines to accept these conditions can be asked to leave. Refusal to leave is trespass and can result in arrest.

Same for a mask.

I don't blame the employees for not wanting to confront customers that don't follow the mandate.

But I do blame management if employees themselves don't follow the mandate.

If I routinely see employees not following the mandate I just won't go there.

One sad thing I heard once that employees know of customers that rip them off every day and they don't approach them or do a thing about it. They just don't want to deal with the confrontation and I can't say I blame them.

Wearing masks isn't just to protect yourself, it's to protect others and healthcare workers from being over burdened.
It's a pretty simple request to help society. As will be getting vaccinated when available to you. Again, that isn't just for YOU.

Not true, I see just as many not wear masks entering stores in MA or NH.

I think store employees/management are better in MA but I have not taken survey.

There remains uncertainty regarding whether a vaccinated person can still contract COVID and transmit it (even though they themselves won't get ill). Unless that possibility is scientifically disproven, I think people will continue to be encouraged to wear masks. Even if that is not disproven, after more time passes, herd immunity should come into play and with that, I think, masks go out the window.

I may have a biased sample--Cambridge and suburbs inside of 45 minutes or so from Boston. In these places I have not seen an unmasked person inside a store for many months. As another noted--no shirt, no shoes...

Where are you seeing unmasked people indoors in Mass?

Well we all hope that things will return to normal at some time in the near future, but in the meantime it is advised that folks continue wearing masks.

From what I have heard, even though one may have had the vaccine injections, they can still contract Covid-19. The difference is they likely won't get nearly as sick and won't die from it. Is this true? I don't know, but it is what I have heard.

It's all uncharted territory!

Home Depot, Stop & Shop. I agree the further you get away from the city the more you see of it. I'm typically west of 495.

It could be when I go, I try to choose low traffic hours and maybe the same crowd thinks they can go at those times and not wear a mask.
If the parking lot is even close to half full I won't even go in. Not worth it.

What I get a kick out of is when I see a family where either the Parents have masks and the kids don't or Visa Versa. Can't tell you how many times I've noticed that.

Oh and there is the crowd that thinks they get credit for wearing a mask but leave their nose out ;)

One benefit of wearing a mask outdoors in winter is it keeps your face warm.

Personally, there's no way I would entrust a store employee to select and pack my groceries during a pandemic.

But you trust the employee that put the stuff on the shelves? Do you skip the produce that might have been touched by anyone moments ago?

It's primarily air born transmitted, the less you share air the better off you are.

We have used curb side pickup, BJ's has been pretty good.

PeaPod (at Stop & Shop) has been a nightmare. The order is half filled and 1 in 10 things were substitutes or things that were not on the "Deal" we signed up for. Like something might be buy 1 gallon get 1 gallon free and we get 8 quarts at 3x the cost of the original deal.

We've done Berticcu's, Hart's Turkey Farm, Homestead, take out. All worked out great. And would do again even right now. Big Catch we did a few times but they were pretty lax.

We did a few eat in's during the pandemic "Lull" this summer, especially in NH. Italian Farm House, Polly's, Rossi's Italian. Polly's felt safe and they did "Tracing" in case something happened they could contact you. Italian Farm House didn't feel very safe, they were busy and we would not do again until Pandemic is over. Rossi's felt ok, mainly because not many customers.

We just tried Amazon / Whole Foods online shopping.

We have a winner.

They text you when the begin shopping.

They text you and ask about substitutes.

They text you when it’s being packed.

They showed up about an hour after that.

Free packing (PeaPod charges for that)
Free shipping (over $35) (PeaPod charges for that)

Order was 100% filled with one substitute that we approved in real time.

Definitely will do again, could get used to this even post COVID.

I’m not sure how far up the closest Whole Foods is to the lakes region or the range they will go.

We have used Instacart for many months. I monitor the shopping and regularly “chat” with the shopper. Sometimes the shopper sends a photo of a shelf and asks which product we prefer. It is not cheap, but definitely worth it. For groceries, you can choose Hannafords or Shaws. The shoppers have been uniformly excellent. Win-win for us.

As far as Covid, there is no question it is safer than entering the market itself.

..... from Belknap County, NH
 

NY Times report on spread of corona virus in Belknap County, N.H.:

Tracking coronavirus in Belknap County, New Hampshire

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...vid-cases.html

Every county in the country can be looked at, individually, with this NY Times coronavirus tracker.

Don't know about you but I've been going with two masks, an N95 under, with a 3-ply cloth mask over for food shopping inside the super market.

