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Cobalt R5 poor design
We purchased a new R5 recently and discovered while docking for the first time back at the island that the Bimini top mountings Stick out beyond the rub rail about an inch! This is an absolutely ridiculous design. Makes for tough docking and tying of the boat. It’s actually a safety concern. While backing the boat into our slip in the marina the Bimini bracket caught the dock post and stopped the boat instantly. My wife was catapulted off the swim platform and into the lake. She wasn’t hurt but could have been seriously. I contacted Cobalt and they said “they can build the boat anyway they want” I currently have the coast guard boating safety division looking into it. Cobalt needs to stop building Bimini tops this way before someone gets hurt. I would not recommend buying a cobalt boat.
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Welcome
Welcome to the Forum. Glad nobody was hurt. I guess there's a lesson here.
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Poor design
You're right, not a good idea to be on the swim platform while backing into your slip. I agree, however the platform is huge and basically the only way you can get in without wrecking the boat. If the Bimini were mounted like a normal boat, the boat would just slide along the posts instead of catching. Believe me we won’t do it that way again, she hates cold water fully clothed!
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Cobalt R5
I am sure rattlesnake dn60 realizes being on a swim platform while in gear is not a good boating idea, but, the point of his post was the design of the Bimini fitting and its placement on the boat. I think he is doing absolutely the right thing to contact the Coast Guard and at the very least it may cause Cobalt to sit up and take notice of the situation.
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Design flaws
Thank you camp guy, I plan on pursuing this issue and putting a stop to this ridiculous design.
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Pictures may help
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Thanks Dave |
My neighbor bought a new 24ft Cobalt bowrider last year and it was out of commission for 3 weeks because they couldn't figure out what was wrong with it. 100K boat and he lost 3 weeks in the summer
Meanwhile my 2005 bowrider Larson with a carburetor kept going and going. Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
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Did the dealer offer any remedy? Or is the canvas aftermarket instead of from Cobalt? If the design has changed from 2019 to 2020, is this a tacit statement that something needed to be fixed? There have to be lots of R5's out there. Is the OP's bimini unique for some reason? Quick fix is to hang fenders before docking, or to install fender materials on the home slip. |
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With all the issues I hear about new boats I will stick with my '88. Haven't had a problem since new? Pure luck or quality build. (Formula).
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I have a 26SD with the same design have. Never had an issue with docking nor would I ever slide my boat across poles to dock. The second issue is why was your wife on the swim platform while docking?? This is pure negligence and irresponsibility on your part are you a Bernie Sanders supporter as well??
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I read an article last week about new tractors. It seems that farmers are so unhappy with new tractors and service that they are bidding up the prices of older tractors at the auctions. When one of these new tractors breaks down it takes techs so long to fix them. They can't be without their tractors during planting and harvesting season. At least they can fix the older tractors themselves and get back to work quickly.
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So you are against the first amendment??
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At this point I would suggest that folks read before they post but...
that's a close tie with the suggestion of reading one's own post to determine its legibility prior to hitting "submit reply". It is possible that a reasonable complaint about a boat design can be considered a valid but separate issue from any boating safety concerns. One does not diminish the other. FWIW... My expectation for any boat is that the rub rail is the outer most part of the boat. If the owner wishes to add accessories that protrude beyond that they do so at their own risk. Spring is coming soon! We're all going to make it. |
Cobalt R5 poor design
Thanks 8gv for your defense, let me clarify the docking situation in the marina. On one side you have the dock with 4x4 posts, on the other you have someone else’s boat, approximately 10’ between. Our cobalt has an 8’6” beam, do the math, it’s not easy to back or drive in without bumping or sliding along the posts. This is what a rub rail is for!! I’ve owed a boat on Winnipesaukee for 40 yrs and have been on Rattlsnake for 30. I know a little bit about boats and am absolutely ashamed of myself for not noticing this MAJOR design flaw before purchasing the boat. It only sticks out about an inch but is an inch to much. NOTHING should stick out beyond the rub rail except a windlass or swim platform. Anyone who doesn’t Agee’s knows nothing about boats. As for photos I don’t know how to add a photo to this post, but believe me, I’d love too.
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Cobalt poor design
Just checked out the cobalt 26SD, totally different hull than the R5. The Bimini hardware is probably mounted differently. Believe me if your Bimini was mounted out beyond your rub rail you’d know it and agree with me!
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I attached a stock photo of an R5 for you. I have an R5 also, but I got an arch which does not stick out from the hull. It's got a great pic, but you can see given the nearly vertical surface of the hull above the rub rail that the bimini mounts would definitely stick out a bit.
