Kayak fees
 

Last week I saw that Fish and Game was looking for people. Tonight I heard on channel 9 they dont have enough money. Someone is proposing a kayak fee as a way of increasing revenue. I even heard that kayakers are hogging the boat ramps. And they dont pay fees! Boaters who pay fees cant use the ramps because there's no parking. Really? This idea has come up before but I dont think it was comsidered. How would they collect fees and how would they enforce it? We dont have enough F&G or marine patrol now. And they'd have to check kayak permits too? Watch out for new legislation and taxes by people who dont boat or kayak. They smell revenue.

If the State requires permits for kayaks they should probably include canoes, paddle boards, and anything else that floats.

They could easily raise revenue by ticketing violators of the 150’ rule on Lake Winnipesaukee.

kayak fees, what is this world coming too:emb:

Just raise property taxes on the waterfront properties in the state... problem solved and the yakers can use the launches for free still!

Or keep kayaks out of the power boat launching sites


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I hope you are kidding? Waterfront taxes are high enough already. Just because people own waterfront doesn’t mean they need to additionally subsidize Fish and Game.


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Yea, let’s raise taxes on property owners from out of state. That way we residents of NH can once again dump the responsibility of financing our state on others. Heaven forbid we add an income tax and actually have the ability to fully finance the services we provide our residents and visitors!


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This discussion brings to light the concept of taxing the users of goverment services.

Some would argue that only those directly involved in the activity that generates government expense should pay.

Some might contend that it is one for all and all for one so spread out the expense to everyone.

My main concern is revenue and spending efficiency.

For each new dollar brought in, what was the administrative cost to get it?

For each dollar spent, what amount would be considered “waste”?

NH has always been a "User Fee" type state... I have no problem with making the canoe/kayak/sailboat crowd pay a small fee... a $10 registration sticker would be ok. No silly paperwork to carry...

Woodsy

Kayak fees
 

You can launch at most State parks without tying up the ramps and parking areas and you have paid to use the facility


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I think some kind of sticker for kayakers, canoes,SUPS etc., for $5 or so wouldn’t break anyone’s bank and would help the state coffers as long as the funds went directly to oversee NH lakes and waterways enforcement.
At times, kayaks and the like might pose a danger to boaters by being where they’re not expected to be (middle of the lake)
The issue of these water “vehicles” owners jamming up parking lots which were created for boaters is real. Why not make them pay a fee as well?
They are vehicles designed for moving around on a body of water, the same as a boat. I have also seen fishing kayaks with electric motors for propulsion.
Not sure if these require any registrations but they should as they use a parking space at a lot and cruise the lakes.
No way am I in favor of more govt. but people that use state resources for free should be paying a share. I also believe hike safe cards should be mandatory.
One time on a visit to Ragged Is. the beach on the west side was jammed with kayaks from the camp across the way on Sandy Is. The campers beached their kayaks on a spot that is designed for everyone’s use and left them there while cavorting elsewhere on the island. My family and I had to leave the beach because there was nowhere to enjoy it without tripping over the kayaks.
I called the camp on Sandy island and spoke to a very gracious, “director” about the kayaks and she agreed that the campers should not have blocked access to the resource with their boats. She said this was wrong and assured that the councilors would be told not to do this on their forays on the lake.

Seriously?
 

I very much doubt that NH will seriously look at implementing a fee for non motorized "boats." I did a quick search and came up with nothing mentioning and fee discussion from any elected official in NH. Maybe it is out there but I could not find it.

It was on the news last night.... here is a link!


https://www.wmur.com/article/commiss...blems/22987740

Woodsy

Feel free to send 6% of your hard-earned income to the State of NH Department of Revenue. I'm sure they'll appreciate it, and may even send you a thank you note. :rolleye1: On the other hand, I want to keep the State out of my wallet, so NO INCOME TAX!

If the government bureaucrats had their way they would require everyones paycheck to be sent to them first so they could take what they want (not need) and give us what's left over.

I vote NO on ANY new taxes for water vehicles!

