Wake Boat Meeting
 

https://mailchi.mp/nhlakes/advocacy-...ry-more-342838


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...... hey, pass me another bag of 'crete!
 

Instead of passing some new state law in attempt to tame the very popular wake boats from making big wakes, you all should go get yourself a boat lift for elevating your boat up above those incoming wake waves.

And, for $163.97 at Lowe's you can purchase 42-bags, a pallet, of 80-lb Quikrete high strength concrete mix packaged in a water permeable paper sack.

Simply line your low lying, erosion prone shoreline with these 80-lb bags of concrete for a solid line of shoreline protection.

Two days later, the concrete will be all solid within the paper soaking wet sack, totally set up under water, and the soggy wet paper bags are easily removed away by a steel putty knife, leaving a very natural looking gray, granite facsimile block of concrete that hugs the bottom, wherever it rests, permanently.

Trust me, it works perfect, and looks totally NATURAL fantastic. You will be like totally pleased with these new permanent gray concrete Quikrete results.

11,000 years ago, the last glacier of the ice age pushed through this here lakes region, leaving behind many, many gray granite big rocks and small boulders.

With the 80-bag of Quikrete high strength concrete mix you can replicate a do-it-yourself glacier and protect your eroding shoreline from these wake boat wakes. Be your own glacier!

It looks amazingly excellent, and the price is $163.97, a 20% discount pallet price, for 42 eighty-lb bags ........ what a deal! Plus, it will give you something to work on, all summer long, getting them positioned just right.

....... protect your shoreline ...... build a revetment using bags of Quikrete! ... :cool::rolleye2:

HB 229 is to only identify what defines a “Wake Boat”. Once it can be defined and identified it can be taxed at a higher rate, fined when laws are not followed, or eliminated altogether from NH lakes.


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I have very mixed feelings on this issue. Obviously I care about the lake and it’s ecosystem and shoreline but eliminating a certain type of boat could lead to more and more regulation. I would need to see there proposed changes but I might not be opposed to a different set of setbacks from the shoreline and possibly some limiting the use to deeper parts of the lake. But again I a very much up in the air as I do not like over regulation.

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Same. Can see a higher tax rate on these boats earmarked for environmental issues. Agree with a further setback and deeper waters. Just can’t see how it gets enforced

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Hb229
 

This is a very short bill.
"1 New Paragraph; Boating and Water Safety; Definition; Wake Boat. Amend RSA 270-D:1 by inserting after paragraph XII the following new paragraph:

XII-a. "Wake boat" means any boat that is equipped with ballast tanks, bags, compartments, containers, plumbing, or similar devices or systems that are designed to alter or enhance the characteristics of the boat's wake, and is also known as a "ballast boat."

2 Effective Date. This act shall take effect 60 days after its passage.

It is sponsored by a mix of Republicans and Democrats, some of whom were on the study commission that spent a year researching "wake boats" and looking at legislation in other states. Since NH does not tax personal property, I don't see any special tax category for a particular type of boat. That's just alarmist as far as I can tell. WinnisquamZ's comment about being fined for not following the rules also didn't mean much to me. That's what we do: break the rules, pay a fine.
I think there are plenty of other bills worthy of deep scrutiny and/or support.

Alarmist, odd choice of words. Is this not a forum for lake issue? Is this not a lake issue that few knew about? We can assume a problem has been identified if others are looking to find the reason behind it. We should be asking why we need to identify this boat and what do you plan on doing with that information. Not putting our head down and ask not to get caught


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Legislative Hearing to Define Wake Boats- Feb. 3!
 

The House Resources, Recreation & Development Committee will meet on Wednesday, February 3rd, 3pm to hear verbal and written testimony regarding HB229, a bill to define 'wake boats'.

Defining what a 'wake boat' is, is an important first step to address the impacts from these types of boats. Under this bill, a "wake boat" means any boat that is equipped with ballast tanks, bags, compartments, containers, plumbing, or similar devices or systems that are designed to alter or enhance the characteristics of the boat's wake, and is also known as a "ballast boat."

