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TiltonBB 04-16-2021 05:40 AM

NH Mask Mandates
 
1 Attachment(s)
This should make the summer even busier!

TiltonBB 04-16-2021 08:57 AM

I don't think the point is the vaccine availability. The article, and the headline, is about masks, not vaccines.

Many people will want to flee Maskachusetts for mask free New Hampshire.

WinnisquamZ 04-16-2021 09:04 AM

Portsmouth, Nashua, and Hanover have all extended the mask mandate until June 30. Believe, other popular towns will follow. Curious what approach each local business here in the lakes region takes


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Biggd 04-16-2021 09:45 AM

Already got an email from Common Man saying all their properties will still require employee's, customers, and service people to be wearing masks.

WinnisquamZ 04-16-2021 09:51 AM

Unfortunately, many will be selecting where to shop and dine


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FlyingScot 04-16-2021 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ (Post 353741)
Unfortunately, many will be selecting where to shop and dine


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I agree. Paradoxically, this will increase stress levels for many businesses as some customers steer clear of mask-free places, and some other customers are irked at masked places.

Biggd 04-16-2021 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ (Post 353741)
Unfortunately, many will be selecting where to shop and dine


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Well I hope it keeps some people out of Lago's, my favorite place.
We tried to get in Saturday night and it was 1 1/2 wait.

WinnisquamZ 04-16-2021 12:07 PM

Vaccinations
 
Believe after May 7 the occupancy limit is lifted so wait time will decrease. But, limited waitstaff hires will limit occupancy. It’s crazy stuff going on here in the Lakes Region. I see little changing with his lifting on the mask mandate as many local businesses and town will add a mask mandate.


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camp guy 04-16-2021 07:40 PM

Lifting mask mandate
 
Lifting the mask mandate is crazy logic. New Hampshire is experiencing increases in COVID, and lifting the mask mandate in the face of increasing COVID is just plain wrong. Just exactly what is so wrong about wearing a mask?

Of course there are times when it isn't feasible, but, by and large, wearing a mask is hardly an imposition, especially in light of the protection is provides and in light of the possible ill effects (pun intended) of not wearing a mask.

People wear warm clothes in the winter to keep warm because being cold is not good for you, and people wear sun tan lotion in the summer to protect themselves because too much sun isn't good for you, so why not wear a mask when out and about to protect your respiratory system (and, to some extent, that of your neighbor).

WinnisquamZ 04-16-2021 08:19 PM

No one is stopping you from wearing a mask. Assume you have been vaccinated, so what is your concern? As of Monday everyone who wants to be vaccinated in NH can be, so I ask again. What is your concern?


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mswlogo 04-16-2021 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camp guy (Post 353754)
Lifting the mask mandate is crazy logic. New Hampshire is experiencing increases in COVID, and lifting the mask mandate in the face of increasing COVID is just plain wrong. Just exactly what is so wrong about wearing a mask?

Of course there are times when it isn't feasible, but, by and large, wearing a mask is hardly an imposition, especially in light of the protection is provides and in light of the possible ill effects (pun intended) of not wearing a mask.

People wear warm clothes in the winter to keep warm because being cold is not good for you, and people wear sun tan lotion in the summer to protect themselves because too much sun isn't good for you, so why not wear a mask when out and about to protect your respiratory system (and, to some extent, that of your neighbor).

I totally agree, it's stupid to lift the mandate this early.

Have you seen the numbers in NH?
Infection rate is double what it was in early March.

Only 27% are vaccinated in NH.

Hey, if I see restaurants THAT I HAVE BEEN GOING TO, having staff with no masks, I won't be going there any more.

I totally felt safer in NH last summer. Right now, I feel safer in MA (even though they similarly pulled some stupid moves too).

mcdude 04-17-2021 09:55 AM

My concern is......
 
5,800 "breakthrough" cases so far among those who have been fully vaccinated. 73% of the population hasn't even been vaccinated yet. There's still a long road ahead.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...lly-protective

CooperS7777 04-17-2021 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camp guy (Post 353754)
Lifting the mask mandate is crazy logic. New Hampshire is experiencing increases in COVID, and lifting the mask mandate in the face of increasing COVID is just plain wrong. Just exactly what is so wrong about wearing a mask?

Of course there are times when it isn't feasible, but, by and large, wearing a mask is hardly an imposition, especially in light of the protection is provides and in light of the possible ill effects (pun intended) of not wearing a mask.

People wear warm clothes in the winter to keep warm because being cold is not good for you, and people wear sun tan lotion in the summer to protect themselves because too much sun isn't good for you, so why not wear a mask when out and about to protect your respiratory system (and, to some extent, that of your neighbor).

The difference is, we don't have sun tan mandates in the summer time or sweatshirt mandates in the spring or fall. Everyone in the state is now eligible for the vaccine, and a lift of the mandate does not prevent anyone who is not comfortable with vaccination alone from continuing to wear a mask.

WinnisquamZ 04-17-2021 07:56 PM

Haven’t left the house today. Anyone visit local establishments with or without the mask?


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mswlogo 04-18-2021 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CooperS7777 (Post 353801)
The difference is, we don't have sun tan mandates in the summer time or sweatshirt mandates in the spring or fall. Everyone in the state is now eligible for the vaccine, and a lift of the mandate does not prevent anyone who is not comfortable with vaccination alone from continuing to wear a mask.

Wearing a mask isn’t just about protecting yourself. It’s about protecting the community around you.

My wife made a good point. If a restaurant even decides to continue having its staff wear masks and now half the patrons won’t wear them we’re not going in with our masks on. And I guarantee we are not alone in our thinking. This lifting of mandate will hurt some businesses more than help.

Vaccines and masks are not a guarantee. But the more EVERYONE wears them, and the more that get vaccinated the better the statistics get and the sooner we’ll put the fire out.

