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Voting is just one way to be involved but not the only one. For example the newly formed Meredith Island Assoc is engaging Meredith town officials over a number of issues and these folks are not all full time town residents. They are lobbying the town on the behalf of all Meredith island residents and if successful there likely will be some return on the tax dollars that are paid by the folks they are representing in the way of expenditures by the town for various things. For disclosure purposes I am not a member of this association just using it for illustrative purposes. |
Remember the Boston Tea Party was about Taxation without Representation. Non resident property taxpayers are totally disenfranchised from voting on how their local tax dollars are spent, yet they depend on some local services over which they have no real say. There is no real reason (other than state laws) why towns cannot maintain a voting list for use ONLY in Town elections and for voting at town meeting. You can bet there will be no move to change the state laws!
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Think of it this way - would we want to work somewhere where everyone started at the same pay and received the same the percent increase in pay each year? My guess is no - we want the ability to be judged on our merit and receive our pay accordingly. Shouldn't the same standard be applied to our property? If I chose to spend my money and improve the value of my property, what's wrong with my taxes being assessed on what it is worth - just like my salary being based on the quality of my work? The grey area is the valuation - I know in my case my property is worth WAY less than the assessor thinks it is - until I go to sell it when suddenly it's worth a lot more! As to the original post, if someone wants to give me the property I am more than happy to figure out how to pay the tax bill on it! |
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It should be. I’d love to know how much of the tax base is out of state resident owned property for the towns around the lake. Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
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Victims? or Perpetrators?
Out of State property owners love to lament NH's tax structure... but it is out of state property owners that drive up the property values thus increasing thier own tax burden.
The median household income for towns around the lake is approximately $60 - $65K.... The average waterfront/water access property on the lake is well over $400 - $500K. These waterfront properties are priced completely out of reach for the residents of lakeside communities. The reason for that is they are bought up by wealthier out of state people, primarily as 2nd homes. It is the out of state people that drive up the pricing of the properties... not NH residents. If you don't like paying the property taxes... sell out to a wealthier out of state person and buy a 2nd property in a state with lower property taxes, but an overall higher tax burden. Woodsy |
Taxing the Rich?
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2) I'd expect real estate prices to start sliding down. (As owners and buyers discover the non-deductibility of their property taxes >$10,000—vis-à-vis their new tax bracket). I'd welcome the counsel of a CPA. :cool: |
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Intriguing question isn't it? Same can be said for sales tax, gas tax, liquor tax, tobacco tax, and the list goes on and on far as broad based taxes that are paid. |
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Have to get away from the argument of Market value, and as it is said time and time again market value is only what someone is willing to pay for it and this is where all the disagrements, asessing, abatements comes from and sitrs the proverbial pot of rich vs poor. Takes away well im not getting permits cause they will hit me with more taxes, and blah blah blah. Let the market dictate selling price, but set the tax. But at the end of the an acre in a town is an acre in the town. There is no argument of the less desirable vs desirable. It is you want to buy or own property in this town the taxes per acre is this and the price for sqft is this, period. The town sets the rates, adjusts as needed (we know that story:rolleye2:) |
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Just one caveat in my comment: I'm just considering this from a financial point of view, do not construe the above comment as support for unjust taxation. |
AC2717...
So it is your opinion that property should be taxed at a flat rate regardless of value? Your argument that "That's how Insurance Co's do it" is silly. They are only insuring the building and its contents. They are not insuring the land those buildings are on. A property can be worth $600K because of its location, but the cost to rebuild the home on that property might only be $200K. Property values are market driven... the more desirable the property.. the more people are willing to pay for it. Do you want to live on Beacon Hill? Or do you want to live Dorchester? If you have the $$$ to purchase the property, you have $$$ to pay the taxes on it. If people don't like the taxes, then sell it, make a tidy profit (this America and we are a "for Profit" country) and go buy elsewhere with a lower property tax burden. If enough people did that, the market prices of property on the Lake should fall. The reality is, a wealthier person will scarf up the property and the cycle continues. And lets not forget... owning a 2nd home is a luxury. Any and all taxes paid on something like that amount to a Luxury Tax. If you don't like the way the town/state is spending your tax money... show up to the meetings and let your voice be heard. You cannot vote, but your opinion will certainly be heard and noted. Woodsy |
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...... give it away?
