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-   -   Jetsurf (https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27523)

mswlogo 10-09-2021 08:28 AM

Jetsurf
 
I’m surprised I have not heard or seen one of these on the lakes.

Has anyone seen one these self motorized wake boards (gas or electric, foil or no foil), ride one or know dealers in the area?

I’d seriously like to get an electric one but want to test ride first.

Also anyone know if any legal bumps regarding these.

This looks like the most established brand in USA

https://jetsurfusa.com

There are companies that make hydrofoil ones too (efoils). They are much heavier and more awkward to get to the water. But they go much further due to increased efficiency. But they are way more dangerous too.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MC0IeVKpP-4

Descant 10-09-2021 09:14 AM

Another thread?
 
I could (almost) swear there was another thread on these a few months ago, but no use on Winnipesaukee.

Winilyme 10-09-2021 09:54 AM

This was the first year we've seen e-foils on Winni but haven't yet seen those jet boards. In fact, I didn't know they existed until seeing your video.

MeredithMan 10-09-2021 10:27 AM

There's an e-foil in Meredith Bay somewhere
 
This past summer we saw an e-foil out almost every day, (wind and waves permitting), here in Meredith Bay. Pretty cool to watch.

fatlazyless 10-09-2021 10:55 AM

... bow numbers & sticker required?
 
Because these Jet Surf Electrics have an electric motor they need to be registered, with registration bow numbers and yearly sticker that's visible to see just like a jetski or a boat with an engine or a kayak with an electric motor.

If it has a motor like this then it needs to get registered in N.H. and display the bow numbers and sticker.

So, where do you attach the bow numbers? It needs a vertical plate attached to the bow, or somewhere, designed to display bow numbers on both sides big enough to display the bow numbers and sticker.

Is this correct, or is this incorrect? So, how do the NH boat registration-bow number rules apply to a Jet Surf Electric?

The www.jetsurfusa.com has four different pre-owned jetsurfs for sale at prices from $8,000 to $13,000 and these are all a couple-three years old. So, for that type of money, these DEFINITELY want to require a bow numbers registration and NH sticker.

...... blah-blah-blah ...... I rest my case! ...... :eek:

Winilyme 10-09-2021 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless (Post 363186)
Because these Jet Surf Electrics have an electric motor they need to be registered, with registration bow numbers and yearly sticker that's visible to see just like a jetski or a boat with an engine or a kayak with an electric motor.

If it has a motor like this then it needs to get registered in N.H. and display the bow numbers and sticker.

So, where do you attach the bow numbers? It needs a vertical plate attached to the bow, or somewhere, designed to display bow numbers on both sides big enough to display the bow numbers and sticker.

Is this correct, or is this incorrect? So, how do the NH boat registration-bow number rules apply to a Jet Surf Electric?

FLL, I'm disappointed in you. OBVIOUSLY you super glue an extra thick foam noodle around the perimeter of the subject unit and that should give you enough vertical surface area to mount the numbers/stickers. Light weight, multiple colors and extra flotation for an emergency situation.

MeredithMan 10-09-2021 11:20 AM

$$$
 
...so this thread intrigued me to finally read about these e-foil boards. They are not cheap...upwards of $10-12K. And, it seems that the learning process involves quite a bit of falling, at speeds of 10-20MPH. Yikes! :eek:

Would be great to hear input from anyone who has actually used one or bought one....

tis 10-09-2021 11:35 AM

We have them in Winter Harbor. I am not sure if it is exactly like those but they are self motorized wake boards.

fatlazyless 10-09-2021 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winilyme (Post 363187)
FLL, I'm disappointed in you. OBVIOUSLY you super glue an extra thick foam noodle around the perimeter of the subject unit and that should give you enough vertical surface area to mount the numbers/stickers. Light weight, multiple colors and extra flotation for an emergency situation.

..... a foam noodle style, bow numbers mount or something ...... sounds like a good design!

