Investment Options ?
 

I'm looking for investment options in today's crazy times....

Stock market - Forget It !
Bonds - Nope !
Gold & Precious Metals - Can't take a gold bar to Wal-Mart or Hannaford
Annuities - Long term, and big penalties if withdrawn before maturity

Which leaves real estate ! Not interested in residential housing or commercial.
I'm thinking of residential land, because God's not making anymore :)
I realize that land is not really liquid asset, but in today's market, it could turn-over in a reasonable time-frame if I needed to cash-out. By reasonable time-frame, I mean within 6-12 months.

My money is losing money just sitting in the bank, and with the expectation that inflation will most likely be with us for the next several years, I figure real estate is my best bet to hedge against the eroding dollar and interest rates.

No plans to rush into purchasing, but if the opportunity rises you have to strike when the iron is hot !

This said, what towns' around the lake are most appealing for investment opportunities ?

Bitcoin.
Ethereum.
Assorted alt coins

I won't presume to tell you how to invest, but one gigantic difference between real estate as you describe it, and a typical buy and hold portfolio of equity and debt index funds from someplace like Vanguard or Fidelity, is that the real estate requires a huge amount of work. It's as much a hobby or part time job as it is an investment. This could be a plus or a minus, depending on your interests

This guy/gal gets it…. Tons of money to be made

Investing is an extremely personal subject. People have different levels of security and risk and age also is a major factor. Taking into account all these factors plus the economy the best plan is usually a balanced and diverse portfolio which will help you weather the fluctuations of the economy. A little is the market a little in bonds and a little in real estate plus always keep an acceptable level of cash liquid.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Not according to Jamie Dimon:

"Say what you want about JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon, but he's consistent about his disdain for bitcoin.

Dimon once again attacked the top cryptocurrency, calling it "worthless" during a virtual summit Monday.
"I personally think bitcoin is worthless, but I don't want to be a spokesperson," he said during a virtual appearance at the Institute of International Finance Meeting before adding, "I don't care, it makes no difference to me. I don't think people should smoke cigarettes."

Quite a bit worse. Unlike a REIT that has a portfolio with some diversified risk, a single property - raw land - has heavy acquisition costs, liquidation costs, and heavy carrying costs.

Unless you have enough land to hunt, snowmobile, or harvest, land is pretty boring. I think I'd rather see something that lets me have fun with my grandchildren. A collection of pinball machines, for example. Or maybe a nice triple cockpit antique speedboat? Antique or classic cars can be fun and profitable.
There are real estate projects that give better leverage than vacant land and generate some cash flow too. I have a friend who has done well with self storage--No tenant has ever called with a plumbing problem on a weekend or holiday. Same with boat slips--prices and rents are still climbing, and tenants don't call with problems. Rents are paid annually, (at least at MVYC) so no problem with late payers.

Have fun.

Old standbys: collectible art, oriental rugs, jewelry, Race/stud horses.

Land is probably one if the riskiest things.
Stock market, investing conservatively, is a pretty good bet.

Descant, good point about self storage. Big money in that.

I would say that if I was their biggest competitor also with the intent of Bitcoin to put them out of business… one thing that’s undeniable is that people have made money off of it. alot of money. My self included. Invest how you feel is safe but don’t overlook this space to park some cash.

Investing
 

That's a loaded question. I good financial advisor that is independent of any investment firm is a good start. Try your bank or credit union.

Check to see if there is a local investment club. Usually, a bunch of people pool together their resources and form a nice portfolio that changes as the market indicates. There has been a lot of success!

As for me, I have been extremely lucky to invest in defense contracts stocks. Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, Boeing, etc. Great dividend yield as well as long-term growth.

For the short term, the last niche was cannabis stocks. That was a wild but fun ride. I switch all stocks to cannabis ETF until I find another growth opportunity.

As for land, high upfront cost, unless you sit on it for a loooong time. Consider REIT, but it is risky.

Note, there is no sound

https://youtu.be/E7KQwBWJ7i0

spot on
 

IMHO, land is a terrible choice. carrying costs and lack of liquidity make it a nonstarter. you discount stocks out of hand and I don't know why. over the long run, stock index funds are tough to beat and completely liquid with essentially zero cost as vanguard has index funds with mgmt fees under .1%. SWTSX is vanguard's total market index and is a good place to start. obviously no assurances can be made but given the choices it's probably the most logical.

oh and crypto is a complete casino. good luck with that in ten years.

