Changing furnace filter
I have an oil furnace. There's a slight smoky smell in the house. I checked downstairs for leaks around the flue and don't see any. The furnace also seems to be cycling on and off too often. So I conclude that the most likely cause of both problems is a dirty filter. When was the last time I had the furnace cleaned? I don't dare answer that.
It can take quite a while to get an appointment for a cleaning. In the meantime, can I change the filter myself? Anything I need to know about doing this? Does Home Depot sell filters? Or can I vacuum the filter? I read online that you're supposed to change the filter every 3 months. That seems excessive to me, but I conclude that every 3 years is bad. Very bad. I have a carbon monoxide detector (recently replaced). I will call the oil company tomorrow if they're open. |
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I'm unaware of any filter for a forced hot water system, but the machinery should be serviced annually for best efficiency, new jets, etc. In the mean time, if it is cold out, it will cycle more frequently and any deficiencies will show up more obviously. Your oil delivery company should have a tech on duty 24/7. The sooner you call, the sooner you will move up the list.
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Smell? Get the furnace human to do a tune up.
Cycling a lot? See above AND it's been very cold out. Also... Make sure nothing is open to the outside such as an unlocked double hung window with an upper sash that has dropped a bit. If you have a whole house fan that is open to the attic it must be covered from above. Are any cellar windows opened a crack? Filter? Make note of the direction the air travels. You'll want to install the new one the right way. The filter has its size in inches on its edge. For example it might be 20"x20"x1". Filters come in varying capability. The hardware store, big box or small, will have guidance on that so you may pick your level of paranoia. |
My post above refers to a forced hot air system.
If that is not what you have then never mind. A filter on a system with radiators might apply to the one that protects the oil burner from impurities in the oil. That one is best left to the furnace technician. |
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The open window will make the house cold and thus run the furnace more.
I suspect your oil burner needs a cleaning to make the smell go away. |
BTW Carbon monoxide is the poisonous gas that you have detectors for. That would be CO.
CO2 is carbon dioxide, like they use in fire extinguishers and dairy bar whip cream dispensers. |
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Your flue needs to be cleaned... badly.
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Oil burners need to be serviced yearly by a pro. If you have any appliance that burns anything, you should have a carbon monoxide and smoke detector in the house.
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You just need to have the furnace serviced.
There is a filter. It’s called an oil filter and your least likely problem. You really need to service oil burners every year. Two at most, depending on how many gallons you run. You are not smelling CO. It’s odorless. Your burner is not firing up properly and you smell soot because it’s igniting late. It causes a big burp when it does that and you get that soot / diesel oil smell in the house. Service guy will typically put a new nozzle, change the oil filter, check/clean or replace electrodes, and clean the flue. It all has to get done. As long as it’s firing up your fine. Especially if it just started but get it serviced ASAP. Now you’ll be competing with people that have no heat because you procrastinated. Don’t F’k with oil burners. They HAVE to be serviced. I used to do mine myself ;) Purred like a kitten. |
The filter that gets changed often is to clean the air that gets blown back into the house. Yours may be so clogged that the burner is running to the time limit without putting enough warm air into your house. You do need to change that to reduce dust in the ducts and house. It is a simple procedure in most furnaces.
If your system has not been serviced in a while you should definitely schedule that ASAP. At best, a dirty burner is less efficient. More seriously is the chance your flue is clogged (as suggested above.) This will eventually lead to a buildup of carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide, both of which are dangerous. When you come inside and feel your lungs become irritated you are probably feeling the CO2 buildup. You will not feel the CO but that is more dangerous because it displaces and blocks oxygen abortion on your red blood cells. Don't wait. Call today for service. Also, people who burn fuel in their homes should have at least on carbon monoxide alarm. Good luck! |
Thank you very much for all these helpful responses. I had the carbon monoxide checked last night and fortunately it was 0%. I was able to schedule a cleaning for tomorrow. I do have one carbon monoxide detector upstairs and a smoke detector upstairs and downstairs, both recently replaced.
