Sununu - 1,000 Cases Per Day - Covid-19
 

"“We have 350 cases today. If you ask me where we’ll be in two weeks, I think we’re over a thousand. I think that’s it,” Sununu said."

LINK

Nationwide increase. New Hampshire increase.

The debate continues.

Ha, just Ha

That is all

Sadly, I think he's right. I've been telling myself that everything's fine in Mass, but numbers in the Globe make it clear we are back in March/April, and headed in the wrong direction.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/03/...massachusetts/

We're not back in April, we're wayyyy higher than then.

15% of my students were out today. Got an email an hour ago from a student asking what work she'll need while quarantining these next couple weeks. My reply, "wait—you were in class TODAY."

Five minutes later, I received an email asking to confirm my seating chart for contact tracing. I'm now sitting here wondering a. what I'll need to do for my classes if I need to be out, b. how I deal with things in my family, c. how susceptible I am to Covid complications, d. ad infinitum.

The situation blows all around...and it's only going to get worse in the upcoming weeks.

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Your title is misleading and only meant to be!

Shame on you!

Sorry to read you're on the front lines. My oldest son is a high school teacher in a district with rising numbers. We had dinner a few nights ago, but I think that's going to be it for a while :(

Everyone needs to be taking vitamin D supplements every day. This will help build your immune system so you can fight the virus better. Take them with food because they are fat soluble. It’s a simple thing we can all do.
think, I am sorry that you are in this situation. Believe it or not, schools in Baltimore have not opened yet. I’m not sure they ever will now. Everything is just so strange and different now.

Gilford
 

Gilford schools just shut down today after second covid case...

Dan

Wolfeboro
 

25 cases connected to Calvary church

https://whdh.com/news/nh-health-offi...feboro-church/

Thanksgiving ...???
 

Curious...what’s everyone doing about Thanksgiving? We are invited to our son’s home, which we’re really looking forward to, but there would be 5 of them, 2 of us, our D.I.L’s mother and sister, plus her brother’s family of 3. I am no mathematician but that sounds like 12, with 5 from MA, 2 from NH, 4 from CT, and 1 Floridian. Yikes! I know it’s probably a no brainer, but I don’t want to be the one to cancel. On the other hand, our hosts might be relieved.....they love doing it year after year, but this is different, of course. Sorry for rambling.

Yet zero cases to date linked to any "protest" anywhere across the US

What's the source of this statement?

We were psyched to be hosting our 3 kids and 2 of their SOs. But the kids began to get nervous about each other. I spent a couple of days not wanting to be the one to cancel, then it was sort of forced upon me by a son. We are now having just our daughter, for a grand total of 3. I'm very upset about it.

Nothing on the CDC Charts and findings with where clusters are coming from. Not even a category

I know....that stinks! But...on the other hand, if avoiding this plague can be accomplished by giving up the one day...then it makes perfect sense to do that. Pulling the trigger is hard....having everyone together means a lot to all. Oh my, what to do, what to do.........

I read something in the paper yesterday. It said if you gather for Thanksgiving this year, there’s a good chance it will be your last one. Very sobering.

We have not changed our plans. My mother and father (in their late 70s)host and we will be about 20 immediate family members. We already canceled Easter and Palm Sunday this year and in the end we all feel we do the best we can with precautions and life must go on.

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That’s just a ridiculous statement and scare tactic! With a 99%+ chance of recovering if you get the virus to say this would be your last Thanksgiving if you gather, is just plain uncalled for...

Dan

I will be staying home and enjoying a Maria Callender's Turkey pot pie. :liplick:

Yes. I agree. I’ve been seriously thinking about canceling my paper even though it’s one of the things I love to do most to start my day. I haven’t gone anywhere in months and it doesn’t seem like I will ever be able to get back to normal.
It would be nice if someone could give us some encouraging news for a change.

I’d love to know which newspaper and the source of this information. To me that is a load of nonsense.

Yes there are more positives but mostly mild and asymptotic cases. Notice the hospitals are not being overcrowded like before and the recovery rate is over 99%. I’m sorry at those numbers no one it going to stop our family from getting together for thanksgiving and Christmas.

As I said they already previously scared us into not celebrating Easter and Palm Sunday this year we will do our best but at the same time live our lives. Life is too short no matter what not to celebrate our family.


