How to save money on electricity
 

I was discussing privately about cost of heating with electric and this topic came up.

I figured I'd post my reply publicly.

I can't stress enough how much these devices have saved me. I've helped two friends install them. Both of them cut their bill in half. Like one friend we learned he had a bad battery sitting in a charger and it was accounting for like 1/4 of his electric bill. Small devices that are constant on can chew up a lot of watts.

It will be the first thing I install in any house.

The one below is VERY pricey. But it is also extreme good. You can get devices like this much cheaper and get most of what you need. But this one goes the extra mile and is worth it.

We pay the highest rates of electricity in the country in the Northeast.

Now some my saving point out things like a pool pump I ran. And so I replaced that with a fairly expensive variable speed pump. That might take 10 years to pay back. That's fine with me.

Another really common one is HVAC systems. Modern HVAC systems run a HEATER in the winter to keep the freon warm. If it doesn't freon will condense in the oil and if you fire it up cold you ruin the compressor. But if you don't run the compressor over winter, I disconnect it. But in the spring I plug it in, and NOT run it for a few days. The freon will "boil" out of the oil again and it's safe to start. The luxury of starting the AC any time is why they put these heaters in. All modern AC systems have it. If you use your AC (Heatpump for heat) then of course you cannot turn it off.

Little things like timers, motion sensors etc. add up. But they do take a long time to pay back.

https://www.amazon.com/Sense-Energy-.../dp/B075K6PHJ9

Electric rates are high because crooked electric and gas companies charge three to four times as more for delivery then supply.

Next time take a look at your bill. Delivery charges will have things like, transmission, transition, CEO needs a new car fees.
If you get a bill for $150, I can guarantee you 80% would be transmission and 20% supply.

We lose power every time the wind blows. That is the cherry on top.

We're out on the Columbia River....hydro and wind supply all our electricity....the Bonneville Dam can supply 186,000 homes! Our electric bills are ridiculously low compared to when we lived in Massachusetts....

Good for you.. I am glad that your electric bill is lower in
"Portland, Vancouver, Longview, Tri-Cities, Revelstoke"

I am in Laconia and I pay ridiculous Eversource rates.

Yes, electric rates are high. We have a Dyson Heat+cool in all three of our homes. Just recently got the one in Massachusetts and used it twice. Located in the kitchen so the temp was 66 degrees in the family room during breakfast. After using only the Dyson, the temp in the family room was 68, the ceiling is two story there and the dining room was 68 also. Great little heater and will find out if it saves any electric (hopefully).

__________________________________


I am a retired workaholic and continuing aquaholic

The best way to offset that is to own Eversource stock or some other electric utility. They are pretty steady and usually pay a substantial dividend. Everyone needs electricity. It's right up there with food, clothing, and shelter.
They do exceptionally well when interest rates are low, like now.
I've owned Eversource since it was Boston Edison, almost 40 years. :cheers:

Hahahaha! Never thought about that!

We pay $260/mth. year-round for our 2,200 ft² home that's all electric with central AC. We've considered changing energy sources, and we really should in terms of overall costs, but the initial outlay and potential issues have prevented us from doing so.

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Yes, good move.

For others out there: Have you ever heard of a Utility that doesn't generate money year and after year?

Yes, they are regulated, but they they are regulated to make money to keep them in business......

Rates were much cheaper before the split?
The supply rates stayed pretty steady year after year, transmission rates went thru the roof.

And if you have Eversource and go with one of those other cut rate electric companies they have to pay Eversource to deliver that electricity through their lines. So they still make money on delivery charges.

Are you implying your cooling bill is $260/ month in July and August and $260 / month in January and February for heating with Electric heat?
You must have SUPER high efficiency units.

Best way to stick it to your local electric company is to buy solar. You cut their revenue, they are forced to buy your excess juice in the summer, and--ON TOP OF THAT--they pay you cash (in Mass) for your generation through the SMART program.

No, the "budget" system splits our total estimated charges into twelve. Our total electric bill for the year is ~$3,100.

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...and your heating with electric!!?? You have nothing to complain about at that price!! You must have a super energy efficient home!!

