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-   -   Homeowner's Insurance for Land (https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27443)

hewitt52 09-07-2021 09:36 PM

Homeowner's Insurance for Land
 
Hello,

Are there any requirements for insurance on a lot that does not yet have a home on it? I am obviously going to get something but want to have an idea of what is required.

Also, any recommendations on insurers? The lot is in Moultonborough.

Thank you!

John Mercier 09-07-2021 11:10 PM

Only if the mortgage holder(s) have such requirements.

With the statutes in NH, since I never gave permission to hunt, fish, or hike/etc my property... I never really thought about it.

mswlogo 09-08-2021 12:36 AM

Itís a good idea to have an umbrella policy.
To cover loose ends.

TiltonBB 09-08-2021 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mswlogo (Post 361864)
Itís a good idea to have an umbrella policy.
To cover loose ends.

Many umbrella policies require underlying insurance to meet the low end of the umbrella. That may necessitate a primary policy on the land.

For example: If you have a $1 million umbrella that starts at $500,000 you would need a policy on your other risks (home, vacation home, cars, boats, airplane, jet ski, bungee park:) ) that insured you for the first $500,000. That would give you a total of $1.5 million in coverage.

If you have this type of umbrella and don't insure the other risks that could leave you with a $500,000 gap before coverage kicks in.

BillJohn 09-08-2021 06:33 AM

What I was told
 
I asked the same question years ago and was told as long as it was just land and nothing else there was no liability. If I added something to the land, such as a picnic table then I needed to insure.

Having said that I would double-check with a lawyer because what you do not know can and will hurt you.

swnoel 09-08-2021 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hewitt52 (Post 361861)
Hello,

Are there any requirements for insurance on a lot that does not yet have a home on it? I am obviously going to get something but want to have an idea of what is required.

Also, any recommendations on insurers? The lot is in Moultonborough.

Thank you!

You don't need any insurance unless there are things like abandoned wells that aren't protected, mines, etc. Something that can be a hazard. There are laws in the state that protect you from those that get hurt hunting, fishing, hiking, etc. If you really want to protect yourself, post your land, that way the public has been notified of your intentions.

Seaplane Pilot 09-08-2021 07:07 AM

Check with your current homeowners insurance company. Your policy may already cover any vacant lots that you own.

YOLO 09-08-2021 07:58 AM

Others have given good advice here. If you are not already covered due to having other policies on other homes, it is cheap money to put liability insurance on it just in case even though you may not actually need it. Talk to your agent.

AC2717 09-08-2021 08:20 AM

agent here
two options:
extend liability off of your homeowners policy if your carrier will allow it, most do - but you need to notify them and give address of the land so it can be documented on the policy
better option:
keep it separate and get a vacant land liability policy. Touch more expensive but keeps it separate of your other assets.

just because you do not allow anything to happen on your land or vice versa, does not mean it will not

then depending on your ownership of the land personal or in a LLC/commercially owned can extend your personal umbrella to it or you can purchase a commercial umbrella for it

codeman671 09-08-2021 08:38 AM

When we bought a vacant island lot the coverage extended from our existing primary home policy.

Biggd 09-08-2021 08:38 AM

No matter what, post no trespassing signs!

FlyingScot 09-08-2021 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggd (Post 361884)
No matter what, post no trespassing signs!

Not very friendly, and not very NH

SAB1 09-08-2021 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingScot (Post 361885)
Not very friendly, and not very NH

Agree. An alarming trend up here now. Gets tougher to hunt every year.

Biggd 09-08-2021 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingScot (Post 361885)
Not very friendly, and not very NH

It may not be friendly but it gives you some protection as opposed to nothing.
If everyone would respect others rights and property there would be no need for them, but that's not the case today.
No one wants to be told what they can or can't do, thus the need for insurance! Someone will always be held responsible, $$$$$$.

BroadHopper 09-08-2021 11:02 AM

Laws protecting landowners from trespassers
 
Laws are written so that trespassers are at their own risks! So it has not been a problem in NH. Some a$$hat tried to sue the farm because a family member tripped on an animal hole and tried to sue for medical and 'mental' bills. The court determined the hole was a naturally occurring event and the claim is mute. The poor guy had to pay for all the court-related expenses for his stupidity. Live free and learn.

hemlock 09-08-2021 01:52 PM

agree
 
Yes
In NH if you keep your land open for hunting walking etc then you are more protected against liability than if you post it. The statute says that you do not owe a duty of care to those persons if you do not post.

With that said getting a form of insurance is wise anyway. Let the insurance companies fight it instead of you personally.

hewitt52 09-08-2021 03:06 PM

I appreciate all of the insight. Some additional context. The lot is cleared and has a new septic on it as I will be building in about a year or so.

My primary residence is in Mass so I'm not sure what, if any, might exist for extended coverage from my existing policy.

Any referrals on agents in the area?

Biggd 09-08-2021 03:11 PM

I had 20 acres many years ago that got dumped on, not that a sign would have prevented this. Rogue contractors looking to dump their garbage to avoid paying a dump fee. This was before tree cams were available.
Ya, wonderful, "live free or die" NH contractors?
I guess the live free means dump your crap where ever as long as you don't get caught.:(
If all you have to worry about is hunters then you're good.