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Here's a risk calculator that seems well-grounded. Enter your number of people, pick your spot on the map. Flip a coin on the ascertainment bias. Then decide if the risk is worth it to you.

For us, it was the actual risk plus various individuals' stress levels around risk.

https://covid19risk.biosci.gatech.edu/

Pick a spot.... Flip a coin... Make a decision....

Fear Mongering at its finest!

So is this what it’s come down to?....We take an online risk calculator to determine if we are going spend time with our family?

Sad...VERY sad....and not for me!

Dan

That’s the bottom line. Forget the chart, it’s about personal comfort level.

We as a family have decided that we are comfortable with assembling for the holidays and that we take as many precautions as possible.

For others if you are not comfortable then don’t do it as you will not enjoy your family if you are apprehensive about being there to begin with.

To each his own.


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I agree it's very sad. We did not use it in our deliberations, but I thought it might be helpful to those trying to understand the risk.

Or Alaska...
 

You can party-hearty in Vermont!

Yes yes YES!

Can we please start to talk about the recovery rates?!? All along the covid tracking has kept neg results and they far outnumbered the pos. I know, anyone I discussed it with said there just too many false positives to rely on that number.

Well come on now, what are we doing?

In MA we are now;

masked in all public places.
Just had 2 weeks rink closures.
Most schools remote ( ours just went remote for 2 weeks but back in class now).
Restaurants closed at 9:30 pm (the final nail for sure).
10pm curfews
Limits to Tday / Xmas

YET! The numbers are skyrocketing...oh, and baker Keeps touting kids need to be in school. Can’t have Your cake and eat it too. I’m sorry...I don’t see how throwing darts at the wall is science.


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Not to mention Marty Walsh is now saying the workplace is one of the two main reason for the surge. the workplace?? What workplace? Almost all are closed. Also said social gatherings, well that is broad, again what about the protesting for and then celebration groups over the past two weeks. Oh and by the way they don't want to but they will send the police to your house if 911 is called on you by your neighbors for having more than 10 people. Anyone ever hear of the Intolerable Acts?

If you look at the MA dept of Health Chart (attached), being at home is the most risk of catching it.

When is comes to the hockey shutdown and for some reason they got it out for hockey:
When they shut hockey down in their executive order they said 30 clusters creating 107 cases they shut us down on 10/23 and opened hockey back up 11/7- just in youth and men’s league hockey

The chart from the MA dept of health Shows that between 10/11 and 11/7 (mind you hockey was shut down for two out of those three weeks) that youth organized athletics and camps, that means any and every organized sports activity
14 clusters for 41 cases Prior to 10/11 and 24 clusters for 17 cases (going back to the March shutdown)

So here you go
1 - First off how do you have fewer cases than clusters if a cluster is defined by two or more cases from one spot
2 - Total across all sports is 58 cases going back to start of shutdown and including the shutdown, less than the 107 they said in executive order to shut down hockey
3 - where did they get their numbers to justify the hockey shut down and no other sport
4 - the numbers before the shut down were lower than during the shut down period


I was one that was in favor at the beginning, waiting to see the numbers and science and conditions, now I am in the camp of Enough is enough, people should be able to live their lives and make their own risk decisions. Oh and to those that say its for others not you?
Almost half a million people die from smoking every year and about that 25-30,000 are from second hand smoke, yet smoking is legal and you don't have to wear a mask. Same could be said for Alcohol related deaths, and other communicable viruses/diseases.

Usually, at Thanksgiving and Christmas while eating a $2.48 Marie Callender turkey pot pie, http://www.mariecallendersmeals.com/...turkey-pot-pie ....... all totally alone, just me and Marie, for the umpteenth year in a row ..... now ..... too many years ...... I just have a good long cry and then go outside, out to the cold outdoors, and go rake some leaves or shovel some snow ...... but no crying for me this year, not this year, not in 2020.

Because, what really matters is waking up every new morning without a newly formed, overnight minor build-up of phlegm in my lungs ..... which is how it starts.

Good morning ....... yes, I'm still alive! ...... and ...... very happy to be here!

Is definitely better to be lonely and miserable than to suffocate to death, as breathing becomes more difficult with each passing day.

