Irritating loud boat
 

Tonight while sitting on our friends dock in the N.E. area of the lake(Northern W'boro,T,boro, Melvin Village area) there was a boat of about 25', obeying the speed limit, yet irritating loud and obnoxious. Ironically there was quite a bit of other boat traffic through the area...bow riders, pontoons, etc. where it was not a problem at all...fun and entertaining to watch, really adding to the fun and interest to the lake, and disturbing no one. Everyone commented on the juxtaposition of how one boat, compared to the many others, can truly be so irritating and disruptive to the peace and tranquility of the lake. Why do some people feel they have to call so much attention to their boating activities? This to us was an example of how a few bad apples tend to spoil boating for the majority and why new laws have been necessary.

Life's to short to worry about the little things. Don't enjoy that 1 minute of time? Go inside and fix another cocktail, when you come back they will be gone. Easy solutions !!

I know, have you heard those nasty motorcycles circling the lake? Sounds just like money in the till (Pink Floyd anyone)!

For the next week, I will hear more motorcycle noise than boat noise at my place near Weirs Beach. I realize there is money along with the noise coming from our vacationing guests and I also realize I do not own the roads. Do I like it: not really, but do I accept it as part of the local color: yes.

If I was sitting on a dock and a boat's noise was too much for me to handle, I would go inside for a few minutes. If this was a chronic problem, I would move to a quieter lake or pond. The last thing I would do is whine about it on a public forum.

Do I smell (or hear) another useless law coming? :rolleye2:

R2B

Boat noise
 

Living on the Broads since the 50's. Boat noise have always been part of the lake color. Have you heard the old 'Miss Winnipesaukee' boats. Their distinguish loud rumble is music in a lot of folks ears. Especially the 'MS Mt Washington' old motor. Everybody misses it. =(

the classic sounds of the old Chryslers in Wooden boats such as the Hackercrafts and Higgins to me is part of Lake Winnipesaukee.

Gone are the days............................. :(

We have noise laws for loud boats and loud bikes, we just don't really enforce them that well.

Maybe that's the strategy the MP will take on other laws they don't feel are needed.

Just to add, I'm talking about really over the top boats and bikes, the normally loud guys should police the real boneheads.

The "UN-Spiritual" Thread...
 

1) It's the tragic—yet readily foreseen—headlines that lead to new laws; however, other laws are made when some have no sense of The Golden Rule. :rolleye1:

2) Winnipesaukee's classic Lakers have been "grandfathered" to their loud exhaust—by law: It's the "bad apples" who think they have some greater entitlement to an even louder exhaust noise. :mad:

I am often asked that question.

My answer has two parts:

1) Since they're seldom seen far from an ocean's shore, it must have something to do with the "It's-All-About-Me" generation.

2) It's a cult: I call it the The Mutual Admiration Club. :rolleye2:

3) Conspicuous Consumption:

While many of us putt around on a modest amount of fuel, some have to burn off the diminishing commodity of fossil fuel at the rate of 1 gallon per minute. :eek2:

(OK, that's three parts).

Having said that, I'd like to congratulate one boater who "motored gently" in a boat whose only complaint from me is that his paint scheme was too loud. ;)

(I've forgotten the boat's exact name, but it ran something like, "Doin' It Right").

It used to be the large loud boats would speed by at night and quickly be gone. Then some folks fought to slow them down, so you can enjoy their sounds longer.

Sounds like money to me...

Isn't that what the economy needs up here... more customers & their money.

Enjoy the summer...

I hear more fireworks coming from that area than anywhere on the lake.(scares my dogs to death) but we get through it.

Exactly, which is why these "useless laws" become necessary. And fortunately, the "ka-ching" factor does carry weight. Many businesses felt another law was pro economy.

SOTD, please don't quote me out of context. If you re-read my post, you will see that is states exactly the opposite of your contention. You are entitled to your opinion, you are not entitled to misrepresent mine.

APS, don't you think we should keep religion out of lawmaking? I thought your old screenname was just a joke. It's a big world, isn't there enough room for all of us?

I really dislike loud vehicles, but the loud AND slow ones are, by far, the worst. I live on a short road that's entirely steep hill and get to hear open pipe cruiser-style motorcycles and Honda Civics with loud exhausts climb the hill all Summer long. They take forever and usually shift 2 or more times on the way. The occasional sport bikes and true high-performance cars (that I hear) tend to go by much faster and generally can't even get to the top of first gear before they run out of road, so they make less noise overall.

Give it up
 

Talk about "one-trick ponies". You guys just can't let a thread on any topic go two posts without trying to turn it into an anti-SL bash and getting it shut down.
The SL passed. Now learn to deal with it. "Safe" boaters would recognize and respect the law and obey it without trying to punish society for wanting it.

I don't know about Bad Apples SOTD, but I usually don't love the extremely loud boats either. Not a huge fan of loud cars, boats or bikes either. Doesn't bother me to the point of anxiety, but sometimes it's irritating, especially on peaceful nights or mornings. I'm always in support of the noise limits, especially targeting dry pipes and the like. Always some give and take here and there.

Hi Bud, I think you may have been quoting some of those folks out of context.

Thanks for the nice PM, it made for enjoyable reading:)

Hope to see you on the lake soon.

Agreed
 

Steve,

Well stated- thanks!

The Answer To Your Question Is This Post
 

I do love the sweet sound of horsepower whether it be in the water or on the road. While you love the quiet others appreciate the tone of horsepower.

We all have our hobbies and a sweet sounding vehicle to a motorhead is just as exciting as a set of Ping golf clubs to a golfer.

Loud Boats (Not Exhaust)
 

First hand memories from last September. You don't need loud pipes to be Obnoxious. :D NB

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ead.php?t=8645

Was it a white and red baja?

What about loud car stereo's at lights with the bass shaking everything around? Another decibel peeve!

Video, earmuffs may be required...
 

