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-   -   Are there empty marine patrol boats at significant places? (https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8288)

partsman 08-09-2009 07:38 PM

Are there empty marine patrol boats at significant places?
 
Well here is a new scenario! Time: 3:00 pm Sunday 8/9/09; Location: 800 yards south of Shep Brown's right in the travel lane between Meredith Neck and Bear Island. Situation: running 37 mph south toward Govenors Island, my boat quits.

I am dead in the water in the middle of the travel lane. Boats come by toward the south about 100 feet from me. Boats zoom by to the north toward the end of Bear Island and 3 mile island and beyond, all within 100 -150 feet of me.

The reason, I was broken down and I was right in the travel lane. A Marine Patrol boat at full rest 400 yards from me to the west between me and Bear Island. I could not see any one on the boat, just the big Marine Patrol sign on the side of his old Century.

I knew I had a serious problem, so instead of trying to fix my engine, I called upon the great services of Shep Brown's Boat Basin for a tow. Being in the boat business, I knew they offered great towing if needed and they responded right away.

While waiting for the tow boat, I counted no less than 40 boats that blew by me within 100 fee doing upwards of 30 to 40 mph in both directions. TheMarine Patrol boat in question did not move an inch. It appeared as if he was at anchor.

Between the time I broke down and the time I was hooked up to the tow boat (about 25 minutes) no less than 40 boats broke laws going by me. All the while, this Marine Patrol boat was no more than 400 yards from me.

I guess my questions to this scenario are:

1. Was this boat justat mooring with no one in it to slow down traffic?
2. if so, what does this accomplish?
3. was this boat occupied by a marine patrol officer?
4. if so, was he blind, and did not see my disabled boat?
5. If it was occupied and the Marine Patrol officer saw a disabled boat, why did he not come to its aid (I know that I have dealer plates, but I am still disabled.)
6. Lastly and most importantly to me, does the State park boats near high traffic areas with no one in them just to try to slow traffic? If this is the case there is something wrong with this picture.

This Marine Patrol boat should have immediately came over to see if I had a problem. I was 150 yards from him when my boat shut down. I was drifting toward him with the wind conditions, he should have seen me open my engine hatch to check out my engine. He should have seen me on the cell phone calling for a tow. I know these guys have binoculars, they can track speeding boats at night by simple vectoring at 55 mph, he should have known there was an issue here. Either he was in the cabin taking a nap, or this boat was unoccupied!

George Makris, Owner, M&M Marine Salvage, Meredith, NH

VtSteve 08-09-2009 09:31 PM

I've seen State Police do that on highways in the medium. Obviously, the MP presence didn't change anyone's behavior today. It was thought last year that their mere presence was enough to slow boaters down last year.

Good thing he was there to assist. :rolleye2:

Resident 2B 08-09-2009 09:36 PM

Most importantly, glad to hear that you got back in safely.

Would be interesting to know what the MP vessel was doing. Could they have been using video from the boat to record what is really going on out there?

R2B

Woodsy 08-10-2009 07:37 AM

Partsman...

Your cell phone was obviously working did you CALL MP Headquarters to tell them of your situation?

Woodsy

chmeeee 08-10-2009 08:31 AM

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I would consider the possibility that your perception of distance is a bit skewed. If you were only 150 yards from the MP boat, then you should have been easily able to see whether it was anchored, moored, occupied, etc. Heck, you should have been able to shout over and ask for help.

Secondly, 40 150-foot violations in 25 minutes sounds extremely unlikely. Yes, there are boneheads out there, but in my experience, they are not nearly that common. That tells me that perhaps your perception of 150 feet may be closer to 300 feet or more.

Hope everything is OK with the boat. Did you figure out what the problem was that caused the stall? I'm always worried about that happening.

elchase 08-10-2009 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by partsman (Post 102483)
I am dead in the water in the middle of the travel lane. Boats zoom by to the north toward the end of Bear Island and 3 mile island and beyond, all within 100 -150 feet of me...The Marine Patrol boat in question did not move an inch.