These jet-surfs supposedly will go 33 to 40-mph which seems incredibly fast for using a self-propelled wake board that weighs about 50-lbs ....... weeeeeooooo!!! ... :laugh:

Do electric or gasoline motorized jet boards need to get registered in New Hampshire?

https://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/boating/

"Which boats? All motorized vessels of any size must be registered, in addition to sailboats and sailboards 12 feet or longer."

.....

So, is a motorized jet board considered to be a vessel requiring registration or is it maybe just a super crazy fast, 40-mph water toy, and does not require registration? ....... weeeeoooooo ..... too much fun to not need a registration for some price like $80 plus that brings up the issue of insurance specific to the one jetboard ..... :laugh: ..... at 40-mph these things look like they is a personal injury collision just waiting to happen?

How about that ...... is a good question ...... registration-yes ....... or, registration-no?

......

www.radinn.com ...... #1 motorized electric surfboard ..... research and product development in Malmo, Sweden ...... made in China or someplace .... click on the Radinn-Make Waves video ..... a factory inspirational sales video from the Volvo of jet boards

NHskier 10-09-2021 05:52 PM

Parafunalia had an e-foil out front for display earlier in the week when I stopped in. I was surprised to see how small it actually was, both in height and length.

mswlogo 10-11-2021 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NHskier (Post 363202)
Parafunalia had an e-foil out front for display earlier in the week when I stopped in. I was surprised to see how small it actually was, both in height and length.

Ooh. That’s good to know, thanks. I bought my air chair and my slalom ski there years ago.

Winnisquamer 10-11-2021 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeredithMan (Post 363188)
...so this thread intrigued me to finally read about these e-foil boards. They are not cheap...upwards of $10-12K. And, it seems that the learning process involves quite a bit of falling, at speeds of 10-20MPH. Yikes! :eek:

Would be great to hear input from anyone who has actually used one or bought one....

We rented some in Turks and Caicos was awesome to see how much power they had, we were able to take them from shore all the way out to the shipwreck. lift foils brand, they were quick in showing us how to use them, took us maybe 10 minutes to fully learn… disclaimer we both grew up skatboarding, ocean surf, wake surf, wakeboard, waterski, etc and are comfortable on boards

Had 90 minute battery life.

Merrymeeting 10-11-2021 07:38 AM

Looks like these guys could help you try or learn in the Lakes Region.

https://www.wmur.com/article/new-ham...waves/37621495

mswlogo 10-13-2021 07:17 PM

Turns out you can book a TestRide for $149 down in Warwick RI with JetSurf
I'm gonna try, but it might be to late for this season.
Sure could have done it today though. Few boats out there skiing / surfing today.

mswlogo 08-10-2022 09:36 PM

I finally got one.

This is a great video below showing it.

Huge hit with my neighbors kids.

I’m not quite standing yet (that’s a good thing, to easy would be boring)
I need a glassy morning to get up. Maybe this weekend.

https://youtu.be/IQLDcwCk4rM

I almost bought a Lift 3 efoil. There is a guy in Meredith that will come to your lake and train you for a very reasonable price.

I talked myself out of efoils. Everyone swears by them. I had an air chair and I got bored after a couple years. It was a blast the first season. Also efoils are way more dangerous because the sharp foil can and eventually will hit you. Air chair could not hit you because it was strapped to your butt. These are not.

I like the idea of carving turns on the surfboard. I don’t plan to go out on chop, ever. I hope it will feel closer to water skiing on a glassy morning.

This board can do up to 45 mph (insane). It has 4 power levels. I’ll probably never go above level 2 (27 mph).

They have different size boards you can move your motor and battery too.

It’s already way more fun than a jet ski ever was.

Oh it turned out the Jetsurf Electric was not available for near by test drive. Only the gas ones. They were quite a bit more expensive.

ITD 08-11-2022 07:18 AM

I saw one here earlier this summer, the look pretty cool.

codeman671 08-11-2022 01:23 PM

Seadoo just announced their own version to be released next summer called the Rise.

https://www.sea-doo.com/us/en/sea-doo-rise.html

fatlazyless 08-11-2022 01:40 PM

The Plymouth Walmart has about 25 different brite green or brite red Bloo Tide 8' surfboards way in the back of their outdoor garden area.