My work place is in NH. Actually near the hot spots in NH. With mandate I felt safe occasionally going in. Everyone had masks and was being careful. Now I feel less safe and I won’t go in as often. It’s having the reverse effect lifting the mandate before the storm is over.

Biggd 04-18-2021 09:01 AM

I have no problem with still wearing a mask indoors but I will be happy to have it off my face when walking around out doors.
I have seasonal allergies and it's no fun when your nose is running and you have a mask on.

TKD 04-18-2021 09:02 AM

We will now go out and spend more. Sick of the paranoid nonsense and the hysteria. People can live in their bubble and should stay away if they don’t feel safe. Everyone’s free will. I’ll FINALLY be able to exercise mine again.


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Seaplane Pilot 04-18-2021 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKD (Post 353826)
We will now go out and spend more. Sick of the paranoid nonsense and the hysteria. People can live in their bubble and should stay away if they don’t feel safe. Everyone’s free will. I’ll FINALLY be able to exercise mine again.


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Spot on. Anyone who wants to wear a mask has the right to do so. You can also wear a pink Tyvek suit if you wish, no problem with me. But stop trying to force mask guilt on those that have opposing views. I’ll wear my mask on Halloween, and that’s about it.

Biggd 04-18-2021 10:31 AM

I don't feel any less free when wearing a mask. :)

FlyingScot 04-18-2021 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top-Water (Post 353829)
Well said "Sick of the paranoid nonsense". not that you should not take some care but a lot of it is was overblown to fill up empty media pages and frighten people.

It was "overblown" to try to prevent 500,000 American deaths

fatlazyless 04-18-2021 10:37 AM

As 35th President of the U.S.A, 44-year old John F Kennedy, said on January 20, 1960 at his inauguration day acceptance speech: MASK not what your country can do for you - MASK what you can do for your country! ..... :D

President Kennedy went on to say: Yes, my fellow Americans ..... if ONE mask is a good thing ...... then wearing TWO masks is a very, very good thing! ....... so's let us continue forward with our mask program ...... here .... and wear a mask, indoors, at a store or a public venue with other people around and about ...... moving forward with the ongoing pandemic ...... is still needed and necessary to mask-up in public! ... :patriot:

FlyingScot 04-18-2021 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKD (Post 353826)
We will now go out and spend more. Sick of the paranoid nonsense and the hysteria. People can live in their bubble and should stay away if they don’t feel safe. Everyone’s free will. I’ll FINALLY be able to exercise mine again.


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One funny thing about "hysteria"--it seems like every time there is a first-time poster on the Forum, his first post is some sort of extremist position attacking sensible covid mitigation efforts. One might conclude that it is a regular poster who does not want to use his "real" fake name. Pretty lame

mswlogo 04-18-2021 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiltonBB (Post 353725)
This should make the summer even busier!

Yeah. Busier hospitals, care givers and funeral homes for sure.

MotorHead 04-18-2021 10:43 AM

I am so sorry to wish this but I would LOVE to see one or all of you on a ventilator. I am sure you would change your tune.

mswlogo 04-18-2021 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingScot (Post 353831)
It was "overblown" to try to prevent 500,000 American deaths

I’ll still wear a mask for those that think it was overblown even though they won’t do the same for me and my family.

barefootbay 04-18-2021 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcdude (Post 353784)
5,800 "breakthrough" cases so far among those who have been fully vaccinated. 73% of the population hasn't even been vaccinated yet. There's still a long road ahead.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...lly-protective

I think those numbers represent a really low percentage when one considers the millions of people who have been vaccinated.
There is no such thing in this life as a zero risk for anything. If you are fully vaccinated consider yourself immune because the odds are overwhelmingly high that you are.

FlyingScot 04-18-2021 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barefootbay (Post 353837)
I think those numbers represent a really low percentage when one considers the millions of people who have been vaccinated.
There is no such thing in this life as a zero risk for anything. If you are fully vaccinated consider yourself immune because the odds are overwhelmingly high that you are.

Yes, vaccine is extraordinarily effective for most interactions, like restaurants, grocery stores, etc. But if you're interested in baseball games, rock concerts, and other mass events, protection is likely not nearly as good until many more people are vaxxed. I used to attend a couple of music events/month, I really miss them.

Flylady 04-18-2021 12:18 PM

Raising Cases
 
A year ago the NH cry was keep out those MA-holes who will infect us....stay home!

Seasonal residents came earlier and stayed longer...supporting the local economies

Throughout the summer cases were primarily in larger metro areas and along the MA boarder.

Come fall...seasonals retreat, and anti maskers are more vocal in the Lakes Region.

By December many many more covid outbreaks in areas where mask mandates were ignored

By April 2021 small towns continue to see increases in covid cases.

So now that restaurants are opening, I am guessing they will continue to require masks as those out of state seasonals return, with masks and or vaccinated. It will be for the protection of their employees and business.

Outdoorsman 04-18-2021 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ (Post 353802)
Haven’t left the house today. Anyone visit local establishments with or without the mask?


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I went to Walmart, Shaws and a couple of other stores today. Though I wasn't really checking to see if people were wearing masks, for some reason I noticed a lot of people at Shaws that were NOT wearing masks.

I am thinking that I only noticed because it seemed odd to actually see peoples faces.

TKD 04-18-2021 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingScot (Post 353833)
One funny thing about "hysteria"--it seems like every time there is a first-time poster on the Forum, his first post is some sort of extremist position attacking sensible covid mitigation efforts. One might conclude that it is a regular poster who does not want to use his "real" fake name. Pretty lame

Disagree with you and we are all extremists? Case in point - the hypocrisy is pathetic

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swnoel 04-18-2021 02:14 PM

Great news for sure... unfortunately it seems some that have been caged don't want to be free. For those fearing ... stay at your homes in hiding while the rest of the state goes about their business.

