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Water Camper 07-27-2019 09:16 PM

Rights
 
What are my rights when a neighbor ties a boat up to my
dock without permission ?

Bill

loonguy 07-27-2019 09:22 PM

Perhaps you need to post a Private Dock/No Trespassing /Posted sign to let him know he should not use your dock.

Water Camper 07-27-2019 09:39 PM

Would you expect to have to post a sign at your dock.

Bill

thinkxingu 07-27-2019 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Water Camper (Post 316210)
Would you expect to have to post a sign at your dock.

Bill

I would say the first thing to do is speak to the neighbor. Why is he/she parking there?

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Dad sold the C * C 07-27-2019 10:14 PM

Maybe it was "too long a day" on the lake and he pulled into the wrong dock:D

Water Camper 07-28-2019 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinkxingu (Post 316211)
I would say the first thing to do is speak to the neighbor. Why is he/she parking there?

Says he couldn't find a transient slip for his boat.

What are my rights ? In my mind he is trespassing.

swnoel 07-28-2019 07:13 AM

Unfortunately, disrespect towards others is becoming a common occurrence. I suppose you could have untied the boat and send it off adrift. Opps...;)

Top-Water 07-28-2019 07:16 AM

Unfortunately, disrespect towards others is becoming a common occurrence.

joey2665 07-28-2019 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Water Camper (Post 316230)
Quote:

Originally Posted by thinkxingu (Post 316211)
I would say the first thing to do is speak to the neighbor. Why is he/she parking there?

Says he couldn't find a transient slip for his boat.

What are my rights ? In my mind he is trespassing.

How long was it docked at your slip? If it was a short time (couple hours or overnight and it was gone in the morning) I would probably not make a big deal about it. However if it persisted or was an extended period I would call the Marine Patrol and take lots of pictures.


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tis 07-28-2019 07:37 AM

WHAT????? They have no right docking at YOUR dock.

upthesaukee 07-28-2019 07:37 AM

Marine Patrol
 
Contact Marine Patrol. If your dock is owned or leased by you, he is trespassing.

How does someone launch a boat that will be on the lake and not have already secured docking for the boat?:eek:

Dave

MAXUM 07-28-2019 08:17 AM

Parking meters. Might as well make some money at it.

Hillcountry 07-28-2019 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Water Camper (Post 316230)
Says he couldn't find a transient slip for his boat.

What are my rights ? In my mind he is trespassing.

Holy mackerel...that thing would have been gone in a NY minute if it was my dock...with or without him on it.

ApS 07-28-2019 08:28 AM

If He Has One...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Water Camper (Post 316230)
Says he couldn't find a transient slip for his boat. What are my rights ? In my mind he is trespassing.

What's the problem with your neighbor's dock? :confused:

Water Camper 07-28-2019 08:33 AM

Tied up overnight. Neighbor doesn't have a dock. Just went over and reminded him that he said it would be gone in the morning. It is now 8:30 am.

ApS 07-28-2019 08:40 AM

Desperate Boater?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Water Camper (Post 316251)
Tied up overnight. Neighbor doesn't have a dock. Just went over and reminded him that he said it would be gone in the morning. It is now 8:30 am.

Seems like a very profitable rental is in the air.
:)

Major 07-28-2019 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Water Camper (Post 316251)
Tied up overnight. Neighbor doesn't have a dock. Just went over and reminded him that he said it would be gone in the morning. It is now 8:30 am.

I would inform him that he has 15 minutes to move the boat and if he doesn’t you are going to untie it. Also any subsequent instance will result in immediate untying of the boat.


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The Real BigGuy 07-28-2019 09:05 AM

I don’t think you can legally untie it but, if it isn’t gone I’d call both the MP & the local police. On the other hand, if his tying up isn’t interfering with your use you could offer to rent him space. Based on his understanding of lack of availability it might be lucrative.


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camp guy 07-28-2019 09:19 AM

Rights
 
As wrong as it sounds, just remember, you ARE living next to him and in the big, big picture, you probably want to get along. Rather than start with a full salvo of retribution, maybe a calm conversation is in order. Not knowing any more than you posted, it is hard to offer a solution, but I would try to keep some sort of cordial relationship in place.

Seaplane Pilot 07-28-2019 09:36 AM

State statute says you cannot maliciously cast a boat adrift. Seems to me that if you cast this boat adrift (since it’s violating private property) then this would not be malicious. If it was on my dock they would never see it again....

Top-Water 07-28-2019 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camp guy (Post 316259)
As wrong as it sounds, just remember, you ARE living next to him and in the big, big picture, you probably want to get along. Rather than start with a full salvo of retribution, maybe a calm conversation is in order. Not knowing any more than you posted, it is hard to offer a solution, but I would try to keep some sort of cordial relationship in place.

Words to live by. .............


Thanks for presenting a more reasonable approach.

Water Camper 07-28-2019 09:50 AM

We have had issues with his parents who actually own the property nextdoor. We own the water front. Went to court and established a court order which denies their right to tie up to our dock. Property has not been used in years. The son came up yesterday with numerous friends and 2 boats. They came in late last evening. They tied 1 boat to my dock. Trying to be hospitable I allowed them to keep the boat overnight but it needed to be removed in the morning. 8:00 am arrived and no activity next door. Took pictures then woke up my neighbor and reminded him of our conversation. He said he would move boat soon. Waited an hour and went back over and said the boat needs to be moved immediately. He has finally moved the boat.
I have given him a copy of the court order.