I was on a friend's dock just north of Shep Browns and watched this whole event. We thought you were fishing until they hooked up to tow you in. Another perfect example of why the safe passage law is such a waste of ink. Imagine the patrolman ticketing one of these guys and bringing you into court to have you testify that the "violator" zoomed by you "within 100-150 feet". Do you think the judge is going to uphold the citation? The fact that boaters did violate the law (assuming they did, which your assessment leaves questionable) in plain view of a patrol boat tells you how impossible the law is to obey and enforce. As I've been told, the number of contested and court-upheld citations of the safe passage law since its inception can be counted on two fingers.
That patrol boat might have looked closer to you, but from our vantage he was at least 1000 feet, maybe 1100, down lake. I make that estimate now in view of the Bizer chart and my memory of the landmarks behind you and the patrol boat. Guessing that your estimate of 100-150 feet for the other boats was proportional to your assessment that the patrol boat was 400 feet away, it suggests that the boats passing you might have been more like 200 to 300 feet away, but it can be so hard to judge in that situation...and having a boat pass you going 25-30 (pretty darn fast in a boat) at 200 feet is still pretty close and can still be scary when you are sitting helpless. Even if your "100-150 feet" was accurate, there is not a MP officer in the state that can accurately gauge whether a boat traveling 25 is 160 feet versus 140 feet from another from 1000 feet away.
Luckily, none of these boats were going 90 like a few (who all seem to have gathered on this forum) believe is "prudent", or you would have been recognizing the terror that many of us have felt on this lake in past years. Do you know what it is like to have a boat doing 70-80 pass within 100 feet when you are sitting on a sailfish on a windless day?

Glad you got in safe. Just a bit after you got in we witnessed the event I describe in the "supporters thread" in just about the same spot, and we were glad that patrol boat was on the watch instead of writing useless safe passage tickets or playing Sea Tow. Aside from that silly spectacle, we never saw a boat going more than maybe 50 MPH in the three or four hours we were there. I have to say that this is the best summer for enjoying our wonderful lake since the 80's, and I just hope we don't do anything stupid to go back to the mayhem of the 90's. You'd have really faced an hour of terror if this had happened to you three years ago in the peak of the go-fast be-loud era.

Fishy Cover 08-10-2009 09:26 AM

Wildest part of the lake
 
I had to go to and from Shep Brown's at approx 1PM on Sunday 8/9 and then again at 4PM. It was the wildest I have seen in my 28 years on the lake. The area between Meredith Neck and Bear Island was packed with boats all at planing speed and all completely ignoring the 150 ft rule. Then (1 PM) some cowboy in a yellow and white 50' cigarette style boat who was going approx 40 mph decided to pass everybody on the right (near Black Cove) and then swerved in front of the pack. Everyone reacted by slowing down and coming off plane, so the wakes were enormous and we were all bunched up. Then everyone had to get back on plane, creating more wakes.

In my two round trips I saw at least 40 150' rule violations and probably more. There was no sign of MP although shortly after 4PM I saw the MP RIB patrolling Sally's Gut which was calm and tranquil.

I pity the people on Bear Island who have to go thru this to get back and forth.

Dave R 08-10-2009 09:26 AM

Seriously elchase?
 
In your last post in this thread you insulted partsman, telling him that his fears and frustrations regarding safe passage violations while he was dead in the water, were unfounded because of his questionable assesment (your words) and speed limits. Then, in the same post (same paragraph even!), described how your fears and frustrations regarding safe passage violations, while you were dead in the water, prior to the speed limits, were reasonable.

Resident 2B 08-10-2009 09:41 AM

Trolling
 
I believe we might have a new troll around.

How can you have been on the lake for many years, been unhappy and felt unsafe by the fast and loud boats, have completely stayed out of the speed limit conversations on this forum the last several years when the two bills were being considered, and now be so vocal and safe feeling?

It all adds up to trolling to me.

Just one man's opinion.

R2B

fatlazyless 08-10-2009 10:00 AM

Estimating what equals 150' while driving a boat is not so easy. Most motor boaters are pretty responsible and will stay a lot further away from a kayak, canoe or small sailboat, than from another motorboat. Probably the smaller boats are considered more likely to get swamped so they are given a wider passage with some motor boats slowing down to a no-wake speed when close to kayaks in a confined area. It's just common sense.