Seaplane Pilot 04-18-2021 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swnoel (Post 353846)
Great news for sure... unfortunately it seems some that have been caged don't want to be free. For those fearing ... stay at your homes in hiding while the rest of the state goes about their business.

What you’ve described is similar to the Stockholm Syndrome. Hard to believe.

Flylady 04-18-2021 06:47 PM

Another perspective
 
Perhaps there are more people that feel by wearing masks when appropriate will help the greater good to get back to normal. Also there is that variant factor which like so much about this virus is new and long term impact is really not known. Verses people that are only concerned about their personal choice and rights.

Seaplane Pilot 04-18-2021 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flylady (Post 353854)
Perhaps there are more people that feel by wearing masks when appropriate will help the greater good to get back to normal. Also there is that variant factor which like so much about this virus is new and long term impact is really not known. Verses people that are only concerned about their personal choice and rights.

What if masks don’t actually serve the purpose for which you’ve been led to believe they do?

Biggd 04-18-2021 07:14 PM

If you believe that, I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot (Post 353856)
What if masks don’t actually serve the purpose for which you’ve been led to believe they do?

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Seaplane Pilot 04-18-2021 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggd (Post 353858)
If you believe that, I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.

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Ok, I’ll bite. Where’s the proof? There are plenty of esteemed medical professionals that have clearly stated that mask wearing is useless against coronavirus. And I’m sure your side can quote medical professionals that will state they do work. So who’s right and who’s not?

mswlogo 04-18-2021 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swnoel (Post 353846)
Great news for sure... unfortunately it seems some that have been caged don't want to be free. For those fearing ... stay at your homes in hiding while the rest of the state goes about their business.

Wearing a mask isn't being caged.

Being on a ventilator and drugged to unconsciousness is being "caged".

Yes, I'd like to avoid the later :)

Garcia 04-18-2021 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot (Post 353860)
Ok, I’ll bite. Where’s the proof? There are plenty of esteemed medical professionals that have clearly stated that mask wearing is useless against coronavirus. And I’m sure your side can quote medical professionals that will state they do work. So who’s right and who’s not?

Not so much a response but rather a question. I have been reading about this issue on the forum for a year. Over the course of the year, has anyone changed his/her mind about masks? Seems the same people are arguing the same points over and over.

Biggd 04-18-2021 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot (Post 353860)
Ok, I’ll bite. Where’s the proof? There are plenty of esteemed medical professionals that have clearly stated that mask wearing is useless against coronavirus. And I’m sure your side can quote medical professionals that will state they do work. So who’s right and who’s not?

I have a daughter that's an RN. She's exposed to Covid patients every day. She told me just tonight that she wears an N95 mask with a disposable paper mask over that along with a face shield. She replaces the paper mask every day and the N95 mask every other day. She's been doing this for the past year with on going negative Covid tests.
Either she is very lucky or she's doing everything right.
She also said we had a very lite flu season because of social distancing and masks this past winter.
The biggest issue is most people don't wear the proper mask or don't wear the one they have properly. Not all masks are created equal.
Medical facilities have been using N95 masks for ever, way before we saw Covid. But I guess they just wear them to look professional.:rolleye1:

Seaplane Pilot 04-18-2021 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia (Post 353863)
Not so much a response but rather a question. I have been reading about this issue on the forum for a year. Over the course of the year, has anyone changed his/her mind about masks? Seems the same people are arguing the same points over and over.

Yes, I agree with you.

FlyingScot 04-18-2021 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot (Post 353867)
Yes, I agree with you.

I agree too. No one seems to have changed their minds on masks and social distancing.

Although the people who argued against masks and social distancing a year ago were also saying this will blow over quickly without big public health consequences. With 500,000 dead, we can all see now that there have been gigantic public health consequences.

LoveLakeLife 04-18-2021 08:22 PM

I wonder how many of the 550K dead were mask-wearers.

It’s a flu.


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thinkxingu 04-18-2021 08:34 PM

Masks work, there's no question about it at this point. And to minimize the almost 600k dead from Covid as "a flu" given that it's at least 10x deadlier even after incredibly aggressive mitigation methods were taken this last year is ridiculous.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2776536

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mswlogo 04-19-2021 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot (Post 353860)
Ok, I’ll bite. Where’s the proof? There are plenty of esteemed medical professionals that have clearly stated that mask wearing is useless against coronavirus. And I’m sure your side can quote medical professionals that will state they do work. So who’s right and who’s not?

These type arguments are so stupid it’s ridiculous.

Ok, say mask wearers are wrong?
But we wear them to be overly cautious. What happens?
You wear a mask for 6 more months, waste $50, look silly and you can’t itch your nose so easy. All for nothing.

What if the mask wearers are right?
And we abandon wearing them now when we know they are effective.
Another 500K or more people die than could have been prevented.

Tough choice isn’t it?

LoveLakeLife 04-19-2021 04:30 AM

It’s not a tough choice at all. If you want to keep looking ridiculous and try to display for all your sense of virtuous self-regard, keep wearing the mask for the rest of your life. For normal people the choice is simple, especially those who’ve been vaccinated: act normal, ditch the silliness, and live life.


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Biggd 04-19-2021 06:25 AM

Is that all you're worried about, "looking ridiculous"? We all know that looking good is much more important than feeling good?
Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveLakeLife (Post 353873)
It’s not a tough choice at all. If you want to keep looking ridiculous and try to display for all your sense of virtuous self-regard, keep wearing the mask for the rest of your life. For normal people the choice is simple, especially those who’ve been vaccinated: act normal, ditch the silliness, and live life.


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LoveLakeLife 04-19-2021 07:20 AM

People get sick all the time. It’s a flu. Granted, worse than is typical, but a flu. Theatrics and feigned incredulity don’t make it otherwise.


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MotorHead 04-19-2021 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveLakeLife (Post 353883)
People get sick all the time. It’s a flu. Granted, worse than is typical, but a flu. Theatrics and feigned incredulity don’t make it otherwise.


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You can't fix stupid.

Biggd 04-19-2021 07:49 AM

Winter is flu season. Covid has no season. It's with us year round.
Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveLakeLife (Post 353883)
People get sick all the time. It’s a flu. Granted, worse than is typical, but a flu. Theatrics and feigned incredulity don’t make it otherwise.


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mswlogo 04-19-2021 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggd (Post 353875)
Is that all you're worried about, "looking ridiculous"? We all know that looking good is much more important than feeling good?

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Says a lot doesn't. Probably more worried about the tan lines.
Talk about living free. I could care less what it looks like. That's freedom.

They live in FEAR of what people think they look like.

Newbiesaukee 04-19-2021 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveLakeLife (Post 353873)
It’s not a tough choice at all. If you want to keep looking ridiculous and try to display for all your sense of virtuous self-regard, keep wearing the mask for the rest of your life. For normal people the choice is simple, especially those who’ve been vaccinated: act normal, ditch the silliness, and live life.


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If you’ve been vaccinated I don’t care what you do about masks. I don’t care about you call “silly” or what you consider “normal.” You are entitled to whatever you wish to think or say.

It’s the unvaccinated who are the problem. And it is the unvaccinated who may prevent any return to normalcy.

FlyingScot 04-19-2021 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newbiesaukee (Post 353891)
If you’ve been vaccinated I don’t care what you do about masks. I don’t care about you call “silly” or what you consider “normal.” You are entitled to whatever you wish to think or say.

It’s the unvaccinated who are the problem. And it is the unvaccinated who may prevent any return to normalcy.

Sort of. I agree that a vaccinated person is of no risk to another vaccinated person, and that the real problem will be unvaccinated people.

But one issue you can see from this thread is that certain people are caused deep physical or psychic pain (haha) by doing anything that acknowledges covid's danger. This tears society between the covid-conscious and the deniers. And there are still 100MM(?) Americans waiting in line for vaccines. I'm happy to stay masked a while longer out of respect/support for those in line. Though in another couple of months, I'll have no patience for those too stupid to have protected themselves

Newbiesaukee 04-19-2021 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingScot (Post 353893)
Sort of. I agree that a vaccinated person is of no risk to another vaccinated person, and that the real problem will be unvaccinated people.

But one issue you can see from this thread is that certain people are caused deep physical or psychic pain (haha) by doing anything that acknowledges covid's danger. This tears society between the covid-conscious and the deniers. And there are still 100MM(?) Americans waiting in line for vaccines. I'm happy to stay masked a while longer out of respect/support for those in line. Though in another couple of months, I'll have no patience for those too stupid to have protected themselves

I agree with you. But, I inferred from LoveLakeLife that he/she was not against vaccination and believed it had value. Perhaps LLL is vaccinated. If all the anti-maskers were vaccinated I don’t care as much about the rest of the stuff.

I also believe that masks do have a place and still wear them even after vaccinated. But this forum doesn’t need another discussion to persuade the unpersuadable.

LoveLakeLife 04-19-2021 10:18 AM

Yes I’m vaccinated. Everyone should get vaccinated. But I never wore or owned a mask. I lived. And I had gotten sick I would have lived.

P.S. it’s “couldn’t care less” not “could care less. As far as “you can’t fix stupid” goes, apparently trite cliches can’t be avoided by the unoriginal.


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MotorHead 04-19-2021 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveLakeLife (Post 353896)
Yes I’m vaccinated. Everyone should get vaccinated. But I never wore or owned a mask. I lived. And I had gotten sick I would have lived.

P.S. it’s “couldn’t care less” not “could care less. As far as “you can’t fix stupid” goes, apparently trite cliches can’t be avoided by the unoriginal.


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Biggd 04-19-2021 11:53 AM

You may think you don't look ridiculous but you are proving otherwise.
Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveLakeLife (Post 353896)
Yes I’m vaccinated. Everyone should get vaccinated. But I never wore or owned a mask. I lived. And I had gotten sick I would have lived.

P.S. it’s “couldn’t care less” not “could care less. As far as “you can’t fix stupid” goes, apparently trite cliches can’t be avoided by the unoriginal.


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jbolty 04-19-2021 12:15 PM

There is not a hint of any science showing that mask wearing among the general population does anything at all to limit covid transmission, actually the opposite and causes other problems. Early on even Saint Fauci stated in an accidentaly moment of honesty that masks could do more harm than good becasue people constantly fidgit with them, touch their face a lot, wear them wrong and reuse them too much. This makes logical common sense and there is science to back it up. I challenge anyone to come up with an actual scientific study showing masks do any good in public. "it can't hurt" is not science.

A Stanford/National institute of health study details the actual facts. This will not get wide publication because the power structure wants masks to be an object of control as well as a handy thing to blame any surge in cases on. Never mind that the southern border is wide open with untested thousands flooding over and then being let loose or transported around the country. No, cases are up because people are not wearing masks. Of course the truthfulness of the actual numbers is another topic for a different discussion.

read the whole thing here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7680614/


summary

Quote:

Many countries across the globe utilized medical and non-medical facemasks as non-pharmaceutical intervention for reducing the transmission and infectivity of coronavirus disease-2019 (COVID-19). Although, scientific evidence supporting facemasks’ efficacy is lacking, adverse physiological, psychological and health effects are established. Is has been hypothesized that facemasks have compromised safety and efficacy profile and should be avoided from use. The current article comprehensively summarizes scientific evidences with respect to wearing facemasks in the COVID-19 era, providing prosper information for public health and decisions making.
The study concludes