Bill

Top-Water 07-28-2019 09:55 AM

It seems you have done all you could to peacefully resolve the situation.

Seaplane Pilot 07-28-2019 10:11 AM

An old thread on this subject
 
https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ead.php?t=3166

Bear Islander 07-28-2019 10:58 AM

A boat cast adrift is clearly a hazard to navigation. If you untied it you would be responsible. If someone was injured you could be prosecuted.

A boat adrift could cause damage to another boat or dock, possibly yours.

Hard to believe people would recommend setting it adrift, totally irresponsible!

Hillcountry 07-28-2019 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander (Post 316268)
A boat cast adrift is clearly a hazard to navigation. If you untied it you would be responsible. If someone was injured you could be prosecuted.

A boat adrift could cause damage to another boat or dock, possibly yours.

Hard to believe people would recommend setting it adrift, totally irresponsible!

So tying up to your dock without permission is responsible?
People, especially the “me generation” which this sounds like it was, push their limits because they usually face no consequences.

FlyingScot 07-28-2019 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hillcountry (Post 316270)
So tying up to your dock without permission is responsible?
People, especially the “me generation” which this sounds like it was, push their limits because they usually face no consequences.

Of course tying up under these circumstances is irresponsible. But that's a separate issue from whether it is legal or otherwise appropriate to untie the boat. A loose boat could be a VERY bad situation, and nobody's going to have much sympathy for the guy who untied it simply because he was angry with his neighbor's rudeness

ushaggerb 07-28-2019 08:14 PM

The "Me" Generation?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hillcountry (Post 316270)
So tying up to your dock without permission is responsible?
People, especially the “me generation” which this sounds like it was, push their limits because they usually face no consequences.


The "Me" Generation is most closely tied to the Baby Boomers, less so to the Millenials. Assuming you meant the Millenials.... In any event, I wouldn't tie this to a generation, but rather to someone who feels entitled, shows a lack of judgment, is willing to openly trespass on their neighbor. We can find that type of person in any generation.

We have been discussing "rights", which can become litigious. Might also want to approach this asking what's "fair." The two are often at odds with each other, but, I think, it forces a more considered - not necessarily easier - approach.

WinnisquamZ 07-28-2019 08:58 PM

There should be no delay in calling the authorities after the first refusal to remove the boat from your dock. You showed weakness and they took advantage of it.


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Water Camper 07-28-2019 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ (Post 316308)
There should be no delay in calling the authorities after the first refusal to remove the boat from your dock. You showed weakness and they took advantage of it.

Won't happen a 2nd time !

Bill

ushaggerb 07-28-2019 10:18 PM

Tell 'em next time the entire forum will park their boats at his place. Oh, and we'll have our cars shipped over. They'll go in the backyard.

jeffk 07-29-2019 06:33 AM

Renting
 
For those who suggested "renting" :eek::eek::eek:, if you think the abuse of your rights is bad now, wait until you "rent" to someone. Their sense of entitlement to abuse your property will soar. You want to engage in a business transaction with people who start out by disrespecting your property rights? You will wake up to six boats of his friends tied up to your dock and garbage strewn all over the shore. After all they are renting it, right?

Woodsy 07-29-2019 11:04 AM

WaterCamper..... Your dock your rules! It was beyond gracious of you to let them tie up overnight. You at least made an attempt to be a a good neighbor to an obviously crappy one! Cheers!

Next time (if there is a next time) call the MP and let them resolve the situation....

Woodsy

ApS 07-29-2019 03:14 PM

News to Me...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffk (Post 316320)
For those who suggested "renting" :eek::eek::eek:, if you think the abuse of your rights is bad now, wait until you "rent" to someone. Their sense of entitlement to abuse your property will soar. You want to engage in a business transaction with people who start out by disrespecting your property rights? You will wake up to six boats of his friends tied up to your dock and garbage strewn all over the shore. After all they are renting it, right?

I was just advised that renting NH dock space isn't permitted.:confused:

Paugus Bay Resident 07-29-2019 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApS (Post 316349)
I was just advised that renting NH dock space isn't permitted.:confused:

Who told you that? A lot of slips at MVYC are rented, as are ones in other marina's, condo associations and private residences. Pretty sure that if it wasn't permitted MYYC et al wouldn't be doing it.

Only time I can imagine that is in an association where it's part of the bylaws.

TheTimeTraveler 07-29-2019 04:00 PM

Post a sign on your dock; "One 25 foot docking space for rent for $100 per hour". Chances are real good they won't bite, but if they do you have a nice profitable reward.......

They also will recognize the legal financial penalties if they do use your space.

Wifi-1 07-29-2019 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheTimeTraveler (Post 316353)
Post a sign on your dock; "One 25 foot docking space for rent for $100 per hour". Chances are real good they won't bite, but if they do you have a nice profitable reward.......

They also will recognize the legal financial penalties if they do use your space.

Haha, great idea !!

I think the best thing the OP has is that court order, present that to any police officer, and they would have a hard time telling the court why they wouldn't enforce it.