Besides, I would so miss my #1 best girl friend, ever-ever-ever ...... that Marie Callender! ...... :banana: ...... ho-ho-ho!

Can't speak to points 2 and 3 but...
1 - Fewer 'Confirmed' cases than clusters. 'Confirmed' being the operative word here.
4 - Increase in cases always lag by about 2 weeks. If they are seeing numbers that prompt a shut down, the numbers during the shutdown will probably by higher than when the shut down was ordered. In fact, the increased numbers is proof that their concern was justified.

concern was justified on 17 confirmed cases (leading up to the shut down) across the whole state for all youth sports? I can't agree with that, and as far as the confirmed cases lag, yes I do agree that is how it works, but why then do they allow people to move around with a Covid negative result in their hand if it could take up to two weeks for it to show. as the rule is quarantine for 2 weeks or show a negative covid test

All good points. Testing is very problematic.

I agree that the recovery rates are good news. But if your primary metric is deaths, then this is sort of irrelevant. We are now at something like 250K in the US, and climbing--a thousand more every day or so

I work in a school that is open full time. In my community, we had a big spike in cases that were traced back to Halloween parties and some private parties at restaurants/bars. Right now there are about a dozen schools that have gone remote due to cases among students and staff.

The message I sent to my school community here is that everyone needs to be aware that the actions they choose to take over the Thanksgiving break (and anytime, for that matter) can impact others. I am careful and am not too concerned about the virus for me. I also know that if I test positive, my whole school (we are a small school) goes remote, something no one wants. Therefore, I have modified my holiday plans.

We all need to make our own choices, but need to recognize that the choices we make potentially have consequences for others. These will be different for each of us. I don't think we need a "one size fits all" approach and hope that as we weigh our decisions we factor in how what we do could impact others.

Let's not forget those 250k deaths are AFTER all we've done to curb the spread of the virus.

Honestly, now that my students' tests are coming back positive and my tire shop just called to let me know the salesman I worked with last week tested positive, I'm starting to feel like the walls are closing in a bit.

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Most participants were wearing masks in those previous protests. And the recent celebrations in the streets were mostly mask wearers. Be interesting to see what happens after last Saturdays protests of mainly unmasked participants.

Huh? And I have some swampland in Louisiana for sale real cheap.....:rolleye1:

I’m sorry but there were not many masks worn at the protests I had seen and even when they had them they were pulled down because they were yelling and screaming uncontrollably.


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Obviously, we haven’t done enough.

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Maybe Americans will finally "wake up" and respond meaningfully when / if the ICU units in our nation's hospitals fill up to overflowing and can accept no more covid-19 patients.

Images broadcatst on TV in the near future of direly ill patients being denied medical care because the hospitals are overwhelmed will not instill holiday cheer if what I fear may soon happen does indeed come to pass.

It's clear by now that this is not "just a flu:" over a quarter million dead Americans and still counting.

We were once a group of people able to work together for a common purpose, e.g. defeating the Axis in WWII; what happened to us?

What many people are not recognizing through all this is the nurses and doctors that are putting their lives on hold to help all these people who are infected with this desease, many of whom have disregarded all the precautions to slow the spread. It's really not fair to them to disregard the science and do what ever you want to do because you are willing to take the risk. They can't make that choice, they are at risk 24/7 because their job is to help people no matter the risk.

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I do see that the CDC website indicates 249,670 deaths attributed to COVID in the US to date. I also see 11,465,722 total cases in the US to date. And there are 328.2 million people currently living in the US. Which means only 0.07% of the US population will die from COVID.

It's been almost 9 months and most of us have been behaving and doing as we have been directed to do by our government and "experts". And yet here is another surge. And although this surge was expected my guess is the same demographic is being impacted again -- the elderly and those with underlying health issues. So why not insist they stay inside and be protected? The elderly (and some obviously unhealthy people) are still out shopping at Hannaford, WalMart, Lowe's, etc. so they are putting themselves at risk by being out there among potential carriers.

Sorry, but we haven't insisted those at risk stay at home -- and to me that seems to be the best way to protect them.

GB

Masks have been mandated today, per Governor Sununu.

Oof.

