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-   -   The Dive! (https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24408)

joey2665 05-22-2019 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin (Post 312122)
Well, it looks like we will have a lot to talk about in regards tot he DIVE.

On the issue of what kind of complaints might come from adjacent property owners, until you know what has been discussed with them, all you are doing is speculating that there may or may not be a problem. I know I would have an issue, but hey if the DIVE came in and said, we will compensate you, it could bring a different twist to the issue...

I would hope and think that ECFC and the DIVE, have done their homework before setting things up...

I think for me the biggest question is just how often is the DIVE, going to leave Port.... If she is out all the time, how they dock her really isn't a big inconvience. However if she is to be there more often then not, and serving food etc. then not only is there a issue with views, and boat maneuvering, but also with smell etc. Which you could argue already exists because of the other restaurants but he, sometime a new restaurant might bring a bad odor....

The complaints have already started. See post #53 above. The dive's current mooring location has blocked their view and creates a safety issue according to them.

Hopefully as you said East Coast and the neighbors can come up with so type of arrangement, that is assuming the current location is legal.

LIforrelaxin 05-22-2019 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joey2665 (Post 312126)
The complaints have already started. See post #53 above. The dive's current mooring location has blocked their view and creates a safety issue according to them.

Hopefully as you said East Coast and the neighbors can come up with so type of arrangement, that is assuming the current location is legal.

Thanks I guess I missed that post....
Definitely blocks the view there is no doubt about that. As far as posing a safety issue well that I would have to be convinced of...

More importantly however it doesn't sound like Winnipesaukee Peir (ECFC) or the DIVE, tried to do a little neighborly conversing before making such a decision. However once again if they have done things correctly, and obtained permits, there maybe very little that the home owners can do. Unless they weren't notified, and there is a stipulation in a permit application that states they needed to be.

Descant 05-22-2019 01:18 PM

It's interesting how generally positive the Dive conversation is on IBOW and how generally negative it is here.
I expect all the docks in the area were established well before the current regulations came into being, so, "grandfathered". Yes, if you do something that creates a (new) hazard to navigation you may have to undo whatever.

joey2665 05-22-2019 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Descant (Post 312142)
It's interesting how generally positive the Dive conversation is on IBOW and how generally negative it is here.
I expect all the docks in the area were established well before the current regulations came into being, so, "grandfathered". Yes, if you do something that creates a (new) hazard to navigation you may have to undo whatever.

I find IBOW to have a very different demographic that winnipesaukee.com. IBOW tends to be a younger crowd that is more into water sports and the bar scene. This site tends to have more established and long time lake residents. Just my observation I have never completed a survey

fatlazyless 05-22-2019 01:58 PM

..... boat'n n beer!
 
.....think I'll head down to The Dive and get myself a cold, dark Guinness ...... how much for a Guinness at The Dive? ...... probably if I identify myself they will give it to me for free ...... one beer and I'm too gone to be driving the car .... honestly ... so, is best to be boat'n there ...... boat'n n beer ..... go together like ...... (finish this line here) .......

Outdoorsman 05-22-2019 02:54 PM

What is interesting is that just a year ago, when the dive first made an appearance on the lake, people were up in arms because she was parking at the sand bar. Fast forward to today, people are up in arms because she is parked in the Weirs.

I wonder how many are the same people that are just going to complain no matter what?

Source:
https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...highlight=dive

Views: 107,837
Replies : 752

Free publicity though....

tmrealtors 05-22-2019 06:00 PM

4 Attachment(s)
Here are some photos of my new view. I know everyone has their opinions but please imagine if this was your home you live in and how you would feel losing any portion of your view you have always had.
I was never notified as an abutter of this and although they say they leave all day to go to the sand bar...they have not moved in a week. I can't imagine them leaving 7 days a week even on windy, chilly days this Summer. My poor neighbors behind me now only see the dive when they look out their back porches.

***Hoping the owners consider all us neighbors and do the right thing***

joey2665 05-22-2019 06:27 PM

I like the Dive but that is not right


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fatlazyless 05-22-2019 07:02 PM

..... impinge, clutter and encroach!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless (Post 312149)
.....think I'll head down to The Dive ...... one beer and I'm too gone to be driving the car ....boat'n n beer ..... go together like ...... (finish this line here) .......