Outdoorsman 07-29-2019 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Water Camper (Post 316262)
We have had issues with his parents who actually own the property nextdoor. We own the water front. Went to court and established a court order which denies their right to tie up to our dock. Property has not been used in years. The son came up yesterday with numerous friends and 2 boats. They came in late last evening. They tied 1 boat to my dock. Trying to be hospitable I allowed them to keep the boat overnight but it needed to be removed in the morning. 8:00 am arrived and no activity next door. Took pictures then woke up my neighbor and reminded him of our conversation. He said he would move boat soon. Waited an hour and went back over and said the boat needs to be moved immediately. He has finally moved the boat.
I have given him a copy of the court order.

Bill

Why on earth are you discussing this in an open forum?

You have a court order.... Hospitality did not work...

Your Right is to contact the courts and let them know the neighbor is in violation.

I get what you are trying to do (keep the peace), but from what you are writing here, Enough already is what I would do.

Major 07-29-2019 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wifi-1 (Post 316355)
Haha, great idea !!

I think the best thing the OP has is that court order, present that to any police officer, and they would have a hard time telling the court why they wouldn't enforce it.

I disagree. A police officer or marine patrol officer would not consider this criminal behavior, but instead a civil dispute. The only recourse the OP has is to go back to court with evidence showing a violation of the court order. This isn't necessarily as simple as it appears. Contempt violations are very difficult to prove.

The issue here is respect and a violation of boundaries. When I wrote my original post, I did not know that there was a history between the OP and the neighbor. Had I known that there was already a court order in place, I most definitely would have untied his boat. The OP is dealing with a bully, and as my mother taught me at a young age, you punch a bully in the nose. He doesn't respect the OP nor any of his rights. The neighbor (and his son) aren't interested in discussing the issue. I realize the boat may cause damage if untied, but the risk is probably pretty low and one that I would be willing to take. It may seem irresponsible to some, but I am not going to let anyone violate my personal property and space. As someone noted above, bullies take advantage of people trying to be nice and act reasonable. With this neighbor, the next thing you know he's on your property and treating it as his own.

That said, no one enjoys confrontation, but sometimes a stand needs to be made. I am sorry the OP had to deal with this. To go through the effort of obtaining a court order shows what he's been through. Unfortunately, there are no easy solutions.

loonguy 07-29-2019 05:21 PM

Why wouldn't the criminal trespass laws apply if the dock and the land to which it is attached were marked with private property/no trespassing/posted signs?

TiltonBB 07-29-2019 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major (Post 316363)
I most definitely would have untied his boat. The OP is dealing with a bully, and as my mother taught me at a young age, you punch a bully in the nose. He doesn't respect the OP nor any of his rights. The neighbor (and his son) aren't interested in discussing the issue. I realize the boat may cause damage if untied, but the risk is probably pretty low and one that I would be willing to take. It may seem irresponsible to some, but I am not going to let anyone violate my personal property and space.

Interesting. Untie it and let it go. So when a boat with a family of 5 hits that unlit drifting boat that you untied, the risk of injury, property damage, and legal problems for a hazard you created are something you are comfortable with?

Maybe your mother forgot to explain that actions have consequences.

DickR 07-29-2019 05:44 PM

Can we get Marine Patrol to weight in on this issue, to see what they are inclined to do for the OP?

Major 07-29-2019 05:44 PM

Regarding Loon's post, criminal trespassing is different than trespassing. The neighbor did not commit a crime. I am fairly confident that the police would not want to be involved.

Regarding Tilton's post, I think the risk would be very low, and if after speaking to the person and asking/demanding that the boat be removed, absent a physical altercation, what would you suggest? Hiring an attorney, going to court, obtaining a court order, and having that court order ignored or laughed at? I wouldn't have the time or the patience. Maybe a physical altercation is the only alternative, but one that should be avoided. Also, although not stated, in my scenario, the neighbor would be informed that his boat was no longer on the dock so I doubt the family of five would be in any danger. I would hope that the neighbor would care enough to retrieve it.

loonguy 07-29-2019 05:51 PM

If the property had been posted, wouldn't trespassing be a crime? Posting might provide a remedy for any future trespassing.

Outdoorsman 07-29-2019 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major (Post 316371)
Regarding Loon's post, criminal trespassing is different than trespassing. The neighbor did not commit a crime. I am fairly confident that the police would not want to be involved.

Regarding Tilton's post, I think the risk would be very low, and if after speaking to the person and asking/demanding that the boat be removed, absent a physical altercation, what would you suggest? Hiring an attorney, going to court, obtaining a court order, and having that court order ignored or laughed at? I wouldn't have the time or the patience. Maybe a physical altercation is the only alternative, but one that should be avoided. Also, although not stated, in my scenario, the neighbor would be informed that his boat was no longer on the dock so I doubt the family of five would be in any danger. I would hope that the neighbor would care enough to retrieve it.

Let me remind you of how ish works in "real life".....

You set a boat adrift because you are entitled...... Then this.....

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ad.php?t=23775

or this

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ad.php?t=24587

WTH

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major (Post 311156)
What if it were your son or daughter? I know if it was one of my boys, I would want an eye for an eye. There are two components to our criminal justice system. The first is to punish and rehabilitate criminals for the crimes they commit. The second is to provide justice to victims of criminal behavior. We focus too often on the first and not on the second.


