The Marine Patrol Is Ruining Boating
 

I know I am probably complaining but I believe over the last few years the Marine Patrol is ruining any boating people try to enjoy during the week. Yet on weekends they sit and watch dangerous situations and do nothing because it is so busy.

I consider myself a safe boater to the point I am always pissing people off for slowing down because of the 150 foot rule. I live here full time on the lake and own a boat and a couple watercrafts.

I have been pulled over twice in the last two years during the week when there were no other boats around basically except the Marine Patrol.

I have had them turn around and follow me for no reason other then something to do and see if they can find a reason to ticket me on at least 8 to 10 other ocassions during the week in the last couple years.

It is to the point now I am afriad to go on the water during the week for fear of a ticket. It just isn't fun.

My first time I got pulled over was in a no wake zone. I was idling through and the only boat in site and the Marine Patrol was sitting in the middle of this area. I had my throttle all the way idled down and speedo was reading but doesn't below 5 MPH. The officer yells at me slow down this is a no wake zone. I yell back I can't go any slower under power I am throttled all the way back. He cruises over and says you are making a wake. Yeah well it is dead calm I am pushing water with my hull at any speed. I say ok I will pull it in and out of neutral to get through here. He then says hey what have you got for an exhaust. He sees thru hull sticking out but no noise. I explain that the boat had switchable exhaust but it is disconnected. He says open it up i want to see. I do as he asks. He asks if they are welded shut I say no like a dumb ass they just electrically disconnect from the valves and switch. He starts to go through a safety check and in the middle of this unties me and says we are headed for the rocks. He moves away with all my paperwork and leaves me. I guess I have to fend for myself. I start the boat and pull it out in the middle of the water again. In the mean time he is checking paperwork and there goes several papers flying into the water out of his hand. he makes no attempt to recover them. I would consider that littering. Anyway comes back and hands me a ticket for switchable exhaust. i explain to him it is not hooked up. He says disconnecting it is not permitly disabled. What right did he have to pull me over and check it to start with. There was no probable cause.

Last year it is a little before sunset so I put my lights on, which I rarely do. I am heade home about 2 miles away and I see the blue lights. Agin i am the only boat in sight so it must be me. I pullover and the officer saya your rear light is out. i look up and it is on. He saya it was flashing on and off. Ok let me check it must be a bad bulb or connection. It stays on while he is there and he does a safety check Ok no problem. I take off. I get 1/2 mile closer to home and here he comes again. It is going off on and again. I am going to give you a ticket if you don't fix it. Alright I take it out and check the bulb and connection not a lot I can do. Now it is starting to get dark and I really probably do need it but I could have been home 45 minutes ago if you had let me. I take off and it flashes on and off again. He pulls me over again. I told you I am going to give you a ticket if you don't fix it. I explain it is now dark and I can't see to fix it and have no extra bulb with me. I am only 1.5 miles from home I will fix it tomorrow. He isn't happy. I ask him what he would like me to do? Finaaly he says he will follow me home. That was nice of him but hell I would have been home 1.5 hours ago while it was light if you just let me know my light was flickering. At least he didn't give me a tciket.

Almost everytime I have seen the Marine Patrol during the week they flip it around and follow me for a while. this is almost without exception if I am on the watercraft. Why?

Yesterday I am on the lake with the watercraft and coming into Center Harbor. In front of me are two watercrafts they were together talking but then separate and take off before I reach them. I am following them as a Marine Patrol boat is coming out of Center Harbor. He cruises by all of us gong the other way. But wait after he gets by me he flips it around and follows. The two in front of me slow as they enter through the markers coming into Center Harbor so I am forced to also. They get through and as i am paaing through I see the blue lights. This time he is not after me but them. He passes me within 25 feet at at least 30 MPH through that narrow set of markers to get to them. Thanks for the wake Jackass. So what you had your blue lights on. They might have got away had you had to idle behind me for two more minutes because we were all in the bay. I saw they did nothing wrong except possibly when they took off they may only have been 100 feet apart but at least they gave it an effort.

Sorry that incident yesterday just set me off again this year. Yet on the weekends I have seen jetskis jumping wake within 25 feet of boats and 20 other laws being broken within 200 feet of a Marine Patrol boat and nothing.

Just wonder if anybody else has had the same experiences with the Marine Patrol. They are suppose to be there for our safety not to hassle us. If somebody is doing something wrong pull them over and let them know if it was a willful attempt at breaking the law. Explain it is just for their safety and eductaion. If they do it again sue ticket them.

Now in defense of the Marine Patrol I will say I have had to call them a couple times with questions and once went down in person to have them explain if I needed a stciker on my watercraft to show it was a three person unit and in those cases they were very understanding knowledgable and friendly but these were all the fullltime officers. I think the young summer help with a little authority is giving them a real bad reputation.

Been there too!
 

A couple of years ago I was heading towards Harilla in my 15' center console. Five people (myself, my parents, and two brothers) in the boat (coast guard approved for six), everyone is wearing a life jacket, and we were cruising at about 20 mph. It was the middle of the day, in the middle of the week. Out of nowhere a MP boat races up next to me with his blues flashing. I slow to a stop and he yells at me for violating the 150' rule. I asked him what he was talking about as the only other boat around was the one he was driving. He said I was within 150' of him, I said he was the one who pulled up to me. He responded with something along the lines of "You broke the rules, and I am here to enforce them." Had it not been for my father calling MP headquarters to report the incident as this was going on, I think I would have given me a ticket.

In another incident, it was a Wednesday night heading back from Meredith and in between Sandy Island and Long Island was a stopped MP boat with all their lights off. No anchor lights at all, and had it not been for the moon reflecting off the bow numbers the boats would have collided. As soon as the boats passed the MP officer flipped his navigation lights on and high tailed it out of their. Someone caught the bow numbers of the MP boat, and the incident was reported the next morning. The MP officer had his commercial boat license revoked, and as a result he lost his position as a MP officer.

Just a couple of stories to add to the frustration. They are supposed to be there to protect us, but sometimes they put us in more danger.

Where are you located? i have countless stories like the ones you mentioned

No Duty to Protect
 

Just an FYI (and this should likely be another thread altogether) the marine patrol are likely in the same league as the police in NOT having a duty to protect. They're duty is mostly reactionary. Here's an article from a while ago on this that I think someone may have posted somewhere already: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/po.../28scotus.html

Your not alone...
 

I would consider that littering as well, yet arguing with any type of law enforcement officer IMHO is one of the biggest ways to waste time. They always seem to win.


From your story it appears his cause to initially pull you over was that you were causing wake in a NWZ. Atleast that would be his argument.


Law enforcement officers do not need any warrant or further probable cause to examine something that is in plain view. Do a quick Google search of the "plain view doctrine". Whether or not it is making noise doesn't matter, and judging from his response having the system disabled doesn't matter either. He should have explained to you what you need to do to remedy this and make it legal.

Whatever answer or conclusion you come to after more responses are made the bottom line is it doesn't matter. They do what they do and get away with it for the most part because they can. I agree it's very frustrating, the most you can do is call and complain to MP headquarters about the behavior of any particular Officer if you feel you are being harrased for no reason. I can tell you from experience you are likely to get nowhere. Even if they are wrong most times they can concoct some reason or another why they are right and you lose. Very rarely can you convince a Judge that an Officer was being dishonest or harrasing you for no reason. I am not saying this Officer was wrong or right in his behaviors I am just saying what I feel is most important to remember when dealing with these types of situations, that even when they are very wrong they are always right.

enforcement
 

Coastal Laker, I disagree. The laws and rules established by the state for their waterways are designed with the intent to protect those people recreationally using said waterways. The marine patrol is designed to enforce those laws and rules, and by extension protect those using the lake.

Anytime you put a badge on an ar$$hole, and put them on the water on land, you end up with an ar$$hole with a badge on. It's been a long standing problem from way back, this includes the summer detail cops as well as the MP's.

Since you are such a repeat target, I suggest you find a friend with a camcorder to properly record these incidents. A media person would be awesome if possible. It's too bad that a$$wipes get into these positions, but like any job, they do get in.

Everytime I hear stories like these, I think of the movie Walking Tall.

Many incidents.
 

I and many others have reported abusive incidents with MP officers. Seems to me I have problems with Capt. Boneheads on weekends and the MP officers during the week. I just can't win!

Whenever I am issued a ticket, a phone call to the MP office in Gilford, usually does the trick to avoid paying the fine or court appearance.

One time I had to appear in court. The court date was never sent to me. It's been a few years since.

Report Them!
 

Anytime someone has a problem with a law enforcement officer whether it be Marine Patrol, State Police or local police the absolute best thing to do is make a report in writing to their governing "internal affairs" division. These reports go directly and permanently in their personnel file. If enough of a pattern shows up something will happen. It is absolutely useless to call and complain as most of the time the "good old boy syndrome" will take care of itself and no one will get reprimanded.

Most new officers are "badge heavy". You won't find many seasoned officers that way but there are still some. All you can do is report the ones who abuse the power of the badge in writing.

Dan

Never an incident
 

We make the trip from Fay’s or Glendale to Welch and back on a very regular basis and have done so for 10 years, my father-in-law for 28 years prior to that. There has never had an incident with Marine Patrol in all those 38 years.
If we have a complaint it is that they appear somewhat lax in enforcing the 150’ rule and also lax in going after those who fail to give way to the starboard boat.

Same here
 

In 30+ years of boating on Winni I've yet to be hauled over. The only complaint I can register is that on numerous occasions I've seen an MP boat sit just outside a channel or passage such that to avoid a 150' conflict with either the shore or the MP boat you need to come off plane. A better observation place would eliminate this conflict but still allow the MP to see what's going on. It would seem to be a test but it also creates unnecessary wakes as boats have to come off and go back on plane. As if we don't have enough boat wakes w/o the "test".




I see we're now past the black fly beotching part of the season and into the MP flogging part. Skipped the whole loud MC exhaust session this year it seems. Now someone remind me, is it PWC complaints or inconsiderate wakeboarders next ? I've lost my itinerary.

The more things change....
 

Nope, according to my itinerary you pretty well nailed it on the head! :D

Wait a second!
 

My observations (as a long time lurker before I registered) say the restaraunt forums are next....:D:D:D

When do we get to abusing the Massho...es and flatlanders? :D

The Massho.es part is year round.

While commuting to the island a few weeks back I thought I had invited a visit from the MP. No boats in site. Don't think it was dark enough to require lights but I had mine on because of the dark clouds overhead. I was trying to get back before the rain started and was on plane about 35mph. I went by the MP as the only other boat as far as I could see.

I could not help but think, I set myself up for a potential speeding ticket by going 35 with my lights on. What's the exact rule for when 25mph is the limit? I had gone about a mile before it occurred to me. My contingency plan was to take his picture stopping me with my cell phone so I could bring it to court to show how light it was.

He didn't stop me. What's the rule?

Have you seen this? The MP gave it to me.

BTW I don't think the MP are ruining boating. Like any other law enforcement operation, there are lot of seriously dedicated people working for crappy pay, doing whatever is needed to keep people safe. And yes there are always a couple of meatheads.

There does seem to be a intentional effort recently to use their boats and the 150' rule to either slow traffic or instigate an interaction. I could be imagining it. But a few weeks ago an MP seemed to try and pinch me between himself and some markers, I either had to slow or violate the 150' rule. There was no traffic and no other reason for his move.

Last weekend a MP boat sat at idle in between Belknap point, FL26 and Lockes Island, spaced so that you could not easily pass him without violating the 150' rule to him or to shore. There was no other obvious reason to stop there. He could have moved 200' feet either way and opened up room for boats to pass on plane.

