Why standing up for the Constitution is important
This is what it's come down to:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-off...ry?id=70032966 For those of you that have no problem flushing the Constitution down the toilet, this is a perfect example of why this is a very bad idea. At least the 6 year old girl is smart enough to realize this, unlike the majority of the population that throws it to the wayside. "She's learned that our constitutional rights are something worth standing up for," Mooney said. "She got to witness a violation of civil rights. She got to witness an unlawful order by the police." Where and when did the founding fathers draft anything in the Constitution that said these said provisions can be suspended due to a virus? Look around, this is happening everywhere. Hopefully, once the dust settles and things get back to "normal", court cases will be filed in order to prevent this from happening in the future. Lives and businesses ruined forever, clearly the cure was worse than the disease. Instead of "exploding", the better term would be that it's "blowing up" in the faces of the alarmists. Now the spin comes that the "social distancing" saved 2 million lives. Pathetic. |
Beware of voting restrictions too
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This is a great example of police overreach and idiocy, and I agree it's very dangerous. I also agree with your general point that we should not be risking constitutional rights. Big on this big point, another article was even scarier to me--not a couple of cops who are morons, but a President who appears willing to limit voting at this difficult time. I hope you will join me in saying that our President, Congress, and courts need to do everything they can to make sure everybody can vote this Fall, and that social distancing is not used as an excuse to disenfranchise people. (if you don't like the Times, just Google Wisconsin voting--virtually every outlet reports this the same way) https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/u...gtype=Homepage |
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Constitution rights
The Wisconsin Supreme court ruled on the merits of the case. ***** had nothing to do with it. The case was improperly filed and the Governor wanted to allow people to vote after the close of the polls. This could have been avoided if they postponed the election to a later date. A better read on the subject was in the Wall Street Journal. Not as biased as the times.
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When I vote and the poll worker asks ......... do you have I.D.
I gladly hand it over and present it to them. |
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Soros is pushing for a vote by DROP BOX!
You gotta be shi$$$ng me!😡 |
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He said he knew the park was closed but went there anyway. When asked to provide ID he refused. |
really?
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The site is clearly designed to stir up emotions in a negative way and we fall for it. Look it up yourself. I am not getting into the basic issue of Soros...just the fact that even if a news site says what you want to read, it does not mean it’s true. |
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But you are switching the burden of proof here--you propose a new law to foil election fraud. Please point us to a significant case of election fraud in the US that would have been foiled with voter ID laws. |
FYI New Hampshire offers a Non-Driver Photo Identification just to cover what you are mentioning. There are areas such as medical situations where an ID is required. It could be used for voter ID.
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When I go to the bank and forget my walet.
I get no money :( You don't need to drive to have a photo I.D. Edit: See post above this one. |
Here We Go
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_________________________________ I gauze into my crystal ball and see... Thousands of American citizens dead but not millions. People look at the final numbers and say, "See - it was a hoax. Not nearly as many people died. It wasn't the catastrophe predicted. Fake news." It will remind me of Y2K and how, after tens of thousands of IT workers spend millions of hours combing thru code and fixing problems in the couple of years leading up to 2000, not much went wrong and people looked back and said, "See! It was much ado about nothing." The efforts and preparations lost to them in the moments after that midnight. It will be because of the self-quarantines, the social distancing, the closures of social gathering places and places of business that 3.2 million people did not ultimately die. But cause and effect can be intangible things that only look at the moment. It is a bad foreboding for the future should a truly terrible virus comes along, something akin to Ebola but spreads farther, and people will look back at covid-19 and say, "See! Another hoax." The lessons will having not been learned and we dither... ___________________________ ...and so it begins |
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Let's see the numbers showing a significant number of people with no photo ID. Bet it's minuscule. Furthermore just as an example a non-driver's license photo ID from the state of NH costs a whopping 10 bucks. There is no way I would ever be convinced that somebody is so darn poor they can't afford a $10.00 ID. |
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I googled “Soros drop box voting” The ABC 14 site came up and I read it because it looked legit. How is that cherry picking, unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying. |
It's always been my understanding...