Price $109, length 96", width 23", depth-varies 3-5" with 3 fins and a semi smooth vinyl surface.

No motor, no state registration, no insurance and you get to paddle it with a kayak paddle or your two hands or surf it on a wave. Non-motorized, paddle vessels are covered on your basic NH standard homeowner's policy.

A 27-mph electric surfboard is basically a personal injury, or even worse, a boat collision just awaiting to happen on crowded Lake Winnipesaukee.

And, I notice the woman in the above post for the new Sea-Doo Rise who looks just like Eugenie Bouchard is wearing a helmet, a full wet suit, and a pfd ..... plus in NH a whistle or air horn is also required.

Is that really Eugenie Bouchard who lives in Quebec doing a model gig for the Sea-Doo Rise?

So, what's the PRICE on the Jetsurf and Sea-Doo electric surfboards? Betcha is a lot more than $109 and knowing Walmart, their Walmart price has already, maybe, been reduced to a new lower price because these Bloo Tide 8' surf boards are NOT selling.

mswlogo 08-11-2022 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless (Post 374867)
The Plymouth Walmart has about 25 different brite green or brite red Bloo Tide 8' surfboards way in the back of their outdoor garden area.

Price $109, length 96", width 23", depth-varies 3-5" with 3 fins and a semi smooth vinyl surface.

No motor, no state registration, no insurance and you get to paddle it with a kayak paddle or your two hands or surf it on a wave. Non-motorized, paddle vessels are covered on your basic NH standard homeowner's policy.

A 27-mph electric surfboard is basically a personal injury, or even worse, a boat collision just awaiting to happen on crowded Lake Winnipesaukee.

I’m not on a crowded lake :)
I do use a helmet, wetsuit, whistle, booties, vest, registration, all recommended on the board.
You can hurt yourself water skiing, snow skiing, biking too.
Paddling by hand on a paddle board is just as vulnerable on a busy lake.
At least I can zoom out of the way if they don’t see me.
You don’t have to go 27mph. I’ll be happy just above planning speed (probably around 20mph).
It can actually go 45 mph. Which is insane.
My car can go 155mph but I’ve never been above 85mph (rarely go above 70mph).

Enjoy your paddling. Don’t forget your noodles and rubber ducky. ;)

I have a Hobie Tandem Island for when I want to paddle (or sail). Way safer than a paddle board. More visible and you can move it way faster when needed.

mswlogo 08-11-2022 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codeman671 (Post 374865)
Seadoo just announced their own version to be released next summer called the Rise.

https://www.sea-doo.com/us/en/sea-doo-rise.html

Read closer. Summer 2024.

It claims it’s both a surfboard and efoil. Not sure how that’s doable and they are vague about it. Just not rising, it’s still an efoil. Efoils crossed the line on the danger zone for me.

Bet you it’s over $20K (probably $25k if inflation continues). It’s good to see a main stream company moving towards it now.

Audi also makes one. Which is $20k and not as good as competition.

If you want an efoil Lift or Fliteboard are probably the best out there right now. Around $13-$15k depending on config.

I researched every major floating electric toy.

A big issue is support, getting parts, fast replacement, good warranty etc.
Still teething pains with all these companies.

My board is out of Sweden. I just ordered some parts and they arrived in 5 days.
Online support answering questions has been very good.
They have a good member community on Facebook too.

In 5 years these will be all over the place. Guaranteed.

8gv 08-11-2022 10:37 PM

The surface of the lake is too crowded.

What is needed are more submarines!

brk-lnt 08-12-2022 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8gv (Post 374905)
The surface of the lake is too crowded.

What is needed are more submarines!

There are plenty of submarines on the lake already! When we had a place there we kept ours moored outside of the Southdown, it was a nice setup with a micro-nuke reactor for power, so we also never needed to buy gas.

There are lots of private submarines around, you just never see them under the water. Not sure if the Submarine Club of NH still has their annual get together on the lake, but if they do you should check it out. Or invite your wife out to watch the submarine races, they are lots of fun.

mswlogo 08-13-2022 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8gv (Post 374905)
The surface of https://www.yahoo.com/video/watercra...210035242.html[https://www.yahoo.com/video/watercra...210035242.htmlURL="http:"]http:[/URL]the lake is too crowded.