The meeting will be held virtually, however you can submit your support or opposition to the bill in writing or verbally. Written testimony should be submitted to the Committee members. You can email them individually, or all committee members.

LWA needs to hear from you!

We are in the process of gathering documentation and information regarding the issues and impacts from the operation of wake boats. The LWA is not opposed to these boats; however, due to the deep wakes that the boats create, and the operation of them in protected coves and embayed areas of the lake, our members and others report that they are witnessing significant erosion to the shoreline and churning of the lake bed.

Both of these things can have a dramatic impact on water quality—promoting an increase in phosphorus, which, in turn, increases milfoil, algae and other plant growth, and reduces water clarity and fish stocks.

Help us gather documentation needed in order to address these issues.

• Do you have photos of shoreline erosion caused by wake boats?
  
• Have you seen more algal blooms or algal growth on the shoreline?
  
• Have you experienced safety issues or do you have concerns due to the operation of these boats?

You can email us at mail@winnipesaukee.org with your concerns, pictures, etc. We believe there are actions that can be taken to support the recreational use and enjoyment of the lake for all, while also protecting its health.

Let us know if this is important to you!

I say ban-em

This sport is past my time and looks like an absolute blast.
But it’s just too much impact on others.

When I first saw one, I thought WTF, won’t be long before those monsters are banned.

It’s not just shoreline issues but other small boats on the lake that are impacted.

We have a 18 ft hobie tandem island sail boat now. Very stable but pretty shallow. When one of the these tidal waves come at us it’s a train wreck. And folks on stand up boards and canoes etc. are swamped more than us.

It even screws up the lake for water skiing.

I’m sure it will be a heated meeting.

Ah yes..... the same silly arguments from the same silly people who brought you the speed limit!

Be careful what you wish for!

Woodsy

Speed limit versus wake boats
 

I have never been swamped or endangered by boats going >45 mph, either before or after the speed limit went into effect. I have been swamped, numerous times, by wake boats. And I mean waves over the bow swamped.

I'm not saying they should or should not be banned; I'm just stating a fact.

I wish my lake had a speed limit.
Maybe I should start a petition ;)

M.V. Bear II, Sophie, Doris
 

Will all need to be banned or run at headway speed. I went to headway speed next to the Doris at the set of buoys south tip of Bear and he never slowed down, I didn't bring the nose up I was too astonished maybe and a breaker rolled over the windshield. How about putting all the wake boats out in the middle of the broads just like the jetskis in the 80's? How about headway speed for the Carver's putting up 5 footers going from Mountain View and headed past Locke's Island? Watch the Cobalt go up and down a solid 3 plus feet at the dock when the wake rolls in. Kind of like Rodney Dangerfield as captain leaving mayhem in his wake. The Mount would have needed to have been banned before it was lengthened and repowered. Change is all or none. Embrace the change just like Braun Bay, the Dive, Tiki boats and who knows what is next? Do the loon chicks riding on their mother's back inside the Glendale docks notice? In the Northeast Kingdom of Vermont loons are a nuisance bird because of the volume of fish they eat. Who chooses what stays or goes? It's all relative. Petitions, hearings, process, due process all in the name of a good relaxing time. Who is the High Harbormaster? The only sure thing is that the faces change over time and there is always a group to charge as violators and a new threat. Lots of ghosts on the lake.

Hey ....... www.rodney.com ....... you scratched my anchor!

I see this group LWA appears to have made some effort to include specific language regarding the technology used to create the wake from most "wake boats" (ballast vs something else) and even gone so far as to call them ballast boats, is that intended to exclude other potential forms of wake increasing devices or technology?

I seem to recall some company planning to incorporate a mechanical device like a dive plane that worked somewhat like a trim tab but was intended to pull the boat stern deeper into the water to create the wake but without the risk of bringing all that water into the boat and the strain of all that increased weight on the boat. Is that kind of technology not of interest/concern to the group sponsoring HB229?

Not sure I fully understand the goal of HB229. From my seat it does not just appear to ID wake boats, but to limit the use of the term wake boats as only applying to boats that use ballast technology, which seem odd to me. But I may well be missing something as I have not been following this in great detail.