Quote:

The existing scientific evidences challenge the safety and efficacy of wearing facemask as preventive intervention for COVID-19. The data suggest that both medical and non-medical facemasks are ineffective to block human-to-human transmission of viral and infectious disease such SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19, supporting against the usage of facemasks. Wearing facemasks has been demonstrated to have substantial adverse physiological and psychological effects. These include hypoxia, hypercapnia, shortness of breath, increased acidity and toxicity, activation of fear and stress response, rise in stress hormones, immunosuppression, fatigue, headaches, decline in cognitive performance, predisposition for viral and infectious illnesses, chronic stress, anxiety and depression. Long-term consequences of wearing facemask can cause health deterioration, developing and progression of chronic diseases and premature death. Governments, policy makers and health organizations should utilize prosper and scientific evidence-based approach with respect to wearing facemasks, when the latter is considered as preventive intervention for public health.

thinkxingu 04-19-2021 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbolty (Post 353900)
There is not a hint of any science showing that mask wearing among the general population does anything at all to limit covid transmission, actually the opposite and causes other problems. Early on even Saint Fauci stated in an accidentaly moment of honesty that masks could do more harm than good becasue people constantly fidgit with them, touch their face a lot, wear them wrong and reuse them too much. This makes logical common sense and there is science to back it up. I challenge anyone to come up with an actual scientific study showing masks do any good in public. "it can't hurt" is not science.

A Stanford/National institute of health study details the actual facts. This will not get wide publication because the power structure wants masks to be an object of control as well as a handy thing to blame any surge in cases on. Never mind that the southern border is wide open with untested thousands flooding over and then being let loose or transported around the country. No, cases are up because people are not wearing masks. Of course the truthfulness of the actual numbers is another topic for a different discussion.

read the whole thing here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7680614/


summary



The study concludes

A quick search for that author/article came up with—this is awesome—a "how-to" thread on teaching students steps to spot misleading/deceptive/untrue resources.

https://www.amgenbiotechexperience.c...rily-believing

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jbolty 04-19-2021 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinkxingu (Post 353901)
A quick search for that author/article came up with—this is awesome—a "how-to" thread on teaching students steps to spot misleading/deceptive/untrue resources.

https://www.amgenbiotechexperience.c...rily-believing

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It's from a government website. Or do you only beleve the government when it suits you?

thinkxingu 04-19-2021 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbolty (Post 353902)
It's from a government website. Or do you only beleve the government when it suits you?

I research most things, especially articles with "hypothesis" in the title that go against the WHO, CDC, and most every other health/science organization.

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FlyingScot 04-19-2021 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbolty (Post 353900)
There is not a hint of any science showing that mask wearing among the general population does anything at all to limit covid transmissions

You must have missed Think's post #44 above--he links to an article in the Journal of the American Medical Assoc that documents the evidence

Flylady 04-19-2021 02:01 PM

Mask Do Not Work?
 
So for those who do not believe they do not work...would you allow your dentist to do work on you without a mask? How about have a minor or major surgery procedure? Would you be OK with your medical team not wearing a mask?

One thing there is no shortage of are unfounded facts! Reality is the virus, and vaccines are not old enough to really know what the overall long run effects are. How would you feel if you are vaccinated, and thus move around freely and unknowingly are exposed to the virus and while you may not feel any symptoms you could have it and spread it. No big deal until people around who for some reason may not be able to be vaccinated get ill and die!

Then again there are those that are considerate of others and those that only care about themselves. Each has the freedom to decide which group they wish to belong.

LIforrelaxin 04-19-2021 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flylady (Post 353905)
So for those who do not believe they do not work...would you allow your dentist to do work on you without a mask? How about have a minor or major surgery procedure? Would you be OK with your medical team not wearing a mask?

One thing there is no shortage of are unfounded facts! Reality is the virus, and vaccines are not old enough to really know what the overall long run effects are. How would you feel if you are vaccinated, and thus move around freely and unknowingly are exposed to the virus and while you may not feel any symptoms you could have it and spread it. No big deal until people around who for some reason may not be able to be vaccinated get ill and die!

Then again there are those that are considerate of others and those that only care about themselves. Each has the freedom to decide which group they wish to belong.

There is a big difference in wearing a mask when in close proximity to someone such as a dentist or surgeon working on the human body.... And wearing a mask out in public..... I think Mask have a time and place, but when I am walking outside and not in close proximity to others, I don't believe it does any good.

But that is just my opinion..... I think if we could turn back time, and not mandate mask, we would find the trajectory of the future doesn't change much. The biggest thing that was done to help stop the spread, was social distancing, and people working from home....

Mask IMHO, are just a feel good measure.... nothing more nothing less.

jbolty 04-19-2021 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingScot (Post 353904)
You must have missed Think's post #44 above--he links to an article in the Journal of the American Medical Assoc that documents the evidence

so what? AMA is no more believeable than anyone else. Common sense says masks paper masks on untrained people are stupid. CDC and WHO have not demonstrated and reason to trust them either.

LoveLakeLife 04-19-2021 02:53 PM

Again we differ. Use your head and think, don’t “feel”. And it’s “might think” not “may think.”


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jbolty 04-19-2021 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveLakeLife (Post 353908)
Again we differ. Use your head and think, don’t “feel”. And it’s “might think” not “may think.”


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stuff your condescension

MotorHead 04-19-2021 03:14 PM

I hope Webmaster kills this thread before it gets out of hand.

LoveLakeLife 04-19-2021 03:24 PM

I wasn’t being condescending, just helpful. I wonder how many mask people are still wearing gloves and spraying groceries? lol. If not, why not?


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LoveLakeLife 04-19-2021 03:26 PM

We are all forum friends, just with varying outlooks and opinions. I have no doubt we would all have a great time together if the forum fests were to begin again. I enjoy everyone on here.


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Flylady 04-19-2021 03:33 PM

We agree on most
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin (Post 353906)
There is a big difference in wearing a mask when in close proximity to someone such as a dentist or surgeon working on the human body.... And wearing a mask out in public..... I think Mask have a time and place, but when I am walking outside and not in close proximity to others, I don't believe it does any good.

But that is just my opinion..... I think if we could turn back time, and not mandate mask, we would find the trajectory of the future doesn't change much. The biggest thing that was done to help stop the spread, was social distancing, and people working from home....

Mask IMHO, are just a feel good measure.... nothing more nothing less.

I should have been more specific. I was referring to wearing masks when inside and close to others, not outside where it is easy to social distance.

jbolty 04-19-2021 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveLakeLife (Post 353908)
Again we differ. Use your head and think, don’t “feel”. And it’s “might think” not “may think.”


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I'm sorry, not called for.

Outdoorsman 04-19-2021 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbolty (Post 353900)
There is not a hint of any science showing that mask wearing among the general population does anything at all to limit covid transmission, actually the opposite and causes other problems.

The study concludes

I am no scientist but I have been in plenty of stores around the Lakes Region and otherwise where there have been people sneezing, coughing etc with no regard for anyone. Even those with "a cold" that are too ignorant to cover their mouth..... I don't need science to tell me that is not healthy for anyone around them, let alone disgusting.

Sue Doe-Nym 04-19-2021 05:43 PM

Not condescending? Bah humbug!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveLakeLife (Post 353911)
I wasn’t being condescending, just helpful. I wonder how many mask people are still wearing gloves and spraying groceries? lol. If not, why not?


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Having read several of your recent posts, it is very hard to believe that your intentions were to be helpful. Perception is important, and mine is that you wanted to make others look less smart/important than you.....not generally suggested as a way to make forum friends. JMHO

mswlogo 04-19-2021 06:04 PM

We should all realize we all want the same thing. We all want to get back to "normal" ASAP. Can we all agree on that?

I think one thing that really gets under peoples skin is comments of it's just a bad flu and overblown. A lot of people have had direct loved ones affected and it's a pretty horrible thing. You'd have to be living under rock to seriously think this is just a bad flu. It's 10x worse. And the Flu is not anything to sneeze at (no pun intended). It hits some countries a lot harder than others due to poor care.

Another thing I think is being confused is the TYPE of masks being referenced.

When this started I was using an N95 type mask (without the Valve). They were pretty tough to use for long periods or if you exerted yourself.

Everyone was saying, how can you breath in that. I couldn't :) Finally I switched to the "Surgical" masks. These are much more loose fitting. And what you mostly see these days in public. They don't seal as good but they allow you to breath easier and don't have some of the negative effects of the tight fitting N95 type masks. The Pro's outweigh the negatives (for this application, public daily use). They basically reduce the odds of you sucking in a direct hit or you sending one out. Not a guarantee at all. They have been used for decades.

Part of the reason the WHO were saying not to use "masks" by the general population is because N95 were in short supply. And that's partly what they were referring to. You need to rotate them a lot to warrant them and reserve them for direct contact situations.

You are seeing some references that a in the extremes. Like the public population using N95 or "transmission" tests using the looser fitting surgical mask with "immersed" exposure.

This is a nice summary that I don't think is biased, current and references The WHO and CDC recommendations.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...k/art-20485449

I will say, this is the first winter I can remember in eons I didn't get an inevitable cold. Usually passes from one co-worker to another. It might be a 2 day sniffle or 2 weeks of hacking once or twice a winter. I had nothing this winter. And it was not just masks of course. All the social distancing measures contributed to that.

FlyingScot 04-19-2021 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbolty (Post 353907)
so what? AMA is no more believeable than anyone else. Common sense says masks paper masks on untrained people are stupid. CDC and WHO have not demonstrated and reason to trust them either.

You said "not a hint of any science" supporting masks. Think gives you much more than a hint--he provides a link to one of the leading medical journals in the world.

Your first post was flat out wrong. Now, instead of acknowledging that and saying thanks for the "hint", you move the goal posts and go to the ridiculous assertion that a person is no better off with leading doctors than they would be with anyone else.

Biggd 04-19-2021 06:46 PM

You don't really get the seriousness of it until it affects you personally and I don't wish that on anyone.

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thinkxingu 04-19-2021 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggd (Post 353927)
You don't really get the seriousness of it until it affects you personally and I don't wish that on anyone.

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I agree completely. It wasn't really until a few months ago that my family and friend circle got hit, and I felt like things were closing in as they missed weeks of work, were rushed to hospitals, and, in my MIL's case, died. My best friend and his wife are still experiencing taste and smell loss, headaches, and fatigue...4 weeks after having tested positive.

Those are all enough reasons for me to wear a mask when around people/indoors.

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jbolty 04-19-2021 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingScot (Post 353924)
You said "not a hint of any science" supporting masks. Think gives you much more than a hint--he provides a link to one of the leading medical journals in the world.

Your first post was flat out wrong. Now, instead of acknowledging that and saying thanks for the "hint", you move the goal posts and go to the ridiculous assertion that a person is no better off with leading doctors than they would be with anyone else.

Top doctors and organizations disagree. You believe the ones that support you position and I do the same. But, I also have common sense on my side and recognize that the powers want to keep their boot on our neck as long as possible and will do or say anything to keep that control no matter what.

mswlogo 04-19-2021 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinkxingu (Post 353930)
I agree completely. It wasn't really until a few months ago that my family and friend circle got hit, and I felt like things were closing in as they missed weeks of work, were rushed to hospitals, and, in my MIL's case, died. My best friend and his wife are still experiencing taste and smell loss, headaches, and fatigue...4 weeks after having tested positive.