....impinge, clutter and encroach are words that come to mind looking at the new view, out front your house, down the bottom of Simpson Ave, there....


..... so, boat'n n beer .... go together like "impinge, clutter and encroach" ..... well, it certainly does now with The Dive permanently parked there as your new, invasive neighbor.....

..... it's the new neighbor from Hell ...... hellooooooooo ...... "we are The Dive ..... and we be your new neighbor ..... helloooooo!" .....:rolleye2:

Mr. V 05-22-2019 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmrealtors (Post 312179)
Here are some photos of my new view. I know everyone has their opinions but please imagine if this was your home you live in and how you would feel losing any portion of your view you have always had.

That seems no different than someone living on a hillside who had a good view until the owner of the lot in front of him decided to build a multi-level home which obstructs their view.

Sure, you don't like it: but what can you actually DO about it?

Legally, I mean.

TiltonBB 05-22-2019 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birchhaven (Post 312124)
The angle that the property line is at when it hits the water line has no effect. I am not aware of any actual laws the Dive is breaking but what do I know :)

That is incorrect. The property line continues into the lake for the purpose of docking. In other words, if your property line hits the lake at an angle (not perpendicular) that line continues at the same angle for purpose of docking.

jazzman 05-22-2019 09:53 PM

Well there is the view and the music thumping until 11PM every night (but then it was probably worse in the hayday of Winni Gardens.

I can't believe that it's legal to dock nose in like that. The Dive can't possibly be stable like that. Are the spuds down?

What is the docking like on a stiff NW wind (like yesterday)? It looks tricky to come in past the tail of the dive down wind and get onto your dock.

I'm all for free enterprise but this all doesn't smell right to me.

I suspect the Dive will remain docked most of the time. I don't think they ventured more than 1/4 mile from home base more than twice last year and they had no captive crowd on their home dock.

tis 05-23-2019 05:04 AM

I agree, I would not like to look at it either. That boat is like an orphan, nobody wants it in their back yard.

thinkxingu 05-23-2019 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tis (Post 312200)
I agree, I would not like to look at it either. That boat is like an orphan, nobody wants it in their back yard.

Nor would I want to hear it--it's essentially a nightclub moving next door.

That being said, has anyone actually asked the plan? I would think waiting too long will create a precedent.

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joey2665 05-23-2019 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinkxingu (Post 312202)
Nor would I want to hear it--it's essentially a nightclub moving next door.

That being said, has anyone actually asked the plan? I would think waiting too long will create a precedent.

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I just posed the question on their Facebook page to see if they have some type of schedule this season for visiting sand bars.

Also from their Facebook page they are selling tickets to board this weekend. The tickets are good for the day and you can board and disembark as you wish so obviously they are staying put this weekend.

Additionally looks like when the Weirs have their fireworks shows you will be able to board.

All this is making me lean towards they are not venturing out this season but I will report back when I have an answer


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upthesaukee 05-23-2019 07:07 AM

Maybe a name change would help
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tis (Post 312200)
I agree, I would not like to look at it either. That boat is like an orphan, nobody wants it in their back yard.

Maybe change name from "The Dive" to "NIMBY" or "NIMFY" (back yard or front yard).

Dave

PS, I wouldn't want to be looking at it or listening to the noise either.

joey2665 05-23-2019 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upthesaukee (Post 312206)
Maybe change name from "The Dive" to "NIMBY" or "NIMFY" (back yard or front yard).

Dave

PS, I wouldn't want to be looking at it or listening to the noise either.

Unfortunately given the history of the pier the noise is probably not violating any city ordinance.
I’m all for this business succeeding but not at the expense of being a nuisance to its neighbors


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Woodsy 05-23-2019 07:17 AM

Joey...

I asked that question when I was on the Dive Saturday night..... they do plan to be going to Braun Bay several times this summer. Will it be every weekend? That I do not know.

