Boating and weather advice
I am very new to boating. I recently purchased a 21 foot pontoon. I try to make sure the weather is good and calm for a newbie like me before i go out. However couple of time the weather got windy suddenly and scaring me and my kids. Today the boat took water a few times. One of the waves was so violent that it bent and popped the aluminum plate in front door out. I was fast but not too fast, maybe 15 mph. The boat has 90hp engine so it doesn't go so fast anyway. We live in broads so i can't avoid the open area.
Do you guys have any advice about when we should go out for boating for weather? Todays weather shows 10mps winds abd 15 nohs gusts. Is that too much for me?:)...my be i am not driving the boat propoerly? Yes i have a boating license. |
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I assume your 21’ pontoon is a double log boat and not a Tri-toon. I definitely would not want to be crossing the broads today in that boat! Dan |
We just got back and it is very rough out there today. I wouldn't suggest it. When you take the waves don't take them head on. Also go fast enough if you can to keep your bow up. Today is not good though. Stay put if you can.
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Trim the motor up a little and you will get some bow rise. It will not be like a conventional V hull but it may help the boat to go over the waves rather than through them.
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Dan |
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Trimming up works so far as being able to make it between waves, but if rolling, and having weight in front, it'll just make the nose dive further. The goal, then, is 45° or a speed that lets you "skip" over the waves. Given your motor and double toons, the former will most likely be better. Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
You can see current wind speed here:
https://www.ventusky.com/ You can tap on wind and move the cursor around different locations. It is fed by many personal weather stations. You can also shift the timeline at the bottom to see a forecast. However remember what Yogi said about predictions. At weather underground you can see a 10 day forecast including wind. https://www.wunderground.com/forecas...a/43.61,-71.46 Keeping in mind that wind is hard to predict the exception being presidential debates. The NOAA app on my phone shows the current wind speed and direction at the Laconia airport. As for the Broads in your boat I would stick to the 5 MPH wind range while you are gaining experience. |
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First, thanks for the Ventusky link. Didn't know that one.
Next, cap'n, mates, n passengers have to keep their cool when things get rough. Knowing what people need to do if things go wrong is the captain's responsibilty before you leave the dock. Everyone must be wearing a flotation vest specially if it looks like rough stuff ahead. With children aboard you can't help them if you have to help yourself first. No way can they help you if you are not wearing a vest. Teach them what to do if things go wrong or if something happens to you, and practice the drills at the dock and on the lake. Fear lessens if people know what to do before it happens. Learn three simple knots: half-hitch, bowline, clove-hitch. Their confidence will lessen your stress. Take a boating safety class with your kids. Keep a marine VHF radio aboard. A cell phone is not the right tool for the job. My kids learned all of this very young. I insisted. Boating can be lots of fun but you and they have to know what to do when it isn't. |
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Feeling safe and in control of your boat is a critical factor to truly enjoying your time on the water. And when you get to that point where you feel safe and always in control, you will enjoy your time so much more. So you need to think about more than just how to predict the wind on any day.
Wind is only part of the problem on weekends, the lake get churned up pretty bad by other boaters on Saturdays. Also every boat rides different in rough wanter; our 20' Glastron ski boat is virtually unusable on Saturdays, our previous 23' Carlson was stern heavy and almost a flat bottom and you got pounded on a rough day, our 23' Caravelle was pretty good overall, and our 27' Formula is so much better than all my previous boats its hard to even describe the difference in spectrum from our ski boat to the Formula. I have ZERO experience with pontoon boats, but the big tri-toons seem to do a whole lot better then a smaller and older twin pontoons when I see them crossing the lake in rough water. I now try to take time off and boat during the week, it is totally different experience than any Saturday. If you are only able to boat on Saturdays, try very early or very late in the day or think about a bigger and heaver boat. Life is short and time is our most precious and challenging to get commodity, so you need to figure out how to get what you need out of your time at the lake. A couple of other quick final thoughts, as said by someone else add MPH to whatever wind speed any weather forecast says (they always seem wrong to me), and regardless of what the forecast says (i.e. forecast is for ZERO wind today) Winnipesaukee seems to create its own weather and wind mid-day that is never on the forecast. There is no such thing as a guarantee clouds and wind wont pop up at any time and you need to know that and ALWAYS be ready for it. It happens to me all the time, we finally moved up to a bigger boat in part because of this. So dont be surprised to find yourself thinking about an upgrade. Maybe try renting a bigger boat and see the difference for yourself, it usually pretty noticeable. Good Luck and ENJOY your time on the lake. |
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My biggest challange at the beginning was docking. I think i am getting much better at it. Now i need to learn how to deal with choppy waters with our life jackets on :) Sent from my LG-LS993 using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
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Also know that there are lots of small and medium size boats on the lake and they do fine. There is a funny balance between finding your personal comfort zone in boat size and determining your tolerance for rough ride and then your ability to plan your trips. It can take a while to get it all figured out, so know you are not the first person to struggle with all this, I think we all do. Your plan to start small is also sound, I think its much easier to learn on an smaller boat before moving up. (others may disagree,,,) Having a good sense of your limits and knowing that you dont know it all but want to learn tells my you will figure it all out and be fine. Most of all, dont let a rough day on the water drag you down for too long. Get back on the boat and try again and get more time at the helm and most of all ENJOY. I've been boating on Winnipesaukee since diapers, being there is almost medicinal. It just seems to cure all that ails me ;-) I hope you come to enjoy it as much as I do. |
Just keep practicing and be cautious of the wind.