Those are all enough reasons for me to wear a mask when around people/indoors.

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Right. It hit pretty close to home when my sister in law got it bad. She’s been drugged unconscious for weeks on a ventilator. She is now breathing on her own. She can’t feel or move anything from the neck down. This is what “recovering” from COVID looks like for some. I know more people with impairments from COVID than died from COVID.

The number of people that have “recovered” but with serious degradation in the quality life has not been tallied yet. But it could be huge and will cost society a huge burden to support them. This is what might bankrupt the country in the long run. Even if COVID disappeared today. The damage in its wake is far beyond just the deaths.

My #1 reason for wearing a mask is to not be a burden on society.

LoveLakeLife 04-20-2021 04:08 AM

Sue, perception of the message is beyond the speaker’s control because it is filtered through the reader’s experience and biases. Intent is all that matters and I know the sincerity of my intent. Here’s to a great upcoming summer.


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ApS 04-20-2021 05:28 AM

SUB-Microscopic...
 
I wear a mask to signal others to keep their distance. :look:

This virus is SUB-microscopic: which means the mask is more comparatively porus to this virus than a chain link fence! (And you can't see it, even with a conventional microscope).

Whether or not you're a carrier, a wet sneeze into your mask should tell you volumes.

thinkxingu 04-20-2021 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApS (Post 353945)
I wear a mask to signal others to keep their distance. :look:

This virus is SUB-microscopic: which means the mask is more comparatively porus to this virus than a chain link fence! (And you can't see it, even with a conventional microscope).

Whether or not you're a carrier, a wet sneeze into your mask should tell you volumes.

The size of the particles vs. mask has been addressed for months and is included in the article I posted above, along with numerous experiments in various settings. In short: the virus particles require aerosols to spread. Aerosols get caught up/minimized by masks, some masks doing a better job than others but all having some impact. Added to physical distancing, increased air filtration, and limited human saturation, masks reduce the spread of Covid.

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Biggd 04-20-2021 06:24 AM

As someone else said, anyone can find studies and artilcles to support which side of the fence you're on. I think the biggest difference is some people care about the greater good and others are only concerned about themselves and what they feel is being taken away from them.

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Seaplane Pilot 04-20-2021 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggd (Post 353948)
As someone else said, anyone can find studies and artilcles to support which side of the fence you're on. I think the biggest difference is some people care about the greater good and others are only concerned about themselves and what they feel is being taken away from them.

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I think the biggest difference is as follows:

Pro-maskers: Always pushing their positions and agendas on everyone, including those that have different beliefs about mask wearing. It’s clear that the “Karens” of society are pro-maskers, and are the ones getting in other people’s faces when they are not wearing a mask. How many reports have you heard about anti-maskers screaming at people for wearing masks? That’s right, zero is the answer.

Anti-maskers: This group has no problem with the pro-maskers wearing masks wherever and whenever they want. What they do have a problem with is the pro-maskers getting in their faces about mask wearing, all under the guise of “love thy neighbor” and compliance for “the greater good”. If the pro-maskers believe that the masks actually work, that’s great. Keep wearing them, but for God’s sake, please leave the rest of us alone. We don’t get in your face, so stay the hell out of our faces. The guilt angle about mask wearing will never work.

thinkxingu 04-20-2021 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot (Post 353952)
I think the biggest difference is as follows:

Pro-maskers: Always pushing their positions and agendas on everyone, including those that have different beliefs about mask wearing. It’s clear that the “Karens” of society are pro-maskers, and are the ones getting in other people’s faces when they are not wearing a mask. How many reports have you heard about anti-maskers screaming at people for wearing masks? That’s right, zero is the answer.

Anti-maskers: This group has no problem with the pro-maskers wearing masks wherever and whenever they want. What they do have a problem with is the pro-maskers getting in their faces about mask wearing, all under the guise of “love thy neighbor” and compliance for “the greater good”. If the pro-maskers believe that the masks actually work, that’s great. Keep wearing them, but for God’s sake, please leave the rest of us alone. We don’t get in your face, so stay the hell out of our faces. The guilt angle about mask wearing will never work.

I think the biggest difference is as follows:

Pro-maskers follow science and accept that a little bit of give creates a better whole for everyone.

Anti-maskers scoff at science and embrace conspiracy theory in the name of justifying whatever it is they want at the moment.

I wear a mask in public because I accept that my freedom doesn't have the right to infringe on others'.

I also believe, however, that businesses, and other private institutions, should be able to choose how they approach masks (or ANY behavior) in terms of what's best for their businesses and customers.

I equate Covid to smoking. You have a right to smoke, but your smoking should not affect my freedom to breathe fresh air. And, when people are in public, the good of the whole supercedes the wishes of the one.

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Garcia 04-20-2021 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot (Post 353952)
I think the biggest difference is as follows:

Pro-maskers: Always pushing their positions and agendas on everyone, including those that have different beliefs about mask wearing. It’s clear that the “Karens” of society are pro-maskers, and are the ones getting in other people’s faces when they are not wearing a mask. How many reports have you heard about anti-maskers screaming at people for wearing masks? That’s right, zero is the answer.

Anti-maskers: This group has no problem with the pro-maskers wearing masks wherever and whenever they want. What they do have a problem with is the pro-maskers getting in their faces about mask wearing, all under the guise of “love thy neighbor” and compliance for “the greater good”. If the pro-maskers believe that the masks actually work, that’s great. Keep wearing them, but for God’s sake, please leave the rest of us alone. We don’t get in your face, so stay the hell out of our faces. The guilt angle about mask wearing will never work.

Couldn't disagree more. There is such a lack of tolerance, respect, dialogue, and an unwillingness to listen on both sides of this issue (and so many similar ones) that there is plenty of opportunity to spread the blame around nice and equally. Neither side can claim the high ground of tolerance. instead, both are working hard to sink as low as possible.