Friends of myFamily won the fastest boat at this competition, 2009.

http://www.coxgp.com/2009/11/super-b...ionship-video/



Terry
___________________________

www.winnipesaukee.com

I think your logic may be a bit flawed there. Had the boat been going twice as fast then the noise would have carried until the boat was much further away...a net zero sum equation. No worry though...we didn't let it spoil our evening...we just went out back and hopped into the Prius and turned up NPR real loud until the boat passed.:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Unbelievable. You are still crying about any boat that does not conform to your selfish standards. I find YOUR post irritating and disruptive. To actually come on here and start a thread like this makes me laugh. Hopefully, Don will delete it and put an end to your excessive whining.

Wow!
 

4 Billion users thanks Vitabeane for his post! That's a lot of votes!

I wonder if that is the record???? :confused:

Vitabeane has quite a following, inside the Lakes Region and well, well beyond. ;)

Perhaps 10% of "Vitabeane Nation" could move to NH and help address the narrow-minded members of the NH State Government. 429,000,000 new residents will help fix the RE market as well!

Numbers count! :liplick:

R2B

People on Winni are standing up and taking back control of the lake from the selfish few. Better get used to it.

My post was quoted and little else. Today I have started legal action to have those 4.3 billion thanks credited to my account :laugh:

Who are the selfish few that control the lake? Are they like a street gang?

That's where you are wrong. No one group has control of the lake. Everybody has the same rights and use of the lake. YOU get used to it.

Right on PM203
 

Turtle,

There are RSAs that dictate noise levels for motorized vehicles, so if the boat, bike or snowmobile that offends you is not exceeding those levels, then you will have to get used to it.

If they exceed the mandated noise levels, then the owners are at risk for a higher level of scrutiny, testing and ticketing.

Couldnt agree with you more.

OK, seriously….

That is funny, I don’t care what “side” you are on, that’s good stuff right there.

irritating loud boat
 

I personally, enjoy the sounds of summer and a loud boat once in a while is a treat. Love the speed they portray.

I couldn't agree more! And it's not so much the speed they portray, I love the graphics on some of the boats and the sound of their exhaust! It's music to my ears, much like the boat in this YouTube video; I think I've seen this boat, or one very similar to it, at the Wolfeboro Vintage Race Boat Regatta! Talk about a sweet sound, you should hear this engine when it's opened up!! :) :)

SOTD, No new law was required to handle this.... There has been a noise ordinance on the books for many year now. Ask BH, and some of the others that have had to deal with it. If you really feel a boat was extraordinary loud. Don't just fuss about it. Pull out some binoculars get a good description of the boat and as many of the bow numbers as you can and call it in. The Marine Patrol will be more then happy to talk to you. And if they have enough information to identify the boat they will keep an eye out for it.

I myself had an incident this weekend. I knew where the boats came from and basically who was behind the wheel. As two boats left a NWZ more then early and one passed right by me less then 50 ft coming onto plane. The Marine Patrol was not in a position to see the situation, however was not to far away. I took a few moments, and talked to the officer, who was more then glad to listen. Took what information I had, and said she would pass the word around. All I will say about the incident, is that it involved a marina, and two workers from the Marina, in two separate boats. I will also say this, along with talking to the MP, who said they would keep an eye on the Marina for a few weeks as best they could. I also called and talked to the Owner of the Marina. There was no bashing, no name calling, The frustration was understood, the owner listened, apologized and completely did what was necessary to resolve the situation.

Bottom line is this, Don't just post about things. If you think a law is being violated then pass along enough information to the MP to do something about it. Even better yet, if you know who the offenders are go to the source. For me it worked out for the best. I got to meet a wonderful MP officer who listened, and talk to a business owner, who both took the time to deal with a situation, and do what was necessary to resolve it properly.

To the Marine Patrol officer I talk too, Hopefully you realize who you are, thank-you....I you should read this.

To the Marina, owner if you read this, likewise I hope you realize who you are.... your business went up several notches in my book for your professionalism.

When exactly did this country turn into a bunch of woosies?

That is too loud.
That is too big.
That is not fair.
That is unhealthy.
That is wasteful.
That is inappropriate.

That offends me because…blah, blah, blah. Enough already!!!

What is beauty to one may be butt ugly to another. It seems like the majority (or maybe it’s just the most vocal) of people are offended by something and what societal change to remedy it.

A lone kayak crossing the Broads at sunrise may be beautiful to one person and yet another person may be offended by it. Maybe they are offended because it is made from petroleum, or perhaps the kayak is red and that is the color of the truck that ran over their great grandmother on Flag Day 6 years ago.

Bottom line here is: Everybody gets offended by something or somebody, everyday.

If you don’t like the channel…change it.
If something is unhealthy…don’t do it.
If something is to loud…go sit in your Prius and crank NPR (thanks Sunset)
If something is unfair…well get use to it, life isn’t fair.

Maybe its the greatest generation spoiled brats.
 

Maybe its the greatest generation spoiled brats or even worse there kids kids.. :laugh:

If it's such a sweet sound, then why does the guy at the controls have ear muffs on?

Just curious thats all. :)

I think the answer to your question is quite obvious. :)

My .02
 

I think noise is really all relative.....

Up in the section of the lake where he was hanging out its usually very quiet... even more so towards evening hours. the AMBIENT NOISE LEVEL (ANL) is usually very low, especially this time of year (early in the boating season). So a boat with thru hull exhaust is def going to stand out even if he is perfectly legal!

This week (Bike week) in the Weirs the ANL is soo loud you could prob fire up a drag boat with open exhaust and not hear it above the din of motorcycles & people!

I think we all just need get along.... there is no right to peace and quiet!

Woodsy

wow
 

Is this what is comes down to? I can't even go out for a ride on a Saturday with out reading about it the next day. That was me you were complaining about. What else do you need to complain about? Was the boat to shinny and hurt your eyes? Was I making to big of a wake and ruined your beach? Get a life!!

