Water driveways
 

Are there such a thing? This past weekend we were three boats anchored in the Varneys, next to the loon nesting area and maybe 50 feet apart,no other boats around until this approximately 24 foot boat came into view heading right for us at maximum wake speed. Name of the boat I think was Pieces with an older couple in it. The captain decided to go right between two of the boats maybe 15 or 20 feet from them,as someone hollered " is the lake big enough for you", then the older women stood up and said "WE LIVE RIGHT THERE" she pointed to a small island 300 yards away so we all figured we must of been in there driveway duh.

Iiiiiiiidiots. Wow that just about takes the cake now doesn't it?

WOW... I am still astonished that things like this surprise me...but this one definately does... However, I know of many times that people who live on shore do not like people anchoring in "THEIR" bay. So they make it as difficult as possilbe for them. I have heard in discussions of people deliberately slowing down to cause maximum wake speed to disrupt rafters.

I remember once rafting in a bay in front of camp belknap. This was years ago. We were 500 yards across the bay from them. The camps sail boats used the bay but it is nice and sheltered and we wouldn't bother them. Well the camp director came out saying it was illegal to be there. At the time I had a 17 ft whaler and he said to me (no lie) it was illegal to be standing in the boat!.. Anyway, we called the MP and they said it was fine to be there.

Just goes to show you that people not only think they have "water driveways" but "bays" that are theirs... :eek:

As I mention in a previous thread
 

Some woman called the MP and told them that I was anchored in front of her property. When the MP showed up, he said I was not breaking any laws but politely ask me to move elsewhere. Some bigwig's wife??? :confused:

A few years ago around dusk a man and woman anchored their sailboat in the cove we're on no more than 150 feet from our dock. We watched the man pour wine for his lady friend and they proceeded to enjoy the quiet of "our" cove. I was sure there was another place they could be and vented to my wife until they finished their wine and went below into the cabin. At this point it was almost dark and I figured they were planning on spending the night. Wrong. I called the marine patrol and told them we had uninvited visitors. When the MP arrived they proceeded to give the sailor a very thorough safety inspection after which they told our "guest" to be on his way. We occasionally get daytime visitors but they usually only stay long enough to enjoy a swim and move on. While I'd like to think its our private cove there's not much we can do about it. Just don't think about spending the night.

I've been both a lakefront resident and for the week boater on Winni. It was easier to be a lakefront owner snob. None of this and none of that. We could ,mind you, just not You :eek::emb:

I'm all for people privacy, and 150' from someone's dock would annoy me. I'd never consider doing it, but many do. So there you have it. Inconsiderate people that don't care about other people's privacy being trampled by inconsiderate people that don't think anyone else has any rights at all. I just wonder how these situations develop?

"Unsafe Passage" Redux...
 

If you think that's bad...
 

Just try kayaking through their back yard and you best not be looking at their "Loon Nesting" area. The lady (we have another name for her that fit her better) was threating to run us down if we didn't leave the area "right now".

There is an interesting story about just how they came by that piece of land. The story goes: the man of the property (we have another name for him as well) had one of his employees search all the back records for a back taxes loopholes on island property. Once they found it... well, "the rest is history" as they say. The family they cheated out that property was one our members at WCYC. I have no personal knowledge of this nefarious deed, just hearsay from one of the founding members. However, if their actions speak for anything, then it must be true.

Huh? I don't understand some of these posts? The water is open to ANYONE. What the heck is maximum wake speed suppose to mean? The speed at which one makes the biggest wake I guess. Loopholes on back taxes? I'm confused what the point is here.

What can a boater do?
 

It is getting so that we can't raft anywhere or anchor anywhere. Public docks are crowded as it is. I just can't understand why we can't anchor a few hundred feet offshore and enjoy the lake? And I mean a few hundred feet where I am not in front of someone's property. I was not in front of the lady's property and I was several hundred feet out. I had to move!

My Grandfather, father and I were waterfront owners on this lake and we didn't have a problem with people rafting or anchoring if they are 200 feet out. We do find Boneheads that are loud and litter very annoying. I don't think boaters in general are annoying.

The biggest problem, I believe, is the lack of public land on Lake Winnipesaukee, where boaters can anchor off the shore.

The way I see it as a waterfront owner, is just the way it is!
IT IS NOT MY WATER!!
It is a view. Views change.
so what if someone steps into it for a while.
And yes, (here we go) Even fishermen quietly floating in front of the house.
Big deal! I just ask how they're biting.
If it's a distraction like drunkedness or littering that's different, but I've only had one instance over the years where a fisherman was casting too close to the g-kids while they were swimming. :look:

Its the me, me, me, property owners!
 

I will probably get some flak for this but....