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Lets be a little more clear...masks are mandated when social distancing can't be maintained (Edited to add:in outdoor settings)

Dan

"The mandate applies to all indoor public spaces, in addition to outdoor spaces when social distancing cannot be maintained, according to Sununu."

I read that as all the time while inside public spaces and outside only when not physically distant.

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That is correct and the way I understand it. If your outside riding your bike or hiking through the woods you would not need a mask... If walking through the mall of NH you would!

Dan

Masks to slow the Spread
 

Many people have missed the larger point. Our healthcare systems have a limited capacity. Each hospital room requires a certain amount of trained health professions, which are a limited resource. When a hospital is forced to reallocate its human resources to care for very ill covid patients, that means there are no staff left to take care of other emergencies.
The entire plea to slow the spread is to preserve the healthcare system and not burn out the finite healthcare workers.

For those that are selfish enough to ignore the request to wear a mask, just hope you do not come into ill health such as a heart attack or an accident where you need hospital care and you arrive to find they are full and not taking anyone!

Better yet, those who refuse to wear a mask, maintain social distancing and wash / sanitize their hands should "cowboy up" and NOT seek medical care if they contract covid-19.

In for a penny, in for a pound, right?

This is a bizarre and disgusting use of math, and has nothing to do with the local nature of this thread.

250K is like 5X the number of Americans killed in Vietnam, or 60X the number killed on 9/11. But maybe you shrug at these too?

Is my math wrong?

The point is that so few will die from this disease (see the numbers) and yet we are not doing enough to protect the most vulnerable. We slap on a mask and call it good. Those individuals need to be better protected.

Now, because you are a total stranger and have zero affect on my life in any way I will not start a pointless back and forth with you.

GB

Putting this virus into perspective can be helpful. First, gravy boats math is correct but his contention that "only" 250,000 will die needs to be rephrased have died. The projections I'm seeing indicate that by the end of February when the epidemic had been with us for a full year that number is likely to be over 400,000.

By way of comparison, annual US deaths run around: drinking and driving (10,000), opioid abuse (70,000), influenza (10 yr avg around 38,000), and smoking-related (480,000).

I am honestly interested in gravy boat's suggestion the the most vulnerable should be better protected. Thoughts on how that might be done, gravy boat?

update to the chart from last week:
the numbers before the MA shut down went down???? but those were over a month old and should not have changes oh wait

and the shut down period numbers almost all went down, except for the household clusters which rose.

The State's numbers not mine. I am just a citizens watching and doing my own research on the virus cases and fear. The state shut down hockey due to the case info prior to 10/18. 30 clusters for 107 cases. Now clusters across All Organized Athletics/Camps in the state is 30 clusters for 7, yes 7 cases for that period and the clusters went down from 14 to 12 for the 3 week period and the cases went down from 41 to 31

again the definition of a cluster is more than two cases coming from the same spot.

With 3 health care professionals in the family, this point nails the issue. All three are at or approaching burnout, being called in for extra shifts all the time, and getting pretty depressed because there is no end in sight and it's getting worse.

Fully Can understand for sure, and they need a break, and it depends on location. I have three family members in one hospital working ( a large one in the city of Boston) as of this morning they have 5 Covid cases in their Covid Ward.

I am a senior citizen on the younger end of the Covid danger range but do have one of the comorbidities. I would like to push back on the notion that I should just stay home and protect myself. I do need groceries and am perfectly capable of getting out to shop and would like to save the options of costly delivery or burdening neighbors to get them for a time when I could be sick. Do I quit going out for regular doctor, dentist or dermatologist appointments and regular tests that now are hopefully keeping me healthy? I am willing to forego seeing grandchildren and friends in person - Zoom and Facetime will suffice for now. I do wear a mask, social distance and carry hand sanitizer to use, maybe obsessively, so I feel as if I am doing everything I can to still fulfill my needs and be safe. What I need is for YOU to do your part and do the same. I think most realize the necessity and are doing a good job, but it is very disheartening to read of those who have decided to take their chances and don't feel any any responsibility for protecting someone like me. I can't do it alone!

Spot on, and I wish you the best health.

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Your math is correct, it's your insensitivity to preventable death that is vile.

Your either/or thing is also a distraction--one used repeatedly by politicians who have failed to take this seriously enough. Of course we should protect the vulnerable, AND we should all be wearing masks, AND social distancing in general.