What is needed are more submarines!

Here you go

https://www.yahoo.com/video/watercra...210035242.html

chachee52 08-13-2022 07:20 AM

So with the original questions and concerns being about bow numbers, Where did you put the bow numbers? Did you just curve them around the deck?
Just curious

Jgreenbean 08-13-2022 08:15 AM

I bought a Radinn board this year and have been enjoying it immensely. I just went through the process of registering the boat (yes, you absolutely have to have to have these registered). I stopped by Marine Patrol in Gilford and asked about placement of the bow numbers. A marine patrol officer told me that you need to use the standard 3 inch letters, but you can wrap the numbers over the top of the board. They don't need to be vertical.

mswlogo 08-15-2022 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jgreenbean (Post 374973)
I bought a Radinn board this year and have been enjoying it immensely. I just went through the process of registering the boat (yes, you absolutely have to have to have these registered). I stopped by Marine Patrol in Gilford and asked about placement of the bow numbers. A marine patrol officer told me that you need to use the standard 3 inch letters, but you can wrap the numbers over the top of the board. They don't need to be vertical.

Which board did you get? Mine is a freeride element.

I’m getting what I believe is cavitation and I’m told once I get up and level the board that will go away. It was to rough this weekend.

I’ve been working on the house every day I’m up and to exhausted to get up as early as I should if I want glassy water.

I need to work out a better way to get it down to the water. I have rocky steps and it has not been easy.

Might make a lift or something. Wish I could just leave it on a jet ski lift.

Jgreenbean 08-17-2022 08:08 AM

Mine is an explore. It’s big and wide and heavy. I couldn’t imagine getting it down Rocky steps. I bought a kayak trolly to help wheel mine down to our shoreline, but I doubt that would work well on steps. Definitely have to transport the board and battery separately for as long as possible. A lift is an interesting idea. Now that I have a good amount of confidence on the board, I want to try out a carve. It looks way easier to turn, and looks like more fun. And it’s smaller and lighter!
These boards are definitely not good in rough water. Cavitation will be an issue. I tend to ride later in the afternoon, closer to sunset when our area of the lake is emptier and the water is smooth. On smooth water, it’s great. Try to find a nice cove or protected part of the lake with calmer water.

fatlazyless 08-17-2022 09:19 AM

Fay's Boat Yard sailboat and Hobie store has a number, about eight, different kayak movers with two wheels with different types of wheels and what-not .... for moving a kayak type vessel. The back wall of their sail boat store has a whole wall area with all these different wheel movers on display.

Is different than what you can get at Walmart.

mswlogo 08-17-2022 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jgreenbean (Post 375183)
Mine is an explore. It’s big and wide and heavy. I couldn’t imagine getting it down Rocky steps. I bought a kayak trolly to help wheel mine down to our shoreline, but I doubt that would work well on steps. Definitely have to transport the board and battery separately for as long as possible. A lift is an interesting idea. Now that I have a good amount of confidence on the board, I want to try out a carve. It looks way easier to turn, and looks like more fun. And it’s smaller and lighter!
These boards are definitely not good in rough water. Cavitation will be an issue. I tend to ride later in the afternoon, closer to sunset when our area of the lake is emptier and the water is smooth. On smooth water, it’s great. Try to find a nice cove or protected part of the lake with calmer water.

That’s why I got the element. It’s a happy medium. I have no problem turning it. And I’m not standing yet. I also tend to go late evening and early morning. Lake is rarely calm in the middle of the day.

It’s only around 4 rock steps and I have a kayak dolly. I kind of set the board bag down the steps and lift it out of board bag from the water. Little awkward. Lot’s of options to fix that, just need to think it through.

Taking the fins off and on is a pain. Like to find solution that I can leave them on.

I have a large pump house 10’ X 10’ near the water with no pump in it. Like to build a ramp from it to the water. But it’s probably 15ft back or so, a little long.

Jgreenbean 08-17-2022 08:04 PM

I wonder if something like this would work for you.
https://shoreramp.com/products/pwc-5...hoCVzEQAvD_BwE

mswlogo 08-18-2022 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jgreenbean (Post 375223)
I wonder if something like this would work for you.
https://shoreramp.com/products/pwc-5...hoCVzEQAvD_BwE

That might be perfect. Thanks.

I figured stuff like that was around but just had not researched yet.

mswlogo 08-18-2022 10:38 PM

I can’t wait to get out on a glassy morning

https://m.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=I...3gbd&fs=e&s=cl

DaveSwimm 08-19-2022 11:48 AM

Jetsurf
 
$15k, yikes

mswlogo 08-20-2022 10:10 AM

Almost up this morning. Wasn’t glass but pretty good. Conditions are no excuse.
I was standing a few times for a few seconds.
One time the board scooted away further than I expected.

I cheated and left the fins on when putting it away this time. That will save some hassle.

My knees are a bit raw ;(

Here is a couple pics of my launch point.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...702fa1_b_d.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...52c182_b_d.jpg

fatlazyless 08-20-2022 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mswlogo (Post 375323)
Almost up this morning. Wasn’t glass but pretty good. Conditions are no excuse.
I was standing a few times for a few seconds.
One time the board scooted away further than I expected.

I cheated and left the fins on when putting it away this time. That will save some hassle.

My knees are a bit raw ;(

Here is a couple pics of my launch point.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...702fa1_b_d.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...52c182_b_d.jpg

Wow, ..... will take me many months and years, living on just tuna fish w/ mayo & white rice to be able to afford a .... www.jetsurfusa.com ...... meanwhile I have my $109 Bloo Tide 8' soft paddle surfboard from the Plymouth Walmart, in the outdoors garden area ...... :eek:. ...... so, what's the difference between the Walmart $109 and this JetSurf $15990 plus NH registration and insurance.

By the way did YOU get it registered with an orange 2022 NH boat registration sticker after paying a gazillion dollars for it because it is located on some unknown remote NH lake and you will probably get away with NO registration ...... your photos DO NOT show a registration sticker on the bow, or reg numbers? ..... hut-hut-hut ... :eek:?

mswlogo 08-20-2022 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless (Post 375324)
Wow, ..... will take me many months and years, living on just tuna fish w/ mayo & white rice to be able to afford a .... www.jetsurfusa.com ...... meanwhile I have my $109 Bloo Tide 8' soft paddle surfboard from the Plymouth Walmart, in the outdoors garden area ...... :eek:. ...... so, what's the difference between the Walmart $109 and this JetSurf $15990 plus NH registration and insurance.

By the way did YOU get it registered with an orange 2022 NH boat registration sticker after paying a gazillion dollars for it because it is located on some unknown remote NH lake and you will probably get away with NO registration ...... your photos DO NOT show a registration sticker on the bow, or reg numbers? ..... hut-hut-hut ... :eek:?

It’s registered, no numbers yet though.

fatlazyless 08-21-2022 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mswlogo (Post 375341)
It’s registered, no numbers yet though.

Yes ...... well ..... congratulations to your orange 2022-NH reg sticker ..... ;) ..... which probably costs something like $59 for the easy-to-see NH sticker? ... :D

mswlogo 08-21-2022 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless (Post 375344)
Yes ...... well ..... congratulations to your orange 2022-NH reg sticker ..... ;) ..... which probably costs something like $59 for the easy-to-see NH sticker? ... :D

It was $44 if I recall. What’s your point?

fatlazyless 08-21-2022 02:47 PM

So, why the heck would anyone want to go spend a gazillion dollars on a motor surfboard with all its inherent problems, when a very nice paddle 8' surfboard is available for $109 at the Walmart in Plymouth. Paddling beats a motor for FUN & EXERCISE every day of the week!

chachee52 08-21-2022 03:35 PM

Saw a couple foil surf boards tooling down Alton Bay this AM, I noticed them near the opening and they came down at least to Sandy Point, then my kid was too interested in the Mount docking so I lost where they went. Who ever they were, they were good, never fell once.

mswlogo 08-22-2022 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless (Post 375354)
So, why the heck would anyone want to go spend a gazillion dollars on a motor surfboard with all its inherent problems, when a very nice paddle 8' surfboard is available for $109 at the Walmart in Plymouth. Paddling beats a motor for FUN & EXERCISE every day of the week!

Keep telling yourself that.

Now go start a SUP thread and share your experiences.

And don’t let the jet thrust hit you on the way out.

fatlazyless 08-22-2022 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mswlogo (Post 375367)
Keep telling yourself that.

Now go start a SUP thread and share your experiences.

And don’t let the jet thrust hit you on the way out.


....Weirs Beach standup paddleboarding ...... www.youtube.com/watch?v=24wZYZYEQDc ...... paddling from the public swim area to Mount Washington cruise ship, Winnipesaukee Pier, and up to Akwa Marina .......Lake Winnipesaukee, Tuesday morning, July 31, 2018 ...... with a motor surf board, the motor gets the exercise and the rider is just along with their need for speed.

So's .... does your JetSurf actually have a NH-2022 orange reg sticker ...... where's the photo ..... seeing is believing ..... show us a photo!

mswlogo 08-22-2022 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless (Post 375374)
....Weirs Beach standup paddleboarding ...... www.youtube.com/watch?v=24wZYZYEQDc ...... paddling from the public swim area to Mount Washington cruise ship, Winnipesaukee Pier, and up to Akwa Marina .......Lake Winnipesaukee, Tuesday morning, July 31, 2018 ...... with a motor surf board, the motor gets the exercise and the rider is just along with their need for speed.

So's .... does your JetSurf actually have a NH-2022 orange reg sticker ...... where's the photo ..... seeing is believing ..... show us a photo!

I don’t have to show you ****. Who the F do you think you are?

Show me you paid your taxes. Seeing is believing.

You really F up this site. It’s really a shame.

I’m done with this site for good. You take fun out of everything.

Zero moderation.

I’ll be on Facebook Newfound and Radinn forums if any one is interested.

I’ll be on Terrylove.com for water system, geothermal and more.

All 3 are great places where folks help and encourage each other.

Not police their values on others.

fatlazyless 08-22-2022 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mswlogo (Post 375383)
I don’t have to show you ****. Who the F do you think you are?

Show me you paid your taxes. Seeing is believing.

You really F up this site. It’s really a shame.

I’m done with this site for good. You take fun out of everything.

Zero moderation.

I’ll be on Facebook Newfound and Radinn forums if any one is interested.

I’ll be on Terrylove.com for water system, geothermal and more.

All 3 are great places where folks help and encourage each other.

Not police their values on others.

Oh ..... come on ..... a NH-2022 orange sticker for your JetSurf probably costs $44 or so ..... way less than filling up the gas tank on a performance car .... not to mention what the JetSurf motor surf board costs ..... and the NH-orange sticker helps to pay for everything like the Marine Patrol, Fish and Game, and clean water programs .... the money has to come from somewhere ...... no such thing as a free gallon of gasoline for state agencies, either. ..... :eek2:

LikeLakes 09-01-2022 08:46 AM

Too bad this thread ended here. I was really interested in hearing about people's experience with the boards, I'm guessing one is in my future.

MSWLogo, sorry to hear you are leaving. Why not just ignore the disrespectful nuisance poster?

thinkxingu 09-01-2022 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LikeLakes (Post 375841)
Too bad this thread ended here. I was really interested in hearing about people's experience with the boards, I'm guessing one is in my future.



MSWLogo, sorry to hear you are leaving. Why not just ignore the disrespectful nuisance poster?

It is also possible to block users, so that you don't see any of their posts.

Sent from my SM-G990U1 using Tapatalk

LikeLakes 09-01-2022 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinkxingu (Post 375843)
It is also possible to block users, so that you don't see any of their posts.

Sent from my SM-G990U1 using Tapatalk

Yes, I guess I should have said block instead of ignore, that's what I meant. Seems like it would solve the problem, at least for that user.


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