I know I don't ride a horse out on Route 93, so why should kayaks and canoes and small sailboats be allowed to go out beyond the spar markers ?

Skip 08-10-2009 10:01 AM

trolls and other stuff...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Resident 2B (Post 102552)
...I believe we might have a new troll around...It all adds up to trolling to me...Just one man's opinion...
R2B

You raise a good point here 2B.

There is some very interesting reading and intelligent debate on both sides of this issue. I truly enjoy reading the thoughts and ideas of some of our long time community members, and some of the new folks that have popped in offer some very interesting perspective.

However, there is and always will be trolls on both sides of this and other controversial issues discussed here. The best bet is for the majority concerned to concentrate on the issue at hand and not get into endless debate with those who they believe are trolling, as this is the goal of the troller.

Just sit back and let Don control the situation, as he has never let us down yet.

It would make it much easier for me to follow the debate if folks moved on after making a point, and not keep repeating the same opinion or story over and over. While there is a lot of good information being made from both sides of the aisle, and even those seeking middle ground, there does seem to be those on the fringes that simply reiterate their positions so often that I think some of us tend to shut them out mentally after the third, forth fifth or more like post in the same or similar threads.

Just some observations....:)

And by no means am I agreeing or disagreeing that the poster or posts in question are the result of trolling....;)

elchase 08-10-2009 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resident 2B (Post 102552)
I believe we might have a new troll around.

Why is one branded a troll if he supports the current laws and those who flaunt the laws are considered mainstream on this forum?
R2B, since the speed limit discussion was opened back up, you have posted 9 times, 8 of those have been in the SL threads and espouse your opposition to the law. Looking at most of the other chronic posters in these threads one sees an even more devout dedication to only the speed limit discussions. Who are the trolls here?

Until recently, this forum had developed an ever-increasing reputation as another GFBL site. Discussions here mirrored those on the offshore boating sites, as if the people of the Lakes Region all shared those same interests and opinions. Anyone who dared express an opinion that did not bash the speed limit or bash those who supported it was "sarah palined", branded a troll, and ganged up on until they were chased away. I'm guessing that the moderator even saw how imbalanced the site had become and how far it had strayed from representing prevailing opinions of the LR locals.
Only recently have those of us who sat quietly back and said "I'm not expressing my opinion there and subjecting myself to that kind of abuse" felt comfortable posting here. I will not be intimidated from expressing my views and observations the way so many have. Unfortunately, many still feel that speaking here is not worth the attacking that it will bring. My friends yesterday were unanimously of the opinion that trying to make non-GFBL points on this forum is {hard}, and will still not be convinced to weigh in here. Hopefully we can change that so that this forum becomes a more accurate barometer of the attitudes of the vast majority of people of this region.
Recall that a series of polls were done by a reputed and independent polling institute. Each one was bashed for not asking the questions correctly, not asking enough people, etc, so the polls were repeated over and over with the questions re-written and numbers increased. Each poll received a higher and higher number of NH residents expressing a desire for a 45/25 speed limit on Lake Winnipesaukee, culminating in almost 90% of NH citizens supporting the current law. No misleading questions, no selective polling, just a very straight question to a very broad audience that had a statistical accuracy of almost 100%. Yet to look at this forum, one would think they got it completely backwards.
It's time we tried to make this forum more reflective of the true flavor of the Lakes Region. Calling those from the vast but oft-silent majority "trolls" in the hope of deflecting attention, and hoping the moderator will banish them, is just not going to work anymore. This is no longer a GFBL site.

Wolfeboro_Baja 08-10-2009 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless (Post 102554)
Estimating what equals 150' while driving a boat is not so easy. Most motor boaters are pretty responsible and will stay a lot further away from a kayak, canoe or small sailboat, than from another motorboat. Probably the smaller boats are considered more likely to get swamped so they are given a wider passage with some motor boats slowing down to a no-wake speed when close to kayaks in a confined area. It's just common sense.