SB410 (New Title) establishing a commission to study creating a boat safe card; signed by the Governor May 30, 2018. The report is due November 1, 2018, in time for legislation for 2019. A boat safe card, like a hike safe card would be voluntary. That may not be what the commission finds, of course.
It isn't just boat launches that are paid for by power boats. Power boats also pay for invasive species(milfoil) control, and the Navigation Safety Fund (MP) That benefits everybody, swimmers, yakkers, etc. Fish and Game also runs Search and Rescue. I don't know the numbers, but every spring we hear about S & R for accidents on spring rapids, canoes, kayaks, etc. Kayaks found but no knowledge of a paddler. Lost overboard or just the kayak blew away?

Lots of good points implied here. If you follow the reasoning, the conclusion would be to increase the fees on boats that currently require registration (this would include my own boat). First, these larger boats have a much bigger "footprint", so owners are bigger users of the lake and associated services. Second, it costs the state nothing to increase the price of a license it already sells.

Also, with respect to fees, the lake is unusual compared to similar resources such as state parks. To walk up Monandnock, just for example, I need to pay $10(?). But I can launch a boat, which has a much bigger impact in every way, for free.

You don't launch your boat for free... most of the boat ramps are town owned/supported by town taxpayers and are usually only for town taxpayers. The State Ramps are supported & maintained by your boat registration fees and are open to everyone.

I am not a fan of an income tax. I am very ok with the "user Fee" mentality of NH... if you want to use the resource, you can pay to help maintain it. I have long thought Canoes/kayaks/sailboats should pay something... I don't think a $10/yr user fee is going to break anyones bank.

Also, someone mentioned the "Hike Safe" card... there should be one for the human/wind powered watercraft crowd as well!

Woodsy

Are you kidding... how will I pay for my $20 lobster roll and $10 craft beer! This is outrageous that anyone should have to pay! Can't wait for democrats to get elected, impeach Trump and give us all the free things they promised! That'll show you all!!

If the Fish & Game is successful in taxing canoes and kayaks, what will be next?

Inflatable floats, buggie boards, stand up paddle boards???

The premise is the same, all these are also enjoying the use of our lakes and waterways.

This needs to stop now, before it gets out of hand

“My advice for those who die...

declare the pennies on there eyes”

It's true Rinkerguy, they never have enough money. No it wouldn't break anybody to pay a small fee for a kayak or a canoe. But we have a kayak and two canoes and I haven't used any of them at all this year. So I am not sure I would even bother to register them unless I knew I was going to have time to use them. As far as an income tax, NH does have an income tax. BPT (Business Profit Tax) and BET (Business Enterprise Tax) are nothing more than income taxes on businesses and business and professional people. And I really don't think state and federal government should be buying millions of dollars of private land.

I don't mind the power boat related F&G fee, we use the boat all season long.

We have a canoe and kayaks that are used 2 or 3 times a year. Like many they are not launched at a ramp.

I have never seen paddle sport folk clogging a launch ramp. In general they could usually launch to the side of a power boat ramp. On a busy day it is the power boats using a ramp one after another.

OK F&G is underfunded and we do need those guys and gals around. So our two kayaks are the answer?

There is a voluntary "hike safe card" that also applies to paddling. If you don't buy a card then you may have to pay for any rescue.
https://wildlife.state.nh.us/safe/

... a $20 annual NH water usage stamp!
 

Considering the White Mountain National Forest now charges $30/year for a vehicle parking sticker that gets mounted on the lower right corner of the windshield, the State of New Hampshire could consider an annual $20 water usage stamp for non-motorized vessels like canoes, kayaks, rowboats, sailboats, peddle boats, stand up paddle boards, and others.

Just designate the money goes toward lake-river-ocean related items like the NH Fish & Game Dept, launch ramps, and removing invasive species, and other items like saving the loons, and keeping phosphorus out of the lake.

Paying nothing gets you nothing, and paying $20 would help pay for everything, plus the MP could fine you $116.88, first offense, for stand up paddle boarding without a water usage stamp:banana: ....... that's right! ...... slap the cuffs on, Barney, we got us a new customer!

How would a kayak sticker regulation be applied to folks coming from away?

(A little NFL lingo there :D)

This issue has come up before:

2006:
https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ead.php?t=3998

2014:
https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ad.php?t=16868

2016: You're reading it!