Sorry Not Trying To Bash Marine Patrol
 

Don't get me wrong I know there is a need for Marine Patrol and they are very helpful and good at what they do. I am just frustrated over the last couple years and don't enjoy those late afternoon cruises like I use too.

I am curious if maybe they are being told they need to generate as many tickets as possible to protact theirs jobs and not go through a budget cut in a tough economy.

In the 20 years of boating up here I never had them turn around and follow for no reason until the last couple.

I use to wave to them as I passed them as a friendly justure and thanks for doing a good job. Now I am afraid to wave as it may draw attention to me.

I am not trying to bash them I was just curious if it was just me imagining this during the week or if it really seems worse then it use to be.

Not real cops!!!
 

Most of these MP guys are just frustrated wannabe cops who never could get hired on a REAL police dept!!!!

I can live with all the other situations on the lake. Except this one. The one where the MP boat goes headway speed through the narrows in Moultonboro. This is such a perfect example of how the 150 rule SHOULD be bent sometimes to prevent a traffic jam. I have sat behind a MP boat for 20 min + while idling through there several times. It's nearly impossible to follow the law and ever get up to speed. Even when the lake opens up You are still 150' from the boat behind you. You can NEVER speed up legally because everyone is so tight. I feel they are just there waiting to ticket. Very Frustrating.

That is actually pretty far from the truth...as I know many MPO's. First off, many Marine Patrol Officer's are part time or full time police officer's at other law enforcement agencies. Secondly, Marine Patrol Officer's are sworn police officer's here in the state of New Hampshire. They go through the police academy just like any other law enforcement officer. Just wanted to clear that up for you.

Intern?
 

Well I got a ticket from a young MPO back in 2003, who claims he just graduate from NH Police Academy. The reason he brought that up is he looks awfully young to be an officer. He gave me a ticket for anchoring without my running lights on! (port,starboard lights). I argued that the anchor light (white light) is all I need and he insist he knows the law, even though he has never been on a boat or gone boating before he joined the marine patrol. I ask him if he had taken the USCG boating course or the NH safety boater's course and his reply was. 'NHMP gives all MPO's a course'.
A call to his CO in Glendale took care of the ticket. I heard he quit law enforcement after his stint with the the MP. :rolleye1:

Misinformed
 

I believe this is misinformation and a crazy way to think, especially if you are a boater! They could cuff and stuff you just as fast as a Police Officer. MP officers have all the authority that Police Officers do and go through the same training. The only difference is they are more familiar with and enforce a different area of the law that pertains to water and it's recreational use.

I think I have been stopped by the same MPO. There is no way he was more than 19 years old. Some may be professional law enforcement but this guy was definitely summer help!!! He was pleasant enough but I am not sure how much he knew about boats.

I am quite aware of the legal authority and training of the MP. After being pulled over for a minor infraction a few years back I had to check for myself...because I couldn't believe that the "gentleman" who pulled me over could actually be issued a gun. Thanks though for the info!

I'd like to think you are making my point for me......the best cops I know are the ones who have a wealth of experience dealing with both the public and the perps.......Unless they're from a few cities in NH (ie. Laconia, Concord, Manchester, Nashua) then my guess would be they are extremely good at creating their own excitement!!!!

Just wanted to say, I'm sure that there are good MPO's....officers who look out for the best interests of ALL.....officers that are skilled at defusing a situation rather then compounding it....officers who are helpful, intelligent and a true asset to the Marine Patrol and the people of New Hampshire....I just wish there were MORE of them and less of the ones that we usually run across!!!!

When did the NHMP get the authority to carry guns? I hope that was just a TASER in his holster. If you ever see an MP with a real gun you should report that immediatly.

Bruce
 

I am sure Carl would always obey!!

I have had no problems with them during the week and I DO believe they are there to keep everyone safe.