It is impossible to fully insulate people from the possibility of contracting Covid-19: unless you live in a cave, grow all your own food, make your own clothes and never come in contact with people you are a target.

Consider for example the plight of our most vulnerable population: those in care facilities due to poor health / advanced age.

They require that others care for them, and it is the caregivers that typically are the weak link as they do not live in a protected environment: many of these workers are fairly uneducated low paid folk living in "the real world."

While a doctor or nurse may have the empathy and fortitude to follow safety procedures when not at work (mask, social distancing, hand cleanliness) that is seemingly not the case for the entry level care givers who work in nursing homes and in home care facilities.

My buddy is an in home care giver, and he describes a revolving door of new entry level employees, and how clueless and lacking in discipline some of them are: it just takes one gaff for a care giver to get infected and then infect the entire facility.

No, to beat this thing we must all work together, difficult though it may be, or in the alternative collectively say "to hell with it, WGAS if they die?" and let the chips fall where they may.

Me, I vote for door number one.

This is not political...
 

Is there someplace one can read the official verbatim mandate? To me it is still ambiguous depending on commas, etc. I have looked at several news sources and can only find the news source’s interpretation. According to some reports if there is social distancing inside you would not need a mask.

I would assume the “real” mandate is written down somewhere.

Thanks in advance.

Here you go.

Attachment 16583

I found out today about someone I know who visited her mother in Rhode Island recently, quarantined when she came back to NH, showed symptoms and tested positive. Just goes to show that someone dear to you can give it to you just as easily as a stranger. Gravy boat is right. We need to be smart about this and beat it. If we don’t learn from the past we are bound to repeat our mistakes.

Thank you.

The mandate would seem to mandate requiring a mask, indoors or out, when you can’t social distance. So walking in a crowd out doors requires a mask if no social distancing as would walking into a restaurant with no distancing. There are a lot of exceptions and stipulations so you really need to read it if it is important to you.

Sununu - 1,000 Cases Per Day - Covid-19
 

Looks same as MA but MA says ‘even where they are able to maintain 6’ of distance from others ‘.

We don’t have to use them when swimming however, if you can find an open pool :(


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www.wmacwv.com is definitely open with its huge 82-84 degree swim and lap pool, and two 104-degree indoor hot tubs, at pool side so's going from pool, and back to hot tub to pool, again, and then to restaurant and bar www.wildcoyotegrill.com upstairs is totally doable ..... and is hot-hot-hot! ...... all the long cold, cold, cold winter ...... long .... :D

And ..... don't forget ....... as Smokey Bear would say, if he were allowed by the government to say this ...... Only You Can Come to Waterville Valley! ...... so's you got to settle for hearing it said by Bruce the Moose! ...... Only You Can Come to Waterville Valley! ...... sayeth ..... Bruce the Moose!

Bruce the Moose also says "35-miles is the driving distance from the big intersection in Meredith via Rt-175, Holderness ..... hut-hut-hut .... (natural moose sounds)"

In addition ..... Bruce the Moose also says the corona virus totally hates all that bromine treated swim pool water ...... yuuuchy-pooh ...... sayeth the corona virus to that humid swim pool/bromine pool and pool room.

The corona virus thrives at the nearby indoor ice arena www.wvicearena.com with its cold dry air enclosed by the hockey boards and plexi-glass surround, but not at the warm and humid swim pool filled with bromine treated water ...... you got that ...... understand!

Risk tolerance
 

It comes down to risk. Using the Georgia Tech risk model, plugging in either Carroll or NH numbers, there is a 1% chance that someone that you spend time with will be contagious. If reported numbers are low (likely), say 10X low, then there is a 10% chance that someone that you meet is contagious. Using statistical methods, a party of five has a 2% chance that one person will be infectious (20% if 10X underreported). In some states, the risk is much higher.

The new state guidelines seem reasonable to me. Several weeks after the holidays, as winter hibernation sets in, the spreading rate should settle down.

I swam competitively for many years. In my double practice days, My hair would tell you chlorine kills all! :)

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Helpful, inexpensive hint: for hand sanitizing, I use a small plastic bottle with a pop off lid that I fill with 70% isopropyl alcohol.

Cheap and effective.

