Realistic minimum purchase price of owned waterfront on Winnipesaukee?
 

Nothing fancy just a decent (not falling apart) place with owned ~100' waterfront on the mainland?

My guess for a minimum is $500K but the price will go up significantly with the quality of the watefront.

Water front
 

We have Ben looking all spring / summer
100 frontage 3 seasion cottage
550k and up year round home 600k up
Land only 500k
Been looking in all towns around the lake most likely moultonborough will be where we will purchase
Due to low taxes

loaded question depends on where it is, waterfront is not the same in kind.

Just to be clear, the water quality varies greatly in the lake depending on where you are - some locations are also more desirable than others so many factors play into what stuff costs and what you want or is important to you.

However to give you a rough estimate I think you're in the 750K+ range to start for any owned frontage. That would be turn key in with good clear water frontage in a decent location... and even that may be a bit low.

Can you go cheaper sure if you are in a more crowded location, small lot, have frontage that is equivialt to a frog pond, muck bottom and full of weeds or buried in a place where yes you have water in front of you but that's about it. Everything is relative, if you want the good stuff you will have to pay for it, price anomalies do happen but they are far and few between.

You should spend lots of time educating yourself on what is out there, what has sold for what, how long etc... to get a good feel for the market. Everyone, myself included have opinions. They aren't worth much as the nxt guy will probably post that I'm full of - well you know!

Not an easy question to answer....
 

....as others have already echoed, numerous factors have an impact on the price. Year-round or seasonal? Cottage or a house? Clear water with sandy bottom or murky with sticks and leaves? Etc, etc

When we made the leap from water-access to waterfront 5 years ago, we thought, "we'll find something quick". Not. Took us 13 months and looking at over 20 houses to find the one we eventually purchased.

I would recommend that you first set your price range that you can comfortably afford. Don't forget about the operating costs like taxes, maintenance, tv & cable, etc. Also come up with your list of amenities you want in the place, (e.g., nice water, dock, garage, whatever is important to you and your family). Then, find a local realtor you trust and like, (you'll be spending a lot of time with this person searching, so you need to have a rapport with him or her), and discuss your price range and list of wants/needs.

Best of luck.

Like others have said $450-600k is around the minimum for what I have seen for owning your own waterfront on main parts of Winnipesaukee. There are some canal access properties under $450k. You can also find some detached or attached condos for half of that (or even less) with moorings or docks or there are also non-waterfront homes with deeded docks.

If boating isn't a priority for now you can buy a home in an association with moorings and docks and get on their list for a dock later. We are not frequent boaters and don't make it up every weekend so we are leaning toward a condo or single family home in an association and then potentially buy waterfront later when we are spending a good chunk of our summers up at the lake.

Thanks. Ideally sandy bottom and we're okay with a fixer upper but with kids we want to swim and boat.

The monthly payments are not the issue it's the DP, we have enough for $500k but if we want more we'll have to wait another year or two to save more thus the question. We're debating island but with kids that might not be the best option right now and instead my get a nicer/larger place on a smaller lake. So many options. :confused:

A realtor , Zillow . Realtor.com would immediately answer your question and answer it correctly .

Not really, I looked a year back and I basically have to look at every place and analyze it to figure them out and so many places are tagged as waterfront but they either have access or a view or on a little stream so it's a real pain to get an accurate number. I also don't know the areas of the lake or what's considered decent either.

I think your idea to look at other lakes is a good one. You definitely pay a premium to be on Winnipesaukee. Might want to look at water access communities as well. I am helping my friend look at properties. He's got a pretty big budget and is struggling to find good options for him. Really kind of surprised me.

Also, having done this myself in your price range, have your financing in line. Competition is pretty stiff for what you are after and you will need to act fast.

I have found that Zillow and some of the other national sites just don't understand "Waterfront" when it comes to value and understanding taxes.