Dan

Sense
 

We have had one of the Sense monitors for over 2 years now.
Great product and with the SW tools included does help understand what is really going on with power draw. Also no monthly fees...

Honestly, I've only ever had my parents", which was the same size, house to compare with. Their NG + electric, in northern MA, was ~$220/mth. so our electric was high but not high enough to change and lose what we see as electric heat benefits.


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About four years ago I put a Mitsubishi split system in a one bedroom condo in the Weirs Beach area that I built to rent, and eventually sell. It has high ceilings and a loft over the bedroom. I was concerned that the Mitsubishi unit would not be sufficient if there was a stretch of below 0 weather so I also put baseboard electric in the living room, bathroom, and bedroom, each with their own thermostat.

After the first winter I questioned the tenant about how often he used the baseboard heaters and he said "never, I don't even know if they work". I asked about his electric bill and he said the highest monthly bill was in the $90's even during the winter. That is heat, electric hot water, electric washer/dryer and light. It doesn't get much better. It is on the market now and the new owner will be shocked when he sees how low the electric bill is.

Agree. Have a four head heat/ac unit. No time during the winter did it not push heat. A plus is the air is not as dry as the baseboard heat. Also, the electric co came out this past spring to replace my meter thinking it was faulty due to the reduced bills


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After 26 years of living in a house with electric resistance baseboard heat and window a/c, we sold and moved to our current home which has propane heat and traditional central a/c.

The house was harder to sell and in my estimation we took a $15k-$20k price hit when selling due to the electric heat.

Last fall I had a Mitsubishi mini split system installed in our cottage.

It is extremely quiet inside and out and cools well.

The extra bonus is it's heating capability.

An electrician friend once told me that using the mini split system to heat was much cheaper than my electric baseboards but I was skeptical.

After seeing my cottage electric bill go down I am a believer!

Had I purchased a similar system for my previous residence the cost would have been recovered at the sale and I would have enjoyed many years of quiet, cheaper, comfort.

"A good idea, when executed sooner, becomes a better idea" is advice I often give.

I wish I had listened to my friend.

I think your point on resale value with mini splits is so true and often missed when deciding if upfront costs for the units are worth it. Most look for payback in electricity savings only and never factor in resale value. Great point!!

Dan

Can you tell me...
 

...what are your average annual charges for the period December through March?

I think your response is the only one on topic of using something like a Sense to manage your usage.

I kinda got hooked on monitoring usage when we got Solar down in MA (I didn't want to go over what we produced).

I hope to install Solar in NH some day.

Lowering your home electricity use by lowering the outdoor hot tub down to 102, or turning off the kitchen lights seems to make a small difference in monthly cost but not all that much.

A lot of the monthly bill is baked into the monthly billing recipe and doesn't increase or decease very much depending on the volume of your electricity use. The electric bill has something like nine different categories of different fees that get totaled up.

Isn't this correct ...... :eek:?

Meanwhile ..... my NHEC service is extremely reliable, hardly ever goes out, and when it does due to a big wind or something, it always comes back on in one or two hours. The Electric Co-Op has a service facility with a number of utility trucks on Rt-25 in Meredith ...... that is always ready to get going and go hit that outage repair. The service is very, very reliable.

What comes with the monthly electric bill is electricity reliability and safety ..... absolutely never-ever a destructive power surge, here. The electric service is so reliable that it is amazingly 99.88% reliable and my place still uses the vintage-1950, 60-amp service with two big, fat 30-amp cartridge fuses and glass screw-in plug fuses. Viva ye olde 1950 fuse panel ....... :sleeping: ....... same old electric panel which was used by Elvis and Ann Margaret in Viva Las Vegas ....... now, that's reliability ....... so's you can go Viva Las Electricity while you is hula-hoop'n ...... down on the dock!

We've been in our home for 13 years and have done nothing for the electric baseboard other than install smart thermostats. If we took a $15k hit in resale, I think it would easily be comparable to what it would have cost to replace/maintain/repair a NG/LP system. My parents paid a couple hundred bucks every year or two for maintenance and something like $10k to replace their furnace. In 13 years, I've spent $600 TOTAL other than electricity. And with very little chance of change, we could get another 20 years for free.