Gee, I don't know.....because it's loud?!? :confused: :confused: :confused: Maybe he doesn't want to damage his hearing since he's so close to the exhaust stacks; maybe he's already done damage and just wants to avoid doing more damage because he's around the boat so much!! If you can't figure it out, you're worse off than I thought!! Get a clue!!

Maybe this is a HUGE presumption on my part but if the owner of that boat didn't like the engine noise, I'm guessing.....JUST GUESSING, mind you.....that he wouldn't OWN the boat!!!

That is open, unmuffled exhaust, that is why.

lake Amphibian
 

This is funny that if someone should land and take off in a seaplane. No one object to the noise. Yet the noise is louder than any boat I have heard. Are they just a status symbol that they are above anyone's objections to their noise???? :eek:

It's all relative.

Whoa...that was quite the nasty tirade. I can only hope your boating skills are better than your spelling skills.

I thought the response was very appropriate.

well thank you:laugh::laugh:

Of course you do.

I am so glad I could help you, let me know if there is anything else I can do. :D

I've heard your boat.. You are legal... I don't know why there is a discussion about someone adhering to the law... just my 2 cents.

There is no discussion here, just someone trying to stir the pot. Not sure why this is even being allowed but since it is, at least for now, I will play, nothing better to do today.

Some on this forum have trouble comprehending why and how a society makes and chooses laws. Laws come and go depending on the wants and needs or our people. As was mentioned in the past, we no longer need a law that says it's illegal to feed your slaves lobster more than 3 times in a week. There are laws on the books about neighbor's dogs barking into the night. Some on this thread would say just put in ear plugs or move. There are laws againnst dogs defecating in the park. People who use the park find this practice objectionable and want people to pick up after their dogs or walk them elsewhere. Some on this thread would say if you find dog poo objectionable then just stay away from parks. If it were just one or 2 dogs people might not notice or care.
Quite frankly the noise issue was one of the issues that helped usher in another law that those on this thread seem to dislike. Yet it was people whose reaction was similar to that displayed here, thumbing their noses at what annoyed or frightened others, who are responsible. Now we have the noise issue. Most people in NH are concerned and aware that we share limited space and do their best to be good neighbors. Others thumb their nose or chant the live free or die slogan. Excaliber mentioned the greatest generation of spoiled brats. Erica Blizzard, the former leader of your cause, seemed unconcerned about some of the above issues. From her shoplifting charge, to her outrageous boating escapade, and on to her cell phone/ 80 MPH plus I-93 incident, she seemed to think laws or other people's opinions of her behavior did not matter. I see this spoiled brat aspect in some of the noise postings here.
Again, it was noise that brought us here to present and possibly future legislation. As an example, many are distressed about noise and speeds even of 45 MPH in narrow or congested areas of the lake like Winter Harbor or Wolfeboro Bay. I can hear some of this thread's respondants already saying "tough", "live free or die", etc. but when you get enough people ticked off at the behavior of a few bad apples, that's when people want to do something about it. As far as the boat in question on Sat. night, it's the kind of annoyance where people on their docks up and down the shore make the palms up gesture of "what the heck is this". Maybe the exhaust is legal, maybe not, but when you get enough people irritated like that they will be demanding stricter decibel limits or slower speeds. That's just the way it is, was, and always will be. And be careful of BUI, because speeding (or excessive noise) could be cause to be pulled over.
So...bottom line, whether you're talking dog poo or GFBL's, police yourselves or others will do it for you.

You are a genius!!

Laws come and go depending on the wants and needs or our people.

Could not say that any better SOTD, stay tuned, some law/s might go in the future.

Being a responsible law abiding citizen is a good thing. Being a selfish whiner always crying about what you dislike is a bad thing. If these boats are illegal due to excessive sound, then they will be challenged by the MP. If they are legal, you are just going to have it suck it up.Most of the boats on the lake are compliant. There are a few that are not. Starting this thread is just a public relations stunt to try and further your cause. You really need to move inland or adjust. This is the wrong lake to be on if you want tranquility 100% of the time, every day of the week.

Unlikely. The state legislature has indicated that they're becoming tired of this issue that has dragged on now for several years. With a large majority in the Senate and then the House voting in favor, well enough said, But wait, with a majority of emails, letters, and an ARG poll further concurring, well you get the picture. Not to mention how 9 out of 10 people approached to sign a pro speed limit petition wanted to sign and there was a 4 to 1 majority who signed said petition compared to the SBONH petition(which could be signed with the click of a mouse), then we can see that this is indeed a done deal.

Interesting, when I made that post I was not even thinking about the law we cannot mention here.

Why choose Winnipesaukee???
 

RE: Irritating loud boat

Maybe I’m missing something here, but I know of no way to make a boat more loud than it is, by that I mean that there is no means to amplify the sound coming out of an open exhaust. Well with the possible exception of open headers or zoomies which you are probably not likely to see these days on Winnipesaukee.

So then if we can agree on that fact, and I’m pretty sure that’s the case, then what am I missing with this post?

Until the advent I/O drives, and really not until they became more popular than other drive systems, inboard engines and jet drives were common place in marine propulsion. And the vast majority of those had un-muffled above the waterline open exhaust, and that was the case for decades! :)

I guess you might add a few decibels for very high HP or supercharged engines, but I hardly think it would significantly add (as in double or triple) to the volume from a marine exhaust.

So then we have a fundamental issue of expectations of what a boat should sound like.

Given that Winnipesaukee has been THE destination for recreation (i.e. family gatherings, power boating, and other noise filled activities) for a hundred years, then it seems to me that anyone who has been around boats AND Winnipesaukee for any significant period of time will have an expectation of boats with open exhaust and their drone that says this is how we have fun!