Sal 07-29-2019 07:41 PM

Untie the boat. Walk it out about 30 feet. Drop its anchor.

macbeth 07-29-2019 09:58 PM

You must have a friend or know someone who has an extra boat they are not using for a week. Just ask them if they mind have it docked on your dock. Hence, no space for the rude next door neighbor. Problem Solved ! Yw..

Patiently Watching 07-30-2019 02:22 AM

This is an interesting topic and a slippery slope.
Untying the boat and releasing or anchoring it is almost certainly criminal.
The neighbor docking on another deck is something that should probably be litigated in state court.
The lake, starting at the high water mark is state property and as a result, property ownership claims are goin to be tough to argue...
If the neighbor were to come and go by way of water, without actually trespassing on the land the dock is adjacent to, the case would be very interesting.
I hope this makes it to court, it could change a lot for the shore of lake winnipesaukee.
We were in the boat last night and I was thinking about all of the trampolines and rafts on the lake without permit.... does a property owner have the right to ban a passerby from using them if accessed by water?

tis 07-30-2019 05:45 AM

Are you being serious Patiently?????

While we are at it, why doesn't Water Camper feel free to take his neighbors' boat for a ride any time he wants.

Woodsy 07-30-2019 08:12 AM

Another option.....
 
Post your dock, No Trespassing/Docking - Violators will be towed.

They dock, you have them towed! No different than parking in your driveway!


Woodsy

Garcia 07-30-2019 08:35 AM

This whole thread makes me appreciate my neighbors! They are always there to lend a helping hand (including dock space as needed) as do I.

Kamper 07-30-2019 08:54 AM

an older thread on this subject

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ighlight=towed

One of my suggestions, for a sign.

To the owner of ________________________________

They say the boat you should not rock
but you need permission before you dock.

Here you stand broken hearted
'cause your boat has pre-departed.

To Glendale MPHQ you must go
to pay the impound fees you now owe.

MAXUM 07-30-2019 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia (Post 316398)
This whole thread makes me appreciate my neighbors! They are always there to lend a helping hand (including dock space as needed) as do I.

I agree. Do it all the time. No big deal but then again us islanders tend to be a little more laid back about such things. I mean we have folks walking through our property all the time too, tis part of the way of life out there and I personally think it adds to the awesomeness of island life.

Major 07-30-2019 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman (Post 316377)
Let me remind you of how ish works in "real life".....

You set a boat adrift because you are entitled...... Then this.....

I don't get your point. In this instance, a not-so-neighborly neighbor is treating the OP's personal property as his own. He is impinging the OP's rights as a property owner. The OP did nothing wrong and merely wanted to quietly enjoy HIS property. In the two cases you referenced, persons high on alcohol and drugs, respectively, criminally killed several people while operating a motor vehicle. I think it is the height of hyperbole and an exaggeration to suggest that an untied boat could create such a danger, especially when the owner of the boat has notice of it being untied.

For the record, if it was my neighbor, of course I would let him use the slip in case of emergency or a last minute need. I get along great with my neighbors because I respect their rights and the respect mine. This is not the case in this thread. The OP HAD TO GO TO COURT TO ENFORCE HIS RIGHTS! Am I the only one that finds this completely unacceptable?! I would not give an inch to that neighbor. His behavior changes everything.

dippasan 07-30-2019 09:38 AM

Dock space
 
We share dock space with our island neighbors ALL THE TIME! It is done with mutual courtesy, respect and most importantly...permission.

If I arrived to the island one day and an unknown boat was tied up at my dock I'd be pretty pi$$ed, however, if a note was left with explanation, name & phone #, or some indication that there may have been an emergency, I'd be ok with it for a day or so as long I can communicate with the owner.

Communication is key.

Major 07-30-2019 09:45 AM

Kamper, thank you for the thread. I love the idea of throwing bread and sardines on his boat to attract birds! I think you have solved the problem. ;-)

shore things 07-30-2019 10:52 AM

Getting back to the initial question, I don't see why leaving your boat tied to a private dock you don't own would be viewed any differently than leaving your car parked in a private driveway you don't own. You shouldn't be surprised if it gets towed. Yes the dock is in public waters but the end of my driveway is in the road right of way and I'm pretty certain that doesn't mean someone can park in the end of my driveway and block it off. Does anyone know what the legal ramifications would be, if any, if one were to have that boat towed away? Where is Skip to weigh in on this issue?

Major 07-30-2019 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shore things (Post 316415)
Getting back to the initial question, I don't see why leaving your boat tied to a private dock you don't own would be viewed any differently than leaving your car parked in a private driveway you don't own. You shouldn't be surprised if it gets towed. Yes the dock is in public waters but the end of my driveway is in the road right of way and I'm pretty certain that doesn't mean someone can park in the end of my driveway and block it off. Does anyone know what the legal ramifications would be, if any, if one were to have that boat towed away? Where is Skip to weigh in on this issue?

This was answered in the prior thread provided by Kamper. Difficult, if not impossible to find someone to tow the boat. Marine patrol won't do it. Private tow boats won't either. Also, I'm not sure how it works with a car parked in a private driveway. If I call a tow company to tow a car parked in my parking space without permission, does the tow company automatically just tow the car? Again this is a civil issue, not criminal. My guess is that you would have to get a court order to tow the vehicle.