These two sites may help you. The first link is set to search Winnisquam waterfront: both sites have a "Map" option, shows location on the lake.

http://www.nhfinehomes.com/waterfron...am-real-estate

http://nhlakesproperty.com/large-nh-...winnipesaukee/

Other's have given you most of what I would say, but I would add the following:
> Have a good inspection done
> If the property has a Septic system make sure you have money set aside; they can get real expensive on lakefront properties.
> Look up the properties on the local town website and also county Registry of Deeds. It's not easy but with practice you can really trace a property and dig up original development plans.
http://www.nhdeeds.com/belknap/BeHome.html

This is a great site to start understanding what kinds of permits you may need.
https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/shore...Ny%2fvn3hrM%3d

3 years ago with these sites and a lot of internet time, we formally visited just one property and put a deposit down that day. I had been "sort-of" looking for 2 years, but drove by a few when we were renting the last summer, nothing caught my eye. To paraphrase and old saying "let your fingers do the clicking".

Happy Hunting :)

I disagree, the prices on any other decent lake are just as much if not more as many want to be anywhere but the big lake. Squam and Sunapee are great examples of that, very very dare I say prohibitively expensive! The other thing to is asking price of the property is one thing, taxes are another. There are some fairly well priced places on Merrymeeting for instance, very nice clean lake but the taxes in New Durham are awful so it levels out with a cheaper asking price point.

So a house on Pine River Pond, Lovell Lake, etc. costs as much as a similar one on Winnipesaukee? I agree Squam is more expensive. I think the OP's idea at exploring all of their options is a good one. If $500,000 is the budget and nothing on Winnipesaukee fits, then look around.

You could check out Winnisquam and Ossipee lake as well. Neither will be as expensive as Winnipesaukee.

Neither of those lakes have very good water quality. Now Great East lake - which is in the same general area is a nice one. So are the prices to get on it.

Not so fast
 

Depending on the age of your kids you might want to consider an association with a deeded dock before lakefront. We originally bought in an association when the kids were very young and then moved to lakefront when they were in their mid to late teens. The association was the best thing we ever could have done for the kids. They had friends galore. They would leave in the morning and we'd see them running around the neighborhood and in and around the lake night and day. They are all still very close to this day even after we moved. If you buy lakefront the opportunity for them to make close friends is not as prevalent because there is no common area for kids to get together. If they don't have friends built in they are probably either going to want to bring their home friends up every weekend or wont want to come up at all.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jpcole...posted-public/

I would agree with this. We spent summers growing up in Lake Shore Park in Gilford and the friends I made and the times we had were awesome. Some friends I made there were even in my wedding. We are in a community now on Ossipee Lake and there is so much for my daughter to do, I feel she might be bored if we were just going to our own property lakefront. Do not get me wrong, I would love to own lakefront but I also enjoy seeing her make friends etc.

In the 500k price range i think your best bet would be a smaller lake. Wentworth is beautiful and you can get a nice cabin for that. (when available) A lot depends on what you like to do. I bought on Winni because I liked the idea of going out to dinner by boat or exploring different parts of lake. In reality we do that maybe twice a summer and 99 percent of the time we are swimming off the dock or tubing in front of the house. I love the big lake and my spot on it but life would not be much different on Wentworth.

I've never lived on another lake but after having been on Winni for 22 years I could never see myself at a smaller lake. We go out to dinner 7-8 or times per year or whenever we have guests. We go to Wolfboro or the Weirs just for ice cream, down to Alton for clams at Pops, to Lake port Landing because the gas is cheap. We go up to Green's Basin at least once a year and are constantly exploring and re-exploring the entire lake by the jetski. Just yesterday I needed to pick up my SCUBA gear at Dive Winni in Wolfboro. Great excuse for a boat trip. I wouldn't change that for the world.

That's kind of funny because as much as we love Winnipesaukee, we find it somewhat limiting and like to take our boat to many other places. What you described above is almost like a typical single day on the lake for us. Our retirement plans are a house in the lakes region (but not on a lake to avoid the enormous cost) and our trailerable boat, AND a live-aboard boat (a used Tollycraft 45 tops the list) we can cruise around the ICW, the great loop and the Caribbean. Looking forward to Cuba being a cruising option.