If your expectation is that you want a quiet, secluded, natural setting Winnipesaukee has not been that since they made the first gallons on gasoline and power boats and the residents on Winnipesaukee so much embraced the concept of power boating that every town built town docks and sold gas!

It is the glorious history of Winnipesaukee that some of us remember, enjoy, and look forward to! :D

I for one live to hear the sound of a marine engine with an open and above the waterline exhaust filling the air, it enhances my visit and time there, and that’s day/night/anytime/all the time. I can just sit on the shore and hear the sound of a power boat and feel both excited and soothed by its drone. Its why I go to Winnipesaukee not some other lake.

So I guess it begs the question if you don’t like open marine exhaust, and power boats, why choose Winnipesaukee? There are plenty of other lakes in NE where they don’t have the history of being a power boaters lake and offer that solitude some seek.

So I will say again, what am I missing,,, :confused:

And I am not looking to antagonize, irritate, or offend, I would honesty like to understand the disconnect here, because it really does not make any sense to me.

You cannot argue with Sunset gone Amuck. His sole purpose is for some weak PR. No normal person would have started a thread like this . And, since Don has been quick to shut down any performance boat related thread, hopefully he will shut this one down as well. Sorry Don, we didn't start this negative thread. And, Sunset, you need to move on and get over it. There will be loud boats on the lake untill the last drop of petroleum is consumed.

Not so big...
 

Between lost/semi-submerged metal shipping containers, lost fisheries, pollution, oil-spills—plus the freight and oil tanker traffic—even "our endless oceans" don't have room for us any more. :(

My old screen-name was no joke: it was a reminder of recent US history. My present screen-name is a reminder that smaller boats impact fewer people on the lake. :cool:

1) Boat registrations have doubled on Lake Winnipesaukee in the last two decades, so it's not just the shorelines that are no longer "infinite".

2) Since Lake Winnipesaukee's shorelines are all pretty-much developed, there are a great-many more residents to be irritated by excessive noise. :(

3) One can always complain to the Marine Patrol—but prepare to be interrogated! :eek:

Toll-free NHMP: (877) 642-9700

4) Activities of every single legally-compliant boater can easily be overlooked and ignored. :coolsm:

5) But just one non-compliant boater in "the N.E. area of the lake (Northern W'boro,T,boro, Melvin Village area)" can disturb miles and miles of people near Lake Winnipesaukee.

Some boats can be heard across the full length of Winnipesaukee's open Broads! :eek2:

6) Residents of these shorelines have their own kinds of noises.

• Listening for weather reports,
• to music or AM radio, for talk or the crackles of lightning nearby
• to a scanner's emergency calls and
• to calls for assistance and
• to warning signals from other boats and
• to the voices of Nature, and
• to just normal conversation around
• docks
• sun decks
• the grill

Those residents impact no one's enjoyments on the lake.

(And they have the greater stake in the well-being of our lake community).

7) As to religion, I merely referred to the other active forum thread named "Spiritual".

Note the absense of those who would change The Smile of Great Spirit to: ...It's All About ME...

Talking about " all about me " lmao, try re-reading your post !! Your words of pretending to care for the lake make me gag. And now YOU are throwing in History. Get a life, and if you do decide to keep your present one, do us all a favor and move back to your original state. Preach to them, they will probably jump right on your bandwagon with you.
EAR PLUGS or U-HAUL, very easy solutions to your MAJOR inconvience. Please think about what you are SAYING. Think about what you HAVE, Think about what others DO NOT have and maybe, just maybe you will see how wonderful you have it. As I mentioned earlier in a post, Life is way way to short to worry about the little things. Re-assess your priorities and and what is actually important in your life, and you should find, 1 minute of time a boat is passing your area is really not such a big thing. Remember, Life is what you make it !!

I say every boater should buy the horns that the World Cup fans are complaining about and use them repeatedly. Once we drown each other out and can't hear each others complaints I might start respecting people on the lake again. "Knowing" who my fellow boaters are and their true colors makes me give people less BOD.

I don't care what side of any issue you are, reading winnipesaukee.com is not what it was when I first came to the site in 2001 when I started boating on the lake and I don't like it. Totally different vibe and I can actually say it sucks. And yes, I've been sucked into debates. For that I apologize but really want no more part of this place.

Many on this forum have been saddened by the direction the lake has taken in the last 20 years. Before coming to this forum I could see changes were needed; having witnessed some of the dominating, belittling, and selfish dialogue on the forum motivated me to become more active in recent legislation to help insure that this element could not succeed in an attempt to marginalize others on the lake. There did in fact seem to be a strong correlation between those who act this way and those who do so on the lake. That said I was amazed at the number of NH people (and out of staters) who felt the lake had indeed suffered in the last 20 years. There were innumerable comments about how "we won't go there anymore" and that "the lake is out of control".
The lack of introspection by some of those who feel their noise is not their problem makes me want to be similarly proactive, especially the immature response from dhuberty24. Acres per second's point of how some people's noise only affects them and some people's noise affects everyone is spot on. Where I live we are cognizant of how our behavior (and noise) might affect our neighbors.
Dhuberty24 might consider this next time he/she anticipates the next evening joyride. Give binoculars to your passengers for entertainment(seeing as any conversation would be near impossible) and have them scan the shore and count the number of clenched fists or other gestures directed toward his/her boat.
I also agree that boat noise, especially in the late hours, contributed greatly toward the institution of recent legislation. Thank goodness this late night boat noise is pretty much a thing of the past. And no, I won't move to a smaller lake...I have too many friends and family right here. I intend to continue to do my part to make the lake better for the future. TB

Loud Jets
 

Time to change the subject - boats have been bashed enough. How about these loud jets coming in and out of Laconia airport? Where's the outrage over this noise? I have a business that's within spitting distance of the runway, so sometimes it seems like these jets are coming right thru my warehouse. Call Marine Patrol, call the FAA, call Obama, call Pelosi, call Lynch. My God, don't you people have anything else to do? You are on a lake, there are boats on the lake, boats make noise - period. Don't like it, leave. Your agenda is not the only agenda and it's not the "correct" agenda. The lake belongs to everyone. Yes, kayaks bug the living heck out of me. They make my dogs bark and they come too close to my house. Same with sailboats. Loud boats bother me a lot less, and fast/loud boats not at all. But I have to live with kayaks and sailboats because the lake belongs to everyone.