Over time you will become more confident and competent. If it gets rough, yell "weeeeeeeee!" and smile as the spray washes across your deck. The kids look to the captain to decide if they should be worried. :D |
No bigger
You don't need a bigger boat, just more experience. Conditions this weekend were unusual, I'd say.
My family has lived on the broads (Welch Island) since 1950. My first power boat was a 13' MFG, 18 hp. I was 12, and I went all over the lake by myself. I learned how to manage the boat in the wind and waves and to navigate at night. Later graduated to a 15' flat bottom, 50 hp. My father taught me how to go with/against the wind, from shore or island to island to shore so I was always the shortest distance to safety or close to shore where the waves were less due to friction. You can't learn this overnight or in a class. Regardless of wind and waves, I don't think there is a way to swamp a 'toon, although you can get very wet, at least your feet. No big deal. After you've buried the bow a couple of times, you will know this and have a lot of confidence in your boat, and yourself. We don't require it of guests, but everybody in the family age 72-8 wears a PFD. The kids are required by law, but adults do it to set an example, and we aren't the strong swimmers we were 30 years ago. I find the vest type, like MP wears, to be comfortable; recommend those, especially if you go solo, say, fishing. And connect the kill switch lanyard. Being safe will not diminish the fun, and being able to handle the weather will increase the number of bating days. Have fun. |
Recently retired my 20' 70hp dual 'toon.
I've gone across the broads on a Saturday with 1 - 2 foot whitecaps, not fun, very tiring. Doable but not recommended. Have folks sit to rear, trim nose up so you are not trying to be a torpedo. Best to stay closer to the side of the lake and not out in the middle. Keep the speed up faster around what the waves are moving at. Too slow and you will nose dive into a trough. Too fast and you drive your colon into your kidneys. First-year I had my 20' I did not know this, on a Saturday afternoon in Medideth Bay not far out from the Wears I slowed down to let a big Caver go past my bow, and the trough was so bad, I blew out my port side panel and had water dripping off the entire inside of my bimini. I probably took at least 6 inches of solid water over my front seats. :eek: |
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Think the key thing here is being new to this, with time you'll figure out how best to handle your boat in the conditions that you find yourself in and that is invaluable. The broads can be tricky and it doesn't take much wind to get things a little "nautical" out there. As the season winds down more care needs to be taken as if you get into trouble help maybe slow to arrive. Any time I head out after Columbus day I pretty much expect that I'm on my own should anything bad happen.
The weather reports that are given via National Weather on VHF depending on the station you pick up will actually provide not only lake water temps but also forecast expected wave\chop size. I know this is for sure broadcast on KZZ-41 @ 162.500 MHZ from the top of Mt Washington. I have that programmed into my HAM radio and refer to it on occasion as needed. I believe most if not all marine radios also have access to these broadcasts which to me are helpful as they also let you know when severe weather is threatening. They broadcast information for both Lake Winnipesaukee and Sebago Lake. |
Boating and weather advice
Son #2 and I were launched at SS at around 9:30 yesterday. The cruise to Wolfboro was fairly tame, so we decided to jump to Winter Harbor, at that point even Winter Harbor had some chop. Cross the broads at 20 miles per hour in the Donzi deep vee was wet and painful. Settled on Paugus bay anchorage in the sand by the Margate had lunch, and begged the sun to come out from behind the clouds. Still a day on the lake is better than a day in Chelrose, Mass.!
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12mph is my magic number. We live on the broads too. It gets really hard to dock in 1+ foot swells if you're single handed on an exposed dock perpendicular to the wind.
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I'll have to keep that in mind if I ever find myself in a position to buy waterfront in retirement. I can see how it could get real tricky, and cant imagine how much a new boater would struggle with that. I'm sure there are some tricks of the trade, but I can see how it might take a bit of practice to become comfortable with it. |
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https://www.winnipesaukee.com/photop...s/DSC03952.JPG |
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Which weather station Dan?