The lakes and streams of NH including Lake Winnipesaukee (to the high water mark) belong to ALL of the residents of NH.... not just the waterfront property owners. This essentially makes the waters of Lake Winnipesaukee a public park. Free to be used and enjoyed by ALL!

The state has recognized that the waterfront property owners do have a few Littoral Rights that members of the public are not granted, such as docks, moorings, swim areas etc. to facilitate access and use of thier property. For instance Joe Public cannot anchor his boat in such a way as to prevent a property owner from accessing his dock.

The problem is not the boater anchored off the shoreline... he/she is just exercising thier RIGHT (this will be important) to enjoy the public waters. The problem lies with the property owner who feels that they (and they alone) are entitled to dictate the use of the PUBLIC water in front of thier property ( the usual argument is "because they pay ridiculous taxes). The reality is that they have NO RIGHTS (other than the Littoral ones mentioned above) to say anything. If Joe Public want to anchor or fish his boat 10 feet off your shoreline, there isnt anything you can do about it as long as he doesnt impede your access or egress.

It's these same waterfront me, me, me, I, I, I types that have shut down Ames Farm and ruined the most popular spots on the lake with no-rafting zones.

Woodsy

PS: Not all waterfront property owners are like this, in fact I think its the minority.... but its a very LOUD minority!

Thanks, Woodsy!

a lot of folks out there that should read your post 50 times or so until it sinks in.

Enjoy the lake.

But why would someone move elsewhere if they were 150 ft out even if mp asked them? Then again, mp must get pretty tired of the same old calls from the same whiners all the time. :emb:

Woodswalk......you have a heart of gold......do you mind telling us where you live so that we can send a few excess rafters your way?

LOL!- Sounds like you get a regular jamboree. That must be a pain at times.
About nine years ago mp stopped by and asked who gave a fisherman the riot act the previous day. Ended up being my visiting m-in-law visiting from NC while i was at work. she was waterfront down there and I guess that was the common thing.:eek:

If a similar situation where to happen to me, and I was bothered, by it I think I would handle the situation differently. Without a word, I would simply go out to the end of my dock with a a cocktail, a lawn chair, and spotting scope and focus it on them. After a while I'm guessing they would notice and start to feel a little bit uncomfortable and find somewhere else to go where they could get more privacy.

No, it's the me, me, me boaters...
 

As is so often said here, it's really about common sense and common courtesy. The latter seems to be an especially dying art. What you have the right to do and what is the "right" thing to do are not always the same thing. It's usually when someone starts to enforce their "rights" -- real or imagined, landowner or boater -- that tensions rise. And usually it involves a high level of insensitivity to (or lack of empathy for ) the other side's perspective.

Fundamentally, I don't think this is a "class warfare" issue of boaters vs. landowners. There are reasonable and not so reasonable folks out there on both sides -- thankfully not too many of either!

My house is on the water and I have a permanent dock that attracts a lot of fisherman. No problem at all. I also like to fish so go right ahead. The only problem I have is when they land their lures on my canvas and rip it (Has happened many times) One time I actually got hit in the back (didn't hook) cleaning my transom.... If it was one freak occassion I would not even bring it up, but this has happend numerous times.

I used to politely ask them to leave which of course became a heated discussion and just ruins my weekend fun.

So a friend of mine in Virginia with a similar problem (on a river) showed me the best solution which has worked ever since.

Go to Lowes or Home Depot and buy one of those Stampers. You know the pole with a flat iron side to stamp down loose dirt / gravel to level it out for building patio's and such....

Anyway, I have one on the dock. If I see people casting right near the dock or boats I calmly and quietly walk down to the dock pick this stamper up and drop it on the dock. The noise is like a gun shot and the vibrations scare any fish away for a hundred feet or more.

The fisherman usually just give me a nasty look and leave..

:D

OCD,
I don't think those folks are called fishermen.
Another word comes to mind.

Some interesting stuff here
 

Well as always in the forum, we have the land owners, the Marina crowd and the day boaters. And of course a discussion like this always seem to heat up.

Being a land owner I say this,

The water is there for everyone to enjoy...

No I don't have an issue with some or two anchored in front of my place as long as the keep a reasonable distance and don't block me from comming in and out of my dock.

And as a normal rule I have no issues with kayaker and conoes who paddle by at the end of the dock.

Last I don't have issue with those fisherman who scoot along the shore either...

What I do have issue with is the fisherman like OCD discribe who don't do it considerately, and instead hook boat covers, snag rocks and cut the line, leaving it to happen... yes OCD I have been there too....

I also don't like it if some is out infront of my property with their radio so loud that I can here it like I am at a concert.