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Something to make you really think were we are at, and how easy as a society we have been to take over. I think of it everyday.................. what we are giving up. Reminds me of this old episode of the twilight zone. where we did not ask or seek out all the answeres to the questions. we just did what they told us because it all sounded so good. <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/U5NWCD7D5n8" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe> <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/dk01eeKMD_I" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe> |
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It's really easy for comfortable people to forget how difficult life is on the bottom of the ladder. Stuff that we take for granted--driver's licenses, IDs, credit cards, bank accounts, etc are shockingly tough for millions in the US (Google hispanics without bank accounts) But you did not answer my question--where are the cases of voter fraud? https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...972_story.html |
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Buy a pack of smokes, where’s your ID?
Buy some beer at the local market, where’s your ID? Cash a check, where’s your ID? So why is there an issue on voting? So "poor people" don't have any vices? |
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Current population of TX 28.30 million. +/-600K can't figure out how to get an ID. Screw 'em if 28,299,400 residents can well I'd say that's close enough and yes in this case 600K is minuscule. I'm betting there are PLENTY of poor people represented in that 28 million. This has nothing to do with a person's financial situation, or the other typical excuses race and gender. |
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You can be required to identify yourself to a police officer that has a reasonable suspicion. However that can be verbal. |
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But 11% is not "minuscule", and we're still waiting for your examples of voter fraud... |
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Of course that's the whole point. You're not interested in whether or not those that are eligible to vote do so and ensure one vote per person is cast. |
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Heritage Foundation? That's rich.
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-wo...s-recent-voter Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
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Also, please do not opine on what I am interested in or not--I have not accused you of wanting to suppress votes, you should not accuse me of being indifferent to stuffing the ballot box. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/03/u...ommission.html |
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The 24th Amendment to the Constitution passed in 1963 says you can not be made to pay ANYTHING to vote. Look it up. |
Threads like these make be wonder what the general demographic of this forum is.
I gotta think that, given the nature of lake involvement (real estate costs, taxes; boats, snowmobiles, and other toys; travel costs, etc.) it begins at upper middle class and moves up? Sorry to throw the OP off, but I just can't help wonder how much of the political discourse is driven by this. Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
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I got no problem with the cost of producing those IDs being taken out of the welfare budget. |
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By requiring an ID there is no suppression of voting, get an ID you're good to go, fail to do so and you can't. That is not suppression, it's simply putting a simple requirement to ensure the law is being followed. By taking the position of not requiring an ID would infer the consequences of doing so are acceptable. |
Guess you have never been poor
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How about “hanging chads” remember that one? If a card is punched, it’s a vote...doesn’t matter if the tiny “chad” is still clinging or not. How about the thousands of “dead people” that vote each election? These are a few I can recall in the past few years...trust me, there are plenty. And by the way, ONE fraudulent vote is TOO MANY. |
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I am where I am because I worked my rear end off. If I can do it anyone can, but most who started out where I did won't because it's to hard. Anyone who has and has done better than me, that's awesome! There is NO excuse for anyone to be poor in this country, I've been in third world countries where those folks who I do have empathy for got nothing and zero opportunity. Here opportunity abounds for those that are willing to do what it takes to succeed. |
The law also states that one must be 18 years of age to vote. How do we confirm that and follow the law without checking identification?
I agree with Maxum non drivers ID’s should be free. Dan |
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Court filings by the Texas Attorney General reveal that funding for a voter fraud ring came from the former head of the Texas Democratic Party in Fort Worth. Leticia Sanchez and three other vote “harvesters” have been indicted for allegedly submitting fraudulent absentee ballot applications and then either intercepting the ballots in mailboxes or improperly “assisting” elderly voters in filling out their ballots. Separately, the Texas attorney general has announced he’s investigating mailers sent to non-citizens by the state Democratic Party asking them to register using applications that already had the box asking about citizenship checked ‘Yes.’” As the Secretary of State told radio host Erick Erickson, there are 75,000 pending voters among a record total of 7 million registered in the state of Georgia. Of these, 9,224 are minors under 18; 2,935 used a fake address; 3,393 are not citizens, and 5,842 were already registered.fake address. Of the remaining applications, 75 percent submitted erroneous Social Security information. Almost a quarter of those “sloppy forms” came from a registration effort by the New Georgia Project, a group founded in 2014 by Stacey Abrams, the Democratic nominee for governor. California was recently forced to admit that it had mistakenly registered almost 25,000 ineligible voters. The state didn’t even realize it was registering noncitizens until a Canadian who is a permanent resident of the U.S. contacted The Los Angeles Times to say he had been improperly registered under the state’s new automatic voter registration system. Michigan lacks a system to keep false citizenship claims from being accepted during voter registration. The group’s preliminary study of the Detroit metro area found at least 1,444 non-citizens have been registered to vote in recent years. A 2012 report by the Pew Center on the States found that more than 1.8 million dead people were registered to vote and 2.75 million people were registered in more than one state. |
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P.S. This post got off topic, so my apologies for veering off. |
Right?