DEJ 04-20-2021 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot (Post 353952)
I think the biggest difference is as follows:

Pro-maskers: Always pushing their positions and agendas on everyone, including those that have different beliefs about mask wearing. It’s clear that the “Karens” of society are pro-maskers, and are the ones getting in other people’s faces when they are not wearing a mask. How many reports have you heard about anti-maskers screaming at people for wearing masks? That’s right, zero is the answer.

Anti-maskers: This group has no problem with the pro-maskers wearing masks wherever and whenever they want. What they do have a problem with is the pro-maskers getting in their faces about mask wearing, all under the guise of “love thy neighbor” and compliance for “the greater good”. If the pro-maskers believe that the masks actually work, that’s great. Keep wearing them, but for God’s sake, please leave the rest of us alone. We don’t get in your face, so stay the hell out of our faces. The guilt angle about mask wearing will never work.

Best post in this entire thread IMO. The post that followed it is a perfect example of what you said.

MotorHead 04-20-2021 09:50 AM

What is the thought (if any) process of Anti-maskers?

I don't give a s**t if everyone dies because of my stupidity as long as I look good? It is all fake news because orange buffoon said so.

I don’t get it.

joey2665 04-20-2021 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MotorHead (Post 353965)
What is the thought (if any) process of Anti-maskers?

I don't give a s**t if everyone dies because of my stupidity as long as I look good? It is all fake news because orange buffoon said so.

I don’t get it.

Simple if you are worried your mask protects you as does your vaccination. If I don’t wear a mask it’s my choice my risk.

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DEJ 04-20-2021 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MotorHead (Post 353965)
What is the thought (if any) process of Anti-maskers?

I don't give a s**t if everyone dies because of my stupidity as long as I look good? It is all fake news because orange buffoon said so.

I don’t get it.

No need to bring politics into this. The anti-maskers have their opinion, the maskers have their opinion. Just leave it at that because all this childish banter is not going to change anyone's mind.

MotorHead 04-20-2021 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joey2665 (Post 353969)
Simple if you are worried your mask protects you as does your vaccination. If I don’t wear a mask it’s my choice my risk.


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That is the problem.
By not wearing your mask, you are jeopardising my life and increasing my chances of catching the virus.

FlyingScot 04-20-2021 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot (Post 353952)
I think the biggest difference is as follows:

Pro-maskers: Always pushing their positions and agendas on everyone, including those that have different beliefs about mask wearing. It’s clear that the “Karens” of society are pro-maskers, and are the ones getting in other people’s faces when they are not wearing a mask. How many reports have you heard about anti-maskers screaming at people for wearing masks? That’s right, zero is the answer.

Anti-maskers: This group has no problem with the pro-maskers wearing masks wherever and whenever they want. What they do have a problem with is the pro-maskers getting in their faces about mask wearing, all under the guise of “love thy neighbor” and compliance for “the greater good”. If the pro-maskers believe that the masks actually work, that’s great. Keep wearing them, but for God’s sake, please leave the rest of us alone. We don’t get in your face, so stay the hell out of our faces. The guilt angle about mask wearing will never work.

Pro-maskers are continually pushing science and public health.

Anti-maskers are the same people who were covid-deniers a year ago. Now that the data is overwhelming that they were wrong, they have switched to personal attacks. (like "Karen")

Please go back, read your old posts and your compatriots' old posts. Then let us know why you have any credibility at all on covid today

MotorHead 04-20-2021 11:20 AM

https://www.nme.com/news/music/ted-n...ndemic-2924035

I feel soooooooo sad for Ted :(

DEJ 04-20-2021 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingScot (Post 353972)
Pro-maskers are continually pushing science and public health.

Anti-maskers are the same people who were covid-deniers a year ago. Now that the data is overwhelming that they were wrong, they have switched to personal attacks. (like "Karen")

Please go back, read your old posts and your compatriots' old posts. Then let us know why you have any credibility at all on covid today

That's your opinion flyingscot. Obviously the anti maskers do not share your opinion. Why is it so important that you and others try to beat them into submission for believing what they do? Is it an ego thing? I just do not get it.

joey2665 04-20-2021 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MotorHead (Post 353971)
That is the problem.
By not wearing your mask, you are jeopardising my life and increasing my chances of catching the virus.

The only way I am jeopardizing you if if you believe the masks and vaccine dont work. It you are worried then protect yourself that is your responsibility, my not wearing a mask has NO affect on you just me if I want to take that risk.

Seaplane Pilot 04-20-2021 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingScot (Post 353972)
Pro-maskers are continually pushing science and public health.

Anti-maskers are the same people who were covid-deniers a year ago. Now that the data is overwhelming that they were wrong, they have switched to personal attacks. (like "Karen")

Please go back, read your old posts and your compatriots' old posts. Then let us know why you have any credibility at all on covid today

Yup, as usual, you’re right and everyone else is wrong. :rolleye1:

WinnisquamZ 04-20-2021 11:41 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Attachment 16916


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MotorHead 04-20-2021 11:43 AM

I will discuss the benefits of wearing a mask with you once you show me a copy of your degree in epidemiology. Until then, you are just a waste of my time.

jbolty 04-20-2021 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MotorHead (Post 353978)
I will discuss the benefits of wearing a mask with you once you show me a copy of your degree in epidemiology. Until then, you are just a waste of my time.

I guess I missed where you posted your degree...

joey2665 04-20-2021 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MotorHead (Post 353978)
I will discuss the benefits of wearing a mask with you once you show me a copy of your degree in epidemiology. Until then, you are just a waste of my time.

As you are wasting mine. My mask wearing has NO benefit to you if you are wearing yours (according to your science) unless again you do not believe your science. FYI I would love to see your epidermist certificate


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