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Lacrosse Technology
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https://www.samsclub.com/p/professio...g/prod21391576 Dan |
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I dont care for running to either end of the boat when docking, and I have never liked backing into a dock,,, If I am docking by myself I usually have a line ready on my starboard midship cleat reach out from the helm and once I can get it around a post, the boat will usually stay put more than long enough to get out and get the bow and stern lines tied off. But then I dont dock on the Broads in rough weather, so I tip my hat to you both. :cheers: Thanks for sharing your technique(s). |
Having Grown Up on Lake Winnipesaukee...
Wind speed, as broadcast, is always less than actual wind on the lake. :rolleye2:
As suggested, 12-MPH is a good threshold, especially as that speed is showing a few whitecaps. For sailing, that's a speed that's ideal! :) You can still sail in a wind at 5-MPH, when no wind appears--y'know, "when it's calm". :rolleye2: For docking in a breeze, there's a modified boat hook available that allows a single boater to drop a loop over a piling or upright. As oversized boats are ruining Winnipesaukee boating and eroding shorelines, I'm loathe to suggest a larger boat; however, 'toons are especially Winnipesaukee-friendly boats. Also, I see many of the larger 'toons managing heavy chop very well. On another lake, a neighbor had a passenger fall off their smaller pontoon. :eek: Fortunately, it occurred in a shallow canal. I recall the brand being an "Aqua-Patio" pontoon boat. |
For me, Stay with the boat
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Initially, people will tell you "neutral is your friend" drift into the dock gently. Fine, if there is no wind or current. If there is wind and current, you need every tool, so shift, throttle and wheel coordination have to all function together. Hull shape factors in too. A traditional hull can be moved nearly sideways. Not so much a boat with a deep keel and single engine. A tritoon is like three keels. Great for stability, harder to move sideways. BTW, backing into a slip (Med style docking), you're usually protected with pilings, etc, but you see many boaters hanging fenders on both sides of the boat before they start. If you want to back in, say at Meredith or Wolfeboro, the key is to back past the desired space and then dock going forward as you normally would. I've said this before: you don't back up a boat. It is much easier to think of it as driving the boat forward, stern first. In our next episode, we'll talk about How to overcome helpful crew and dock bystanders. "To Taze or not to Taze?" |
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https://www.amazon.com/Boat-Loop-Lon.../dp/B00AS0264A We love it |
Boat loop
Good for you and your wife. I've never seen one of these Boat Loops in person, so I'm glad to hear of success.
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Sounds like your doing everything right, just need more time in the seat. You’ll be fine! Dan |
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https://www.parafunalia.com/boatloop.html |
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THANKS! |
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I made my own
I made my own several years ago out of a length of aluminum tube and a loop made out of a coat hanger. Made loops on each end of the hanger and attached it to the tube with a through bolt and a wing nut.
A friend had one, and I liked the idea, so I made one for myself. Kind of a Rube Goldberg thing, but worked. Dave |
Wind direction plays as big a role as wind speed in the broads imo. I was in your situation 4 seasons ago as a brand new boater I decided to rent a place on the NW tip of rattlesnake. I fortunately had good weather during my first stay but having been to the same place multiple times a year for the last 3 seasons I’ve started to learn when is a good time to go out and when to stay put. When there’s a NW or N wind, all hell can break loose in the broads.
We ventured out to Wolfeboro Sunday morning for breakfast and left in a fairly calm West wind. When we exited Wolfeboro Bay We realized the wind had turned NW, we knew we were in for a rough ride and rough docking. While the place we stay has a protected dock the boat I purchased has high freeboard and loses the bow quickly. I had 11-12 mph sustained winds on my wind gauge on rattlesnake with gusts to 16 which isn’t too bad. |
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I saw the following in another web site today :). This was totally us last weekend. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dWC2aW1ICt...tymanbahb2.png |
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Ok, so I am convinced I need one (or maybe 2) of these, but wondering what length people are using ??? Thanks for any recommendations. |
Loop-d-loop
We regularly use ours. It makes landing at our dock on East Bear Island much easier for the First Mate. We bought ours at Parafunalia in Gilford for less than is indicated on Amazon. 🐻
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Do you know what length pole you bought?
Thanks |
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Love it...
Mine is about 6' when extended. The ad says the "standard" extends your reach 19"...Not enough. I do a lot of single-handed boating and find this very valuable.
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Thanks |
With items picked from the "metal area" at the Meredith Transfer Station plus maybe another ten dollars for items from the local hardware store, you could probably rig up a boat hook loop just like the one in the photo ......... and for the next 20 years, impress all your boat passengers by informing them how you didn't have to spend a lot of money for your boat hook/loop.