I don't know anything about Great East Lake that Maxum refers to but here's a listing on it:

http://www.beangroup.com/homes/1511_...501/index.html

3 bedroom/2 bath, 1 acre lot, 112 feet of waterfront, about $4,300 a year in property taxes, built in 2007, for $419,900

My wife's and my initial thought was to buy land and build close to a lake or buy lakefront. Neither of us had any connection to summer/vacation/second homes, so I set up a meeting with a friend whose family has owned at Lakeshore Park for many years. When I mentioned our plans, he got up from the table, walked over, and playfully slapped me: "how long before your kids go stir crazy"?

This is our third summer in Arcadia, and we couldn't be happier. As mentioned above, some of our best friends are people we've met here (I'm typing this while sitting on the green overlooking Hanson Cove), my kids have TONS to do--playground; safe biking; exploring the woods; hanging with friends; rec. hall; community events like field day, arts and crafts, movies and kickball games, etc. etc.--in addition to all the water has to offer and adult activities like wine glass painting, comedy nights, and site crawls. All at ridiculously low cost, taxes, and maintenance.

I sometimes start to think about the future and if we'll buy lakefront at some point (when the kids are teens, like the post above), but then I see how most of the new owners grew up here and bought their own places...

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I am not familiar with the market at The Lake right now, but if it is anything like other "hot" markets, I'd build timing into the equation. If The Lake market seems to be crazy, you might want to wait.

Where we live, everything is going over asking price, multiple offers, gone in a day. It's about the 6th cycle (boom/bust) I've been through over the last 45 years.

I go out and talk to the neighbors right now and they say, "boy, things seem crazy right now with housing prices."

I never forget that's what everyone was saying the last 5 times the market was out-of-control.

After the boom goes bust, I go out and talk to the neighbors and someone always says, "remember when we were talking about how crazy it was (during the boom). It really WAS crazy."

Swings in markets for second homes/vacation homes are generally more violent. Your home goes down in value 14%, and you have to sell your home (assume 7% cost to sell) and your 20% DP is gone.

That's in the "basins" probably will not have a sandy beach. The basins are not the main lake. This will be no comparison to the main lake, except it's on water. I will assume it is not on a maintained road and could be very difficult in the winter if you wanted to use it then.

Here's my 2 cents...

1. Its relatively easy to upgrade a bathroom or kitchen. Heck with a bit of money you can pretty easily double the size of your cottage. But you can never really upgrade your waterfront or location (with the exception of maybe a perched beach). Make absolutely certain that you like your exposure, your part of the lake, your view, your water depth and your lake bottom.

2. I want to echo what everyone is saying about associations. We've had several Winni homes with owned water frontage and I couldn't imagine sharing with anyone. Then we decided to buy on Squam where we could only afford shared waterfront. Its been the best lake property we've ever had. Our kids do love having other kids around but its also the neighbor camaraderie. It helps to have extra hands when its time to put in docks, fix mooring chains, repair drainage issues, borrow a wine opener etc. I wish we had explored an association sooner!

3. Definitely explore the other lakes. After a lifetime on Winni we realized that what we enjoyed most didn't involve our big boat. It was kayaking, sailing, canoeing, longer distance swimming, SUPs etc. At least in our area of Winni it was becoming really hard for our kids to do this with all the traffic and boat related chop. As much as we miss Winni I definitely don't miss the chuckleheads in the 30 foot boat passing 80 feet from my kayak at full throttle!

4. Enjoy the search process! I've found the process of finding a property can be almost as much fun as owning the property!

My house in Moultonborough sold last year for $565K. It is on 2/3 acre, 106 ft of shore front. The house is an older, 4 season, 2 bedroom ranch; about 1000 sq.ft.. The water access is good but it was a bit of a ride to get out to places on the lake. It has well water. The septic was undersized but grandfathered and functioning. The house was in good shape but needed some work, probably about $20K - $40K. In my mind, the "price" includes any post purchase work that has to be done so the "cost" of the house was closing in on $600K.

You could probably find some cottages on the lake that could be had for a little less but those types of bargains are disappearing as people buy them and "upgrade" to something significantly larger. When someone is dropping half a million into a property they are probably not going to be happy with a small cottage. Then the property is 3/4 million plus when it is sold the next time.