Diversification is key
 

Don’t put all your eggs in one basket. It’s also very important to recognize cycles when making a decision. Real estate values are at a peak right now, And like you said about gold you cannot take a piece of real estate to Walmart.

Cryptocurrency is extremely volatile and with so many new ones coming up on a daily basis very risky. It’s Fiat currency!!! There has never been a fiat currency survive through time.

Do you hope to make money with your investment or hope to preserve capital? I like silver. 10oz bullion bars. It’s a tangible asset, and an industrial metal, so there will always be demand. I will always accept them in exchange for A bottle of booze or a bar tab

Land creates no cash flow...And you'll have to pay a yearly tax.

Your first step is to do a self-analysis on your tolerance for risk. What is your time frame? Time is extremely important.

Look at the historical return of any investment over time.

Diversity and time are key.

When I first moved to San Fran, I went to an open house in Pacific Heights...An incredible mansion for sale for $125,000. I was making $600/month and thought I'd never be able to buy real estate there....Every real estate "bubble" has historically fell by the wayside (factoring time) as values continue to rise. Today that house would sell for around $10 million.

Is there an R.E. bubble today? Probably, but what about the factor of time?

Stock market?...Look at a time table...

On December 1, 1984 the S&P 500 was 181.14. Today it's at 4,363.33.

I tend to be a contrarian when I invest. I don't buy stock when everyone else is buying, I buy when it's being sold off.

I bought an apartment building in San Fran when interest rates were "floating" at 18% in 1981 and no one was buying. Best investment I could have made at age 30.

A good well diversified portfolio, a steady hand in not making rash or large moves based on market conditions, plus time is the key to success. Simple as that. Disciplined investors are rewarded. Everyone else that does exotic investments and chase trends take huge risks. Sometimes it works, often times it doesn't.

As so many above have echoed, land would be a really poor choice for what you described. You quickly say you don't want residential or commercial real estate, but they are the best long term bet IMO if you wanted to put money into RE. I include boat slips or self storage or car washes in the commercial category, all are interesting investments.

Otherwise, like Broadhopper suggested, I'd recommend getting a well regarded investment adviser. They will listen to your needs, risk tolerance, look at your current asset mix, and advise accordingly.

I absolutely agree with a well graded investment advisor. However I will try to stay away from the advisers employed by banks or credit unions as they tend to be very transient. I would recommend instead of going to a particular brokerage retaining in money manager. Money manager fees tend to be higher than brokerages but your returns are usually exponentially better


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

whAt towns?
 

Did I miss the answers? The OP asked about which towns might have good opportunities, and we all went off about why we don't like real estate. : suspect, without doing my own research, that if you get a town or two away from Winnipesaukee, there are some good opportunities to buy a parcel of say, 50-100 acres, take it through the sub division approval process and then sell to a developer. Still a lot of up front costs, but you don't pay the land use change tax until actually sold. You might be able to harvest. I'd look at the Barnsteads, which have, I think, nine lakes.

Realtor.com lists 25 acrss in Barnstead fore $165K and 127 acres in Belmont for $250K.

Why not "think locally" and invest in local projects, assuming you can find them?

Because the OP stated they were not looking in those directions.
They stated they were looking to real estate. REIT is the closest you can come in real estate to investing in a comparable stock or bond fund.

Buying a PIECE of land is like buying a SINGLE Stock.

Google luck with that.

REIT isn't a single stock. It is a portfolio of properties... like buying a stock fund.

I wasn’t referring to REIT’s, sorry my post wasn’t directed at the later part of your post.

REIT’s is a good suggestion.

I have a gorgeous piece of land in Moultonborough. Everything is for sale for the right price :D

With your savings held in a .... https://www.mvsb.com/personal/deposit-rates/ .... personal deposit savings account your money is safe but you basically make little to NO INTEREST on your deposited savings money.

So, is best to keep the money in the bank and drive your car to 300,000-miles or longer, and buy all your clothes for $3.20/shirt at the https://www.stvdplaconia.org ...... Tuesday opening at 10-am is 30%-off for seniors, day! Plus, stay away from restaurants!

Nobody has discussed whether the land will be financed or bought out right. Typically, banks don’t like to finance land and if they do the LTV is low, maybe 50% to a well qualified buyer. As others have noted there is no cash flow but there are expenses such as real estate taxes and P&I payments. What is your desire OP?

I would think that a loan's interest would negate ROI unless keeping it for a lonnng time, especially given the currently elevated prices.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

The REIT would still be better. More diversified, lower carry costs, and lower acquisition costs.