Maybe the dealer will give you a good trade value and you can build a new R5 with an Arch, I love mine, the top is a little more time consuming to deploy but it's not that bad and I really just left it open most of the time. |
Cobalts poor design
Yup that’s the boat. I could trade it and I would but I’d have to take a major hit. I’d lose $10k on my trade and pay $10k more for the new boat plus pay someone to install an after market Bimini! Probably $20k+ I would say. My trade has 100 hrs on it. I think Cobalt is the one who should take the hit, they designed it. Give me a new boat, same everything with NO top and I’ll take it from there. I’m sure they split a ton of money with the dealers on every boat!
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Ouch....Sounds like MalibuResponse has had enough and is ok losing this customer.
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I agree with your responses but 100% disagree with the comment of there's not a high mark up on new boats or youd be living on the lake? I know quite a few marina owners who live in gorgeous houses on the lake. Your name is Malibu, Malibu brand is like the highest marked up boat brand on the market. I've seen dealers regularly knock 20% off the numbers and still make their money.
In regards to OP.... I agree with your statements of its not the marina or Cobalts problem. |
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I like Cobalts very much, they are gorgeous and well-made, and I can say from experience that the R5 is a pleasure to operate, but I can't imagine a Cobalt bowrider would make a good Rattlesnake Island boat. I think a simple boat with fat rub rails, an outboard engine, and a self-bailing cockpit would be better suiting for island use where weather could trap you in a bowrider and a cold snap could cause freeze damage to your engine late in the season.
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If the problem is related to rough water docking (such that the bimini hardware catches on pilies/posts as the boat rocks side to side), I do not think Cobalt is responsible. Either way, blaming it on the docking skills of the owner, suggesting a new boat as a solution, and telling the owner to contact Cobalt directly, are all indicative of poor customer service skills. Assuming the problem is as described, the dealership should be on the phone with Cobalt, advocating for their customer. |
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If I were the OP, and the OPs description is accurate, I would have been insulted by the suggestion that the problem was attributable to something other than a design oversight/error. Let me ask the following: 1. If I were docking the subject boat in relatively calm conditions, and I “slid in”, gently gliding the rubrail along a vertical piling/post, would the vertical post hit the bimini hardware? 2. If the answer to the above is “yes”, do you believe that the protruding bimini hardware is “properly designed”, and if so, why? In my opinion, if the bimini protrudes beyond the rubrail, there is a reasonably significant design error that could cause injury to persons or property. If the bimini does not protrude beyond the rubrail, then the OP has misstated the facts, and they should be corrected. Please tell us the facts as it relates to your opinion of the bimini and rubrail geometry. Ultimately, if the design is appropriate, I believe you should go to bat for Cobalt, and explain to the forum why the OP has a boat that conforms to industry acceptable standards. If the design is not appropriate, in my opinion, you should have gone to bat for your customer. Regardless of the level of design deficiency, your remedies included operational instruction, a new boat, or the phone number to Cobalt. I’d suggest that another remedy would be to alter the existing bimini, at the expense of your dealership, the manufacturer, the customer, or some combination of the three. You’d probably have a happy customer, even if they had to “chip in” a few bucks. As it stands now, the exclusive Cobalt dealer on Winni is contending with negative posts on a public forum. I’ll be curious as to how this turns out. |
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Do yourself a favor and stop responding in open forum. There is a reason MOST business owners or high level employees of area businesses do not respond on open forum....you can’t win. While many on this forum love to hear the back and forth banter and it makes great entertainment while increasing the visitor log, it is unprofessional on your part. Contact the original poster off line or simply give up on them. Your continued response here is doing you or the business you own or work for no good... Just trying to help... Dan |
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New bimini mounting?
I stopped by the Cobalt display today in Boston. I can see where the side-mounted bimini mount would stick out beyond the rubrail. The 2020 model I saw had moved the mounting bracket to the top of the gunwale. An easy enough fix for any local canvas shop, except, of course, the canvas might now be too big by an inch or so. I'd have to guess that the factory saw a problem and fixed it.
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Cobalt R5 poor design
Not all steps were taken to accommodate the customer, as to question 1 from riviera yes it would hit, and question 2 is no because it hits!
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Cobalt poor Bimini design
More to come soon, see you at the show
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Cobalt poor design
It’s true the dealer suggested a few options and put me in touch with a rep who told me they can build the boat anyway they want, the coast guard safety division and the insurance company’s will decide. When Malibu says he met all my demands he didn’t tell you it was going to cost me $20,000, that’s right, a $10,000 hit on the trade with 100hrs on it and $10,000 out of pocket extra for the replacement boat, same options same color. In the dealer defense they did fix the docking light that didn’t work, half the dash lights that didn’t work, the head compartment light that didn’t and they replaced the shifter because the emergency tether cord kept popping out while under way, that’s what I call quality control! This is Cobalt’s design flaw and they should make it right, either give me a replacement boat or buy it back!