We switched to KN95 masks a few weeks ago. Much better protection than the simple cloth we were using. Easy to buy on Amazon

I live in eastern MA. I, and my colleagues at work all hate masks BUT if it will help to protect me and others from getting the virus I will wear it no matter what. Masks are mandated in our school. It has not been a problem. I am getting the vaccine this week but will continue to wear the mask as long as I have too. The virus is real. My "rights" are not being taken away. I believe we are helping each other, family, neighbors and co workers by wearing the mask. If we all accepted these temporary rules maybe the number of cases would be dropping not rising. I want this to go away!

Sure the virus is real. Also sure is masks don’t have any appreciable effect as borne out by current numbers. Getting the vaccine and continuing to wear a mask “as long as you have to?” That’s just sad. Is there any unconstitutional government overreach to which you won’t capitulate? Putting the word rights in quotes is telling. We would really be helping each other if we all stayed home. Why not do that? Everyone wants it to go away and every forum member is glad to hear when others get the vaccine. But some people would wear masks for five more years if the government suggested it miiiight help. The country was founded because Americans didn’t just accept temporary government rules like the Stamp Act, quartering of troops, tea tax, etc. find your spine. Think, just don’t feel.


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January 29, 2021: CDC mask travel guidance .... http://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/masks/...-guidance.html ..... is an historic United States shame this was not issued much earlier, like on March or April 29, 2020 ..... last year!

On May 1, 2020, Gov Chris Sununu held a two hour public announcement from the NH State House where he issued all the new corona virus mandates for NH businesses and residents.

As usual, I agree with almost all of your comments. But for clarification, KN95 is a designation used by the Chinese government, not a US rating. As such, compliance by Chinese manufacturers with that standard is spotty. There have been numerous examples of fraud as there are with many such Chinese products. I have also bought some of these masks but I have no way of knowing whether they really perform as they are supposed to.

The whole “non-medical”use masks (as almost all the masks including KN95 masks are so labelled) is confusing. But that is where we are. And using a mask is better than not using one. The N95 designation is recognized for PPE.

Now if we could all learn to use them properly, they would be even more effective.

Just like the vaccines, nothing is 100%, including masks. Even N95 masks are 95% effective, wonder where the name comes from. Everything we do, is to speed up the burn out. Masks have been used for a century in the medical community to REDUCE the spread of germs.

This is a good quote I found.

If the government asked me to wear a mask in public, for the greater good, I would.
If the government asked me to stay home for a year, I would.
If the government asked me to risk my life and go to war, I would.

Yes, I would wear a mask 5 more years if that is the general consensus and government requested.

Seems like a mask is a pretty small inconvenience. Nobody loves wearing them.

If you have guns would you turn them in if the government asked you? It would make things safer if everyone did that. If you were a coal miner and the government asked to you quit your job and move cross country to attach solar panels would you do that? It’s an inconvenience but it’s for the greater good after all. Don’t you care about others.

Forgive the sarcasm in making my point but it really is a logical extension of your philosophy. My philosophy is that liberty is more important than safety. A lot of people disagree. I think that In colonial times about a third of the colonists were loyal to the Crown. Back then everyone looked forward to the end of the Revolutionary War. Today we all look forward to the end of the China virus. Thankfully it will come soon and you won’t need to decide if you’ll comply if e.g., your local Board of Health says you must wear masks for fifteen more years.


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Not that I agree with you, this was a great post and I mean that. Even though you picked a horrible example because I absolutely loath guns ;). But I understood your point.

I think your post does shine a clear light on our differences of opinion. And you have every right to have your opinion and I respect your opinion, even though I don't agree with it. We can agree to disagree with out beating each other up.

But, like it or not, we live in a balanced country.

Government demands you pay taxes and I assume you do ;) Government demands you get your car inspected and you have to pay for it and I assume you do. Because you know it's for the greater good. We need schools, roads, fire departments and not have to worry about being run over by a junk heap that has no brakes or headlights.

It sounds like you'd take the vaccine today, if offered, maybe that's big assumption. But if it was mandated by government it sounds like you wouldn't (because liberty trumps safety). Just because the Government made a logical choice.

We live in a commonwealth. We all wouldn't have what we have if there wasn't a lot of "for the greater good thinking" in the past. Along with a balance of liberties.

To me, a mask for 5 years is a better than a ventilator for 2 months. It's common sense. Maybe masks are 25% efficacy, they help.

There was confusion in the begging around masks. Because there was concerns that folks didn't know how to use them. You'd touch something infected then touch the mask etc. I think that thinking has changed. You are just reducing the cloud of germs you launch as you breath. And you reduce other clouds reaching you. You can choose to believe that or not. But I think you'll find most medical professionals will agree a mask helps.

I think safety trumps a minor imposition on your liberties. Like getting an inspection sticker is not a big deal. If you think mandating masks is overreaching that balance, you have that right. But I think your overreacting. That's just my opinion.