Plus, some of these cottages are not really waterfront but water "access" or shared water access or the water front is poor/shallow/rocky.

Taxes are a big consideration as well. I was paying around $5K a year in Moultonborough, one of the best property tax environments in the state. Move the same property into some other areas of the lake and you are turning over $10K+ annually for a fairly small property.

Not just the house. What kind of person/family are you?
 

The questions of things like an association or considering another lake are highly personal.

I had a neighbor who moved from a condo environment. He was unhappy with the house because he enjoyed getting together with a group of people. A private home was no fun. He sold the house and went back to the condo. With kids in the mix, associations have other kids and activities for them. In a private house you may have to bring their friends up with you. Yes, we had neighbors with kids but more often than not they were not there when we were. Plus the neighboring kids were boys. My daughter got along OK but would probably been happier with girls.

As to another lake, how do you use the water? Personally, I am not a sit on the water all day type of person. I like having destinations for meals, ice cream, activities, events, shopping, etc. I could be up for a week and never use my car. Sure, we did some tubing and I had jet skis for splashing around fun but the majority of time I was heading to Wolfeboro, Meredith, Alton, or Center Harbor. Most other lakes cannot supply that kind of experience. Many have NO major towns on them.

That's me. I was VERY happy with a private home on Winnipesaukee. Knowing what kind of people you and your family are will go a long way toward being happy with a MAJOR purchase and ongoing commitment.

islands
 

Don't count out the islands. Lots of threads on that in the forum and most people who have done it (myself included) wouldn't trade it for anything. And, you can get a whole lot more property/house for a lot less money.....and with good waterfront/sand/views.

This property in Meredithwent under agreement in less than a week and closed within 2 months of listing date. :https://www.coldwellbankerhomes.com/.../pid_11962056/

For 10k more than ask it looks like....

My friend sold a place on Alton Bay last year for $600,000, 100' frontage, wall with sandy bottom, dock, 3 bedroom ranch with walk out basement, move in ready, updated kitchen, 2 full baths,great local. So they do pop up once in a while. The only reason I wouldn't buy on a smaller lake is the destinations. If that's not to Important to you, I would go with a smaller lake.

Interesting, so Alton Bay looks like it has the cheapest properties on the lake that doesn't look like they're in a little cove that's swamp. Anyone take a guess as to why that is? Alton has low taxes, is closer to the Ma but it seems to have more $600k places. Is that a busy bay, shallow?

I Concur!
 

I concur with Orion's sentiment! Island adventures are absolutely the best and Lake Winnipesaukee has so much to offer. We always rented boats on Winnisquam and thought we'd end up there. We are so happy that we bought on Rattlesnake because there is so much more to do and so many places to explore on the big lake. Our boys, now grown, totally loved and still love the island experience.

If you do not yet have a realtor, I highly reccomend Nancy DePorter. She is a Lakes Region and an island specialist. She owns an island property and knows all the ins and outs of island life too.

Best of luck to you and your family! Please do let us know where you end up!

Thanks! Yeah, I've been in touch with Nancy and she was able to answer my questions. I think we're still hung up on the boat thing with three kids. Our youngest would be under 2 so my wife is worried about trying to transport the kids across the lake when it's dark and/or windy. I don't blame her. We also like to have people over for cards/drinks but on an island they either stay over or have to leave before it gets too dark.

Having people over for drinks is never a problem on an island. You simply invite island neighbors over or accept their invite. No boating after drinks need be involved.

Island Living...
 

Island Living... My neighbor's have had three children since buying on The Broads side of Rattlesnake and it hasn't been a problem at all. Work, yes, but kids can be sometimes. :laugh:

By the way, I see plenty of boats navigating the lake after dark. Why would guests need to leave before darkness falls?! :D

Existing friends/family. :-) ;)

Look Before You Leap
 

Recommend you rent a place on an island to see if you and your family like it. It's not for everyone, but we love it and work with any all situations (weather) to enable us to enjoy island living. Oue 50th season next year. There are many varieties of island locations. Ours faces wide open spaces and rough water visits us often. 🐻

Search on Zillow, choose Sold and keyword Winnipesaukee
 

This is the best way to see what sold on the lake. Zillow will show you a map and you can see the properties and where they are on the lake. I recommend that you also include water access communities with deeded dock because you will likely will get more waterfront, better beach, better water (lower price waterfront often has bad quality water or access) and a better home.