Agreed! I try to give as wide a berth as possible to small boats and especially sailboats. The hard part is when the sailboats are doing their racing or training in the area between Locks Island, Welch Island and Ellacoya; then, it's a challenge to get by without disturbing them but I haven't had any problems yet!


Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless (Post 102554)
I know I don't ride a horse out on Route 93, so why should kayaks and canoes and small sailboats be allowed to go out beyond the spar markers ?

FLL, I'm glad you asked that question. I asked a similar question last year in one of the old speed limit threads and was promptly told by Evenstar that it was her RIGHT to kayak anywhere she wanted (not exactly her words here). I don't have any problem with a kayaker, canoer or anyone for that matter going anywhere they want on the lake (including the Broads) as long as they acknowledge the risks they're taking of travelling in the lake's equivalent of an interstate highway! Apparently, they want to travel anywhere they want without accepting those risks.

Wolfeboro_Baja 08-10-2009 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchase (Post 102562)
This is no longer a GFBL site.

It never was. :rolleye1:

codeman671 08-10-2009 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchase (Post 102562)
Why is one branded a troll if he supports the current laws and those who flaunt the laws are considered mainstream on this forum?

There are plenty of threads set aside for speed limit arguments, this is not it. Not once did the original poster make comment about anyone SPEEDING past. You took this thread and spun your own take on it, turning it into a GFBL/speed bashing. His concern was what the heck MP was doing there, and complaing about safe passage.

It if looks like a troll and smells like a troll... :D

OCDACTIVE 08-10-2009 03:49 PM

codeman... Great post.. thanks for helping to bring this back on topic..

I have a question in regards to the MP which may also explain why they did not come to aid you.

I once had a significant engine problem (my outboard snapped off the back of my boston whaler)

A MP in the area came up because they could see I was in distress. I hooked up a tow line and was about to toss it to him and he said "sorry I am not allowed to tow you"

Apparently they are there to protect and serve except when you need them most...

Anyone else run into this? Anyone know why? I assume they don't want to be the "Towboat US" business but a tow to the nearest dock for safety sake seems reasonable.


Just thinking that he may have seen you but figured he can't tow you and you weren't in immediate danger...

elchase 08-10-2009 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codeman671 (Post 102600)
You took this thread and spun your own take on it, turning it into a GFBL/speed bashing. :D

My first post in this thread came after these;
Quote:

Originally Posted by VtSteve (Post 102496)
Obviously, the MP presence didn't change anyone's behavior today. It was thought last year that their mere presence was enough to slow boaters down last year. :rolleye2:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resident 2B (Post 102497)
Would be interesting to know what the MP vessel was doing. Could they have been using video from the boat to record what is really going on out there? R2B

If you've been following the other postings by these two members around these threads, you know as I do that these postings were clearly intended to instigate and paint the image that the speed limit is not doing anything to improve things on the lake and that what is being witnessed by those of us who appreciate the effects of the speed limit is not what is really happening.

Quote:

Originally Posted by codeman671 (Post 102600)
It if looks like a troll and smells like a troll... :D

These two surely looked and smelled like a trolls to me, interesting that you did not see it that way. I guess we all have different perspectives.
If this was the Offshoreonly forum, I'd agree that my posts could be seen as trolling and did not belong. If this was the Winfabs forum, I'd hope you'd agree the previous posts were trolling and did not belong. But this is supposed to be a "regular joe" site, where people of differing opinions weigh in. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. You guys are just not used to having anyone challenge your propaganda, so anyone that sides with you is simply expressing their opinion, but anyone who disagrees with you is trolling.
Some might say that your post is just trolling in an effort to extend this silly side argument. Did you have anything to say relative to the original post? My post certainly did.

elchase 08-10-2009 05:42 PM

[QUOTE=OCDACTIVE;102612]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kracken (Post 102604)
Nothing good can come from it whether you have conservative or liberal views.

The guy now complaining about political speak is the same guy who said this in another boating thread?
Quote:

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE (Post 95727)
Whether we like it or not we have liberals that have over run our government and they feel more laws the better. No way around it now. Hopefully the citizens smarten up come election year.