How about a little song to cheer you drones up? (sung to the tune of "This Land is My Land")

This lake is my lake
This lake is your lake
From Center Harbor
To the Forty Islands
From the Weirs Beach Channel
To the Braun Bay waters....
THIS LAKE WAS MADE FOR YOU AND ME.

Feel free to add more verses.

Well said sir.

I think this is because we were actually out trying to have some FUN (after most of us were busting our butts all week), rather than sitting around cackling and peeking out between the curtains like Gladys Cravitz on Bewitched. We were not worrying about what everyone else is doing and how everyone else's actions were infringing on our "rights". We were not spending our weekends in Nashua (1 hour, 20 minutes from Winnipesaukee) trying to get signatures on a petition from people who have never been to Winnipesaukee. Nope, we were not spending our time trying to rid the lake of a certain "ILK", but rather just spending our few hours of personal time trying to have FUN. Oh the horror!

Everybody gets offended by something or somebody, everyday.

Thank-you APS for making my point.

You stated that:

• Listening for weather reports,
• to music or AM radio, for talk or the crackles of lightning nearby
• to a scanner's emergency calls and
• to calls for assistance and
• to warning signals from other boats and
• to the voices of Nature, and
• to just normal conversation around
• docks
• sun decks
• the grill

Those residents impact no one's enjoyments on the lake.

(And they have the greater stake in the well-being of our lake community).

Well, I have to respectfully disagree with you.

While those activities mentioned above may not impact some people’s enjoyment, others may be greatly disturbed by your presence on the lake. There are groups of people who have been debating for decades about Man’s infringement and pollution of the lake. Docks, decks and homes are made of treated lumber. This lumber releases chemicals including Pentachlorophenol, Creosote, Sodium silicate, and Arsenic into the environment. Some make the argument that it is the lakeside residents that are doing irreparable harm to the environment and their homes and landscaping are killing the lake.

So no matter what you do, you WILL impact someone’s enjoyment of the lake.

What is the bigger evil, noise pollution or carcinogens in the soil and the water?

I guess it all depends on your perspective.

If you are referring to the endless number of new restrictions and people who are trying to change the hundred year nature of Winnipesaukee, than I FULLY agree with you! :rolleye1:

This is not the Winnipesaukee of the past, some things are better, some are worse. :(

For some issues we can agree to disagree, and vent about those things that bug us on the forums.

For other issues there are processes to enact public safety laws. The positive outcomes are building codes, food safety, industrial regulations, etc. The negative outcomes are most often restrictions of personal freedoms, and the foundation for those restrictions are all too often personal preference, not public safety! :mad:

I will be the first to agree that we have a group of the population who abuse EVERY privilege known to man. They want their experience to be bigger, louder, more of every facet of what came before them and not by a small fraction as we have seen in the past, it by multiples of X. :mad: :mad:

I will also concede that in “some” cases intervention with restrictions is a necessary evil, but those cases should be the exception, NOT the standard. We didn’t create a legislative process to define and regulate every element of our lives, we did it to provide protects from worst offenders.

This is America, not some totalitarian autocracy, so just because we can make a law or regulation doesn’t mean we should,,,

Tone deaf
 

It's so sad how this forum has been degraded by all the rabid posters -- on both sides -- of a number of well known topics. A simple complaint about a loud boat turns into full throttle nastiness by all the usual suspects.

Some of you -- indeed most of you -- could just try letting someone have an opinion different than your own and not feel the need to jump in and jump on the "offender".

I've noticed a lot of former frequent posters are rarely seen or heard anymore. I suspect that, like me, they are tired of the tit for tat, angry and denigrating posts that so many of you think constitutes healthy "debate". You know it's ok to let someone have an opinion that is different from your own. Sometimes saying nothing is the better response. More than a few of you should try that more often and then maybe this forum might return to the civil and constructive source for shared ideas and experience that it once was.

I'll get off my soap box now....

Good point but I find the logic is a bit tenuous. People on the lake ARE concerned about the impact of all these issues affecting the lake and various interventions have been studied and instituted to help protect the lake, for example the Shoreline Protection Act. Many of these issues have been studied by the NH Lakes Association and people concerned about the lake do in fact take the recommendations and/or laws seriously. Taking on the issue of noise or speed does not preclude concern and action by the same individuals about the important issues you've brought up.

I have been staying out of this.... But look....

We all love the lake. We all have differences of opinions as to what regulations should and should not be on the lake. Differences are what makes the lake great. You can go out and see so many different types of boats and meet different types of people. We are all not going to like each other or peoples views. You can continue to argue until you are blue in the face and no one here will have their opinions changed. This has boiled down to the age old arguement fought for decades between sail boats and powerboats. We all will have to just learn to agree to disagree at the specific subject at hand.

While Sunset and I have not always agreed on issues on the lake he has never hidden the fact that he doesn't like noisey boats. I have never hidden the fact that I love the sound of a performance engine. I know I will never change his mind and he knows he will never change mine and we go on.

No need for the nasty comments and no need to continue to turn the conversation into something it is not.

If you dislike the noise, it is your right to post it and discuss it. If you disagree please say so. But everyone lets come back to earth and realize what we are arguing about and see that nothing is going to come from it.

Enjoy other peoples opinions and enjoy discussing them. Lets not attack each other for their opinions because it is just that "an opinion".