Woodsy 07-30-2019 11:57 AM

You don't need a court order to tow a boat anymore than they need a court order to tow a parked car.... They tow in the Weirs all the time when people park in private spots. Gulbicki's Towing gets all the Gringo tows.

The issue is that the towboat companies probably do not have a storage spot for a towed boat...

Woodsy

fatlazyless 07-30-2019 12:59 PM

Seems like moving the boat a short distance of 25-yards and dropping anchor, or tying it to a big cinder block, underwater, could both remove it, and keep it safe.

What would Judge Judy say about that?

Hillcountry 07-30-2019 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless (Post 316427)
Seems like moving the boat a short distance of 25-yards and dropping anchor, or tying it to a big cinder block, underwater, could both remove it, and keep it safe.

What would Judge Judy say about that?

The trouble is...you shouldn't have to be doing this in the first place!

MeEscape 07-30-2019 02:09 PM

Chill
 
IMHO, this thread exemplifies what is wrong in our society today.

Someone comes late to the party and uses a dock that they don’t have a “right” to use. Then they are, maybe, a bit slow or lazy at moving the boat away.

Immediately the discussion goes to “MY rights” and then to most every suggestion short of blowing the boat out of the water. My guess is that could be coming soon. Sounds like a great neighborhood!

There appears to be some sort of history with a prior owner/generation, but I suspect whoever left the boat at the dock was simply, at best, moving slow or just on a different schedule than others.

Maybe, just work it out without the dramatics!

Major 07-30-2019 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeEscape (Post 316431)
IMHO, this thread exemplifies what is wrong in our society today.

Someone comes late to the party and uses a dock that they don’t have a “right” to use. Then they are, maybe, a bit slow or lazy at moving the boat away.

Immediately the discussion goes to “MY rights” and then to most every suggestion short of blowing the boat out of the water. My guess is that could be coming soon. Sounds like a great neighborhood!

There appears to be some sort of history with a prior owner/generation, but I suspect whoever left the boat at the dock was simply, at best, moving slow or just on a different schedule than others.

Maybe, just work it out without the dramatics!

I think the history defines the recourse. If you're so chill give me the keys to your car and I'll give it back when I feel like. My timing may no suit your timing. I may be slow or lazy. After all, your so-called "rights" in your car can't be any more or less than the so-called "rights" of the dock owner.

Major 07-30-2019 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hillcountry (Post 316430)
The trouble is...you shouldn't have to be doing this in the first place!

Hillcountry, is this before or after Judge Judy asks whether he has a job! I love it when she does that!

robmac 07-30-2019 02:44 PM

Please, their schedule has nothing to do with trespassing on someones property! Lucky it wasn't mine I would have had it towed as soon as I didn't see a note explaining why it was there. And to answer your statement that as a dock owner you have no right to be upset that someone dumped a boat where it shouldn't be docked I should wait. SORRY YOU ARE 100% WRONG!

shore things 07-30-2019 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeEscape (Post 316431)
IMHO, this thread exemplifies what is wrong in our society today.

Someone comes late to the party and uses a dock that they don’t have a “right” to use. Then they are, maybe, a bit slow or lazy at moving the boat away.

Immediately the discussion goes to “MY rights” and then to most every suggestion short of blowing the boat out of the water. My guess is that could be coming soon. Sounds like a great neighborhood!

There appears to be some sort of history with a prior owner/generation, but I suspect whoever left the boat at the dock was simply, at best, moving slow or just on a different schedule than others.

Maybe, just work it out without the dramatics!

This is one of those trolling attempts right? I mean I can never tell. I get asked some pretty incredible questions all the time and well it's my job to answer them so I always assume the person asking is serious but in this case this is a joke, right?

Major 07-30-2019 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shore things (Post 316438)
This is one of those trolling attempts right? I mean I can never tell. I get asked some pretty incredible questions all the time and well it's my job to answer them so I always assume the person asking is serious but in this case this is a joke, right?

I guess I bit. I'm trying to get the hook out of my mouth.

swnoel 07-30-2019 03:19 PM

Just goes to show how this nation has devolved... I'm pretty sure it won't end well in the near future.

Outdoorsman 07-30-2019 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major (Post 316435)
Hillcountry, is this before or after Judge Judy asks whether he has a job! I love it when she does that!

This post actually cleared up SO MUCH confusion that I had with your qualifications.
Thank You!

Hillcountry 07-30-2019 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shore things (Post 316438)
This is one of those trolling attempts right? I mean I can never tell. I get asked some pretty incredible questions all the time and well it's my job to answer them so I always assume the person asking is serious but in this case this is a joke, right?

My guess it’s the “chill” kid that used the OP’s dock...sounds just like one of the “me me me” me-linniels...

Hillcountry 07-30-2019 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeEscape (Post 316431)
IMHO, this thread exemplifies what is wrong in our society today.

Someone comes late to the party and uses a dock that they don’t have a “right” to use. Then they are, maybe, a bit slow or lazy at moving the boat away.

Immediately the discussion goes to “MY rights” and then to most every suggestion short of blowing the boat out of the water. My guess is that could be coming soon. Sounds like a great neighborhood!