Like Brylcream, "A little dab'll do ya."

Your statement that hospitals are not being overcrowded is inaccurate. They’re seeing record numbers. There are multiple news articles about this.


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Absolutely, and healthcare workers are getting slammed. One state—North Dakota, I think—was letting Covid positive nurses continue to work because they were so shorthanded.

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I’m sorry I disagree. There is no we’re near the overcrowding we had seen back in March and April. My information is direct form the many hospital workers that are friends and clients. There seems to be more control and less panic.

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Perhaps not for those people you know, but nationwide, hospitals are seeing record numbers. As for more control and less panic, I think it’s becoming routine for them, unfortunately.

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Thinking about the statement above - if you know you are at risk you should just be staying home anyway (like many of the elderly I know). Shouldn’t need a mandate to tell them that - all in all we can all be as careful as we can, but those at higher risk really should just be protecting themselves more and allow other aspects of life to just carry on


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I agree there is more control and less panic, at least here in New England but these health care workers are working 24/7 to keep people alive. The least we can do is help the cause by following the advice of the CDC.
My daughter is an RN, sorry but I will take her advice on this subject over yours.

Massachusetts mandate
 

Massachusetts doesn’t want people from Maine or NH unless they have had a negative COVID test within 3 days or they have to quarantine for 14 days. I have been informed that this means the travelers would have to stay in quarantine in MA for 14 days. This cannot be right. How could this be enforced? Can one of you brilliant forum members give their interpretation of this?

I don't think it's enforceable. People from Mass., NY and all the other high risk state people coming to the lake were supposed to quarantine in the spring for two weeks but many came for the weekend and obviously didn't.

Sununu - 1,000 Cases Per Day - Covid-19
 

I think they can do whatever they want to do if they want. This is part of my concern.

Ex. They could easily check the ez pass and send fines out.

I’ve heard key west has a $500 fine for not wearing a mask. Not sure if it’s true.


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This is the problem...
 

If there was something you needed, say your vehicle, and it didn't work, you'd take it upon yourself to get it fixed- no enforceable mandate required.

If following virus protocols make sense to you, no enforceable mandate required.
If they don't make sense to you, well...

Just another take on the divisions that separate the factions of people who do/don't do what it will take to calm all this down.

Seems to me history will view this time as an era of people who, through lack of unity, decimated their own society.

I never said not to take any advice or follow any precautions. People should be diligent and taking care of themselves and others but I think it’s important to remember everybody has different levels of diligence I’m comfortable seeing my family With 20 people others might not be but that our choice everybody has to make their own

Personal hospital experience:

My blood pressure and heart rate went haywire last Sunday. My wife took me to LRGH. From what I could tell there were several other people in the emergency room but it did not look like there was any wait to get in. No one was in the waiting area.They told me they do not have any cardiologists on staff and would send me to Concord Hosptal (a very sad state of affairs). They had to test me for covid before they could send me and it came up negative (GREAT!). I was in a room by my self in Concord (not the ICU or CCU) and I wore a mask when not sleeping. No mask when they checked my vital signs in the middle of the night or during any of the myriad tests and procedures. From what I could tell when they were wheeling around me there was a number of empty rooms. I was there until Tuesday and took numerous trips for procedures. Are they overwhelmed? I can't state definitively. With increased positives. Who knows? Just one person's experience.

I follow your logic and agree, to a point. I just sent out a note to the parents at my school. I did not tell people what they can and cannot do, but tried to make sure everyone understands that actions can have unintended consequences. If as a result of a Thanksgiving gathering a case of covid ends up in school, we have no choice but to go remote; we are very small and keeping all grades and staff apart is not possible. Right now we are one of the few area schools that is open full time; we want to keep it that way. One thing that seems odd to me is the spread is not occurring in schools, but is occurring in bars, restaurants, and gyms, Yet the focus is on closing schools and keeping other things open. Shouldn't we be closing the places where we know spread is occurring and allow schools to stay open? I don't have answers, just some Saturday thoughts.

Students are definitely spreading it through sports and activities, but it's impossible to tell if at school. My school said we'd stay hybrid unless there was proof in-school transmission. The problem is that it's impossible, given the timing/asymptomatic potential/incubation period, to know where the spread actually occurred.