Let the firing commence. ;)

First of all Lawn psyco, I know that I contributed to some unfriendlyness directed at you, sorry, don't let it drive you off the board. There is more good from the forum then the occasional inconsiderate post.

Second, it surprises me how much perception effects reality. I have a bicycle and a kayak in addition to a car and a power boat. My world view changes when human power than when gas powered. In both cases I can forget what the other guy is thinking. You have to work to be empathetic and put yourself in the other guys shoes.

Paleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze!!!!!!:laugh:

Thanks Sunset On The Dock,

As for the logic being tenuous…agreed.

We are talking about an individual’s perspective, right or wrong, it’s just their opinion.

It was your opinion was this boat was too loud. I wasn’t there so I can’t really say and seeing that you and your friends were cranking up NPR, I’m not holding my breath for an invite any time soon :laugh:. If the boat is legal, than there is nothing that should be done about it. If it is illegal, it should be fixed immediately.

And since we are talking about opinions….It is my opinion the Celtics close out the Lakers tonight. But that is just my opinion, and it’s worth exactly what you paid for it.

Loud boats
 

If there is a problem with loud boats, wouldn't a noise law be more prudent than a speed limit? It goes directly to the cause of the problem.

APS,

Please expand upon your comment here. I have on more then one occasion decided a issue was bad enough on the water that I would talk to the Marine Patrol. On those occasions I have never felt I was being Interrogated.

The MP officers have always asked the standard who what where and why questions and tried to get as many details as possible for their reports but other then that, nothing has ever been interrogative in Nature. What they have done, is listened to what I have had to say, taken as much information as I could give them, and also told me weather or not what happened was really an offense or not. Occasionally if they feel what you are reporting is a offense they ask you to fill out a witness report but that is really about it.

In fact this weekend, the young officer whom I talked to would have had every right while I was talking to her to decided to do a safety inspection had she wished. In fact to tell you the truth I halfway expected it. But I was calm while talking to her, I didn't try tell the MP how to handle the situation. I simply gave them some information regarding a situation, and the people I knew where involved. The MP officer did what she felt best. Agreed that the operators in question should have known better... And that although there was nothing to do after the fact, she herself and others would pay a little more attention to the area and people in question over the next few weeks, and get after them if they where caught continuing to do what I witnessed.

The MP is more the willing to help out. People need to understand that they just can't go write somebody a ticket because you said they did xyz... but if you let them know something is happening, and who might be involved, they try to keep an eye out. There is a certain amount of questioning they have to do in order to take credit in your report.

The Marine Patrol is like any other Law enforcement Agency. The do ask questions when you talk to them. Because they need to make sure they are being given reliable information, and aren't just dealing with someone that has an ax to grind. How ever unlike other law enforcement Agencies most MP officers have a love for the essence of what they are doing. They are boaters at the end of the day, and just like all of us they would like nothing more then an enjoyable day on the lake.

Chip there already is a law that deals with this.... and has been for several years. If your exhaust is believed to be to loud the Marine Patrol, can site you and request that you have your boat tested. There is a documented procedure and test to decide whether or not a boat exhaust is to loud. This includes or at least at last I knew included both an idle reading as well as an open what at speed test. There are others her which may chose to let us know more about what actually goes on......

Lets not go back to the SL debate. However yes your question would be correct that if there is a noise issue that it should be addressed by noise statutes.

I believe the statute is 93 dcb. (hopefully someone knows it off hand) Most above water exhaust boats have either internal or clamp on external mufflers that keep it below the decible rating. If a boat has no mufflers at all and straight through hull exhaust it is very very apparent.

A boat within the legal noise limits can seem too loud depending on the situation. If you are in a smaller cove, no wind, no other ambient noises, the echo can make a boat seem louder then it actually is. This goes not only for above water exhaust but jet skies, planes, cars, snowmobiles, motorcycles etc. It is all relative. I am not sure if this was the case in the initial post for I wasn't there, however I have heard the boat and it did not seem outside the legal decible ratings.

The main arguement that I have researched extensively is the claim that one can install captains call (switchable exhaust) so that they can switch on the "loud" exhaust at anytime. This is not exactly true.

First let me say that any type of switchable exhaust is illegal in NH. I do not agree with that but we can discuss that another time. Captains call is designed to be used at low rpms. (under 2000 rpms). It keeps the boat much quieter while at idle. This is normally used for when warming up the boat at the dock, in a channel, or inside a congested bay at idle. There have been claims that a performance boat with HP engines can simply switch it on "at speed" to mute the engine, when they see a MP. This is NOT the case. Anything over 2000 rpms and you can do severe damage if not blow your engine due to the back pressure. There is not a type of switchable exhaust for "Performance Engines" that can be turned on at speed without potential catastrophic damage to the engine(s).

There used to be a type, not sure if it is still available, called "silent choice". What this did was redirect the exhaust to "thru hub" or under the water. This could only be used on NON HP engines, because again HP engines needs much less back pressure to run correctly.

There have been many claims about this in the debate on the "law that we will not discuss" and I just wanted to explain the differences and get the facts out concerning that. I am not suggesting we get into that discussion again.

Now as for "my opinion". I have mufflers on my boat that work great. Since the supercharger has been removed the boat is extremely quiet and I have not lost too much performance out of it. (about 5 mph). I can remove the mufflers when I am not on the lake and put on straight tips without too much effort. My opinion is that switchable exhaust should be allowed. I would be more then happy to turn it on when in a channel, or at the dock while warming up the engine. This way I am not upsetting anyone who doesn't like the sound of the above water exhaust. However we are not allowed to have them.

That is something I think both sides of this debate could work on together. It simply would benefit everyone.