Bottom line, if people use common sense all is ok..... but they don't and they become inconsiderate, and that is why we have these problems

Many of the anchoring sites have become no rafting zones, not because mean short front owner are claiming rights to the lake in front of there house, but because, there are those that are inconciterate, blasting music and creating havic..... These areas, start out with one or two boaters finding a good spot, and then over time become over crowded because everyone wants to be there...... and at times they block access for land owners,,, I know of one or two prime examples of this.

At anyrate if people use there heads, and when a cove is full don't try and jam there boat in, play music at reasonable levels, there probably wouldn't be as many complaints or restrictions on anchoring and rafting.

This is exactly the problem Rick. How do I politely say "Mind your own business"

If I was that sailboat I wouldn't move one inch when asked by MP. I would just tell them "I'll go when I'm ready to go"

Quit taking form me what you do not own.

I would agree with you to a point. It is illegal to anchor overnight. So if it was past dusk then the MP has every right to have them move on their way.

Of all the posts on this subject....I think LIforrelaxin said it best. Some shore owners are overly touchy and some boaters seem to have a chip on their shoulder about their "right" to go anywhere. As LI said, a little common sense and courtesy would go a long way. Everyone should enjoy the lakes, but imagine being in your back yard with your family and have a carload of strangers unload their food, stereo and toys and proceed to have a party right under your nose.....and that's exactly what a few, but not many rafters do.

Samiam, you are 100% correct.. The only problem is you can't teach common sense.... I think if people stay 150 ft off shore and don't draw attention to themselves then there wouldn't be an issue.

PS. good meeting you a couple of weeks ago, ironic how we bumped into each other.

Take care.

It's not illegal to anchor AT night though. Maybe they were just going below for some private time before they moved on, Maybe the bugs were landing in their wine, my point is if they are not breaking the law do not hassle them and MYOB.

Rick, Look at the pictures in any boating or sailing magazine. This IS what people do with there boats.

If they are making excessive noise, littering etc, by all means call the MP but don't call to be a PIA if you only suspect their intentions are to stay overnight.

Samiam, Courtesy on both sides is needed but remember if you build your house next to a public area that has historically been used by the public for things as outrageous as drinking wine on a sailboat at dusk. You have to live with it.

I have been hassled by a land owner after anchoring maybe 200ft off there property. We just wanted to find a place out of the wind to eat lunch. No music, no swimming, no noise. They had there son drive a remote controlled boat out to us with a note taped to it saying "Go Home" Next time that boat is going to get torpedoed.:liplick:


Maybe we should start calling the local PD and complain about harrasment. "Hi I am at a public park and the people next to me are harrasing me. Can you send a cruiser over to take care of them."

Boaters are attracted to Timber Island as a spot to anchor just because it is an uninhabited, and wooded shoreline. it's a 136 acre island with miles of shoreline and almost zero shoreline residents. No ones there to bother you, and there's no rule against standing on the sandy bottom, as long as you is in the water.

NH could have bought the whole island as a state island area for dirt cheap $1.6mil in 2001, but that's another story.

I will try over there.. I prefer the same thing as the residents. No one to bother and no one to bother me

Yeah, and if Judd Gregg had donated his $800,000 lottery winnings to the State, the State could have bought it for 1/2 price! :laugh:

SS, Where are you?? I need help burying the dead horse. :emb:

Sorry I mean Overnight.. picky picky :D

But I do agree with you.

After LRCT took over the island, someone in a wood boat and another time in a pontoon boat was going around the island telling everyone they can't anchor or raft off the shore. For a while no one would go there. Now I see a number of people anchoring, rafting off Timber Island. I don't see or hear of anyone telling people to leave. I wonder what's up with that?????

The problem lies in what a waterfront property owner might think is reasonable vs. what an anchored boater might think is reasonable. The laws are on the side of the boater.

Unfortunately, those who own waterfront property abut what is essentially a state park. While its very desireable to abut such a beautiful park, it has its downfalls. Its not your "cove" or your "backyard" You have to put up with Joe Public. Joe Public can be annoyingly noisy guy. You knew that going in! If I were the sailboater mentioned in Post #5 I would have politely told the MP to leave me alone...

What I find humorous is the perception that being anchored off the shoreline is somehow inconsiderate?? I dont quite get that. The property line ends at the high water mark... PERIOD! If someone anchors thier boat off your property and proceed to enjoy themselves... lunch, swim, music, etc. Its no different than a group of people playing frisbee in a park. While Joe Public has a RIGHT to enjoy the lake/park as they see fit, the waterfront property owner/park abutter does not have ANY RIGHTS (other than the Littoral rights mentioned above) past thier property line which for the lake is the high water mark!

It is precisely the NIMBY attitude of some waterfront property owners that has resulted in the many no rafting zones... the more no rafting zones we have, the more people have to spread out into other areas of the lake.