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Every few months is recommended, more if you have pets. We have 4 dogs, so I have to change monthly. |
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If you had a clogged air filter it would over heat the heat exchanger and shutdown. Or if you have a modern system it would tell you :) (one that actually measures air flow rates). Or the blower would trip a breaker due to excessive load (if it doesn’t burn out first). It would not start stinking up the house with fumes. For hot air systems the air flow is completely isolated from combustion chamber. Now if the system is clean and it’s a hot air system and you get fumes. You might have a heat exchanger leak. That would be bad. That only happens with forced hot air too. Also have to watch out that you’re not pulling fumes into the house from the chimney. BTW I always ran a chimney cap. Moisture in your chimney does not function well. I always tend to see Oil is Forced Hot Water and Propane / Natural Gas is frequently Forced Hot Air but sometimes forced Hot Water too, but not as often. I don’t think I’ve even seen oil fired Forced Hot Air but I always assumed they existed. The “filter” Sailaway it probably recalling from his last service is probably the oil filter. If that clogs up. You are shut down. You really have to go a long time before those clog up. The most common issue on oil burners is a bad nozzle (they get worn and gum up) and dirty/worn electrodes causes it a to have a long time to ignite. You’ll hear the blower run and a long delay before it ignites. Then the smell. You need a perfect spray pattern and clean perfectly spaced electrodes for it to ignite instantly. Clogged flu is way less common. Nozzle and electrodes is almost always first. If it’s a bad installation with sat long horizontal exhaust pipes then clogged flu is more plausible. Partial blocked flu will cut efficiency. If it takes to long to ignite the burner safety will eventually trip. If it’s been running like this I would not hit the reset button on the burner. It usually means there is lots of oil in the chamber if it trips. Unless you are in risk of freezing to death :) If you do, prepare for a boom if it ignites :) The time between it getting slow to ignite and smelly and tripping burner safety is usually VERY long. Typically months. It’s crying for help though. Most oil companies will come out with in 24 hrs if you have no heat in this weather. It’s a very common first sign of needing service. It also tends to start during a cold spell. After it gets serviced. Listen to it carefully start. Know your system. Hear the blower start and the roar of the flame. When you hear the flame roar like 5 seconds after the blower, it’s not running optimal. It should be nearly instant. BTW I’ve seen “Professionals” totally botch a service job. I trust none with my families safety. Not electricians, plumbers or auto mechanics. I do hire them when absolutely required. But I watch them like a hawk when I do. It’s not their house and family, it’s yours. Most are very willing to educate you. And I never hesitate to ask questions. Hmmm, those mini splits are looking more attractive aren’t they. |
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Air leaks, especially in the upper level of the house, are worse in bitter cold weather, due to "stack effect." Air at zero F is about 15% more dense than inside air at 70 F. That's a relatively huge difference. The taller the column of warm interior air "immersed" (in a sense) in cold outside air, the greater the pressure difference. Its much like diving down into the lake, where the pressure increases steadily due to the weight of the water above any point. Think, too, about the need to have sufficient chimney height above a wood stove to get adequate draft. Most homes could benefit from a thorough air sealing effort. Typical leakage places are up high, through wiring holes in top plates of the upper story (caulk those with orange can foam), can lights in upper story ceilings (replace those with low profile LED fixtures, sealed to the ceiling), and under the sill at the top of the foundation and where there are any openings to the outside for electrical or plumbing. Also, a chimney often can have a huge open space around it up in the attic.\ There is a wealth of information online. A quick search on "air sealing existing home" turns up many. Here is but one: https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com...g-homes-part-1 Reducing the leakiness of a house makes a huge difference not just in heating cost but also in comfort. Air leakage, at its worst in bitter cold and windy weather, flushes out interior humidity produced by human occupancy. Excessive leakage results in exceedingly dry air, so uncomfortable that many resort to active humidification. Needing that almost always is a dead giveaway that the house is far too leaky. Humidification is not the answer; the first step should be tightening up the house. Deliberately adding humidity to a house runs the risk of condensation on cold exterior sheathing and roof decks, with associated mold and rot. |
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20x20 should be a forced hot air furnace. I haven't seen one on a boiler before.