According to NH BoatEd it is 88dB for engines manufactured after Jan 1991, 90dB for engines manufactured prior to this date. This is for stationary testing. The moving test ("A" scale, whatever that means) at 50 feet drops it to 82dB

http://boat-ed.com/nh/handbook/engequip.htm

I had it in my head that it was 86dB for some reason, glad I looked it up especially since my twin 4 stroke Honda outboards make so much noise... :D

Having been a past Baja owner with switchable exhaust, I find it crazy that it is outlawed, especially if when set on thru-hull it is already at a legal limit without having to divert down through the prop, which mine was.

Antique boats
 

I know a number of classic wooden boats with no sound deadening devices. The are loud but with the sweet mellow 'flat head sound'. Do they ever get stop? Old man Foley with his 30's something raceboat goes out almost every morning with his 12 cylinder Packard singing. You can see the 12 'mega phones' sticking out the engine hatch. he's been doing this for decades. Never been pulled over.

Sweet sound to my ears..................... :D

Most places that have noise limits use the standard 92 dBA level.. I found the 82 and 88 levels quite interesting. A quick check on Boattest.com revealed that an 18' Bayliner bowrider with a smaller outboard produced levels of 75 dBA to 98 dBA. I can understand the at idle limit of 88, which is pretty high actually. I agree that having a switchable exhaust makes for a much better experience for the majority of people in tight channels and smaller coves.

I remember hearing very loud boats, many of which were slow, decades ago on Winni.

Exactly. So why not enforce this law, instead of the "law that shall not be mentioned".
IMO, it is kind of like the noise law for land vehicles (ie motorcycles). I know there is a noise law out there, but I also know that there are hundreds, if not thousands of motorcycles out on our roads that exceed the allowable limits.

I too fondly remember virtually all inboards built before the 1980’s and jet drives boats of the 1960’s & 1970’s had open above the waterline exhaust and they were not necessarily big and fast boats, all too often they were family boats and were under 20’ :)

The 16’ – 20’ jets drive boats were quite popular right up to 1980 as they were billed as a safer option because they had no external propeller and they were almost all powered by big block Olds or Ford or Chevy engines that had big low restriction water-cooled aluminum exhaust manifolds and they would bellow loud and clear when you got on them and had the four carb opened up! Interestingly, most of them would not break 50 MPH on a good day,,, But they were very popular and never caused any commotion due to their sound that I know of,,,

So how does the owner of a classic 1970 Glastron 18’ jet boat respond to the noise law where there is no reasonable way to retrofit a marine muffler and/or a below the waterline exhaust? And clearly these boats are going to blow the dB limits at full throttle, but that’s just how they were manufactured.

It seems interesting to me that such boats were not a problem for over 60 years but now they are the worst thing since the invention of the power boat itself,,, I say again, what am I missing??? :confused:

So as this debate continues to go on. I decide to take a look at a few things first was the OSHA standards.... now in case anyone is wondering the 88db limit is probably derived from this... according to OSHA standards no hearing protection is needed for workers exposed to less then 90 db per 8 hour day.... In short a boat could sit a idle and you sit right next to it all day long and there should be no problems... Now if you chose to sit next to it that is your problem.

The higher the DB level the shorter the exposure time is the chart I looked at broke it all the way down to 15 mins at 115db....

Now why do things get mentioned on the A-scale... A is simple the musical tone that a sound meter is looking at. A sound meter listening to noises in the A spectrum has an equivalent overall noise db level.

So that covers the idling test....

Now as for the flyby test.... I haven't gotten to the bottom of that one yet...but once again I am sure it is routed in some fact that over the course of 50' sound should drop by X db.... and as long as a boat is with in the spec. there should never be a case where a boat is at full song and less then 50 feet away.... If I find the information on sound fall off I will pass it on...

Oh and just incase people want to read the OSHA std:

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owad...ards&p_id=9735

Now as for my second point, which I am sure is where the fly by spec came from was to look at what the db level of some ordinary things are...such as a normal conversation 60db... a refrigerator running 40 db, vacuum cleaner 70 db, and Heavy traffic 85 db.....

just google db levels and you be amazed what you find.

In short as long as a boat is legal.... If you find the sound to much then I hope you don't run your vacuum, or allow an normal conversation to take place while you at the lake.

question to sunset on the dock
 

-Good Point

To Sunset on the Dock, I understand wanting to enjoy a quite evening on the water so I am not busting you here. Maybe I am wrong, but it sounds like you looked out and saw and heard as you said a 25' boat, and I am filling in the rest of the description... newer Deep-V style, what is so often described as a Go Fast Boat.

If so, I just want to know honestly if you had looked out to see what the noise was and saw an old wooden, say Christ Craft speed boat, would you have had the same reaction or made the post. I ask because we live near an area that a lot of older wooden boats are run on a regular basis and they are equally as loud. Some of them I know are rigged with 12 and 16 cylinder engines believe it or not and some do over 70, even the majority of the ones with 8 are quite loud.

Maybe it would have felt more like On Golden Pond and Less Like Miami Vice?
Just asking

Actually that is the point I think I was trying to make and you did it much better! :D

And I too am not looking to point fingers at any one or rag on them, just trying to understand the disconnect between what was and what is and what its a problem now,,, :confused:

Some subjects sure do hit a nerve, while some say discussions like this have no business on such a forum, I actually disagree. Provided everyone is being at least civil to one another, having a healthy and maybe at times somewhat heated debate on such issues is a good thing.

I think the problem here is not a loud boat. Rather it's that some appear, whether intentional or not, to have a total disregard for others when it comes to what they consider to be fun. It is impossible to have a civilized society when there are those who insist on engaging in behavior that has a direct and detrimental impact on others. What gives anyone the "right" to do that? Any number of examples can be used to prove this point, and nit picking one thing or the other is not really productive. Instead I'd simply point out that since we all share the lake, why not do so in a manner where we are considerate of others? Does that mean no loud boats? Nah common that's not really fair, but for those that do knowingly operate one why not have enough consideration to have one that is reasonable in the amount of noise pollution it spews along with where and in what manner it's being operated as not to ruin the enjoyment of others as well. The failure of some to understand this is what has lead to legislative action to curb this behavior and like it or not once the laws are on the books you can bet they will begin to further restrict what we are "allowed" to do. Nobody wants that but let's face it folks, the only reason why many of these laws are passed is because somebody somewhere did something stupid and the knee jerk reaction is for the nanny state to write more laws. Do yourself and everyone else a favor and don't give anyone the excuse to complain. Will there be those that are such zealots that they will never be happy? Sure but who the hell cares what they have to say, as I would like to think we are all civilized people here.