I am a considerate boater... I have never anchored in front of someones property and certainly have never caused an annoyance. However I have a serious problem when a property onwer THINKS that he/she has RIGHTS that somehow trump mine.... that is certainly not the case or the law here in NH!

Woodsy

I have been on both sides of this as both a owner of waterfront property where a fisherman is casting in between the docks where there are boats and as a passenger on someones boat anchored off of an island when someone did not like it, eventhough there was no house there.

In both cases I was right, just kidding but that is how it feels at the time.

So you have to share it and be respectfull, just not always easy, because it is my lake!

If I complained to people that I know that do not have a lake house that fisherman were casting at my dock and that is a problem for me, I am pretty sure I would get laughed at, however not cool to damage someones boat/boat cover.

In almost all examples, what comes across over and over is the need for courtesy and common sense.

Many of us, me included, are both landowner and boater. I've seen and experienced both sides. I enjoy a good raft party or anchor spot as much as the next guy. It's one of the reasons I live on the lake. I enjoy talking to the fishermen who float by, or the kyakers who greet me while I'm having my morning coffee. Or greeting others as I row by them.

I do get upset with the ones who feel the need to cast within a foot (or closer!) to my moored, canvas-covered boat, or the ones who think that their music should be enjoyed by everyone within a 3 mile radius.

But, let's forget about the issue of landowner vs boater for a minute. Imagine we are all in the public park (or water as the case may be). You and your family have just set up your picnic and are enjoying a nice sunny day in the park. Enter the Nocommonsense family, who proceed to setup their party less than 5' from where you are enjoying your family. They unload the boom box, let the kids run wild over your blanket, and proceed to ruin your previously enjoyable day.

I'd suggest that the issue is the same in this scenario. It has nothing to do with landowners vs boaters. It's about common sense, courtesy, and respect.

Most landowners and boaters I know enjoy the company and interaction with the others, as long as that respect and common sense prevails. But if you've ruined my picnic by being inconsiderate, I'm going to want to do something about it, whether we're both on private or public land.

just curious about loon sanctuary rules
 

We live near the loon sanctuary in the Varneys and noticed boats rafting right next to the sign stating "Loon Sanctuary Keep Out" during Memorial Day weekend. Not that I care about boats rafting, but we were wondering why so close to our resident loons. Are there any rules about staying away from these areas? At the cape, they close whole sections of beach for the piping plovers during nesting season. It would make me very unhappy if the loons couldn't nest. It also makes me very mad when I see people in power boats or kayaks chasing the loons in the cove to get a closer look.

I believe that is what the sign is doing, keeping people from getting to close to the loons.

:DSounds like we need a sign, warning of the sign that warning of the loon nesting area;), again definitely need a tongue in cheek smiley..:D

I am just being smart, but it would be nice if folks would not bother the wildlife and just observe from a distance. Reminds me of going to the great north woods and witnessing folks chasing moose with their huge spot lights from 50 feet away. Very discouraging to see.

I live in a pretty popular rafting cove. Ask me how many times I have seen folks swim to my property with their pets and let them (or try to let them) do their business on my frontage. I have had several nasty encounters with folks. I also love the trash that washes up on my shore as well from the inconsiderate. It goes both ways.

Two years ago, there were a few bass boaters that just loved to maneuver their crafts via trolling motors between and around my dock. Not a problem for me, until I watched him not only move inside and in front of my boat, but when leaving, hit it :eek:I was not far away so I ran down to see what happened. Not a mark thankfully. Not a word from him either as he moved slowly right to the other side.

Being so arrogant, I felt the need to comment. dumba$$
But "most" fishermen I know couldn't give a rat's behind about boats or the water, they only endure the boat ride to get fish.

Living on the water has many drawbacks, and obvious benefits for those that not only appreciate them, but crave them. For me it was always being on the water, not just looking at it. The cruising, exploring, some diving, just fun. There are definite advantages to being on a huge lake that isn't congested. I look forward to anchoring on the beaches, heading into town or across to my favorite restaurant & hangout. It's much harder to enjoy things than it used to be, but boaters persevere.

Life is a finite pleasure, so they say. Some need to get the poles out of their arses and lighten up, other need to realize that they act like spoiled kids and need to grow up. I'm afraid that there's so many on each side, that the lake will not return to a happy place in my lifetime.

As the Monty Python folks put it, "Society is to blame."

I think its reasonable for a property owner to expect some privacy. While the law may allow a boater to anchor off my property I have to ask why. There are lots of places on the lake that are more private. I would think a boater would want his privacy just as I want mine.

Well said, Rick. I think that sums it up very well! I hate sitting on the beach and staring at someone who is close. And I can't imagine why they would want to be so close to stare at me!