Though, if it was me blowing by another vessel at 25 feet at nearly 30 mph I am sure that I would get a a ticket. Would they be responsible if someone was injured or a collision occurred because THEY broke the law ??? :confused:

Marine Patrol has been partially armed (on the Coast) since 9-11. This season, the entire force will be armed.

I, too, can think of several instances where I was quite certain that an MP vessel had altered course to provoke an interaction in order to see how I'd respond.

I have a great deal of respect and appreciation for the job the MPOs do to help keep us all safe out there, but they really need to stop doing that kind of thing. It does not help their relations with the boating community even a little bit!

Silver Duck

Hey docs333
 

docs333 I suppose I missed what you were trying to say and I did prove your point for you ;) It happens right? What I was trying to say is I don't think they are neccesarily all the ones who failed miserably to be regular law enforcement officers. I am sure there are many who by choice would rather be MP's than what we refer to normally as "cops". Also if they can't fit the bill to be a "cop" I don't think it's all that easy to become an MP instead. I think those frustrated ones you describe usually become security guards, and yes their failure can certainly reflect in their attitude and work.

Anyone remember the movie National Security? :D A group of security guards are at their "graduation" and the person who is holding the ceremony goes over the items the guards should carry with them at all times. Pepper spray, walkie-talkie's, and some quarters to call the Police if something real bad happens? :laugh:

I will agree with you!! I guess being in the fire/police field and knowing the QUALITY:laugh: of some of the people I am employed with makes me awful cynical!

If you're in the fire/police field you should be supportive, not bad mouthing another agency.

Marine Patrol is not alone in ruining boating...
 

I do not think the Marine Patrol alone is ruining Boating. I do think the government is eroding law abiding citizens the freedom of movement without being watched or herded. This encumbered feeling is becoming pervasive and discerning. Laws for the few are restricting the freedom of all. Oh MY God! I sound like a sound bite from the sixties!!!

The opening Saturday my wife, small 4 legged friend (almost 15 pounds and full of happiness) and I boated to the weirs for our annual bike week stroll. Our dog has a distressed jean jacket full of bike week patches and gets a new one sewed on every year. A bicycle officer stopped us and pronounced “No Dogs Allowed”. After he left another older officer came up to us and met our dog and said we could continue up the street and to the drive in area and that they were trying to curb the “nasty” dogs that fight and ours was fine. He sure smoothed out the attitude from the first officer. We did not see any posted restriction or change in the law but felt bad that we were in conflict with it.

A few years ago we were at the weirs fireworks rafted with a 3 other boats and the MP gave us the note we could not raft there during fireworks. Asked why he got threatening so we complied. Haven’t been back since.

I saw some beautiful go fast boats in Paugus bay this week and can’t do anything but feel for them and the speed limit.

Don’t go to fast, to slow, Selective Rafting Rules, Don’t get within 150 feet entrapment tactics, etc. All the previous stories in this thread are believable and even though the “authorities are worth their weight in gold” in the event of a real problem it is the control over everything that is changing the Live Free of Die motto on our license plates.

Great Thread!

Wow, that was quite a post, No Regrets. I totally agree with you, we will have no freedom at all unless this trend is reversed.

Thanks
 

Wish there was a thank button so I can thank Noregrets. great reply to this thread.
In the Concord Monitor, there was a story about a police officer yelling to a biker at the Weirs, 'So you like little kids'. It was very humiliating to the person. There is a lot of comments to this story that is similar to this thread.
While the majority of law enforcement are great people, there are a few that tarnish this image.
My best friend is one of the CO for Nashua Police Dept. He has a boat and was confronted by an MP about rafting in an arera that is not designated a no rafting zone. I remember the argument got heated and my friend said to the MPO that 'he had no respect for others in law enforcement!'. The MPO called for 'reinforcement' when he realized in the other boats were police officers. The MPO was told during the call to 'let it go' and return to base. You can tell the MPO was P.O.ed. It was pretty shocking event to me.