Registration? Own a place but not a "resident"
 

I want to apologize for posting this since it has been posted in other areas, However I did not see the answer to my specific question.. I just purchased a new seadoo spark pwc from a dealer in Massachusetts, I have a place in the lakes region and want to register the ski in NH. The "issue"'is that my cottage doesn't get usps and we don't get mail. My drivers license, cars and trailers are all registered in mass. I prefer to give the local town a few bucks and save on sales tax in mass.Will the NH reg have my mailing address in mass? So, in a nutshell, although I have a place in NH, I'm not a resident. What do I need for documentation and proof of residency? The sales slip has by NH address.. thanks for any info.. btw-- I have had my boating safety course for many years.

I am also about owner, own property on the lake but are mass residents, I just got my renewal form maile to my house in mass, It will our second year on the lake, don't remember having to prove anything to register my boat.

Should only need a title and copy of bill of sale. Go to your local town offices and register it in person. I did this many years ago...as long as you use it in NH, should be no issue, and they will mail the renewals to your MA home.

You do not have to use it exclusively in New Hampshire either. If you didn't use it in NH at all they would not know. My NH registrations for boats and jet skis have my Florida address and no one questions where I use it. I have one of the NH registered boats in Florida now. No issue here.

Where its kept...
 

I dont know about the tax implications but I think boat registrations are required in NH if you keep the craft here more than 30? days. Probably a large number of boats on the lake registered in NH that are owned by out of staters.

Just give the clerk your address in NH and they will do it for you. I assume they check the tax rolls for your address up there to confirm. I give both my NH address and have the renewals mailed to Mass. Never a problem. You probably paid the sales tax to the dealer, had you bought it in NH and only used it in NH then you would have saved that money.

Check here
 

https://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/...ation/boat.htm

It says you can register in NH if you live out of state, as long as the boat is used in NH 51% of the time. Who will ever know what 51% is?

I did not pay sales tax when I purchased it due to the fact I had a address in NH.

Whether you know it or not you probably have a NH address. It is a 911 address, so that emergency services can respond to it.

Sweet!!!!!

they are correct-
same situation here, I use my NH address for registration but my MA location for mailing address. Also NH registration is not a problem with a bill of sale and the title. Depending on who you go to they might ask for proof of NH address, but most just ask for the address.

its all good and perfectly legal - also citing the time spent in NH with the item - same goes for trailers - but I have found registering the trailers in MA end up being cheaper even with the excise tax

As several others have stated, there is no problem registering your boat/PWC in NH while using your MA mailing address. I did that for years, and the renewal forms were always mailed to my MA address.)

However, keep in mind that not all NH town halls process boat registrations. Many do, but some do not. Check with your local town hall. You can register your boat at many local boat dealers and marinas, and at the NH Marine Patrol headquarters in Gilford.

You can also send your renewal into Concord via mail

Usps
 

Whether new or renewal, you should be able to do it by mail if you don't want to drive to NH in the winter. If part of your motivation is to help the local town, that's great. They need that money to maintain launch ramps, public docks, etc. That tax money will go to the town whether you register at town hall or at a marina in the same town. If you register with the state (not to be confused with a marine dealer in Concord), you save the $5 agent fee and the money goes to the state. Residence and property ownership don't matter and are not a requirement.

Bottom line, somebody in NH will always be happy to cash your check. We're just friendly that way.

Welcome
 

Elbowgut: Welcome to boating in NH and to the Winnipesaukee Forum. However, browse all over this site, there's lots of fun stuff, as well as a ton of info on various forum threads.

Trailor may be a different issue
 

Boat may be easy to register, but we had problems with the trailor. Told that it could not leave the state over night if registered in NH by a non-NH resident. Not sure who was going to check, but...

I have run into the same problem with a motor vehicle. It is NH registered but my license is from another state so I get a "non-resident" registration. NH says that the vehicle cannot be out of state overnight. HUH?

So when a NH property owner has a NH registered vehicle that stays in NH 355 days a year and it is used a few nights to visit out of state relatives or for a night in Boston it is illegal?

Where are you supposed to register it? Registration use to be determined by your principal place of garaging. NH says no! So apparently NH would rather see the fees and taxes go elsewhere for a vehicle that is primarily based in NH.

I wonder what rocket scientist thought this up?

MA vs NH
 

Many years ago, greater Boston had the highest car theft rate and the highest car insurance rates in the country. Many people went to a NH border town and rented a mailbox and registered their car in a border town. Saved thousands per year per car. Sales tax too. NH and Mass go together and the motor vehicle laws were changed to prevent this. Trailers came under the MV laws, boats did not.

Insurance companies don't insure a car based on a PO Box for the address, they will want an actual street address (garaging address). That type of insurance scam won't last long. Insurance companies have a habit of ordering inspections to verify where a car is parked at night. Car is not seen after a few attempts, cancelation notices get sent out. Did it several times in my prior life as an insurance underwriter.

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you are correct and we still do it to this day, although I am an agent now not an underwriter

Lots of good info- this is to the best of my knowledge. There will be no title for the Spark (no boat in NH has a title) but a bill of sale should suffice when you go to register it- either at the town or a local marina. Bring your Certificate of Origin just in case, but you shouldn't need it. As far as your trailer goes, you should be able to go the town where you reside in NH and bring a tax bill, electric bill, any proof of residence should do. Both should be do-able in NH, but if you have to register the trailer in MA, it should be a reasonable cost even if you have to pay tax. Nevermind the 18" of snow we just got, spring is right around the corner!!!!

I am not sure if the trailer is the same as a car but for residency purposes only a driver's license will do. I believe that the trailer will be treated the same.

Property ownership and utility bills, in the eyes of the state of New Hampshire, do not make you a resident so you will get a "non-resident" registration for your vehicle. Even if you own property and leave the vehicle in NH 365 days a year you will still get a non-resident registration if you do not have a NH driver's license. You can only hold a driver's license in one state at a time.

As has been said above, a non-resident registration requires that the vehicle not be out of state overnight. When you register it the Town Clerk will require you to sign an affidavit acknowledging that the vehicle cannot be out of state overnight.

I think you are asking more about saving the sales tax that you would pay in MASS than can you register the PWC/boat in NH. I think if you are a NH resident and drivers license then maybe you can get around paying the tax in MASS but if you are a MASS resident then you may need to pay the tax in MA on the purchase. If you purchase the boat in NH you should not pay sales tax and you can easily register it in NH. Either way you can definitely register it in NH. I am really not sure so I am sure someone else can confirm.

If the boat is purchased in NH, registered in NH, and used/stays in NH, then no tax is due. I went through this many years ago when we still lived in MA and were purchasing our boat. Since it was going to stay on Merrymeeting (and has), no issues and no tax.

Interestingly, we still needed to register the trailer in MA. If you pull the boat, and something happens, it turns out that the insurance coverage comes from the pulling vehicle. Since our vehicles were registered in MA, the trailer needed to be registered there too. (in hindsight, we shouldn't have bothered. The only trailering ever done is twice a year to put it in and out at the marina, and they use their tractors to pull it)

I agree that the liability insurance for the trailer comes from the vehicle towing it but I don't think it matters where the trailer is registered. In other words, if you help a friend by towing their NH registered boat trailer to the launch ramp with your MA registered vehicle it would still be covered under your vehicle insurance.

Sure. You could rent a U-Haul trailer and it is insured under the car's liability policy. It might have plates from Utah.

correct way to look at it is this insurance wise:
while the trailer is attached to the vehicle the vehicles liability covers the trailer again while it is attached. The minute or second it is detached from the vehicle the vehicle liability stops covering the trailer. You can purchase separate physical damage coverage for the trailer for if it gets lost or stolen. Physical Damage (if you have it on your vehicles) DOES NOT cover physical damage on the trailer

My suggestion to you and my customers is add the trailer to your auto policy. It is peanuts for liability and when that trailer detaches from the car on a roadway and something happens as a result, you will be glad you got the liability on it. again the way most polices interpret it is that the second it becomes detached it is on its own. Doesn't matter that the car set it in motion. Liability and Physical damage on a trailer is minimal to say the least, and most boat or PWC policies basically will through in trailer liability and physical damage, or you can always schedule it on your auto policy

Thanks AC2717. You explained it better.

It was on the recommendation of our insurance company that we registered the trailer in MA. Now that I recall, for the reasons you suggest.

I did what ac2717 recommended above and added trailer to my policy. It was ridiculously cheap something like $12.00 per year.

Dan

I talked with my Allstate agent and they are saying the liability stays with the trailer even if it detaches as long as it was a consistent motion. Ie: The car hits a bump and the trailer detaches and hits another car. Comprehensive and collision are not covered unless added.

They seem to contradict your experience. What company are you referring to?

that is what the agent says, speak to a claims representative at the carrier directly (they are the ones that determine if coverage exists or not) I have been in the industry as an underwriter and agent for over 13 plus years specifically in transportation, I know not 20 or 30 but a long time. Policies read that "while attached," (or something around those words depending on carrier) it does not say "if it becomes detached." Insurance policies are written the same as legal documents and are interpreted as written, and not implied.

The reason it is covered while attached is because it becomes part of the vehicle at that point and extension of the vehicle if you will

While a carrier might do you a solid or to save face cover the claim, it is not covered in the policy directly, why else would they sell you the liability separately and allow you to list it on the policy by itself. I would bet my lively hood that if the claim was major and being sued for big bucks the carrier would decline the claim because it is not specifically covered in the auto policy, again unless you list it

sorry if I sounded snotty above, wasn't trying to be and did not know how else to write it

I will respectfully suggest that you, the vehicle owner, are responsible for yourself, your vehicle, and anything attached to or set into motion because of it.