There appears to be some sort of history with a prior owner/generation, but I suspect whoever left the boat at the dock was simply, at best, moving slow or just on a different schedule than others.

Maybe, just work it out without the dramatics!

Sorry but you have it back-asswards...
What is “wrong in our society” is exemplified in...wait for it....YOUR OWN POST.
You portray exactly, the kind of attitude that is taking this country down.
Chill my ass...

Descant 07-30-2019 06:13 PM

Ah. Success
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Major (Post 316439)
I guess I bit. I'm trying to get the hook out of my mouth.

If so, Good trolling. 68 responses. However, the OP came back with additional info about a court order, which I think was crucial. I just don't know here, but I've been in similar situations so I give the benefit of the doubt to the OP.

Mr. V 07-30-2019 08:42 PM

OP: It would seem that you do indeed have a viable remedy.

Given that you have a court order prohibiting them from using your dock, your remedy is to file an action for contempt of court (or whatever the equivalent action is called in the Granite State).

The Real BigGuy 07-31-2019 08:08 AM

If he/they violated a court order the go back to court with the evidence and let the court deal with it.

a question - was the boat impinging on the OP’s ability to use his dock? If it was a space that is normally open what’s the big deal if the neighbor didn’t respond immediately? I do agree however that they should ask. Sounds like there is more to this story of neighbor on neighbor crime. Maybe a fence on the property line fixes the issue.


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Major 07-31-2019 09:39 AM

I am astounded by the responses. So the OP is supposed to take a day out of work, hire an attorney, and essentially re-litigate an issue that was already resolved in his favor. I've been involved in several contempt of court issues. It's not as easy as taking a photograph of the boat and saying the neighbor violated the court's order. You basically have to start from scratch. It's a very, very frustrating process.

I am also astounded by how easily people want to give away another person's property, all for maintaining an appearance of being a "good neighbor." Who's behavior is causing the issue? The OP or the neighbor? So if I have an extra dock slip, I should let my neighbor use it without permission so I can appear virtuous? Does this apply to excess parking spaces? To extra vehicles? Where does it end? It is the neighbor in this instance who broke the trust. He is not entitled to an ounce of mercy or grace in this situation.

Water Camper 07-31-2019 03:18 PM

I would like to follow up;

First I would never consider releasing a boat secured to my dock, although I would be tempted !!

I have followed up with the Laconia PD. They suggest that at the present time this is a civil matter. If I want to pursue this I would need to go back to court, ugly.

They did volunteer to come and talk with my neighbor if this does reoccur.

Hope this helps,
Bill

TheTimeTraveler 07-31-2019 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Water Camper (Post 316501)
I would like to follow up;

First I would never consider releasing a boat secured to my dock, although I would be tempted !!

I have followed up with the Laconia PD. They suggest that at the present time this is a civil matter. If I want to pursue this I would need to go back to court, ugly.

They did volunteer to come and talk with my neighbor if this does reoccur.

Hope this helps,
Hill

I would advise you to "Post" your dock with NO TRESPASSING signs to prevent reoccurring issues.

It beats going to Court if you can nip it in the bud.

Not to Worry 07-31-2019 04:25 PM

Friends of ours
 
Some friends of ours allowed their neighbor (neighbor B) to dock their boat at their dock. It was agreeable and they were friends as well. It was always clear that the dock was on neighbors A's side of the property line and had paid for and installed the dock. Neighbors B (who used friends dock) sells house and then dies. Neighbor A also dies and leaves dock and house to family. Yes, they were older folk.

Still following? Neighbor C who bought house from neighbor B now claims he owns the dock that is on Neighbors A's land. Adverse possession is the claim and they are headed to court. Meanwhile neighbors C uses the dock as he pleases.

I know it will cost a lot of money to fight it out and if neighbor C can prove adverse possession he may win the dock.

Just goes to show you no good deed ever goes unpunished.

tis 07-31-2019 04:42 PM

Not to worry, isn't it too bad that you can't be nice to anybody any more?

TMI Guy 07-31-2019 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not to Worry (Post 316509)
Some friends of ours allowed their neighbor (neighbor B) to dock their boat at their dock. It was agreeable and they were friends as well. It was always clear that the dock was on neighbors A's side of the property line and had paid for and installed the dock. Neighbors B (who used friends dock) sells house and then dies. Neighbor A also dies and leaves dock and house to family. Yes, they were older folk.

Still following? Neighbor C who bought house from neighbor B now claims he owns the dock that is on Neighbors A's land. Adverse possession is the claim and they are headed to court. Meanwhile neighbors C uses the dock as he pleases.

I know it will cost a lot of money to fight it out and if neighbor C can prove adverse possession he may win the dock.

Just goes to show you no good deed ever goes unpunished.

The fact pattern given here does not lead to adverse possession, based on the common understanding of the doctrine (I don't know what the New Hampshire common law precedent is). Specifically, the use of the dock by neighbor B was not "hostile."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/adverse_possession

Slickcraft 07-31-2019 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not to Worry (Post 316509)
Some friends of ours allowed their neighbor (neighbor B) to dock their boat at their dock. It was agreeable and they were friends as well. It was always clear that the dock was on neighbors A's side of the property line and had paid for and installed the dock. Neighbors B (who used friends dock) sells house and then dies. Neighbor A also dies and leaves dock and house to family. Yes, they were older folk.