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Maybe he has an air intake for the Oil Burner Blower with a filter on it or something. @SailAway can you post a picture? |
And the answer is . . .
I got the furnace cleaned and serviced today. The cause of the smoke smell was that the flue pipe was a bit corroded. The technician wrapped silver tape around it and said it will last until spring.
Regarding what I was calling a "screen," y'all were right. There was no screen. It was just the clean-out panel on the side of the boiler. The technician's theory about the short cycling was cold oil or a downdraft during that really cold weather creating a firing delay. The flue is not blocked; draft measured good today. |
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Glad you got it fixed. You need to get an oil fired appliance serviced every year or it will let you down eventually. Servicing includes changing the oil nozzle and cleaning the system. Oil filters if needed. |
Glad
Glad it all worked out without major problems. Always great to have feedback after these discussions and hear about the solutions.
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Because only Steam heat "Boils" the water :) I believe that's where the original term "Boiler" comes from. |
Carbon monoxide
I owe you guys some more serious thanks for this thread. A couple of posters mentioned carbon monoxide early on and that made me understand the seriousness of my situation. Without that, I probably would have waited a few days to take action. My parents taught us kids about carbon monoxide poisoning when we were very young. Remember Family Safety magazine in the 1950s and 50s? My parents used to make us read that every month and then gave us a written test on it. Carbon monoxide was a popular topic.
On Sunday night while I was reading your responses to my questions, I googled "carbon monoxide poisoning symptoms" and came across the story below at the Quota website. As soon as I read it I called the fire department at 10:30 at night for a carbon monoxide test and then called the oil company for service. Unwarranted panic or smart? I decided I'd rather be alive and look foolish. This chilling story from the Quora website is long but a good cautionary tale about carbon monoxide: Quote:
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When we moved to radiant baseboard with an active system rather than the radiators with the gravity system... they just kept the term boiler. |
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Back to square one
After two service calls, the smoky odor persists. What has been done so far:
The second technician confirmed that the odor is coming from the furnace/boiler/heating appliance. Parting words: "This should be much, much better." Has anything been missed here? |
But, once that oil smell gets into stuff it is so difficult to remove. Try lightning a candle or two. It’s a old oil painting trick
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Go watch it light off, make sure it's well lit, look for puffs of smoke when it lights. Also, hopefully they looked up the chimney for birds, nests, broken liner.
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Also make sure exhaust is not getting sucked back into house. How quick do you smell it? Is it near the boiler right after it fires up or does it take a while to smell it through out the house? The oil burner draws in air. Quite a bit. It basically gets it through all the leaks in the house. If you have a leak near the top of chimney it can pull that exhaust back in. Try opening a window closest to boiler, shouldn’t need much, just a few inches. Does that stop the smell? Also, like I said. A wet chimney is not good. It’s harder to get a draft going if it’s cold and wet. That can cause a poor start. Might get a chimney guy out to inspect the chimney. Good idea to do once in while any way. |
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Occasionally getting a whiff of smoke happens and usually isn't an issue. You have functioning smoke and co detectors so I wouldn't be too concerned. If you had a big problem those would be going off. Also, fuel oil is pretty pungent. It takes only a little for it to smell. Put kitty litter or sand on any drips you see from the maintenance. Obviously make sure you don't have any leaks. |
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And you should be. I have a oil burner with forced hot water and never smell smoke or odor from it. Our understanding is you have had two different service companies in or is it two individuals from the same company?
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How old is the furnace (I mean boiler) and chimney?