Maybe Bob can donate it to the https://pinetreebsa.org in southern MAINE (Raymond, Maine) or some such organization for use as a weekend get-a-way and go-to spot. Bob gets a tax deduction off his federal taxes, and the Boy Scouts are property tax exempt so's all they need to do is to hire a local caretaker for mowing the lawn, doing the snow, and watching that it don't run out of heating oil.
Possibly a volunteer caretaker will step forward? Run it as a summer camp with two week stays for kids from MAINE? Right now, it seems to be pretty much an unoccupied property with the service people who do maintenance the only ones who actually get any benefit out of it. "Ya you know, I just love to come over here and mow the lawn ..... so quiet, so peaceful, so beautiful, and I'm the only person here today ..... and just look at that view down the lake! .....so nice to be here .... seems a wee bit crazy to me there's never anyone here?" For 55-years, from 1937-1992, it was home to about 300-people, campers and staff, every summer, year after year after year ..... it was Camp Alton ... www.campalton.com |
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I have a friend that had a similar situation with a house he bought and lived in in Bristle Conn. Although not quite as impressive as this estate, he bought this 6000 sq ft home in one of the best neighborhoods in Bristle, which there aren't many. He paid 1.5 mil for this home back before the recession when prices were at their peak. He raised his family there and now they were gone and this home was just too big for the 2 of them.
They bought a condo in another town and put the house on the market for 1.2 mil. After a year of price drops and no sale he told me the taxes, utilities and upkeep on the house, 25K a month, were killing him and they were the biggest stumbling block of the sale. He had a couple of break in's also because the place was vacant for so long. He finally accepted an offer of 600K. He took quite a bath on the home but couldn't justify keeping it any longer. |
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i am enjoying this debate, and everyone keeping it civil, this is what the forum is all about! back to my soap box: when the state sets a sales tax, does it adjust tax rates based on desirability of an item? on a meal tax, does it adjust tax rate based on where and what type of restaurant it is? on a hotel tax, does it adjust tax rate based on where it is? You can argue that i bought a more expensive meal so I am paying more tax so I chose that meal like i chose the property. But I might be buying a bigger meal a la McDonalds vs a 16oz steak A market value flaw is that if my property is not up for sale, how does anyone know what I am willing to sell it for and what is someone willing to pay for that particular item, you do not, which is often the same counter argument of: they valued my property at 500k but I just bought it last year at 450k or i just bought it three months ago for 400k so why do they think its worth 500k now. Yes if you went to a flat real estate tax, those in less desirable areas of a town will go up and those in more desirable areas will go down, at the end of the day the the land tax would be the same and if I have a 2000sqft home and the other was a 1500sqft home, there would still be more taxes coming from the extra 500sqft at the same rate, not market value |
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Taxes...
Let me me clear, I would love to have both my properties taxed at the same rate as all the others in town, regardless of location, as this would certainly benefit me! After all, it doesn't make sense to bring all value UP to take into account waterfront vs. non waterfront property, so therefore my waterfront property will be taxed at a lower rate.
But a serious question: assuming that towns need at least a significant portion of the taxes currently being collected (even if people say there is tremendous waste, there is no way you can cut more than 25% out of the existing budget and still provide the services people ask for - and I think 25% is already too high), aren't those people with land of lower value going to pay more to balance out the lesser amount higher valued properties will be taxed at? How would it work? |
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What you're willing to sell it for has no bearing on value. I sold my house to my son at a discounted price but he is still paying taxes on it's assessed value and if he went to sell it he would get a much higher price than what he paid for it. That's why when you go to sell a house it is appraised by looking at comparable properties that have recently sold. It's not a perfect science but it's pretty close . |
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My home in Ma is assessed far below what I could sell it for but I'm not calling the town and telling them to tax me on it's real value.:D |
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There are a variety of professions where the job is to look at all the assessments and try to get a better deal for the owner, or a group of owners. Big industry does this all the time in part because you may have a unique plant and there are no comparable sales to look at (they may use an income method). If I can get you an abatement, I get a commission. For those who talk about living there but not being able to vote, that's the situation for businesses. They pay property tax but can't vote. They do negotiate with the town--we'd like this intersection redesigned, we need this sort of skilled worker, could you add that to the school curriculum? Second Homeowners may not vote (you don't have to be from out of state, just out of town) but they can form organizations to work with the Selectmen. The Gilford Island Association has done well by its members, good Glendale docks, and parking, fire boat, an officer on duty,(See that Meredith), a special "Island Dump Day", etc. |
You should have a vote where your second home is located. It is possible for you or your wife to become a resident. When we lived on Cape Cod the dealer where we bought the boat was telling everyone they should have one member be a resident in order to vote in the community. As he said you have expensive property and should have a vote.