Thanks for any clarity anyone can add to this matter for me.

The biggest problem with wake boats is they go round and round and round in the cove. Other boats that make big waves don't do that-they just go to their destination.

IMHO, I think that all you need to know is that there is always going to be somebody, or some group of people whose ULTIMATE goal is to ban anything that runs on gas and oil. They're too fast, loud, obnoxious, cause erosion, play music too loud, leaks gas and oil into the water, etc, etc, etc... There is NOTHING "good" about them. All negative. They just need a place to start. "Wake" boats just may be what they have been looking for... Time will tell. Unfortunately, these people usually get their way because they are very sly, cunning, devious, and probably most important, they are extremely patient, and never go away. So, just when you think "that will NEVER happen", it happens, and people end up walking away shaking their heads wondering how the Hell something like this could of happened...

Wake boats like www.malibuboats.com are very expensive, maybe $80,000-new, and a work-of-art design for creating the perfect wave while booming out the big music sound from their overhead sound system.

About the only thing missing is a powerful light show? Of course it's done on a lake in the daylight.

Wake boaters typically look for lake water location with quiet calm water and few to no other boats so they can practice and train their wake boarding skills at about 22-mph (is that correct?).

To be a good wake boarder you need a calm water, go-to spot, for practicing their sport, so's they seek out some of the quiet coves away from the busy boat traffic and circle 'round n 'round n 'round ....... practice-practice-practice ..... it takes training and practice to get good at wake boarding ...... is not too easy to get it good. ....... ;)

To cancel out their constant big sound system music, go get yourself a good noise reduction ear muffs ..... the Mpow 035 noise reduction safety ear muffs - $12.99, amazon .... and their music will not be heard. .... ;)

"Silence Your World: Ideal for shooting, hunting, sports events, concerts, festivals, studying and operating machinery to protect hearing, especially suitable for work in construction and landscaping work." ...... and living on a quiet calm Lake Winnipesaukee cove area. ..... ;)

For the on-going corona virus pandemic ....... check out the $3.95 black face mask with a very nice Malibu logo on the side of the mask in the gear store in the Malibu link, above, under 'accessories' ....... or a 14-oz Yeti coffee cup for $32.95 with the Malibu logo.

Recognizing that wake boarding and wake surfing are different, and not being a practitioner of either I am at a disadvantage, I might understand why wake boarders want calmer water to curl that perfect wake and to land of flat water when performing various stunts (not sure that the right term,,,) Similar in many ways to water skiing.

But for the wake surfers, I dont see the need to be in a quiet cove, it looks to me like they could function just as well out on the Broads (assuming reasonable water conditions)

Maybe I'm missing something?

Again, not really up on this matter and really haven't thought much about it except when in a quiet cove either anchored or cruising around slowly and then getting hit by the monster waves these boats throw. Cant say it even has happened to us often, but its memorable when it does happen, especially if you are eating lunch or just laying out on a seat or deck and you get thrown off unexpectedly :eek:

The surge from these things severally damaged my dock. I had guests who tied up to the dock in the normal way anyone would have done. I wasn't there at the time, or I would have warned them that tying up without a spring line tied to a distant tree to pull the boat away from the boat slamming into the dock when one of these bad boys went by, was not a good idea in my location.

I contacted Don at Center Harbor Docks for repair at the end of last season. Nothing yet, since they are very busy. I hope I can get it repaired in the spring in time to get it destroyed again. I have no idea what replacing the broken supports will cost me.

Functional aspects of flat water and wake boarding and wake surfing aside, I do often wonder why the owners of these boats want the concert level sound systems and why they run them when not wake boarding/wake surfing?

I cant see how adding blaring music enhances these activities. Between the sounds of the engine, the water, the wind and if you are trying to communicate with anyone in the boat, adding music seems very odd to me. We would never have wanted that when water skiing. And then why run those outward facing speakers when cursing the lake before or after wake boarding/surfing?

Is part of the fun supposed to be to get others to watch??? I suppose some of these folks want to be performers and that might make some sense out of why do this in coves and with loud music.