Please, pretty please, if you are buying waterfront and you have only seen the property between October and early May, find the site on Google Earth and use the history function to look at old summer aerial photos of the site. I can't tell you how many people we hear from that bought open water frontage in November only to find out that it's emergent marsh in July.

Interesting, I guess that holds true for all water front too! Wonder how to best tell from just google maps though?

Details tell the story
 

As I look at the satellite pic of my place, I can see details such as dock posts and a boat at the dock. Knowing that dock posts are usually 8 feet apart, I can tell if it is a large or small boat, which gives an indication of draft, and water and bottom conditions. I can also see a few big boulders/ledge and tell if they are in the way of normal docking and swimming activity. The Bizer chart will give depth info as well. Ask the Realtor about the seller's boating. The history that Shore Things mentions will also show more about if dockage disappears in the winter (temporary dock) or is permanent. If the seller doesn't boat much, a temp dock may be fine. If you want a larger (than his) boat, the temp dock may not be enough for you. Maybe you'll want a permanent dock or use a mooring.

As you might with any home purchase, visiting the neighborhood and asking questions of the neighbors can be very valuable input.

Kids? My grandchildren are the third generation of children growing up on the island. Same with our next door neighbors. We/they live all over the country, but the camp is always the one permanent fixture that we all come back to, and brag to the young ones about how great it was before electricity and telephones.

Not shallow at all but it is busy, like most other spots. My wife would rather be there then any other place we stay.

Well I think it's the fear of the unknown that has you worried. It's not that bad and if you take your youngest out in the boat now, making the trip back and forth to an island is not that big a deal, in fact depending on where you were to buy sometimes it's literally less than a 5 minute ride. Obviously where you consider purchasing would be key but there are plenty of properties that are a short ride and not across big rough water.

Far as entertaining goes, my neighbor has loads of people over all the time and taking the boat out at night, before I bought my place on Bear I thought people who do that are insane, well I've become insane, do it all the time. Not a big deal once you know your way... Just saying don't psych yourself out, it's really not that big a deal, if it was nobody would do it.

Oh and I second the recommendation for Nancy and her husband Doug, they are the best, island property or not.

If friends are boaters, they will be thrilled with a new destination to go to on the lake. If they are not boaters, they will either ask when you can bring them back, or they will become boaters themselves. . :)

I live here... I am always Upthesaukee.

How about something like this?

http://www.weichert.com/59729911/

Wow, nice deal. Want to split it?

Real Estate Speak.....
 

Hi All,

Just as a cautionary tale......

This appears to be quite the nice property for short money... but notice a few things.....

Most importantly... the language specifying "your" dock just steps away. Looking at the picture of the dock.....How many Winnie size boats do you think would fit on that dock? Maybe 4?.... assuming there's deep water near shore... you are buying unit number six..... how is the dock space allocated? If it's not explicitly in writing..... run away.

Next? This is a modestly priced stand alone condo.... Taxes are $4600.... what about condo fees? Nothing noted.

Finally ... electric service is only 100amps.... barely acceptable ....

Asking price is the first consideration, but certainly not the last. Sorry for being somewhat negative... but as someone who's been through 2 lakes region RE transactions (in both cases the Realtors were less than forthcoming) I'd be extremely wary of deals that seem to be too good to be true.

Good luck!

Gusman

Piping Rock Resort
 

This unit is at Piping Rock Resort...

http://pipingrockresort.com/

Hey Gus, what do you want for that kind of money??? :) It is a nice area (Winter Harbor) and the water is not real shallow there. The places were not the best built but they are holding up after 50 years. Most of them have had some work done to them.

http://www.weichert.com/58942209/

This one says fees are $244. This one isn't on the water though. I thought you might like to see the fees listed. I think there are only three right on the water including the one that is up over the boathouse. Piping Rock is on a very steep hill. It has a really nice beach though.