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Another success story...great
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Vote Again and Again...?
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"Hanging chads" are easy to make when you try to punch through several ballots (at once). :eek2: Quote:
Yet we still found voter fraud here in New Hampshire about eight years ago. ...and in the abutting Florida counties of Broward and Palm Beach. One former official was given a sentence that expires just before this November's election. :rolleye1: Just voted in—the brand new votes of convicted felons. :confused: In California, a school board member (make that "former") yelled to her audience, "You don't need papers to vote". How about the woman, voted into a Maryland office, who admitted voting a second time in Florida? Some studies show perhaps hundreds of New Yorkers who vote again in Florida. Who knew that such a big window for Florida voting could result in people voting in two states? Just go to Google, type in voter-fraud and any state, and cases-galore will appear. Sadly...:( Perhaps this year, active social networks will disclose many more cases: https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/11...2644599584.jpg |
I’m thinking more than an ID, people who want to vote should prove that they can pass a basic civics test. Perhaps everyone should be required to pass the test that immigrants must take to obtain citizenship. Lazy, “born to it” citizens should show they have the rational, logical decision-making thought process in order to vote.
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You gotta pass a test
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Every legitimate voice
In the last presidential election, over 70% of eligible voters in NH cast their votes. This was better than the ~60% nationwide. We do well, but should be encouraging the other 30% and making sure every legitimate voice is heard. Nobody ineligible should be voting, but those at high medical risk should not fear exposure to cast their ballot. Mail-in ballots and early voting are a start. Day-of registration is useful, assuming proof of eligibility. Programs to get acceptable ID's to those without them would help. What else is keeping people from the polls?
There are examples of voting fraud in NH and elsewhere, and some of those people rightfully got in trouble. There are many more examples of eligible citizens that couldn't vote for one reason or another, yet nobody was held accountable. That appears to be a bigger problem than fraud. While we should hope the virus doesn't suppress voter participation in November, the state should be preparing a work-around because it might be. |
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I’ve gone thru 3 pages of this thread and have yet to see anyone post any evidence of proven voter fraud. Lots of supposition, fake news, and accusations. All by the aggrieved party in a losing election. The fact is, actual voter fraud is so minimal that it is insignificant relative to the results of an election. The answer is doing what a lot of the posters on this forum write when discussing boating laws & refs - enforce the existing voting laws & regs (I.e. removing dead people from voting lists when they die) before you impose a new law.
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Spend time bettering yourself and improving your situation or spend it in other less beneficial pursuits, it’s your call. God never made anyone successful or anyone poor, you do that yourself. God has nothing to do with the fact that most people lack the drive and discipline to succeed. Grace doesn’t apply. |
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Typical and I just laugh at those that say this to me know why? I am living proof it CAN be done when it is just assumed it cannot be. Want to know why there aren't more like me (not that i consider myself by any means the end all model of success as I'm not) because people like you chastise success and ridicule those that have done well for themselves and are proud of it. Since I have been "there" before, I get it, which is even more repulsive to you because I am not supposed to beat the odds, rather succumb to them. Now who is being arrogant and dare I say condescending. |
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The Voting Rights Act passed in 1964 absolutely outlaws any kind of test to be able to vote. Before that many states had a civic test requirement. Some of them given orally. However it turned out that in many places minorities were unable to pass these test. Even highly educated minorities. We don't need to go back to that kind of discrimination. |
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The flaw in your argument is that you minimize your own strength. People who are successful (such as you) are some combination of smarter, harder working, and luckier than others. The point is to have just a bit of empathy for those without your brains and/or luck. |
Some call us left coasters "liberals," or "progressives:" whatever the label, we definitely have figured out the best way to facilitate elections: VOTE BY MAIL.
We've been doing it, IIRC, since the last century, without any particular problems that I'm aware of. And gee, what do you know: it's virus-proof. |
Voting Fraud
Apart from all the anecdotal sightings of fraud, the real issues where fraud has been proven the numbers as a percentage of all the registered voters is very small. Remember all the buses of MA. voters coming in to NH in 2016? :laugh:
Voter ID: not every state is equal. Look at rural states in the south with predominately black populations with large numbers of citizens over 65. If the states were serious about wanting them to get "voter ID", they would waive the fee for very low income, and provide accessibility to locations where ID can be obtained. The opposite has been shown in many states. Closing of local DMV type offices, while not providing public transportation for the same. It goes on and on. Also remember that in some states (North Dakota) they actually tried to make it harder for native americans to vote by changing the rules. As for cleaning out the voter roles of deceased people, many states just do not want to spend the time or money removing dead people from the roles. None of them have ever shown up to vote! |
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it’s probably also true that shady individuals have assumed their identities in order to steal an extra vote. |
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Everyone is different, some have physical deficiencies, some have mental deficiencies, some will do anything to get ahead, and some will not.
Hard work is one attribute to get ahead but it takes more than just that. You need good health, common sense, mental toughness, and yes, some luck. I know many people that work extremely hard but never get ahead due to no fault of their own. It's not easy, if it was everyone would be self sufficient and we know that will never happen. Some people just need help, some deserve it and some don't. |
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Dan |
There isn't?
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Another example of government overreach and violating the Constitution:
https://news.iheart.com/featured/cor...line5_readmore |
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I would not have a problem with asking voters for id if the was a demonstrable need for it. However there has been NO voter fraud in numbers of any significance. I stand by that statement. Requiring a ID to vote is a solution in search of a problem. |
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If you limit it to paying your bills, then most of us can do it on autopilot, so long as we walk the straight and narrow and make sound choices. But if you meaning making a lot of dough, it's different. To make good money takes more than what you said: it takes a viable plan. Take white collar professionals: they had a plan to embark on a particular career, a career that would likely pay well, and after years of study, sacrifice and applied effort they reach their goal. But the serious money comes to those who plan AND TAKE RISKS, who think outside the box, and who are firm of purpose. Oh, we make our own luck. |
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voter fraud is rampant in California but it's legal and they call it ballot harvesting.
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Why any objection to photo ID?
There is so much discussion about voter fraud and the use of photo IDs. I fail to see why anyone would object to producing a photo ID for the privilege of voting. If you are a U.S. citizen and want to vote, then get a photo ID. I don’t see how anyone can object, thinking it’s unconstitutional. This step won’t entirely eliminate voter fraud, but it should substantially reduce it. The photo ID should be provided at little or no cost to the citizen. JMO.
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https://www.heritage.org/election-in...election-fraud https://thefederalist.com/2018/12/14...teal-election/ common sense says this is a bad idea. Someone shows up at your door "we see you have not mailed in your ballot can we collect it, or help you fill it out?" they do, but if it does not support their candidate it goes in the trash. Lunacy |
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You must have missed this..Gillygirl said a reliable source. Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
Weeks-long Voting, "Ranked" Voting, "Ballot-Harvesting" = Secret Ballot under Attack!
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I've retained no recollection of the rest of your post: Inserted among otherwise well-reasoned thoughts, "There is no voter fraud" stood out in my memory. BTW: . Although "practiced" in other locales (like Hialeah, FL) California is the only state with legalized "ballot-harvesting". Meanwhile, California went from a solid Ronald Reagan state to a neo-Commie nation. A case of, "Willfully-Blind"? :confused: |
success
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SCOTUS Bans Ballot-Harvesting...
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https://youtu.be/sz4UBWbD4P8 |
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So Says!
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Social Emotional Learning
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There are many SEL programs being introduced into our schools/society. Combined with these are programs for "at risk students", ESOL students and those from broken families (as well as many others). Many (most?) of these young people read at 2-3 grade levels (or more?) below what their age might dictate. If you want to blame them for not being as good as you (M!), and not needing any help, go ahead. Not only can most of these people not negotiate their way around a simple employment contract- it's quite probable that they don't know anyone to help them do it. And guess what????.... They are U.S. citizens! Where's the compassion? |
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Those "Close" Elections...
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California, which borders Arizona, doesn't think voter-fraud is a problem. :rolleye1: Has there ever been a "close" election that went "R"? Wisconsin "finds" ballots after the election: https://conservativemedia.com/news/w...arys-campaign/ |
2000 presidential election. Close election went R.
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This speaks volumes on the importance of upholding the Constitution. The Attorney General has started to take notice of violations, especially toward religious groups.
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