I know electric baseboard isn't the best, but when everything is considered—speed, flexibility, noise, air movement/hot spots, maintenance costs, etc. it's close enough that we've never jumped.


Does anyone know of less expensive monitoring systems? This thread has me thinking of all the little things I have plugged in all the time, like my weed whacker battery charger, 12V chargers, etc.

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The home I bought 6 years ago in Meredith has oil fired hot water/baseboard heat but I saw remnants of electric baseboard in all the rooms. The house was built in the late 80's when heating bills were high.
I was told by the realtor that the previous owner had to put in a "real" heating system when he went to refinance as electric baseboard heat didn't qualify as a "real" heating system? :laugh:
Anyway, after I bought the place I replace the boiler and had an electrician come out and look at all the electrical. He found that the wires to the electric baseboards, which were just cut off at the floor, were still live 230V.:eek:
I'm still considering adding mini splits for AC and added back up for heat but right now it's pretty cheap to heat with oil.

For a second source of heat, go check out the Rinnai direct vent propane, hot air space heaters ...... maybe $3000, installed by Dead River or Amerigas, plus you get a q-tank and a propane contract.

The Rinnai direct vent propane make excellent quality hot air heat, will go for like 20-years with no service needed, are good looking appliances in beige or white, will make strong hot heat starting in three minutes times, and will turn itself back on when the electricity goes out and then comes back on, an hour later or whenever the power comes back on.

I was not going to chime in but now I HAVE TO.

Fours years ago, at the suggestion of the “expert” (expert my A$$) we had Rinnai combi boiler installed.

Does it work – YES
Does it provide heat and hot water – YES and YES
Does it fit in a small closet – YES
Was the instillation a huge hassle – YES
Is it energy efficient – OH YES, YES.
Was it costly – OH YES. You need all kinds of special vents, drains, air flows, switches etc. etc.

Do we like it – NO, I HATE THE DAMN thing. It breaks every 6 months or so.
Last repair was to replace the switch that switches between heat and hot water. Before that some gasket started leaking, the whole thing had to be taken apart and cleaned.

Thankfully, I was able to sue Rinnai and they refunded me every single penny.

Now it is under Eastern propane contract costing me app. $275 a year. Includes yearly cleaning and all labor and parts for the year.
Would I get another one, NO WAY.

Go get a BURNHAM. You can not go wrong with it.
Last one lasted me 35 years with no issues, no service calls.

No comparison, a mini split will heat and cool at with much more efficiency.Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

It costs more like 7k, when all the bells and whistles are done.
Rinni manual shows, service is NEEDED every two years. That is more like every year.

I've heard that same complaint from friends that have installed those new systems, not just Rinnai but other brands also.
They are more efficient than the old tried and true cast iron boiler but require a lot more service and not as dependable.

In addition to a less expensive monitoring system option, I'd be interested in a good resource to read about mini-splits. We've got air ducts in our attic for AC, so we've considered a heat-pump/AC that would run through that as well.

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I think this forum is a good resource if you do a search on Mini Splits or Mitsubishi. Many here have had them installed and reported back their reviews as well as the savings. They are extremely tough to beat!

Dan

There is a Mitsubishi dealer/store in Gilford.

Last year, I was quoted 12+k for three units and the outside unit, installed.
I thought he was joking.

Home Energy
 

Most in the area use Home Energy in Belmont...Great people to deal with!

Dan

A buddy of mine just had a 12000 BTU unit with one inside head installed by them for 4K which I thought was very reasonable.
They did a great job and he was very happy, also got the energy rebate which reduced the final cost.

How do you get away with one head if you have multiple bedrooms.
I suppose you can leave the doors open

He just wanted it in the main living area of his ranch. He lives on Stinson mountain in Rumney and says it cools down enough at night that he doesn't need it in his bedrooms.

Our most recent electric bill in Massachusetts for a 3,285 s/f house was $100.
That was a month of air conditioning. I added 6 inches of insulation in the attic. Next month we are installing 21 insulated windows. The AC was updated a few years ago with the highest SEER that Lennox had at the time.

___________________________________

I am a retired workaholic and continuing aquaholic

Is that an all electric house (water heater, stove, dryer, etc.)?