Now some clearly facetious statement has you concerned about insulting people of different political persuasions?

How about listening to the advice of this guy?
Quote:

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE (Post 93242)
It seems you guys are the only ones not enjoying the thread. May I suggest just not participating? ... I just think it is everyones right to voice their thoughts whether you agree with them or not.
...By discussing (the SL) is the only way we will know if it is effecting the lakes region. I just don't know what people are trying to hide.:D

Now that someone is pointing out just what "people are trying to hide", you want to start censoring?

And, although it is obviously just a ruse to hide behind political correctness as an excuse to ask the moderator to remove a post that violates your monopoly, you'll see that I have edited it. Do you think there will still be some insulted by my reference to the RNC? Might those "liberals" that you speak of who are "over-running our government" be offended?

elchase 08-10-2009 06:05 PM

Skip,
I've gathered that you are or were some sort of law enforcement officer. The members that you are defending here have post after post where they talk about their lack of adherence to the law of the lake, yet you say nothing. Then you choose an off the cuff comment that clearly could offend nobody {} and decide to climb on the podium to start lecturing; defining a clearly benign statement as "hate speech"? My statement had not an iota of hate in it....I know...I made it. Are you saying that I am a racist? For all you know, I am a man of color. You have no idea what hate speech is if you feel a statement like that one qualifies. This is clearly a diversion. Let's talk about Partsman's complaints, the joke that the safe passage law really is, how much better things have been on the lake these past two summers with speed being watched, and let's stop trying to distract with nonsense about "hate speech".

partsman 08-10-2009 07:30 PM

Are there empty marine patrol boats at significant places? II
 
Thank you all for your responses. I assume this thread was closed due to people going off on tangents. I do not know all of the politics here, I was simply searching for a plausible reason for Marine Patrol not to acknowledge my dilemma.

In this regard I state the following:

my boat was a 26 foot Chapparal deck boat, so waves had little effect. I rode out the wakes of the close boats with ease and everyone arrived safely to shore with no injuries.

The boat fortunately only suffered minor engine repair. I replaced the distributor and coil which were worn out and/or just marginally operational and fired her back up. Thanks to my mechanic, Mark for another great job.

Many thanks to Steve's Taxi getting us back to Meredith Marina from Shep's.
Cheap fares, comfortable rides.

To Woodsy: yes I had my cell phone, no I did not call MP. I was more concentrated on getting my boat out of a travel lane, into safe harbor than to deal with that issue.

To Chmeeee and elchase:
Quote:

A Marine Patrol boat at full rest 400 yards from me to the west between me and Bear Island. I could not see any one on the boat, just the big Marine Patrol sign on the side of his old Century.
(yards not feet)

Quote:

All the while, this Marine Patrol boat was no more than 400 yards from me.
(yards not feet}

That is 1200 feet and my reckoning is pretty good.

In any event, thanks for all of your input. While not getting a full understanding of why this stuff transpires, I simply wanted to make you all aware of my situation. Marine Patrol does what it does and it comes from way above the officer driving the boat. He is just doing what he is directed and instructed to do. If the policy is 'Do not tow' don't bother the disabled boater. Leave him stranded. If he does not have the where-with-all to call a marina or a towing company, then I feel bad for him.Sooner or later some good samaritin will come to his aid, (thank you marine patrol). We all know that the lake is not what it was 30 or 40 years ago.

To all of you who posted to my previous thread, thank you. Your perceptions are appreciated.

In regards to trolls, I don't know what that truly means. I assume I could find references to that in the miles of your previous posts, but I don't have the time or inclination.

In regards to speed limits, I submit the following as a marina owner:

I sell boats; some go fast, some go slow. I would like to continue selling all the boats I own. Some can go faster than the speed limit. If you buy one and are on Winnispeaukke, please be aware that we have a speed limit! If you or any of my current storage customers do not like this, talk to your Representative or Senators. If you buy one that goes only 44 miles per hour, safe boating,; please do not violate the safe passage laws and remember at night, you can only go 25 mph.


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