Woodsy

ishoot308 05-23-2019 07:18 AM

I have a hard time believing that the Dive or Flightcraft just made this move without checking with the town first...Does anyone here actually believe they made this move without checking if it was legal and within their rights before doing it??

As far as noise goes...Each town has an ordinance that must be complied with. If they are not complying you have gripe...if they are, tough luck! However, if you wanted serenity you don't buy a home at the Weirs 100' from the busiest pier on the lake!

Dan

Seaplane Pilot 05-23-2019 07:18 AM

There was a court case based in Moultonborough a few years ago where a property owner took his neighbor to court for parking a commercial barge at his property. Can’t recall the exact details; for instance whether view blocking came into play or not, but the court sided with the barge owner in the end. Other than violating any noise ordinances that may be in place, I think the Dive is probably not going to move voluntarily. Might not be “neighborly”, but I don’t think they are breaking any rules, laws or ordinances. On the other hand, I too wouldn’t want to have to look at it or listen to it.

Taz 05-23-2019 07:20 AM

Dive
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by joey2665 (Post 312205)
I just posed the question on their Facebook page to see if they have some type of schedule this season for visiting sand bars.

Also from their Facebook page they are selling tickets to board this weekend. The tickets are good for the day and you can board and disembark as you wish so obviously they are staying put this weekend.

Additionally looks like when the Weirs have their fireworks shows you will be able to board.

All this is making me lean towards they are not venturing out this season but I will report back when I have an answer


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I don't think there would be any schedule. I think they want to make the decision to go to a sand bar as last minute as possible due to weather, wind, chop etc. I would think they definitely will stay put until there are enough boaters/people and the water is warm enough to get in the water and walk at a sand bar. My guess is earliest would be mid to late June but maybe later.

Taz 05-23-2019 07:23 AM

Dive
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ishoot308 (Post 312209)
I have a hard time believing that the Dive or Flightcraft just made this move without checking with the town first...Does anyone here actually believe they made this move without checking if it was legal and within their rights before doing it??

As far as noise goes...Each town has an ordinance that must be complied with. If they are not complying you have gripe...if they are, tough luck! However, if you wanted serenity you don't buy a home at the Weirs 100' from the busiest pier on the lake!

Dan

I would hope so but then again they did not check with the town of Alton last fall and look how that turned out.

joey2665 05-23-2019 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taz (Post 312211)
I don't think there would be any schedule. I think they want to make the decision to go to a sand bar as last minute as possible due to weather, wind, chop etc. I would think they definitely will stay put until there are enough boaters/people and the water is warm enough to get in the water and walk at a sand bar. My guess is earliest would be mid to late June but maybe later.

Really asking to see if they are going to venture out this season or are staying at the pier


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Taz 05-23-2019 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmrealtors (Post 312179)
Here are some photos of my new view. I know everyone has their opinions but please imagine if this was your home you live in and how you would feel losing any portion of your view you have always had.
I was never notified as an abutter of this and although they say they leave all day to go to the sand bar...they have not moved in a week. I can't imagine them leaving 7 days a week even on windy, chilly days this Summer. My poor neighbors behind me now only see the dive when they look out their back porches.

***Hoping the owners consider all us neighbors and do the right thing***

I agree with you. I wouldn't like it. No recourse as you were not notified as an abutter? Unfortunately, I do not see it moving anytime soon because they need warm water and more people going to sand bars to be worth moving to a sand bar.

fatlazyless 05-23-2019 07:37 AM

.... the big fish in the lake?
 
Could be the Mount Washington has had conversations with the Marine Patrol and Laconia Zoning and would be happy for The Dive to stay way away from them, around behind the Winnipesaukee Pier, and basically out of sight.

Could be why the Marine Patrol and Laconia Zoning is slow to make any moves, after all, the Mount Washington is the big fish in the lake.

Taz 05-23-2019 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joey2665 (Post 312213)
Really asking to see if they are going to venture out this season or are staying at the pier


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They have said on their FB page when asked this question that they will be going to sand bars, quote "they love their sandbar crowd"

joey2665 05-23-2019 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taz (Post 312216)
They have said on their FB page when asked this question that they will be going to sand bars, quote "they love their sandbar crowd"



Thanks Taz. I didnít see your question and their response on their page. Hopefully good news for the neighborhood that it will be occasionally leaving.