When I was younger we were always hoping no one was around to watch fearing a public face plant and potential embarrassment,,, So I am wondering if this is somehow opposite of that, in that the wake boarders/surfers and hoping for an audience and maybe that's part of the desire to do this in an area where people will see you?

Maybe it all just a generational thing and I'm out of touch with what fun today :D

Ha, a new angle, the wake board/surf guys are really just a way to increase business for the dock repair industry :D

I agree that these boats are a big problem for people who have camps/houses in nice quiet coves that attract these boats. I would be furious if my boat(s) sustained damage from bouncing off the dock(s), (or the bottom of the lake when the water is low), as a result of these wakes. It is definitely pretty rude when you drop anchor to relax, eat lunch, lay out, or whatever, and then you start bouncing all over the place because one of these guys just showed up and is just going round and round and round churning the place up like someone else mentioned. My fear is that if these boats get banned, where does it end?? This is definitely a big problem that will be very interesting to see how it plays out. Something has to give...

Started this thread to inform others of actions being taken by the state legislature. Do see it passing. But, what is the end game? Once identified, what can and will be done


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What do you desire to be done?

Could be worse
 

Where is Lake Winni Wake fest when you need them? Sure could use their knowledge base about now as well as their can do attitude.

It seems I write out the same comment every few months or so: wouldn't it be great if people just did the right thing?

The problem with wake boats isn't inherently with the boats, it's with how the owners use them.

I shared an example last summer about how my L'il Buddy's dinghy got swamped by a passing (multiple times) wake boat that could've, literally, gone a few hundred yards in a different direction and not caused a single issue.

As always, it's the people who need regulating—the boat design is benign.

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... is wake boarding a plan to sell $80,000 wake boats?
 

www.lakewinniwakefest.com/learn-to-surf ...... from the Lake Winni Wake Fest website ...... so, you need a wake boat, driver, spotter, wake boarder, wake board, gasoline, insurance and everything ...... a whole lot of needed people, equipment, and expenses in order to wakeboard.

With a $250 inflatable, rigid sup, size 11'6"x32"x6" that weighs about 22-lbs plus a sup paddle you can go hit the big lake, paddle along more close to the shorelines, and take the ride, surf'n a wake when the right wave comes your way, all by your lonesome self. ..... no wake boat needed! ... :cool:

..................

Can surfboards be used as paddle boards? .......... www.bestsportslounge.com/surfboard-paddleboard

"We're All In This Together"
 

Designers are working on THAT...! :eek2:

https://robbreport.com/wp-content/up...ve-1.png?w=800

Actually, as opposed to seeking attention, maybe it's just that many wakeboarders are in their own little bubble and simply don't care about their impact on others. They are enjoying themselves so nothing else matters. It strikes me that wakeboarding is a sport of extremes. Extreme wakes, extreme music, extreme repetitive circuits. As with many things extreme, the sport oversteps reasonable boundaries and makes people angry. Based on my observations, I think a lot of wakeboarders just don't give a hoot about what others think. And that ignorant behavior, as I pointed out in a prior thread on this topic, is what will lead to more regulations. It'll be a self-inflicted wound to their sport unless their industry gets involved and reigns in some of the extreme behavior.

For starters, tone down the music, keep out of the small coves and maintain your distance from the shoreline.

I was confused about that too. All it does is seem to define what a wake board is. I sent them comments basically agreeing that the definition sounded accurate but they need to be careful that it does not include any boat that has a trim tab to be defined as a wake boat.

Malibu boats had a wedge that would dig into the water like you describe about 20 years ago. It was manually set and done through a trap door in the swim platform. That was before ballast tanks.

Maybe they need to agree on what wake board is before they decide what to do about them.

Good point, I'm sure I could curl a pretty good wake in my Formula if I wanted to intentionally wreak havoc on some cove. Not sure its the same quality the wake board/surf folks are looking for, but the impact on shore, docks, other boaters would be significant.

Come to think about it, its interesting how much time and effort I put into not creating a big wake when I am in a cove, near docks or other boaters. I am actually embarrassed when I realize I have a big wake behind me.