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*I do not know anyone involved in this dispute and I do not own a Cobalt. |
I own an R5 and I can understand the issue. I used to be at Samoset in Gilford and docking that boat in a narrow slip was always a challenge. It was also stated in the condo rules that this is the widest beam allowed so I knew it would be tight. I occasionally caught the bimini on the dock post but learned how to maneuver in and out of this tight spot without hitting.
To call this a "major design flaw" is a little aggressive. To expect a dealer to grant a full refund or a new boat because it doesn't fit in your spot is ludicrous. The buyer knew the spot was tight for such a wide beam. New model years learn from previous model years and it seems the new model year has addressed this issue according to Descant. I'm sure there are many things on the newer models that are better than the previous year. It would be great to trade up every year without cost. With sincere respect to rattlesnake, I think you need a bigger slip or a smaller boat. |
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Many years ago I bought a new Monterey 298SS for $98k from Sheps. The same model (now called the 328SS) years later is $250k+! As far as the lights being out and needing repair, there is usually punch list items that pop up when buying a new boat. I would point the finger at the dealer for not verifying all this stuff worked at delivery. They should be going through the boat before handing it off. I don't want to sound rude, but you are dreaming if you think they are going to just hand you a new boat or your money back after you put 100 hours on it, and have banged it off a few docks. |
First, in response to Malibu's concern, I am not in the boating industry, and I do not know the OP. My comments are only from a long time boat owner.
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You and the dealer should get on the same page. The dealer and/or Cobalt should FIX the problem. That might mean a bit of retrofit on your new boat, but that is a reasonable solution. A new boat for $20K is also a reasonable solution, even if the expense is not palatable to you. Asking for a new boat (or a refund), at no cost to you, is over the top. You bought a new boat. New boats are not perfect, and they depreciate quickly. Hopefully, the dealer will fix your boat, and you can enjoy it for many years to come. I hope this gets resolved to everybody's satisfaction. |
The way I look at it, it’s very bad advertising for Cobalt boats.
I can’t side with the dealer as he loses nothing and I feel bad that the OP is “stuck” with very expensive boat that has, in my opinion, an issue it should not have. |
Fix the Dock...
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Taylor Dock Pro Inflatable Vinyl Dock Wheels 18" Straight: #TAY 1082 |
Thanks riviera and hills country, your right, bad advertising for Colbalt and the dealer. Cobalt needs to make it right and the dealer needs to advocate for me. No boat manufacturer should be building a boat where the Bimini top hardware sticks out beyond the rub rail period! It’s common sense not rocket science! The issue isn’t in the marina so much as it is docking in the wind or wave action. In the marina it’s always calm, out at the island it’s usually windy or wavy or both. And I have NOT bumped the boat or damaged it in anyway YET. Like I said I would not have bought the boat had I noticed this abnormality ahead of time, if your in the market for a new boat don’t buy a cobalt
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I would be astounded if anyone at Cobalt does anything to help you out at this point.
If you really want it fixed, you'd probably be best served to fix it yourself. Is it the rear mount, the front mount or both that are the problem? If it's just the rear, move the mount up to the flat behind the windshield. You can get flush quick-release bimini pole hardware, like Accon 402 that would look at home on a Cobalt. Or you could use nearly flush hardware that only requires two screw holes. Would be pretty cheap either way. That said, the rub rails look like they barely protrude past the hull sides on that model and there's little to protect the very vulnerable pointed aft ends of the hull sides. Might be better off just being more careful and using big fenders. The dock wheel suggestion is a good one. They come in corner and straight versions. I have an 18" corner wheel and love it. Makes backing into my slip a treat. |
Cobalt R5 poor design
11,839 people have read this post! Seems to me cobalt and the dealer made a huge mistake when they decided to ignore my cries for help. I cannot say anything good about cobalt boats except that they look good, don’t be fooled by the bling. They have many design flaws built right in so you’ll need another boat in a few short years. As for my problem, the Bimini hardware that sticks out beyond the rub rail, I fixed it! I SOLD THE BOAT!
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Moving on,,,
Hopeful that now this is behind you you can get back to some fun on the water.
Wishing better luck in your next boat. ATB |
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Buy a Formula....you will never look back. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
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Beautiful. Check out the Formula Boat Electronics Group on Facebook....would love to have you join us. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
Formula Owner
After buying my first Formula, I was hooked! I had an older Sea Ray, and a 4-Winns after. That was back when they were of good quality. I don't consider them quality boats today compared to a Formula.