Still following? Neighbor C who bought house from neighbor B now claims he owns the dock that is on Neighbors A's land. Adverse possession is the claim and they are headed to court. Meanwhile neighbors C uses the dock as he pleases.

I know it will cost a lot of money to fight it out and if neighbor C can prove adverse possession he may win the dock.

Just goes to show you no good deed ever goes unpunished.

My understanding of the law is if B was given permission by A then adverse possession does not apply. Anyway it is sad that C types exist.

Woody38 07-31-2019 06:08 PM

Adverse possession is invalid if one has been granted permission.
Call the police or MP and hand them the court order and tell them to get the offender to remove and maybe arrest them.

That being said I MIGHT set the boat free in the middle of the night. If questioned, I would say. What boat. If you tied a boat there you must not have secured it properly.

___________________________

I am a retired workaholic and continuing aquaholic

Outdoorsman 07-31-2019 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slickcraft (Post 316517)
My understanding of the law is if B was given permission by A then adverse possession does not apply. Anyway it is sad that C types exist.

Shamefully, the "person" that claims to be a lawyer has suggested just setting the boat adrift..... regardless of consequences...

MAXUM 07-31-2019 06:15 PM

There is also a provision in the law that states that the person claiming adverse possession must be the one to occupy said property for a set period of time. This cannot, I would think, be conveyed or claimed through the purchase of a piece of property by another party.

Then again I'm just a forum lawyer so what the heck do I know.

Major 07-31-2019 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not to Worry (Post 316509)
Some friends of ours allowed their neighbor (neighbor B) to dock their boat at their dock. It was agreeable and they were friends as well. It was always clear that the dock was on neighbors A's side of the property line and had paid for and installed the dock. Neighbors B (who used friends dock) sells house and then dies. Neighbor A also dies and leaves dock and house to family. Yes, they were older folk.

Still following? Neighbor C who bought house from neighbor B now claims he owns the dock that is on Neighbors A's land. Adverse possession is the claim and they are headed to court. Meanwhile neighbors C uses the dock as he pleases.

I know it will cost a lot of money to fight it out and if neighbor C can prove adverse possession he may win the dock.

Just goes to show you no good deed ever goes unpunished.

I’m going from my bad memory from law school but adverse possession requires that the use must be hostile. This doesn’t seem to be the case. Also, the possession must be for 20 years. I’m not sure whether this requirement is met. Finally, a new owner cannot tack on to the prior owner’s use. Again, I’m not sure whether this applies.

The lack of hostile possession seems to be the key.


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Wifi-1 07-31-2019 07:25 PM

The word "hostile", altho used in the law, may not conform to what one might think. Reference:

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclope...ion-claim.html

Major 07-31-2019 07:44 PM

Correct but I think the fact that the neighbor had permission negates hostile possession.


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LIforrelaxin 08-01-2019 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Water Camper (Post 316205)
What are my rights when a neighbor ties a boat up to my
dock without permission ?

Bill

I think I saw the right answer, from others, but I will respond..... Your right is to call law enforcement. If you are on the mainland, I would start by calling your local police department. If you are on an Island I would start with the Marine Patrol.

Your premise that the neighbor is trespassing is correct. Police involvement when ensure that you don't do anything outside law. And if your neighbor is less then co-operative, they will deal with the issue for you.

Major 08-01-2019 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin (Post 316554)
I think I saw the right answer, from others, but I will respond..... Your right is to call law enforcement. If you are on the mainland, I would start by calling your local police department. If you are on an Island I would start with the Marine Patrol.

Your premise that the neighbor is trespassing is correct. Police involvement when ensure that you don't do anything outside law. And if your neighbor is less then co-operative, they will deal with the issue for you.

Life, I think you missed the OP's follow up. "I have followed up with the Laconia PD. They suggest that at the present time this is a civil matter. If I want to pursue this I would need to go back to court, ugly."

This is a civil, not criminal matter. The police and marine patrol will not want to be involved.

robmac 08-01-2019 09:52 AM

Another issue is, what if the trespassers have had a few adult beverages and someone fall and is injured on your property? I know you pay and have to pay an attorney to mitagate the amount then fight with the insurance company! Me I would have already posted NO TRESPASSING sign on the dock

Woody38 08-01-2019 12:07 PM

Yes, the claim has to have been hostile and existed for 20 years. The fact that the previous owner had permission negates all of this. The new owner can only clain adverse possession if s/he has been using the property knowingly by the true owner and in hostility for 20 years.

Possible counter suit/ slap suit.

__________________________________________

I am a retired workaholic and continuing aquaholic

LIforrelaxin 08-01-2019 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major (Post 316555)
Life, I think you missed the OP's follow up. "I have followed up with the Laconia PD. They suggest that at the present time this is a civil matter. If I want to pursue this I would need to go back to court, ugly."

This is a civil, not criminal matter. The police and marine patrol will not want to be involved.

If the Laconia PD, isn't willing to follow up, then there is a problem, or Trespassing is some how just a civil infraction in NH.

Given the situation, I would suggest skipping over the Laconia PD, and next try the Marine Patrol... As Jurisdictional wise, they probably have the Jurisdiction, as it involves the State Water Way....