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Sports and activities, absolutely. Many schools here are curtailing sports but sports outside of school are continuing.

The virus cannot be stopped until a vaccine is in place and we all take it.

Until then, the best that can be done is to try to keep it at bay.

The interim question, or course, is "Which is of higher priority: saving lives or saving the economy?"

Catch 22.

Might not be any economy if lives are not saved.

Yes--and your Moultonborough restaurant closure thread is a great example of how this works--one asymptomatic(?) person goes out to dinner on Saturday, and two days latter the restaurant is shut for weeks and two waiters are infected.

#1 for me would be saving lives, #2 would be saving the economy. But I'm sure there are just as many people, maybe more, that would vote the other way around.:(

You really can't say that though. It's like the chicken and the egg. People will die from the virus or die because they can't work because of the virus. Despite what some progressive legislators think, the government can't pay everybody to stay home forever. And if the grocery stores aren't open because the workers are at home, I think most people would have a hard time finding food on their own. If truck drivers and essential workers stay home, how will we live? The society depends on people working beyond financial considerations.

Spot on Tis. If I wanted to live in North Korea, I’d just move there. People need to face reality....sometimes bad things happen to good people.

People won’t die just because they contracted the virus. Heck, many that contract the virus won’t die! There seems to be a sentiment that it’s all or nothing. You either are fine or you die. There is a significant population in the middle that requires intensive medical care and resources in order to survive. Those people eat up valuable resources during their care and there is then a cascade effect on the entire healthcare system when it becomes overwhelmed. There will then be unnecessary and otherwise preventable deaths due to heart attacks, strokes, and other normally treatable and survivable illness and injury. So this isn’t just about people dying from COVID...it’s about people dying because of a healthcare system that is at or beyond capacity. Yes, I’ve read the anecdotal reports of people who sought care at the local hospitals and everything seemed normal. I’ve even spoken to a few healthcare workers from local facilities and heard positive stories. But all healthcare facilities are not created equal nor have all the necessary services for the critically ill. So some of these facilities are not the best litmus test. They can have 50 open beds but if they don’t have invasive cardiology services, good luck surviving your heart attack. Forget the transfer to a hospital that can actually treat you as they are at capacity due to COVID patients....it quickly becomes a slippery slope. Be well.

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You kind of miss the point--staying home and social distancing does not need to be 100%. If everybody just cuts back, transmissions will fall. Grocery stores, trucks, etc, should all roll. But you might want to get your haircut less often, and skip the bars and rock concerts

But it’s not one or the other. It’s a middle ground where people go out for essentials, and hopefully plan well enough so those trips are infrequent, and then stay home or in relatively isolated situations until things settle down. Progressives aren’t asking for everyone to be paid while they stay at home. They’re realistic that some people in the workforce aren’t essential but can’t work from home, so they need a safety net until this blows over. Why are you trying to make this black or white, when life is never like that, Covid or not?

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To start a different vein, my brother who lives in the Lakes Region is the only close contact for assisting my 92-year-old mother in MA. My sister and I are both in FL. He travels every other weekend to assist her, delivering essential groceries to her. What happens if he’s stopped on the way to deliver her groceries? At this point, with the infection rates in most states, does it really make a difference? I will move back to MA to take care of her, but with rates high in 48 states, does it really matter?


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You should tell that to the hundreds of out of staters that were climbing Mt. Major on Saturday.

The upsetting hypocrisy is that most of those people came from a state with higher Covid numbers that has banned NH visitors.

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Because when you drive by the hundreds of cars parked along Rt. 11, most are from our neighboring state.

License plate is a dead give away! ;);)

Dan

It's unfortunate but the only thing you can do is control your own actions. I'm just as tired of staying home as everyone else but I don't want to get sick right now, not with just covid but I don't want to get anything right now. So I will limit my exposure to others as much as possible because that's all I can control and hope others do the same.
We still go out but we try to avoid crowds when ever possible. I've left places if I feel they are too crowded and go back at another time.
I would rather spend as much time at home rather than any time in the hospital.


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Bingo. "Hypocrisy" is the key. It's bad enough having to listen to all this coming from NH "authorities", but when the out of state people start preaching their "holier than thou" compliance protocols while sitting in the State of NH, that's the epitome of hypocrisy.