Like mentioned, I don’t think you have to panic but it should get resolved promptly. The fact that your flue pipe rotted through could mean there are other underlying issues. One other outside chance is that, now that it’s fixed it might take a little time to settle in. Oil in chamber to burn off and soot was stirred up. Like someone said it can stay around. I don’t know how finished the area is, but try a thorough vacuum and cleaning might help. Wipe down furnace too. Bet you there is a layer of black soot on everything. |
Next step?
At this point I don't know if I should call back the same oil company or try someone else? I'm concerned about paying for a 3rd service call from the same company, although both technicians seemed to know what they were doing.
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Never one to spend someone else’s money, however, in this case I would call a different company. Tell theyou are looking for a solution to the problem you are experiencing and this is what has happened to date. Show them the service records from the first two technicians. Personally, I use Foley Oil and have been happy with them. Keep in touch
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Free stuff
I think it may help to get a free opinion from a non-oil dealer.
1. Most fire depts have somebody who will do an inspection, at least for safety, but they are used to tracking down airflow in strange places. Some will have infrared cameras to highlight leaks. Equipment oil companies don't usually have. 2. Disaster cleaning companies e.g. Service Master or ServPro, do clean up after fires, floods, furnace puff-back, etc. They often deal with insurance companies. Your homeowners insurance won't pay for furnace/boiler maintenance, but if there is smoke/fumes absorbed into curtains, carpets, upholstery, etc. they may pay for cleaning. Usually the criteria is "sudden and accidental". Gradual damage from omitted maintenance is on you, but this sounds like a new phenomenon. (How many winters have you been in the house?) The estimator from the cleaning company will know. They usually will come out and make proposals for free. As suggested above, if this has been going on for a while, getting the smell out may be more than just fixing the boiler. Seems to me you had some roofing work done last fall. I tie that to the suggestion above about a wet chimney and chimney or air leaks. If this is a 1929 chimney, I'd guess it is not lined and hasn't been repointed for awhile. The FD will likely look at that too. (I had a new roof last fall, and they missed some seal around the chimney. Leaks into the interior ceiling were fixed by the GC. Point is, it does happen.) This is an interesting thread. I feel bad for your problems, but thanks for sharing. |
I have a suggestion that is unrelated to your combustion problem directly but indirectly may help, bleed your uppermost radiators. Most hydronic systems the age of yours will have a central Spirotherm vent or something like it, but air still somehow seems to get into the system and can become trapped in the radiators. This is especially true if the radiators are original vintage. Bleeding on old radiators is simple, look for a small vent valve near the top of the radiator and use a small screwdriver to open the vent long enough for the air to bleed out. You'll know when that is done becuase the vent will begin to pee out fluid instead of air. This simple bit of maintenance can make a huge difference in the efficiency!
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Are you running the old cast iron radiators, or the new hydronic baseboard?
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Do you have a fireplace that uses the same chimney ?
And does anything else use the same chimney? How many chimneys? Is the chimney lined or just bricks? If you don't know. Ask someone. Easy enough to find out. Buy a couple of battery operated carbon monoxide detectors. And place them throughout the house. You don't have to screw them to the ceiling or wall. Just place them on a shelf or table. Your local hardware store should have some. or A/mazon LINK About $15.00-$25.00 |
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If the odor is that bad you have a leak somewhere. You've checked the boiler, the stack pipe is sealed, that leaves the chimney. Get that checked, especially if it's an older chimney. Chimneys are required to have liners now, your's may not. If something settles or cracks the crack can allow flue gases into the house. Hold onto your wallet if that's the case.
The only thing puzzling me is that if the flue gasses are getting into your home, it should be setting off the CO monitor as there is CO present in those gasses. |
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I will add one thing (probably should have said this before, sorry!). The technician said, "I sure would like to look inside the boiler." But apparently two screws that give access to the boiler are fused and he didn't want to force them for fear of "making things worse." I'm probably not reporting this correctly, as to which part he was referring to. |
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ITD, the boiler is only 15 years old so hopefully not time for a new one. |
I know you said it is only 15 years old. Today’s boilers that’s a lifetime. We must also take into account its lack of yearly scheduled maintenance. Which will shorten its life. As I have said before, I hate to spend other’s money, but in this case I must.