As a disclaimer... I'll admit I am not a fan of performance boats. That is my opinion and I'm entitled to that opinion, HOWEVER does that mean they should be restricted from being on the lake? The answer is no. It's extremely unfair to lump everyone that owns one into a single category and say they are all "bad" when if you really look at it honestly we're only talking about a handful of bad apples. There are those who are very outspoken on this forum who enjoy them and clearly do have consideration for others (and for that I commend you). For those of us that may not like them, we say have consideration for others... however isn't it hypocritical to say that, but at the same time not give those that like these things to have the chance to pursue what they enjoy provided it is done so in a responsible way?

There I have said my piece, for what it's worth!!

Excellent post Maxum.

(SMAN, of course the answer would be NoooooooooooWaaaaaaaaaaaaay) :laugh: Had a very long, new-age type of woody boat pull up at the gas dock while we were in NY. It sounded like a 3-engine, 50' Mystic with a gazillion horsepower. Couldn't make out the name. The second noisiest, and The most irritating boat at my marina is a sailboat. If you can imagine a sound (rhymes with dart), hooked up to a 5000 watt amplifier and muddled through a bath tub, that's the boat :laugh:

Obviously, everyone has differing opinions and tolerances for everything, and noises have been at the leading edge of frustration or devotion since Paul Bunyan made so much noise in a deserted forest. (Yes, I was there observing).

But noise is noise, and yes Sman, you are right on to point out an obvious difference in what's pointed out by some. :rolleye2:

No disrespect to this poster but there is a lot of BS going on out there as to what people Think They Know about what's going on out there on the lake. If there were a half dozen 12 cylinder engines out there on the lake I would be surprised. Trust me Gentlemen.. There are NO 16 cylinder engines running around the lake... Willy Nilly. :coolsm: JUST SAYIN. :D NB

I happen to know Dhuberty24 and he recently purchased a Whaler to use past 9pm as to not bother his neighbors. He spent a couple thousand bucks to appease your wants and yet he still has to deal with complaints like this. When you were enjoying your cocktail this past weekend and heard his boat, it was 8pm. Maybe you can try to remember back 20 years when you were a bit younger and enjoyed the thrill of a GFLB more than a cocktail and a sunset. We all have likes/dislikes, annoyances, opinions, etc., but to complain in order to push for laws further restricting our rights as human beings is causing more problems and dislike amongst eachother than good. For now it's the speed limit, and maybe in the future it'll be to lower the noise level of boats. What's next? Maybe it'll be something that impacts you directly and I'm willing to bet if someone chooses to complain about it on a public forum, you might get a bit annoyed and fight back. And you may even spell a few words wrong.

engine reply
 

Right but they are out there.

As far as the 16, I was at a Weirs Antique boat show a few yrs ago and was looking at a boat with a big engine and was told by the guy in the boat that it was a 16 cylinder Allison Engine (Allison Aircraft Engine).

Loud was the point

There is only ONE boat out there with a 16 cylinder engine..The name of the boat is Ethyl Ruth IV. It is an antique raceboat. The engine was a 16 cylinder supercharged Miller engine. (One of THREE built for marine use.) On very rare occasions he shows up at antique boat shows with that engine installed. Almost always..the boat has a 502 CI V8 substitute installed. The Miller is just too Rare and Valuable to run routinely.

Allison aircraft V-1710s.. were V12s. They were used in the WWII P-38s as well as early P-51s...and a number of others. Allison never made a 16 cylinder engine. ....NB

thank you,, people need to ligthing up and have fun .

You only live once.

huuu...didn't hear ya cuz I wasn't listening
 

I also happen to know Dhuberty24- and he is usually headed to my camp in his load boat & we LOVE it!! He’s one of a few that sit at our dock. Yes were part of the go fast, be load crowed…….there nothing like the sound of & smell of exhaust in the morning…ahhhhhh
He has made an effort to be respectful to all our neighbors taking his smaller boat later in the night & I'm willing to bet he's a better captain then most
Everyone needs to stop complaining & get on w. life…..take care brush your hair :emb:

Noise?
 

This thread makes me think of the people that buy a home next to airport and then complain about the noise. Hey want quite don't live by a lake that has big boats.

Again, it all depends on one's point of view what is noise to some is music to others.

How many hours was that noisy boat there?

This whole thread was started by a major league complainer. You cannot make sense of it, so don't try. It is obvious he cannot be made happy untill every selfish personal preference of his has been satisfied. Its all about him and it will always be. Of course he will try and cover his ways by telling you its about safety or its about the preservation of the lake.These are smoke screens to cover his real goals. Goals that only appeal to a select demented few. So, just let it go. You can't reason with the unreasonable.

Take heed, those who might be willing to ignore what others on the lake might find offensive, inappropriate, and inconsiderate. Noise indeed was what brought us to our present state of legislative affairs on the lake. And as stated earlier, stay sober as speed or excessive noise might be what gets you pulled over or reported.

What about safety? I recall somebody mentioning something about safety bringing us to our present state of legislative affairs? So confused :confused:

It's the "agenda of the day" concept". Changes with the wind. Kind of like a blue plate special at a restaurant.

Regardless of boat type
 

There are countless things that may get you pulled over on the lake.

Staying sober on the lake is every boater's responsibility whether they captain the Mount, a performance boat, or a kayak.