If the Marine Patrol will not deal with it... Then its time to call the State Representative for the Town, and sit down with them....

While the infraction may now be dealt with... As a homeowner you and have to have a avenue to resolve what is a criminal transgression, by your neighbor.... I understand the Laconia PD stand point, as often these issues will just resolve them selves.... Which is why it is important to report it to them, so the incident, and future incidents are logged.

Would I want my neighbor to go to jail, most certainly not... Would I like to have their boat safely removed from my property yes.... So I suppose in this light you could just call Sea Tow, and maybe they would come remove the vehicle.....

Descant 08-01-2019 01:23 PM

Homeowners Insurance
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by robmac (Post 316559)
Another issue is, what if the trespassers have had a few adult beverages and someone fall and is injured on your property? I know you pay and have to pay an attorney to mitagate the amount then fight with the insurance company! Me I would have already posted NO TRESPASSING sign on the dock

If somebody is injured on your property, there is recovery available from your medical payments coverage. Don't have to prove "fault". If there is a legal claim (lawsuit) your liability coverage includes defense costs as well as settlement if any. You call your insurance company and go back down to the dock and count the wavers as they go by. Fussing with lawyers is not an issue here.

Kamper 08-01-2019 01:46 PM

If this gets/becomes nastier, you can also ask the police to give the neighbor a "Tresspass Warning." After that, the police can supposedly arrest them any time they are on your property.

Then... Chain the boat to your dock and call it in when they come back to get it.

hd333 08-01-2019 03:35 PM

Since there appears to be history of conflict between you and your neighbor I would put up small unobtrusive no trespassing signs were they would tie up their boat, I say small so it isn’t an eyesore to you.

I would also draft up an invoice for the time their boat was docked at your dock. $100 a day sounds reasonable.




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WinnisquamZ 08-01-2019 04:14 PM

The LPD are wrong. This is in their jurisdiction. As a elder couple, the wife and I fearful of our property and possible harm have the right to defend yourself. Lawn chair and shotgun then call the LPD. Bet they handle the issue a bit more serious


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nj2nh 08-07-2019 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major (Post 316363)
I disagree. A police officer or marine patrol officer would not consider this criminal behavior, but instead a civil dispute. The only recourse the OP has is to go back to court with evidence showing a violation of the court order. This isn't necessarily as simple as it appears. Contempt violations are very difficult to prove.

The issue here is respect and a violation of boundaries. When I wrote my original post, I did not know that there was a history between the OP and the neighbor. Had I known that there was already a court order in place, I most definitely would have untied his boat. The OP is dealing with a bully, and as my mother taught me at a young age, you punch a bully in the nose. He doesn't respect the OP nor any of his rights. The neighbor (and his son) aren't interested in discussing the issue. I realize the boat may cause damage if untied, but the risk is probably pretty low and one that I would be willing to take. It may seem irresponsible to some, but I am not going to let anyone violate my personal property and space. As someone noted above, bullies take advantage of people trying to be nice and act reasonable. With this neighbor, the next thing you know he's on your property and treating it as his own.

That said, no one enjoys confrontation, but sometimes a stand needs to be made. I am sorry the OP had to deal with this. To go through the effort of obtaining a court order shows what he's been through. Unfortunately, there are no easy solutions.

Hate to tell you, but violation of a court order is a criminal offense.


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nj2nh 08-07-2019 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major (Post 316422)
This was answered in the prior thread provided by Kamper. Difficult, if not impossible to find someone to tow the boat. Marine patrol won't do it. Private tow boats won't either. Also, I'm not sure how it works with a car parked in a private driveway. If I call a tow company to tow a car parked in my parking space without permission, does the tow company automatically just tow the car? Again this is a civil issue, not criminal. My guess is that you would have to get a court order to tow the vehicle.

Trespassing is a criminal offense. It might only be municipal, but it is still criminal once he tells them to move it and they do not.


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nj2nh 08-07-2019 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not to Worry (Post 316509)
Some friends of ours allowed their neighbor (neighbor B) to dock their boat at their dock. It was agreeable and they were friends as well. It was always clear that the dock was on neighbors A's side of the property line and had paid for and installed the dock. Neighbors B (who used friends dock) sells house and then dies. Neighbor A also dies and leaves dock and house to family. Yes, they were older folk.

Still following? Neighbor C who bought house from neighbor B now claims he owns the dock that is on Neighbors A's land. Adverse possession is the claim and they are headed to court. Meanwhile neighbors C uses the dock as he pleases.

I know it will cost a lot of money to fight it out and if neighbor C can prove adverse possession he may win the dock.

Just goes to show you no good deed ever goes unpunished.

Adverse possession takes over 21 years to be established and is impossible to prove.


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nj2nh 08-07-2019 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major (Post 316529)
I’m going from my bad memory from law school but adverse possession requires that the use must be hostile. This doesn’t seem to be the case. Also, the possession must be for 20 years. I’m not sure whether this requirement is met. Finally, a new owner cannot tack on to the prior owner’s use. Again, I’m not sure whether this applies.

The lack of hostile possession seems to be the key.


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I clearly remember a life in being plus 21 years. And, yes, it has to be hostile. Not with permission.


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