Quote: "Say ...... you know this here $125 boat hook/loop ...... well, guess what ..... it only cost me ...... like $8.17 ...... and it works just as well as the one for $125 ...... you know what I mean!" ..... :laugh: Fetch a discarded roof rake from the dump, install some hardware store items like a stainless cable loop...... and you are good to go hook a dock! |
Loop Length
In response to XCR-700, I just measured "the Boat Loop" which I brought home for the off-season. Fully extended, it is 64" long. 🐻
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Maybe if I was the only one using it I might take the chance, and I encourage others to give it a try and tell me how stupid I am for blowing a bunch of cash on a simple product, but I'm just too old and tired to deal with the consequences of trying to save a buck, it just never works for me. Suggestion genuinely appreciated, just too risk averse these days. |
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Thanks ;-) |
Happy As A Clam
The 64" length is sufficient for our situation, and is easy for the First Mate to handle. We use it at our East Bear Island dock as well as the dock at our mainland slip at FBY. 🐻
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Lasso?
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Shurhold makes an attachment for use with a boat hook to make a loop in a dock line that can then be draped over a piling.
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So the pole may be a frivolous purchase, but anything that makes boating easier on my wife, makes boating easier on me ;-) When we were running smaller boats like our Glastron CVX everything was simpler, but our Formula is a more challenging to stuff into the always crowded spaces on Winnipesaukee docks. Some days I just watch the various docking maneuvers and cringe,,, and anything that keeps us from being "that person" is a welcomed addition. End of season last year we were on the dock in Wolfeboro and the guy in front of us was backing up and lost his footing, fell down in the boat and only jumped up and slammed it in to forward maybe 1 second before crashing into us. No harm done, but we watched helplessly in horror fearing a collision. Not saying the loop will save us from similar events, but if it helps in any way and makes my wife feel like she has more control its worth it to me. |
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Not sure about that one, but I did see this one as a possible alternative https://www.amazon.com/Dockit-Boat-H...TZMAMM7QB72QNR |
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Boating and weather advice
I really don't have a comment about the boat hook device, but I do want to say that many boaters arrive at the dock unprepared to make a smooth landing. The most common error I see is that boaters don't have the appropriate lines available when approaching the dock. I have seen decent-sized boats try to make a landing using 6' bow and stern lines (or less). When I was boating I always had a bow line and a stern line long enough to reach the length of the boat, and then used other, more reasonably lengthed lines to actually tie the boat to the dock. The first order of business at the dock it to get alongside the dock, safely, then worry about typing the boat to the dock. Just my two pennies worth.
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Same here, dont even think our early glastrons had floors let alone bow seating, well not floors like we have now ;-) As for having some one on the bow during docking, no idea what you are talking about, depending on the size of the boat they have people on the bow and stern at the same time. simply google boat docking or look at any manufacturers image gallery and you can find more pictures and videos than you can possibly look at/watch. and in the case of our Formula, a section of the front seat is removable to let you right up to the gunwale and its pretty deep in that section of the boat, so anyone standing there has solid footing and a can brace themselves against a solid surface. https://www.formulaboats.com/wp-cont...19055_0015.jpg So if you have no one in the front and dont ever grab a post, you must get the boat the stern of the boat against the dock for someone in the back to tie off and then what power it into the dock to keep the nose in until you can tie it off? Not the easiest method on full docks like Wolfeboro or Meredith. Or maybe you have thrusters? We do not,,, But with this boats being almost 30' OAL with the swim platform, I can see the value in thrusters on Winnipesaukee. |
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Line Length
Our bow lines are shorter than the boat length. If a secured line happens to drop off the boat while under way, it does not become wrapped around the prop.
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On my Mariah...
On my 25 ft Mariah bowrider, I used 25 ft bow and stern lines, and generally used a 15 ft line for the mid-cleat. Also carried a couple extra of each length.
Dave |
Learning when to go and not to go will
Just take some practice. It’s not fun to Load up the boat and have a small hurricane show up. I like the shurhold ext pole. I have a paddle attachment, brushes and boat hook. Great space saver on a small boat. https://shurhold.com/products/telescoping-handles I also find it helpful to leave my lines set at the dock. I keep a set on the boat for travel. This does a few things. The dock lines are always the same length and just need some adjusting from time to time. Almost anyone in the boat can help grab a line now and hold it or just put it on a cleat. Saves time setting up lines stowing etc when docking. Particularly helpful when it’s windy and the last thing you want to worry about is if you’re lines are set. Good luck. Have fun and patience. You’ll get it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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Lines at slip
Just a word to the wise. If you leave lines attached at a slip secure them with a romex electrical staple. Came back to the slip more than one and found them gone!!
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