The only time I ignore a big curl behind the boat is when crossing the Broads when its really windy and there are 2 foot + rollers and I trying to minimize the ride impact on my passengers. Even then I seriously doubt my wake makes it 20 feet past the boat, its usually consumed by the natural waves at that point.

I haven't paid too much attention to this issue, but i can now see that there are many things to consider about this matter. Clearly more than I had originally thought about,,,

Thanks

I assume that this has been altered??? As I see no lasting wake, it seems to disappear just past wake surfer.

Is it possible that they have created a hull that only make a wake envelope that collapses in on itself and leaves no lasting impact to the surrounding water?

Seems unlikely to me, but I dont know anything about this boat.

In true APS fashion.... he posts a photoshopped pic of a boat that doesn't yet exist!

https://www.ridegigawave.com


Woodsy

Hummm,,,, not much on their website.

For Planet Earth—Whatta "Sport"!
 

Your clues were that nobody was at the helm :eek: and anyway, the steering wheel is missing? :laugh:

Their engineers seem confidant of what they are promising: "Be progressive, achieve ultimate performance, and build purpose-driven products to better ourselves and our planet".

They're going to improve our planet? :confused:

We need a "massive barrel"? :rolleye1:

The previous image is from their website, and follows their sketch adequately:

The manufacturer's marketing picture of the wave in ApS's post contradicts the view that the design of the boat is "benign". These boats are designed to maximize their impact on the water surface--this is inherently more damaging and less polite than other boats

The Results Are In
 

The meeting offered the opportunity for community stakeholders to voice their opinions on the matter. Key takeaway: 100 people in support of a bill to define wake boats and 977 opposed. Your voices have been heard.

I have been wakeboarding and waterskiing in my cove for over 25 years. The use of ballast filled boats for watersports is not a novel concept. During that time, I have tried my best to be a courteous and respectful neighbor while pursuing my passion alongside my family and friends - many of whom are neighbors. It is definitively my favorite thing to do in this world.

Again, for context, the issue of wakeboats has recently gained more attention and generated the collective ire of a few, driven by the relatively recent popularity of WakeSurfing. Wakesurfing is a much easier sport to perform, which is why it is gaining popularity. In conjunction, new boat owners recognize that a single boat can function as both their deck/pontoon/cruiser/watersports boat, thus the proliferation of 23'+ wakeboats.

This is an issue of education, not regulation. You can't outlaw stupidity.

Rather than beat my head against the wall, I'll just share links to previous posts on this topic.

Context is for kings.

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...0&postcount=25

The law in many States, and also Federal law states that boaters are responsible for their own wakes, and responsible for damage or injury caused by their wakes. I don't know what NH law says, but I would think that it should be the same. Perhaps someone could comment on this?

Now if the law said boaters are responsible for the damage caused to my ears by that pathetic music these boats blast at 7:00am on weekends, then I'd be happy.

This is a great example of how tough it is for normal people to compete against business interests in politics. On our Forum, there is wide belief that wake boats cause real problems--just look back over numerous threads. As a group we are more united on this than just about any other political issue. I might guess 3/4's or more see more cons than pros to wake boarding. Further, these boats make up only a small sliver of the population on the lake.

Does anybody really believe that "the people" object to some sort of regulation on this by a margin of 10 to 1?

Echo Chamber
 

That boat, as every other boat, can be used in a responsible manner. The operator will dictate what damage, if any, the wake does.

My own jetski experience is directly related—on its own, when used responsibly, jetskis are perfectly fun machines. When operators zigzag, jump wakes, cut people off, etc. they become a nuisance.

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My guess is they were well organized.

I’m sure people that invested $100K were more inclined to show up and speak up than ones with a paddle board or a canoe.

The problem with being responsible for your wake is, it’s a cumulative problem with the shoreline.

"Virtual Voting"?
 

As to the voting, the results are suspect. Only votes by New Hampshire residents should count, and not those from New York and points west. It's our lakes that are affected.

DES is likely to frown on this "solution"—due to leaching.