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2345 s/f house in Mass w/ new Harvey Windows and Siding.
10+ year old Goodman A/C system.
$300.00 Electric bill in July and August. We set it to 70.

I suppose it would go down if we were install a better A/C System, I can not imagine the bill going down to $ 100. No way, no how.

I recently installed a split ac from mr cool. It is not the highest quality but it allows you to do diy. It costed me around 1000k which is nothing compared the quotes that i got from hvac people. We save good amount compared to electric bill from baseboard heaters. I use my older baseboard heaters as a back up. Single split ac cools and heats our small 900 sq ft place no problem.

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It is not an all electric home. We have gas water heater (new one installed last year), our plumber put in a Rheem, which I do not like that brand. The controls are near the floor so I have to get on my knees to change settings. Gas furnace, one in basement for first floor and one in attic for the second floor. Attic unit is Lennox as we installed after the Goodman went berserk in 2008, The basement unit was installed by the builder and I do not know the brand. We have Fisher&Pakyal washer dryer. The dryer runs mainly by magnet I think. Electric 36 inch induction cooktop, Wolf warming drawer, Wolf double oven and 42 inch Sub zero side by side refer. Thermostat on second floor set at 68 (67 at night for heat) and 65 for cooling. First floor heat set at 68 during the day and 66 at night. Cooling set at 64 or 65. BTW we love Sub Zero, this is the 4th we have had. Keeps strawberry fresh for at least a month and there are certain drawers for different veggies etc.

______________________________________

I am a retired workaholic and retired aquaholic

Sense installed.

Also used an older cheap monitor to monitor water pump that is leaking.

At current temps I estimate about $350 /month if we stayed full time.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...a269d5_h_d.jpg

$350/mth. for heating or all electricity? And the current temps are just a start—they'll continue to drop and will include many windy/overcast days.

Also, isn't the heating energy relationship an exponential one as the inside vs. outside temp gap increases? Maybe someone here (or you?) knows.

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Looks like the insulation on the three main feed wires on top have melted a little.

Looks like oxide inhibitor on the aluminum conductors.

Nothing is melted. That’s probably anti oxidation goop slathered on that you see.

That was my whole point. At “current temps” that’s my current burn rate.

But the last couple nights are pretty common even in mid winter.

I hope to make it to end of November. Working from home Friday through Monday. Pump house is most vulnerable where the line is a foot off the ground as it goes into the pump house. It has a back pressure valve leak so the pump is running a lot which probably will protect it.

That’s all electricity. But heating is 90% of it. And the leaky pump is probably another 10%. $34/mo for the leaky pump.

Already put down, down payment on new Well to be drilled in 3 months.

The old power monitor I decided to stick on the pump just saved my pump (maybe) and a huge electric bill.

The pump hasn't been running great. It has a back flow valve leak (probably debris in the valve in the water). It was painful to shut off and re-prime and to late in the season to start repairs. Not even sure I'll need the pump by spring if the Well gets installed on schedule. So I just left it. Probably been running that way all summer.

For grins, I popped up the app to check on things and I noticed it was pulling 1000 watts instead of 1200 or 0. Then I looked at history and I knew something was very wrong. It did not get cold enough last night to be trouble. It was much colder the night before and we were there then and all was fine.

I sent a good neighbor over to shut it down. He said the pump was not too hot. All I can think of is the back pressure leak got worse and it lost its prime between cycles.

Lake level is fine. What's funny though is, the moment he unplugged it the other Monitor (the "Sense" one I suggested at the start of this thread). Popped up 3 discovered devices. It was confused with this "new" mystery device pulling a constant ~1000 watts.

Saturday - This is it running "Normal" (still very poorly, but it was getting the job done)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...392a14_b_d.jpg




Sunday - also it's bad "Normal"

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...93635a_b_d.jpg




Monday, running non stop.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...93635a_b_d.jpg

Paid my Mass bill this morning... $46.00 in actual electricity almost $57.00 for delivery. :eek:

Exactly my point.
Eversource is worse than National Grid.

MA paid me, not a problem.

They had fantastic incentives for Solar. Why do think Solar companies were constantly calling and pushing solar a few years back. Because they would get those incentives.