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Taz 05-23-2019 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joey2665 (Post 312218)
Thanks Taz. I didnít see your question and their response on their page. Hopefully good news for the neighborhood that it will be occasionally leaving.


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It wasn't my question but I did see others asking and saw their quote to one of them. Still not sure I buy it though. Now they are further away from Braun Bay and Smalls Cove than last year. Going to Margate would also be a chore because it seems they would have to leave early morning and return after dark when the channel is not busy like work barges would. Then if they do go to Margate say on a Saturday they would lose out on pier business if they have to return later in the evening. Will have to see how it unfolds.

smith point boater 05-23-2019 07:51 AM

Moved??
 
The Dive is not visible on Weirs cam right now. Traveling or moved??

webmaster 05-23-2019 07:55 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by smith point boater (Post 312221)
The Dive is not visible on Weirs cam right now. Traveling or moved??

They're at the gas dock pumping out:

joey2665 05-23-2019 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taz (Post 312220)
It wasn't my question but I did see others asking and saw their quote to one of them. Still not sure I buy it though. Now they are further away from Braun Bay and Smalls Cove than last year. Going to Margate would also be a chore because it seems they would have to leave early morning and return after dark when the channel is not busy like work barges would. Then if they do go to Margate say on a Saturday they would lose out on pier business if they have to return later in the evening. Will have to see how it unfolds.

They are actually much closer to Braun Bay and can access other gathering spots like Timber Island and Patrician Shores


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Woodsy 05-23-2019 08:40 AM

The Pier is a commercial entity that has always had boats docked there. While I do sympathize with the property owners, they did buy next to a commercial enterprise and have to expect issues like this to arise.

Because the Dive is registered & licensed vessel, (that can and will leave & return) I seriously doubt the Pier is violating ANY town ordinances by having it docked at the end.

Woodsy

Taz 05-23-2019 08:41 AM

Dive
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by joey2665 (Post 312224)
They are actually much closer to Braun Bay and can access other gathering spots like Timber Island and Patrician Shores


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Maybe closer to Braun, maybe wrong about that but its still probably a 2 hour ride given how slow it is. I don't see anyway they go to Timber. Its not a sand bar so you can not walk to it and they can not use spuds there, also not enough customers there. There would be much more business at Smalls and Braun. I think Patrician would be tough. Its not nearly as big as Smalls, Braun and if they don't get there early all the boats will box them out to get to shallow water to use spuds and walk to it. I would be very surprised if they go to Patrician.

I agree with your earlier comment. I think they may stay at the pier a lot more than people think or they say. Many customers and not the headaches of driving long distances and then running out of supplies so far away. They said them selves that was a challenge for them.

AC2717 05-23-2019 08:56 AM

Laconia has a noise ordinance and it does not have particular time frames, neither does Gilford. i know this from my battle with China Bistro that hopefully ended a few years back. If you make a complaint they will come out when you call them for the complaint. They will also go and request noises be taken care of and could actually write them a ticket for it.

That is the short of it, other than going to town meetings after documented complaints and the town steps in.

Phantom 05-23-2019 09:01 AM

Taz - I respectfully disagree with only one of your comments ….. I see Patrician as an ideal location (somewhat closer than Braun) that area has vast sandbar area for the Spuds & draws a good sized crowd. Yes, it drops off quickly but again plenty of shoreline to find a spot provided they arrive before 10:00a.

The other unmentioned spot -- and it is where I think they will go often is to the Margate ……….. provided that they can fit under the bridge. Again, they would have to transport early so as to avoid the channel congestion.