Descant 09-08-2021 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroadHopper (Post 361892)
Laws are written so that trespassers are at their own risks! So it has not been a problem in NH. Some a$$hat tried to sue the farm because a family member tripped on an animal hole and tried to sue for medical and 'mental' bills. The court determined the hole was a naturally occurring event and the claim is mute. The poor guy had to pay for all the court-related expenses for his stupidity. Live free and learn.

The guy's lawyer should have told him he had no case. Generally, NH law allows use of private land without liability. The intent is to encourage hiking, hunting, snowmobiling, etc. Without this free protection, we'd lose a high percentage of our outdoor recreation industries and we'd lose the hunter's assistance in herd management.

Mostly, extending liability coverage to second locations, vacant land, is no charge as long as you call the carrier to make the addition. A picnic table or a hunter's stand may or may not make the site vacant. There is a difference between vacant and unoccupied, so you need to know how your carrier approaches this. Same with umbrella policies. Some require the underlying coverage, say auto, or boat, to be in place or the umbrella doesn't kick in at all. Others require that the underlying coverage and the umbrella be with the same company so they have control from the first dollar. No umbrella carrier wants the underlying carrier to say "This is a loser" and just pay the underlying, jeopardizing the million. We usually talk about a $1MM umbrella, but these days, if you own a couple of cars, two homes and a boat, $1MM isn't enough.

John Mercier 09-08-2021 06:06 PM

Not quite. Snowmobiles and OHRV provide landowner liability protection for the designated trails, and require written landowner permission - thus inferring a possible liability - for all property not owned by the rider.

Hunting, fishing, and scouting (some have inferred hiking) is historical and has to do with the harvesting of a public resource that goes back to the Mayflower Compact.

John Mercier 09-08-2021 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hewitt52 (Post 361904)
I appreciate all of the insight. Some additional context. The lot is cleared and has a new septic on it as I will be building in about a year or so.

My primary residence is in Mass so I'm not sure what, if any, might exist for extended coverage from my existing policy.

Any referrals on agents in the area?

Which municipality is the lot in? A local agent would have more insight.

John Mercier 09-08-2021 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hemlock (Post 361902)
Yes
In NH if you keep your land open for hunting walking etc then you are more protected against liability than if you post it. The statute says that you do not owe a duty of care to those persons if you do not post.

With that said getting a form of insurance is wise anyway. Let the insurance companies fight it instead of you personally.

That would be false.

https://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/lan...er-rights.html

John Mercier 09-08-2021 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAB1 (Post 361890)
Agree. An alarming trend up here now. Gets tougher to hunt every year.

Contact the posted landowner and ask for written permission.
Some will turn you down, but others will respect the effort.

For some landowners, the issue of trespass is not legal and moral hunters, they consider that as a mutually beneficial act as it protects their woodlots from being stripped of new young growth by overpopulation.

hewitt52 09-08-2021 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Mercier (Post 361917)
Which municipality is the lot in? A local agent would have more insight.

Moultonborough. .42 acre lot.

John Mercier 09-08-2021 08:27 PM

http://66.228.63.32/us/moultonboroug...urance-agents/

Since many are agents, unless specified, they may deal with several companies.
If they quote a company, just do a little research on rating before purchase.

Insurance is regulated in NH, but all policies tend to have ambiguities as to what is and is not covered... make sure you know what is being covered and what isn't. It seems like a straight liability, but I am not an insurance specialist.

Descant 09-09-2021 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Mercier
Insurance is regulated in NH, but all policies tend to have ambiguities as to what is and is not covered... make sure you know what is being covered and what isn't. It seems like a straight liability, but I am not an insurance specialist.

Where does that come from? Shouldn't this say NOT required?

NH has about 6500 miles of snowmobile trails, much of which is on private land. Each individual rider does not need written permission to be on these designated trails.

Descant 09-09-2021 08:24 AM

Now that we know we're talking about .42 acres, the discussion about hunting snowmobiling etc seems pretty irrelevant. The OP should just call his agent in MA give him the address and be done. No big deal here.

John Mercier 09-09-2021 06:13 PM

Snowmobiling wouldn't be allowed without that new landowner giving their permission, that is state law.

Hunting would require posting against... but unless they have specific conditions, or do something stupid like boobie trapping or charging for use (don't take any gifts) that shouldn't be a problem.

The MA agent most likely wouldn't sell policy to cover land in NH, regulations being what they are.

BroadHopper 09-10-2021 06:21 AM

ATV, snowmobiling use on Private property.
 
John is correct. That is why there are snowmobile clubs. The clubs negotiate a deal with private owners in the use of the lands. Clubs also have rules regarding the use of the land, trails to satisfy litigation requirements, and landowners. Landowners do realize there are bad users and the club will rectify the problem.
There is a major corridor through the farm. The family realizes LRCT is very strict regarding recreational use so the farm is protected under BCT. There are hiking, biking and XC uses on the trails maintained by an incredible group of volunteers.
If the US wasn't such a litigious society to satisfy lawyers' pockets we wouldn't be in the mess we are today.

hewitt52 09-10-2021 02:57 PM

So I spoke with a local agent and straight to my insurance company for my home in Mass. I was told by both that there are requirements and am getting quotes for a Vacant Land Liability policy. My home's carrier said it needed to be a separate policy. Could be because in different states. Who knows. Anyway, wanted to provide an update with info that I got in case anyone in the future has similar questions.

I greatly appreciate everyone's replies. Very helpful!


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