---------------------------------------------- I am a retired workaholic and continuing aquaholic |
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If my lot was for all intents and purposes fully usable, and I could build anywhere on my lot, keeping within required setbacks, I would not have bothered with the appeal. Value does have a place in property tax, just the same as value is important in determining what our vehicles and boats cost to register. JMHO Dave |
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Why shouldn't your taxes be based on what government services you could potentially use and need to have available? No kids in the school system? Lower the tax. Part time resident? Lower that tax. Only one or two people living in your property? Lower the tax. Why is the family with 5 kids paying less property and federal tax then you? Aren't you, the single homeowner, using a lot less in government services than that large family? Is the tax structure completely backward? In an ideal situation shouldn't taxes be to support services that you need? |
$309,230 divided by 365 = $847/day
This Bahre mansions's $309,230 annual property tax divided by 365 days/year equals $847/day in property tax, so for 2018 starting with January 11 every day accrues a property tax of $847 that is above the $10,000 limit and totally not deductible from the federal income tax.
It has to be paid with real money. Considering this is a single family home that has a big long list of expenses such as electricity, insurance, fuel, maintenance, tv/internet, landscaping/snowplowing, and other stuff plus the $847/day prop tax effective January 11, that's a lot of expenses with absolutely no income generated by this residence. E-gard ..... and yikes ...... so, maybe it can be rented out as a bnb party house ..... and bring in some cash ..... to pay the expenses? You cannot eat the view. So if someone has two or three homes, the total property tax amount deductible from federal tax for all two or three homes total is $10,000. I wonder for the Town of Meredith, what assessed value produces a $10,000 property tax bill. With a rate of 15.23/thousand is it an assessment of $850,000 that creates a ten thousand dollar annual bill? |
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Please. Enough with the 10,000 property tax limit. It is irrelevant for this conversation. For someone in his income category there are several ways to legally get around part of the new tax law and I am sure his tax and legal advisors are taking care of this for him. Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PZ_...eis-tA2cy/view
I think the biggest reason the schools cost so much is they have too many administrators. Take a look at this for Governor Wentworth School District. |
Non-residents pay almost double in Park City, UT
Be happy the tax rules of Park City, UT aren't adopted here. Those claiming primary residence in Park City, or renting to a single tenant year round, get a 55% break on their assessment. Those with second homes in Park City pay the full rate. A clear case of taxation without representation, yet it is not stopping people from buying second homes there.
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NH subscribes to the principle "One person One vote" and you have to be a resident. It is not taxation without representation. Nobody forced you to buy a 2nd home.
There are some "Home Rule Charter" movements around the country, but here in NH those type of rules are controlled solely by the legislature. See my link below. If you don't like the way your city/town is being run up here.... then show up for the meetings and let your voice be heard. Write letters to the paper, emails etc. If its a REAL problem for you, change your residency and vote. https://www.nh.gov/osi/resource-libr...-rule-nhma.pdf Woodsy |
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I did not ask for these changes and in fact campaign against them as much as possible. But the reality is that the nature of my job has changed and what one person could do now requires multiple people - despite a shrinking student population. Long time primary care doctors report similar things - more time is spent doing things other than interacting with patients. I am not complaining and absolutely love what I do. However, decisions are made at the town, district, state, and federal level that have brought about unintended consequences. What's the answer? That is a topic for a different discussion and perhaps different forum. Back to the issue of property tax in NH. What one thinks of as wasteful, unnecessary spending is someone else's essential program. |
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So you think that I should pay the same property tax on both parcels? |
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Colonists had a say in their areas representatives but not at the governor or higher levels |
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