All in all -- I like the idea of the Dive on the Lake -- I also can sympathize with the abutters view & their concerns -- yet, the Dive adds new character to the Lake, certainly is a talking piece when taking visitors on a ride, presents a unique place to take visitors periodically ….. but I have to admit (yes I have been aboard a few times) not a place you would hang out at every weekend....unfortunately- seems everyone here has been trying to "sink" it from the onset.

joey2665 05-23-2019 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom (Post 312234)
Taz - I respectfully disagree with only one of your comments ….. I see Patrician as an ideal location (somewhat closer than Braun) that area has vast sandbar area for the Spuds & draws a good sized crowd. Yes, it drops off quickly but again plenty of shoreline to find a spot provided they arrive before 10:00a.

The other unmentioned spot -- and it is where I think they will go often is to the Margate ……….. provided that they can fit under the bridge. Again, they would have to transport early so as to avoid the channel congestion.

All in all -- I like the idea of the Dive on the Lake -- I also can sympathize with the abutters view & their concerns -- yet, the Dive adds new character to the Lake, certainly is a talking piece when taking visitors on a ride, presents a unique place to take visitors periodically ….. but I have to admit (yes I have been aboard a few times) not a place you would hang out at every weekend....unfortunately- seems everyone here has been trying to "sink" it from the onset.

Well said Phantom. I agree with you completely on all accounts

Taz 05-23-2019 09:19 AM

Dive
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom (Post 312234)
Taz - I respectfully disagree with only one of your comments ….. I see Patrician as an ideal location (somewhat closer than Braun) that area has vast sandbar area for the Spuds & draws a good sized crowd. Yes, it drops off quickly but again plenty of shoreline to find a spot provided they arrive before 10:00a.

Everything of course is all speculation. Who knows how it will unfold. At Patrician, you get mostly 1 line up of boats and then a few smaller ones get in behind that 1 line. I'm sure if you count up the boats there compared to Smalls, Braun and the Margate there is much more potential business at those locations than Patrician.

Margate is not unmentioned. I referred to it in an earlier post today and it has been mentioned in other Dive threads previously. I think the Margate is the best spot for the Dive especially now that they are docked at Weirs. Its large, a lot of boats and minimal impact to shore front properties. The challenge will be navigating the channel. Work barges I am told go early morning and late in the day. It would be very difficult for 2 way traffic when the Dive is in the channel.

joey2665 05-23-2019 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taz (Post 312239)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom (Post 312234)
Taz - I respectfully disagree with only one of your comments ….. I see Patrician as an ideal location (somewhat closer than Braun) that area has vast sandbar area for the Spuds & draws a good sized crowd. Yes, it drops off quickly but again plenty of shoreline to find a spot provided they arrive before 10:00a.

Everything of course is all speculation. Who knows how it will unfold. At Patrician, you get mostly 1 line up of boats and then a few smaller ones get in behind that 1 line. I'm sure if you count up the boats there compared to Smalls, Braun and the Margate there is much more potential business at those locations than Patrician.

Margate is not unmentioned. I referred to it in an earlier post today and it has been mentioned in other Dive threads previously. I think the Margate is the best spot for the Dive especially now that they are docked at Weirs. Its large, a lot of boats and minimal impact to shore front properties. The challenge will be navigating the channel. Work barges I am told go early morning and late in the day. It would be very difficult for 2 way traffic when the Dive is in the channel.

That’s exactly what the Dive did last year. They were at the West Alton sand bar by 8 am and stayed till around 10 when the crowd died down.


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Woodsy 05-23-2019 09:40 AM

AC2717...

Weirs Beach does have a separate noise ordinance than the city does.... no amplified music outside after 10:30pm, with the exception being Bike Week.

I don't think noisy patrons at the restaurant at the end of the Pier will qualify as a noise complaint in a zone that is designated commercial resort.

You were totally within your rights to argue with China Bistro... you could hear that thumping bass 1/2 way across the lake!

Woodsy

hilltopper 05-23-2019 09:41 AM

Ibow?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Descant (Post 312142)
It's interesting how generally positive the Dive conversation is on IBOW and how generally negative it is here.
I expect all the docks in the area were established well before the current regulations came into being, so, "grandfathered". Yes, if you do something that creates a (new) hazard to navigation you may have to undo whatever.

What's this IBOW you speak of? Am I missing out on another great forum?


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