Walmart stock pays a nice dividend.

Only if you pay very close attention to the composition of the REIT. Anything that is heavily invested in "commercial" property I would be very scared of. Office and retail property is probably not a winner long term with online shopping and hybrid or full on remote working becoming more prevalent.

Holdings in that space are everything when assessing the overall risk vs reward.

Foam noodle stock is always a wise investment.

REIT's are required to pay out 90% of income in dividends. In a bull market, this leaves little extra for investing in new properties and organic growth, so the per share value may suffer. The dividends may be a good part of a diversified portfolio, but an REIT overweight portfolio may not be a good idea. Actually as an aggressive but diversified investor, I can't think of anyplace I would put a majority of my money in a single type of investment, especially as the lead component. BUT, no risk, no reward. My father always told me to take risks early in life "because you can always make it back".

Different perspective: ~45 years ago my sister and BIL bought 600 acres. ASAP, they sold 400 and had minimal $$ exposure on the remaining 200 acres. Tree farmers. They moved onto the land from away 25 years ago. In future, my niece will inherit and plans to move here. To them, this was a great "investment". Maybe we all need to re-think "investment" and think about our grandchildren instead of ourselves.

If you look at a one year chart for WMT, it looks like it has done a double top and could be heading down from it's current price, so now is the time to go SHORT on WMT.

On the other hand, if it goes back up you can get stopped out and loose big ..... and be left with nothing except your old foam swim noodles ..... :eek:!!!

If this property is in NH, one thing to be careful of is the long term holding of the property in question. Since NH lacks any broad based tax and relies solely on property taxes, this eventually will become a big problem for realestate investors. Especially those that are holding property in a reduced or tax deferred status, such as a tree farm or current use. It is no surprise that the pressure to develop and need to feed the insatiable appetite for local and state spending will put pressure on these programs to either reduce their advantage or simply get rid of them. It seems that there is a always something about these being discussed which if you read the tea leaves probably means it is not a matter of if but when that advantage is gone.

So from my point of view NH is for the most part a toxic place to invest in realestate due to the unpredictable carrying costs of property taxes. Not that it doesn't exist elsewhere but it is far more acute here that any oscillation in spending directly hits property owners and without regard to the impact of the person's ability to pay. Therefore many properties such as the one described even if owned outright may be lost for no other reason than the tax burden becomes to great. Of course nobody really cares that multigenerational properties are lost in this manner, only that there is somebody ready and willing to buy and take over the increased tax burden willingly. It is a sad but vicious cycle, but as they say, that is what they call "progress".

Bingo! Why the Walmart side of the lake will become another 'Miami'.

Not that simple.
 

Being taxed out of your home applies to any owned real estate, not just woodlots. Towns benefit from timber tax as well as property tax. The owner of a single family home in a neighborhood is more susceptible than the wood lot owner whose property produces some sustainable level of income. Many woodlots are part of various conservation easements, giving additional protection.

In NH, 10 acres and more, can be taxed at a reduced rate, if declared "current Use"; Google it.

An additional reduction, if declared recreational use, in current use; e.g., letting snowmobilers go thru the property, etc.

You can restrict motorized vehicles and still claim current use with the low tax rate.

Actual Example for "current use":
Bought three years ago, 34 acres in Moultonborough that was in "current use" and annual town property tax was $24; not a typo ... twenty four dollars per year for 34 acres on land.

Took out of current use, a little under 2 acres for new-build house and driveway from the 34 acres. Was Taxed 10% of the assessed value of the just under 2 acres, and the rest on the property was still current use with very low tax rate.

On-going tax rate reflects just under 2 acres at regular assessed tax rate and balance of the 34 acres tax at the low current use rate.

Anyone with ten or more acres of vacant land should be looking at "current use", to pay a very reduced annual town tax.

Maxum's point is those generous programs may disappear.

I know half a dozen families that were "taxed" out of their home in NH over the years. And I know several planning on it. They know they can't afford to stay after they retire. I don't know of any in MA.

This phenomenon is often misunderstood or overstated. First, many communities have programs designed to let strapped seniors slide on taxes until their house is sold in the future. Second, although many reverse mortgages have been shown to be predatory, today there are reasonable and fair reverse mortgages that allow people to pull equity out of their homes.

Individuals need to do their own homework here, not rely on rando posters (like me). But if an older person's real goal is to stay in their beloved home, there are options available. Of course, if folks are looking at a massive run up in value, and they want the cash, that's cool too. But it's not being taxed out of one's nest.