Island Living
 

I would think the inconveniences/adventures of island life during the summer months should be the lesser of your concerns. The real issue to me would be that it truly is seasonal. While everyone loves it up here in the summer the winter months can be just as much fun. Between snowboarding at Gunstock, snowmobiling, snowmoboarding, skating, fishing derby, pond hockey, etc, we rarely missed a weekend when the kids were young. Yes, you can make it to the island once the lake is frozen but that is a whole new level of adventure.

Expectations
 

Hey Tis.... Totally understand what you're saying.... just passing along some personal experience..... as a buyer beware! Not trying DIS a particular property but trying to help new buyers understand the games that are sometimes played.

That AD struck a chord with me... stating that the property comes with a dock *may* be true.... but clearly, not all six units could place their boats on that one dock. And trust me.... if it's not in writing, the newcomer will be at the bottom of the totem pole.

Here's another example....I signed a purchase and sale agreement on an association house on Winnie..... advertised as a vacation home with 4 season access to the lake, directly on the snowmobile trails...with deeded dock (negotiated separately).... All of this was technically true... except the house wasn't insulated (and could not be easily be retrofitted).... and the sellers we not willing to negotiate a new price.

And FWIW, the listing agent essentially admitted misrepresenting the house as he immediately returned our deposit *and* offered to reimburse us for our home inspection.

So those looking for a bargain... just be careful..... that is all!

Happy house hunting!

Gusman

Great advice Gusman. Even realtors need to be checked on. Every time I go through a new to me transaction, I learn of a new angle to get taken by.

FYI this is where watching the market is helpful, that place has been on and off the market for the past couple of years. If it was that much of a score it would have been sold by now.

Nah winter time use is great. Sure I got no running water, but how is that really any different than camping? Having a good heat source is kind of important though. Other than trading the mode of transportation from a boat to a sled or quad not much difference to me. Sitting out front on a warm late February day enjoying the peace and quiet.... priceless!

They all look alike, Maxum.

But of course, Gus, you are right. No matter where you buy you have to be careful. Obviously when you are paying 300,000 you are not going to get as nice a place as if you spent a million or more.

Did you sign the P&S before looking at the house or did you not realize it wasn't insulated until the home inspection happened? I can't imagine you signed a P&S sight unseen did you?

I would assume the ad is technically true and it's main purpose is to get traffic to look at the house. After that, it's up to the buyer to be doing their due diligence to understand what is or isn't included, especially in an association setting.

Hey Neck dweller,

Oh no.... would never sign anything sight unseen!

Toured the house (and several others in the same association), noted the woodstove and electric baseboard heating. The real estate agent mentioned that the current owners were snowbirds, which is why the cottage was winterized. The cottage was an Aframe style, so no attic to check for insulation etc. It was the home inspector who crawled under the house to find no insulation, that the baseboard heaters were disconnected and the water pump would not function in the winter. There were also potential issues with the private septic system functioning in the winter as well.

Quite the surprise, I must say... and the $400 I spent on the inspection (later reimbursed) may have been the best $$$ I've ever spent!

I don't want to discourage any of you lake front property seekers! It was always a dream of mine... so keep the Faith.... but verify EVERYTHING!

Cheers,

Gusman

Why is a 100 amp electrical service "barely acceptable"? It's a small camp.

Going up to 200 amp. electrical shouldn't be a huge issue (financially or otherwise) unless the condo association somehow gets in the way....




.

I understand.....just labor, new panel and new wire. But why wouldn't a 100 amp service be perfectly fine for this home? More than enough power for this place.

I had to move my existing 100 amp service entrance on Rattlesnake Island to make way for a new structure. It turns out that I moved the service entrance from the existing cottage to the new structure, and made the cottage a sub-panel off the new service... just for background.

Anyway, it turns out that the power company no longer connects new 100 Amp services (this was considered new service), and I had to build a 200 amp service entrance for my island cottage !

Nice thing about New Hampshire - or at least Alton - I was able to do it myself - everything except the actual connection from the pole to the building, which obviously had to be done by the power company itself.