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A cast iron boiler should last longer. I have an ultimate cast iron boiler that is over 30 years old and still going strong. Without pictures it's hard to really help from the internet. If your contractor thought there was danger they would condemn the boiler. But the issues you are talking about are not easy to live with. I hope you get it figured out and it doesn't cost you an arm and a leg. |
Chimney that old is probably not lined.
Even if it was, I bet it’s a mess, based on your history of “maintenance” ;) If you have CO detectors (I’d make sure you have a few) you can probably let it go until spring. You can have an inner liner put in. You should probably do that regardless. Not sure what was inspected where one person cut something away from the flame and yet didn’t see inside the boiler. You should replace the rotted pipes, tape might not be sealing good. They should have taken the top off boiler and brushed out the heat exchanger. This is the longest part of the job. Messy too. And critical. It’s common for bolts to rust up. They usually turn. If they snap, they can deal with it. Sounds like you need a better service company. When you said they tapped up the rotted holes on the flue pipe that was a red flag to me. For the record my 1996 house needed work on the liner !! |
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Post a picture of unit.
If unable to post a picture. Post the name and model number of boiler/furnace. |
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Originally Posted by mswlogo View Post If you have CO detectors (I’d make sure you have a few) Quote:
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Here are some photos. I have more if there's something specific you want to see. The service card is from the first technician. The second one didn't leave a service card.
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That's a good boiler. Time to try another technician.
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But yeah, they usually always state what nozzle they put in. It’s very odd technician said bolts were to rusted to remove. They typically don’t remove that large plate, just the burner. Dead River is good and fairly good size. I’d ask for someone more serious. How long was it not serviced for? Maybe it was so plugged up that a standard cleaning isn’t getting it all out. |
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I've had 3 oil burners over 40 years and 5-ish oil companies and have never seen an analyzer printout. In fact, I don't believe any of them had the equipment to printout anything on site. I'm not saying it's not a good thing to get, but I think you might have been a rare bird. |
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Over many decades, have had real good technicians do service/repairs wilst a few were absolutely useless. Another way to check source. Keep off for a long enough time to let all odors leave house. Then turn on or up thermostat to on. Start in basement and attempt to find where the odor is coming from. If not in basement. Do procedure again. Go to next floor and attempt to find where odor is coming from. Maybe find a friend, neighbor, relative to help "sniffing". On another note the Smith company no longer makes residential boilers. LINK There used to be some independent serivice people not affiliated with any oil/fuel company. Don't know of any right now. . |
Independent service companies
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Independent Service Professional
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Jorge Sanchez JLemosheating and AC jorgesanchez15@msn.com (603) 943-4535 |
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The metal exhaust vent going from boiler to chimney appears to have metal tape on it. Could be as simple as replacing that metal vent pipe. |
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Rhymes just bought Fred Fuller. |
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https://manchesterinklink.com/fred-f...es-bankruptcy/ Not really related to this thread, is it, since Fuller has been out of business for many years? |
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Now it may come out the holes if things are NOT running correctly. The holes he had before the tape, didn't appear overnight, but his smell problem did, that should be a hint. If the smell is coming from the furnace I suspect it's not firing up correctly. |
Fred Fuller
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We have used Eastern technicians since the changeover and have been satisfied with their service. Dave |
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Not until recently
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Dave |
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I have two service calls on my bill now: annual cleaning plus 2nd visit when the smoke odor continued. Doesn't it seem like I should call back the same company and get them to fix the problem, instead of calling another company? And get the flue pipe replaced right away? I emailed the service manager a few days ago; no reply. I'll call again tomorrow.
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I doubt replacing that pipe will solve it so I would not focus on that to much. They should know the root cause and not guessing. |
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