A gal in Kenya devised a process to make a large brick that is made of local sand and then bonded together with recycled plastic. :coolsm: Said to be "stronger than concrete", it's possible to cure two problems with one solution. :cool:

But what I've seen, is that the lake water—often driven by two or more converging wakes—surges up and behind the boulders, picking-off larger and larger grains of rocky debris. The boulders slide down, letting more soil approach the water. That soil then becomes the latest particles to slide down, and a replacement boulder falls again. That's why water clarity suffers on weekends. :( (And clarity affects water temperature).

While it looks like boulders are holding the soil back, in reality, the lake's water level is quite high behind the "apparent" waterline.

In sailboats, there's a term called "apparent wind", and is shown by a ribbon placed to show it. But that ribbon isn't showing the actual direction of the wind! :eek:

Limiting wakeboats to the Broads isn't the answer, either. This shoreline faces Rattlesnake Island:

Man...I'd sure hate to be dealing with that shoreline.

Do wake boats create a bigger wake than "standard" vessels even if their ballasts aren't weighted down? I happened to be out and about today and saw more wake boats than normal and it seemed like they were all pushing more water, but I'm not sure if that's normal or if maybe they still had their ballasts full and were just moving from place to place. If the former, they suck even more.

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I don't know that answer for sure but I wouldn't think so.

I agree with others who think they should be banned from the lake.

Yesterday at 6:30 AM a wakeboard boat playing loud music went by repeatedly about 150 feet offshore. All of the docked boats for the two miles I could see were banging up against the docks and the waves were disturbing docks and washing over people's seawalls.

If disturbing everyone for miles was not enough the loud music they played was loaded with F bombs. Great for families with young kids to wake up to in the morning!

The answer is no. The boats are basically a modified ski boat. At lower speeds all boats make a big wake, these boats too. If they are just travelling around the lake with their ballasts full They are STUPID!!!! These boats take gas up like they are shots at a bar!!!!
The music, I agree is stupid as well. My buddy's place on a pond has about 15+ of these and they are constantly blaring music around. He has one too, but seeing we are all old and think we are young and aren't good at surfing, we can't concentrate on surfing and listening to music at that same time :laugh:

Cant you take pictures/video with time stamp and sent it to the MP? I would think 6:30 is disturbing the peace and clear photographic evidence or the damage from the wake should be enough to issue citations.

I was told by a MP officer some time ago that they cannot issue citations unless they witness bad behavior first hand. Sending them the above information will get at best a response from them and and "educational visit" to the people responsible if they can be positively identified.

I don't know if this is indeed accurate, but I should think that it would be difficult to write a summons if the evidence presented could be refuted. Even eyewitness testimony can be inaccurate and subjective. In other words those that have an axe to grind are more likely to embellish the situation or take the worst of it out of context.

So if there is an accident and you know who did it and have pictures, they wont get involved? That doesnt make any sense to me, but in our crazy mixed up world its probably just about right,,,

Seems like its worth a try, and then post the pictures and video here and it will end the debate about if these boats cause problems or not.

The denial from wake boat owners is currently unchecked, I would thing a couple of videos of them in action and the pictures of the post even damage would be very damning.

Or people can continue to suffer this problem and get no where,,,

Proposing a Commercial Park to Reduce the Noise and Bedlam...
 

When I was a youngster, it was mostly bodysurfing that occupied my time off Kailua- and Lanikai Beaches in Hawaii. (A short walk from our house on Kaikaina Street, Oahu). Similar ample waves can be made by machine.

In contrast, these over-sized wake-MAKER boats are pathetic. https://www.theinertia.com/surf/a-su...te-impressive/

Nobody behind these over-sized wake-MAKER boats can develop the skills that make surfing as enjoyable as its "cousins", in kite-sailing. wind-surfing, or just-plain-old sailing.

This past weekend, with one to three over-sized Wake-MAKERS running back and forth, I realized that there was very little turbidity--only sticks, leaves, and pine needles floating close to shore. With the lake being as high as I can ever remember it, it must have been previous weekends' wake-making that had roiled the waters, and there was nothing left of lakefront soil to loosen. :eek2:

With these artificial waves leaching people's docks of their various chemical treatments, some recompense should be made--especially in seasons of over-sized waters.