Here is what I think. If we don't take modest measures, like take the vaccine, wear our masks, social distance etc.. It will be MUCH worse and the government WILL mandate much more severe inconveniences against your liberties, like you MUST stay at home, you'll need a permit to go in public that you are a required worker etc. It will get really ugly. I'd like to avoid that.

Think of it this way. If last January (maybe earlier) the governments (around the world). Demanded no one leave home for 1 month COVID might be dead. Right now, I'd trade that for what we've gone through so far.

Since it is so hard to measure this invisible COVID disease, tests are not perfect, some people are not symptomatic, you maybe have to "overreact" or over protect more than might be intuitive. Like wear masks and social distance for 6 more months AFTER the last detected case in USA. As a safety measure. As a buffer.

Think of it like antibiotics. As you may know it's really important that you take the full course of medication for say 14 days. But by day 10 you feel great, and you stop taking it. But there are couple of the strongest germs still left in your body that are resisting. The few, but weak germs are not enough to make you feel sick. But you stop taking the antibiotic. Those weak germs recover and start reproducing. Now you have a new infection a month later that is more resistant to the antibiotic. Now you need a different antibiotic (if there is one) or a stronger dose for a longer period.

Think of the whole world has an infection. And Masks, Vaccines, Social Distancing, and Testing are the current antibiotic we are using. We have to use what we have to make them the most effective and run the full course. We don't know what the full course is either. So officials will have to guess. And it's better to guess to much than to little. Be prepared for it.

Yours was a great post also. I enjoyed reading it. Well reasoned with good analogies. I respect your opinion too. You’re affable, sincere, polite, and we disagree. [emoji3].

You loath guns but to your credit would take up arms if called into service. I think most people would hate to have to use one but in the defense of self or others it’d be a handy device.

I will definitely get the vaccine because it is a vaccine. If it were mandated by government I would get it because it is a vaccine. Government plays a valid role in public health by the democratic with the consent of the government. Not by an unconstitutional edict by a rogue power hungry governor.

People can wear masks or helmets or burkas for decades if they like. I don’t care. To some people a mask for twenty years would arguably be better than a ventilator for twenty hours. To others not so much. It was the initial and continuing overreaction combined with the pedantic, paternalistic, condescending, self-satisfied, attitudes of people who have been proven to have had no idea what they were talking that riled and riles freedom loving citizens.

The gloves, the disinfectant wipes, etc. All of it silly and people who just wanted to be in the club blindly following the blind.

The government can’t mandate staying at home. There’s a constitutional right to freedom of movement. Non-diseased people can’t be quarantined. It’s false imprisonments. Like that nonsense when Governor Patrick told everyone to stay home while the Boston bombers were being fought just because he liked to say “shelter in place.” lol. Absolutely unenforceable and laughable thing to try and do.

If everyone in the world had stayed home for a month the virus would still have spread. It’s a virus. That’s what it does. It’s from where the phrase “going viral” comes. Viruses win at hide and seek. They need to be endured until a vaccine can be injected in enough people to make the dent. Thankfully that’s where things are. It will be wonderful if summer comes and we are almost at the finish line.




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Good point on Chinese labeling not being as reliable as ours.

One of my neighbors is a researcher at MIT, and she has personally tested numerous brands. This is from a post of hers on another forum, including links to purchase:

High-quality surgical mask suppliers
Examples of brands and suppliers of masks with >90% filtration that I have tested at Lincoln Labs and U. Mass Lowell (data and assay information available by request, jrc@mit.edu) and/or that Aaron Collins has tested (see 3rd tab here https://tinyurl.com/y6yyz7w3 and video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu0GkjOpOj0).

• BLUNA, Dr. Puri, Blue and BOTN KF94 masks from behealthyusa.net
• LG Airwasher KF94 from https://www.everydaybeautylab.com/ppe
• Powecom KN95 masks from bonafidemasks.com/Powecom-kn-95/
• AirQueen Breeze (comes with earloop clip), AirBon (child size) and AirQueen from https://tinyurl.com/yxwd9pf6
• Printed masks from https://masklab.us/
• Flat masks from https://www.armbrustusa.com/

I don't trust anything made in China near my face. That goes for pillows, mattresses and masks. Who knows what kind of toxic substances are included. I don't want to breathe any of it in. Look for Made in USA.

Understood. The KF94 masks in my previous post are from South Korea. I'm not sure any in the list are from USA. If somebody knows of high protection US masks, I hope they'll share.

Lutema masks are made in US and have several versions. The 5 ply are well made and fit well. They can be bought on Amazon, but the company’s website has more description. It’s still a seller’s market.

Starks
 

We've been buying masks from Starks. Located in Washington State. Primarily a vacuum cleaner company preCovid, has lots of experience with filters. Masks come in multiple colors and sizes. Very comfortable, multi-layered, washable, no fogging.

www.starks.com