When you register a motorboat in NH for the year, you get the same benefits or services as buying the $25/35 hike safe card such as getting carried in a litter down the Lions Head Trail on Mt Washington which would be a very steep and difficult rescue carry ..... no fool'n!
...............

People from away, would need to purchase a non-motorized water usage stamp for $20/year ....... could pay with four-$5, two-$10, 20-$1 .... their choice!

Do people from away have to purchase a $45 fishing license ........ yes, they do.

You have to purchase a stamp before you put your boat in the water in Maine if you're an out of stater, even though the registration is reciprocal.

In the "old days" every boat that went on the lake had to register in this state. Now of course they don't.

Me-thinks that 1987 was the last year with the NH little metal boat license plate that was a mini version of a car license plate. T-h-o-s-e ...... w-e-r-e ..... t-h-e ......g-o-o-d ...... o-l-d ...... d-a-y-s ........ (Archie Bunker sings)

Getting the kayak sticker to actually stick to the kayak would be the responsibilty of the paddler ........ no sticker ....... you must pay a $116.88 fine, first offense ....... and your paddle is confiscated ......so, you is out there without a paddle! ........ rots-o-ruck!

Sorry fll, I meant every power boat had to be registered here even if they had it registered in another state. I remember a lot of people didn't like it if they were just coming up for a week or two on vacation. Boats other than power boats didn't have to be registered at all. Although I think we mostly had row boats in those days, something you don't see too much any more. I don't remember any kayaks.

Still think no fee will ever happen
 

Thanks for the link I did listen to and now understand where this came from. I personally do not believe they will place a free on a non motorized kayak canoe, etc. Having said that I am sure they will find additional dollars somewhere. Maybe more fees on snowmobiles, boats, fishing, hunting licenses etc...but not kayaks. Least that is what I think.

Just no, to more fees!:rolleye1:

...I have to register my 12' Sunfish sailboat :) why not my 3 kayaks ;)

Pay up, suckers!

While We Talk, Concord Plots...!
 

If fees are collected for "use", why aren't fees calculated for the number of acres-per-second a boat would use—before it would become an infringement of other watercraft rights? :look:

Years ago, the NH Gazeteer sounded the death knell for canoes on Lake Winnipesaukee. Canoes, though still legal, are justifiably becoming an "endangered species". It's just too difficult to remain upright after being struck by a wake from oversized boats—with their non-empathic skippers. Kayaks have a familiar danger, as recently, a kayak was sliced in half by a distracted "Captain".

Kayaks are somewhat easier to control, but even their days are numbered.

Concord is reviewing this kayak proposal closely, as they've already spent the funding with which they'd previously absconded—from the NHMP. :mad:

Absconded?
 

Yes, APS, they took the funds that Director Barrett had saved to rehab the old MP HQ. And they built a facility that will work for the next 50 years. Wise decisions in my book, especially after a tour of the new building and the environmental considerations that went into its design. Thank you Lt.

Perhaps sailboats should pay a double registration fee because their inherent right of way occupies more space than a GFBL which is in its space for a VERY limited time, while the sailboat is there, exercising RoW forever?

Time to consider others? Maybe the legislature should revoke sailboat R o W as a fairness issue?
When I hear the Mount blow her horn repeatedly in the broads, it isn't a powerboat in the way.

I applaud that you seem to be the only sailor here, sticking up for other sailors, but you need to understand the position of others, especially those powerboats who are paying the bills.

Do powerboats pay a higher rate than sailboats? What about sailboats with auxiliary engines?

I'll bet that my 7'6" inflatable is the smallest registered boat in NH.

Due to it's mighty 15 pound thrust 1979 antique Minn Kota electric trolling motor, a sticker is required.

Any kayak could beat it in a race.

Bend, Not Break...
 

• There's a new NHMP building, but where is the NHMP patrolling? (Not here). :(

• The Mount uses "repeated blasts" as a horn? 'News to me. :rolleye2: Not only have I never been "honked" at, I have found that the Mount acknowledges sailboat presence by steering a very considerate and professional course—and have mentioned it here previously. (Thanks again, Cap'n). :)

• The difference between my powerboat "fee" and unpowered sailboat "fee" is $5. :rolleye1: A NH fee adopted 30 years ago to regulate boats that merely bend New Hampshire's wind, and leave no damaging wakes behind. :rolleye2: