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Sandbar etiquette.
When you are at a sandbar please do not force the rest of us to listen to your music. :cool:
Can't tell you how many boaters were pissed at the group hanging out at the Margate sandbar with the stereo on one of the pontoon boats cranked up all day long. Several times when they thought his battery was dead a bunch of boaters started cheering. :confused: It is one thing to play music for yourself but another to be rude and inconsiderate enough to make the rest of us have to listen to crappy music on crappy speakers. |
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Besides loud music, I like when they drop an anchor right below your swim platform, or park right near you when there is room all over, or light up cigarettes or stogies then drop them in the lake, or only bring one anchor and let your boat swing wildly right near your boat, or feed the ever increasing population of ducks, or anchor in the channel, or use foul language around the kids, or anchor inside the 150's, or bring your dogs up on the beach to empty them. Oops, ranting on....
I see it all, but attempt to just enjoy myself. |
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Ok now...
....Breath.....exhale.....breath....exhale...
know the feeling, Nh_boater. it's the reason we seldom go to the sand bars and end leaving when it starts to get crowded. |
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R2B |
Not that I know of.
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We were about 100ft away and couldn't play music on our boat if we wanted to. Don't get me wrong we are not against hearing music outside of our boat but this was obnoxiously loud, the speakers were mounted on the bimini top so there was no reason for it to be any louder then it needed to be for the people in their group to enjoy. Once again an example of what is missing on the lake, common sense and respect for others. |
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A little off topic but...
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Today, we mourn the passing of an old friend by the name of Common Sense. Common Sense lived a long life, but died from heart failure at the brink of the Millennium. No one really knows how old he was since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He selflessly devoted his life to service in schools; hospitals, homes, factories and offices, helping folks get jobs done without fanfare and foolishness. For decades, petty rules, silly laws and frivolous lawsuits held no power over Common Sense. He was credited with cultivating such valued lessons as to know when to come in from rain, the early bird gets the worm and life isn't always fair. Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you earn), reliable parenting strategies (the adults are in charge, not the kids), and it's okay to come in second. A veteran of the Industrial Revolution, the Great Depression, and the Technological Revolution, Common Sense survived cultural and educational trends including feminism, body piercing, whole language and new math. But his health declined when he became infected with the "if-it-only-helps-one-person-it's-worth-it" virus. In recent decades, his waning strength proved no match for the ravages of overbearing federal legislation. He watched in pain as good people became ruled by self-seeking lawyers and enlightened auditors. His health rapidly deteriorated when schools endlessly implemented zero tolerance policies; when reports were heard of six year old boys charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; when a teen was suspended for taking a swig of mouthwash after lunch; when a teacher was fired for reprimanding an unruly student. It declined even further when schools had to get parental consent to administer aspirin to a student but couldn't inform the parent when a female student is pregnant or wants an abortion. Finally, Common Sense lost his will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband, churches became businesses, criminals received better treatment than victims, and federal judges stuck their noses in everything from Boy Scouts to professional sports. As the end neared, Common Sense drifted in and out of logic but was kept informed of developments, regarding questionable regulations for asbestos, low-flow toilets, smart guns, the nurturing of Prohibition Laws and mandatory air bags. Finally, when told that the homeowners association restricted exterior furniture only to that which enhanced property values, he breathed his last. Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents Truth and Trust; his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son Reason. His three stepbrothers survive him: Rights, Tolerance and Whiner. Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone. Now.......back to the topic at hand about sandbars.;) |
Yep, these days Common Sence is so rare it ought to be a super power!
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But people really do respect others...Right?
There' another thread about boaters spending the night anchored out. Some support it. Can you imagine how far that music will carry over the water at 1:00 am? And who ya gonna call? Just grin-and-bear-it? The poor Lake is changing and the increase in population also brings in more of those one-in-a-hundred, that can spoil it for a very large diameter.
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644:2 Disorderly Conduct. – A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if: III. He purposely causes a breach of the peace, public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creates a risk thereof, by: (a) Making loud or unreasonable noises in a public place, or making loud or unreasonable noises in a private place which can be heard in a public place or other private places, which noises would disturb a person of average sensibilities; or III-a. When noise under subparagraph III(a) is emanating from a vehicle's sound system or any portable sound system located within a vehicle, a law enforcement officer shall be considered a person of average sensibilities for purposes of determining whether the volume of such noise constitutes a breach of the peace, public inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm, and the officer may take enforcement action to abate such noise upon detecting the noise, or upon receiving a complaint from another person. |
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"..the officer may take enforcement action to abate such noise upon detecting the noise, or upon receiving a complaint from another person. "
This is the good and bad of it. You have to make a complaint for the authorities to take action under NH 'disturbing the peace' rules. Whatever their reasoning for the public entertainment, if they were asked to turn it down and did not, police assistance could have been requested. During the day there is usually little they can do besides ask the obnoxious to turn it down though. But... Frequently people this oblivious about the negative results of their action are intoxicated. Even if the operator is sober,this could provide enough leverage to get them to adjust their behavior. |
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There was a young man that dove off the boat in less than three feet of water. Knocked out. Local rescue boat stabilized and transported to shore where he was moved to a second location for a helicopter medi-vac. Friends were 2 boats away and relayed this story. Not sure of the outcome. They stated he became concious but could not feel his lower body. Pray that it was a temporary condition......
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Last weekend, 8/19 to be exact, we were at the Margate sandbar and had the exact same situation, one pontoon boat playing music loud enough for everyone within 300 ft on either side of them to hear it clearly. I didn't think of complaining too much though since I was enjoying their choice in music but it was still loud and I felt bad for the other boaters that were closer than we were. Quote:
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Tragic
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Dan |
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A kayak and a box of exploding Roman Candles.?.:D
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That is horrible to read. I sure hope he fully recovers.
I actually see this quite often at sand bars; diving and doing flips into three feet (or less) of water. It always concerns me for this very reason. |
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Do you know the name of the injured person? Is he from the area? My prayers go out to him and his family. Dan |
That just plain sucks!!!
No matter how drunk, unruly or belligerent it is still is a real shame. The other question is why didn't those around him stop him? |
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You would think that once they know the MP has them targeted they would refrain from drawing attention to themselves since they all looked to be drinking and many appeared to be quite intoxicated. Wolfeboro Baja every time I see a Baja, Formula, Fountain etc I am reminded of how much I miss selling mine. But then I remember the boat, slip and insurance payments I don't have and it makes it a little better but not all. |
Music vs Noise
The folks who think 5 watts amp and crappy speakers is music to their ears, it is downright noise to others. Especially all the rap music with four letter adjectives. They should be banned from NH.
I can live with Jimmy Buffett or Bob Marley through a 1500 watt amp and DCGold speakers. If I am at a sandbar, I would play it low unless the folks around me ask to hear the music. I never had a complaint! I avoid the sandbars on weekends. Last Sunday, I happened to anchor at the West Alton sandbar and find it surprisingly civil! I was told by another boater, the property owners along the sandbar calls every chance they get, so it has to be civil. he also told me to be prepared to move the boat if a property owner thinks you are anchoring too close, even if you are 300' out! |
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The rule in No Rfating zones is 150'. The West Alton sandbar has red markers at 150'.
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I also can not understand why anyone wants to dive off a boat into shallow water. |
Through the years
There were a number of people that have dive and break their necks. People have to learn the hard way. :rolleye1:
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We all make mistakes especially when we were young. I know there were MANY things I did when I was young that totally seem foolish now. Luckily I survived them. How bout you?? This young man has a long road ahead of him and I only wish him and his family nothing but the best and hopefully some kind of recovery. Dan |
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I can tell you right now if he EVER tells anyone on my vessel to move I can assure you the court battles and restraininhg order will be filed. I'm "that guy" that he never wants to mess with;) As for the 150 mark, given that is applies to some rafting areas and not others and impacts gatherings on public property, there are constitutional questions as the arbitrary way no rafting areas are even allowed to be obtained. The criteria to get a no rafting permit is flawed. You can't claim one area of the lake needs 150 ft exclusion from shore from boats and not others. It smacks of elitism. Trust me when I tell you that I was veeeeeerrry close to filing a lawsuit (also helps to have a lawyer in the family who agrees that the rafting rules are ripe for a legal challenge. Instead we're planning to sell the boat and get a pool. I seriously hope that homeowner reads this as I'm tempted to park my boat close enough so he approaches my boat. It will be a day he (and his wallet) remembers. |
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A sand bar has always been a hangout area and those buying a home do so knowing this so I have no pity for homeowners having to deal with all the people who hang out there. That being said there is also no reason why boaters cannot respect the landowners and not be loud and obnoxious. |
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Sandbar stuff;
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I've got an awesome potato cannon... Never had to deal with it, not sure what I'd do. If the MP is not operating at 1AM, what's to stop people from anchoring overnight now? |
Reining species
If it can rain cats and dogs, then I guess it can rain potatoes. Frogs are another descending species that have been observed.:laugh:
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I guess I'll stick with it until I can no longer afford the fuel! :D |
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Sunday
I decided to brave the weekend massacre and entertain folks from Virginia by giving them thier first tour of the big lake. I am not surprised of the marine patrol presence. All have their blue lights on and busy writing tickets while the boneheads are taking advantage of this and cross my bow and stern at speed within 50 feet. One patrol boat is station outside of the Romney compound 24/7 and I saw another one in Alton Bay in a stationary position aiming a radar gun from the point to the gazebo. A complete waste of resources.
I swing by Braun Bay, it was crowded as usual yet I found the area surprisingly quiet, without the booming rap music. Later I drove by WAM and find it very quiet and civil. Is it because the college kids are in school? |
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If you want peace and quiet then maybe a big lake isn't the place for you. |
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Call MP
The best option is to call the Marine Patrol, they will respond, break up the rafts, do a safety inspection... Asking to turn down the music only invites a confrontation and typically does no good.
The law is in place use it. |
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Dan |
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In my younger days I had many a party at my home, yes the music got louder as the evening went on, one neighbor, constantly called the local cop, who then came over and asked us to turn the music down, we did no arguments. We didn't realize how loud it had gotten. I finally went to the neighbor my self and asked them to please just come over and ask us to quiet down, that there was no reason to keep bothering the chief. There response was that they were afraid they would get told to go ____ them selves. I explained that if they came over and asked they would have no problems, but if they came over screaming and swearing like idiots then they would probably be treated in kind. The end result, was that they would stop by and ask us to quiet down, they even ocasionally had a drink or 2 with us. |
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Based on your post, I have to question if your goal is reduce noise or to discourage other boaters from using the lake (a public body of water) via heavy handed actions by the Marine Patrol? Luckily for the most part the MP has not acted heavy handed but if they did, I think it would actually work counter too your goal. If MP starts looking for every tiny infraction it would not be long before the backlash started. That same guy you want to sweep away also paid for his boat, slip, hotels, registration, etc. |
Back lash
Go to any sand bar, East cove etc, even though there are no rafting rules there are plenty of times when more than two boats are rafted up. If you can't see that I question your fitness to be on the lake.
Strictly reduce the noise caused by music would be my desire, boat traffic doesn't bother me, so you need not parse. Nice try though. I also pay those fees, do I not have the right to peaceful enjoyment? Quote:
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Common courtesy
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Interesting to note you rely on others to curtail your own behavior. |
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I would think if you just waded on over, introduced yourself, complimented his stereo & music (ya know, small talk)..THEN..tell him about your 1 year-old niece, who is FINALLY napping up-under the bow.. Bet he turns it down pronto. Without even asking him to..;)
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And after the chat I had with the neighbor they would stop over or call, and we would quiet things down NO PROBLEM. I can see you don't understand how things should work, and quite often do here in the country, sounds more like yer used to the way flatlanders do things, get the GOV to run everyones life to make YOU happy |
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So what about the radio a property owner has on their dock that I can hear from my boat, want to nail them too? I'm hate when some guy puts the radio up too loud but I'm also willing to go ask them to turn it down. It's all in how you ask. MP has some leeway but when they cross the threshold to write a summons, they have to have articulation that is very, very hard to support in court. If they fills the courts with too many of these types of cases the judges and prosecutor won't look too kindly. As to your other post, you said, "The best option is to call the Marine Patrol, they will respond, break up the rafts, do a safety inspection..." So if your goal is "peace and quiet" then why the safety inspection? You've been called out and I'm calling a spade a spade. You want MP to harass anyone that doesn't do as you want. Welcome to reality:rolleye2: As for "rafts", sorry but they are just not that prevalent and being tied together does not equate to loud music. What you want is to limit people's ability to socialize and congregate and now you're stepping on to constitutional grounds. |
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During the day, a "loud" radio from a boat isn't going to be enforced. You may want it to be, but welcome to the real world of dealing with other people. The lake is a public place. Maybe I'll get a loud anti speed limit song and blast it and call it political speach. Where do you live? ;) |
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MP are very reasonable in how they approach this, they are aware of the constitutional boundaries. I am only asking that MP enforce the existing laws and allow my peace. I am not sure you are calling me out on anything other than disagreeing with you, but if it makes you feel smart, so be it, I am called out. |
Rafting is only prohibited in certain areas, it's perfectly legal to raft in front of the Margate.
I don't think rafting laws are a constitutional issues. Basically they restrict parking (for boats) in a public park. People have the inalienable right to congregate, boats do not. Do you really think rafting has anything to do with some poor soul breaking his neck in Braun Bay? So if someone is rafted up in front of the Margate in broad daylight with the music blasting. When the MP get there what will they do? They can ask you to disperse or turn the music down but absent a real danger, they can't arrest anyone. No crime is being commited. Being a loud jerk is not a crime. Rafting there is no crime, loud music during the day is no crime. |
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Rafting has nothing to do with broken necks, loud music, excessive partying etc. A group of friends and I regularly raft in Moultonborough Bay, sometimes 6 or 7 boats. We have never had or caused an issue. |
Rafting cause broken necks?
That's a good one! right on the line with speed cause mayhem on the lake.
Maybe we should pass a law that seat belts are required when rafting so that we don't break our necks! |
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This is NH, Live n Let Live or move south of the line to the Nanny state where that attitude is so prevalent. |
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Look at it this way. If rafting promotes "safety" and "water quality" improvement then why do they exist only in certain areas. The challenge is courts side with States. Most likely the case would go to the NH Supreme court after lower court sides with the State. Long battle to wage. I pull no punches here, trsut me when I tell you I was THIIIISSS close to going forward with it. |
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It is enforced, i know form personal experience. I have NO issues with fast boats, i advocate strongly against the speed limit and vote. If you want to blast your song have at. I will dial the MP. You are right it is public hence, should i not be allowed to peaceful enjoyment that the tax dollars I pay afford? |
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BTW what would you call having to tell someone what to do, it's babysitting. |
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Sorry for the ambiguity, i will try to be more clear in the future. |
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run fast, run safe. Raft where legal |
Ipso Facto
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Whining to the gov and expecting them to do everything for you to make you feel all safe, happy n fuzzy = Flatlander. and as far as "telling" someone what to do goes, that is also part of the Flatlander attitude, ASKING SOMEONE TO DO/NOT DO something is is the way rational adults handle things. HAVE A NICE ONE |
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Rafting is banned in certain areas because of peoples complaints. |
Although rafting on Winni is "tame" compared to Lake Havasu, LOTO, Florida, etc..
BT makes a good point about maneuvering around a flotilla of boats and anchor lines to get to an emergency. It CAN be problematic. Most of the gripes seem to be petty, and easily resolved without resorting to getting "the Law" involved. A friendly conversation with the stereo guy would probably have resolved "the Issue", and this thread probably wouldn't be here. There are certainly more important "infractions & offenses" that occur on "the Lake" than a loud stereo at a public gathering place. "we're from the government and we're here to help..." |
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http://i317.photobucket.com/albums/m...5jiOVhl_fs.jpg |
APS,
The photo that you posted is good old Jobbie Nooner on Gull Island. It’s known as the Mardi Gras of the Midwest and the title is well earned. With thousands of revelers congregating on Gull Island, Lake St. Clair every year, this wild event is a Detroit favorite. If you enjoy rafting, then take a trip to this one: http://www.muscamoot-bay.com/Jobbie-Nooner.html |
Lake Norman
Has the biggest rafting flotilla recorded in Guiness Book of World Records at one time. Lake Winni is an angel compared to the parties on that NC lake. Even the NASCAR drivers pitched in!
Lake Havasu is something else. Ever attend spring break in Copper Canyon :eek: |
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I am 100% certain that the picture you posted is not of Lake Winni. And I am also 99.999% certain that there are no areas on Winni that would have that kind of a crowd. Even Braun Bay at its most crowded does not pose a problem if there were an emergency. |
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Yes, I'd say New Hampshire is definitely ripe for big-city lawyering. BTW: Here is a Lake Norman raft-up—where you don't drink the water! Yes, the brown area is the crowded sandbar... :eek2: http://home.comcast.net/~mccoy8048/Images/166a.jpg |
Sandbar vehicle
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I wonder who has jurisdction, marine patrol or state police?
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Lake Norman vs lake Clair
This will give you an idea of the competition between the two lakes as who is the rafting king. So far, Lake Norman at 944 boats!
http://www.partyboating.com/Articles...icle.asp?id=55 |
[QUOTE=Acres per Second;191080]The Marine Patrol Auxiliary would be a good and fair enforcer: too bad they've been left out in the cold.
Crossing the state line, the state of New Hampshire once requested of drivers to be "civil", saying, How quaint! Yes, I'd say New Hampshire is definitely ripe for big-city lawyering. APS, the motions are already in place such that I will be a NH resident once again. Unlike you I'll be a full time resident too. I fully believe that the NH rafting rule, as written, is unconstitutional. A lawsuit is the only way to preserve the rights of the public to use the lake. |
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