Even a used Formula is expensive, and what does that tell you? I bought mine in Maryland and had it delivered up here! Worth the trip! I notice an awfully lot of used R5 on the market. What does that tell you? Take a look at the Formula 260 BR, which is comparable to the R5. I'm sure you can find one on the lake that the owner will be happy to show you. |
R5 design flaws
I also own a formula F3LS, have had it 30 years, still floats, still looks great! Does anyone own a new 24’ I’m Going to look closely at those.
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After literally a lifetime of boating, only last year could I afford it, and only because I got a crazy good deal from Paugas Bay Marine. ( P.S. So far, they have been the best marina I have ever dealt with! ) For years I looked at Formulas at the docks and boat shows and was impressed and thought it would be nice, but they were way out of my budget. And even last year we only looked at a Formula because I wanted to see the features and was thinking maybe a used Formula or if not then maybe some mid-level brand that had the key items we were looking for. We just happened to get lucky and cut a great deal completely unexpectedly. I couldnt be more happy with the deal and the boat, but there is no way I could have even afforded even a used Formula 10 years ago. We struggled to cover the costs of our Caravelle back then. I guess my only point is all this is its easy for us to recommend any particular brand, but in the end there is a lot more then good recommendations that goes into the decision about which one to purchase, and sometimes even a few percent more in cost is a deal breaker and people have to find their best overall balance and deal. Boat shopping is a big expense and the purchase is just the beginning. Just saying,,, ;-) |
BTY - and just for the record, our Caravelle Interceptor served us well with no noteworthy problems in 10 years.
Our family thoroughly enjoyed that boat and at the time that was the most expensive boat I had ever owned or could afford at that time. When we traded it in to Paugas Bay, it was still in perfect condition, not a broken thread or split in the seats, no significant fiberglass cracks, no electrical or mechanical problems. I feel certain the next owner will also get a good service life out of what is just a mid-level brand, but of decent quality. Now to be honest it was not at all in the same class of fit and finish and overall quality as our Formula, but I could buy 2 Caravelles for the same cost as the Formula and still have money left over. I can say the exact same thing for my Glastron CVX, I love that boat so much I still have it wrapped up in the yard for restoration when I retire,,, Clearly thats not even comparable to an R5 or a Formula, but it does tell you you dont have to spend a fortune to get a decent boat and have fun, you just need to be an educated consumer and get the best value for the price range you are shopping in. I have no idea how the R5 stacks up against the 270 BR in cost, so that may or may not be a factor, if not, let me say again, like our Caravelle 10 years earlier, we could not be more happy with our Formula today. For us its an over the top luxury item, but we have ZERO buyers remorse. It has exceeded our expectations in every way. |
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The 24' is almost a clone of our 27' so I cannot imagine any difference in quality. And the PBM folks have been so easy and good to deal with. Happy Shopping, at this point I think you know what you are looking for and you will know it when you see it. ATB |
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We got a tour of the Formula 330 and it seems to be beautifully built and well- rigged. |
I like the look of these boats but they don't serve me well. Not a fan of bowriders and it is too dificult for me to enter and exit these boats. I need something which allows getting on and off from somewhere on the side and not from a swim platform. A neighbor on the Cape once soured me on bow riders, taking me into Nantucket Sound while I was sitting in the front when, golly, all of a sudde I was looking up at the wavesm. Since then not for me. I had 12 people on my Whaler with no problem and a few were in the over 200 pound range. 200 Merc outboard. Plenty of power.
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We saw the same boat cruising by us at 30ish knots the next day by Biddeford Pool, so I guess he finally made it to the Saco River. The waves were much smaller on Saturday and even smaller on Sunday, but the fog was thick all the way down the Maine coast, so if he headed home on Sunday, 30ish knots was not really a safe option. We were out in the fog and saw very few boats all day. |
I loke the red color a lot. Maybe it's just me but the color and graphics options on Formulas seem much more diverse compared to something like a Cobalt. As a result you are hard pressed to find 2 Formulas with the exact same color and graphics combo while cruising out on the lake. In contrast a Navy Blue or Black Cobalt is a dime a dozen on Winni. No knock on Cobalts they are beautiful boats. It just seems everyone is driving the same color pallette. They are EVERYWHERE.
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When we bought our last boat Formula was one of the very few who allowed you to choose your own colors/design when you ordered a boat. That was very appealing to us because we like something a little different. I have a feeling that is why Formulas seems more diverse to you Bootkie. It's not just you.
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