As an example: If you hit a fence post and it flies through the air and hits something, you are responsible for any damage or injury.

The same logic applies to a boat and trailer. If you are towing them you are responsible for any damage that ocurs. If it becomes detached from your vehicle, you will still be responsible for any damage that occurs because you are the party responsible for the damage.

Semantics
 

Twenty-five years insurance sales, personal, not commercial, now retired. I don't recall adding liability for a trailer, just comp and collision, because the liability was automatic when the attachment occurred. Think of other examples. Your hubcap goes flying when you drive through a pothole, and hits the windshield of another car. You're liable, covered under your policy. The hubcap was not attached, and you never asked for additional coverage. Same if ice flies off your roof. It's illegal in NH to drive with snow and ice on the roof, but if it happens, you're covered for damage to the other party. The claim will not be denied even though you were in violation of the law. That is considered "contrary to the public good." Policy language seldom varies much because that's what the insurance department approves, and that's what the courts have interpreted.

while I do not disagree with you, the hubcap and the ice don't have their own axles Hub cap is part of the vehicle and the ice you are liable for as well and will cover because it came off the car. Again not disagreeing with you, but in case studies done while I was working at a carrier that we were made to sleep through, I mean go through lol, this was one of them, also during my CIC training. As you will know, it's all in the size of the claim before a carrier can start looking at loopholes or towards other exclusions to get out of paying for a claim, for the few dollars it's not worth the risk.

the other liabilities comes into mind as well, with the trailer just sitting there, and someone foolling around near it or on it, and then the occasion while it sitting there for some reason it gets loose and starts rolling down the street. - Actually had a claim on this one - liability was denied

This thread piqued my curiosity the other day, and so I Google'd the subject in a few different ways (I too worked for an insurance company) and was not really surprised by the results I found. Whether the trailer is automatically covered depends on the jurisdiction (state) and even at that, different insurance carriers within the same jurisdiction will vary as to coverage or not. Bottom line was the advice to check with your insurance agent as to how your policy covers trailers.
Get the info from the source (agent) as it relates to your own policy. You can also contact your company (do it in writing so you have something in writing back) and ask them how they apply the coverage.
As was said earlier, I think, insurance policies are not written by insurers, they are written by lawyers. Nuff said there. ;)

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Thanks, My agent did call there "coverage expert" at Allstate and they confirmed as long as the car was towing the trailer when it detached it would still be covered. She also went on to say there is no way to add liability to just a trailer with Allstate so I couldn't if I wanted to. I can, and did, ad comprehensive in case a tree falls on it but she was sure the liability was passed through the car.

Maybe it does vary between states and companies...

glad to read, always check, as stated previously and by you above it depends on the carrier and state. For Arbella, Safety and Travelers personal lines, you can add the liability in MA and NH for the trailer as well as the physical damage.

How much would it cost you to register it in MA? Inquiring minds want to know? Thanks

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Excise
 

In MA, then factor in excise tax for both the boat and trailer after you register them both

My 7'6" inflatable which I power with a 2.5hp outbord is registered in NH where I now live.

In CT it would cost me $7.50.

In NH it costs me $39.50.

But...

I bought two new cars this year and the "I paid no sales tax" euphoria is still raging!

How does this work? You buy two cars in NH, then register them in CT? Is the annual property tax the only thing you have to pay?

8gv now lives in NH.

Yup, I'm here permanently in NH.

Will the last person out of CT please turn out the lights?

In CT we had lower registration fees but 6.35% sales tax AND personal property tax (like excise tax in MA).

While the NH registration cost does vary with the price of the new car, all in, it's cheaper here.

Thanks KPW, and congratulations 8gv! It may be me turning off the light in CT cause I'm tied to a business here in Middletown, CT. After the latest proclamation for sanctuary cities and now calls for a sanctuary state I am in fear of even greater taxes being levied on the people of CT because of the loss of federal funds.:(

I have a friend that purchased a boat in Maine as a private sale and registered it in NH. The boat was financed through a bank in Maine. He never paid the sales tax and the boat always resided in NH at his parents house. Never left the state. After about 3 years somehow Maine found out and and sent him a nice letter requesting the sales tax on the boat, interest on the unpaid sales tax, and penalties on the entire amount. He fought this for months and never won. He ended up settling with the State of Maine. We still to this day wonder how they tracked him down.

Probably an audit of the seller or the financing bank.

Back to the insurance bit on trailers...

My insurance - state farm - does not cover a trailer because it was attached to one of my vehicles. In fact the language in my policy specifically mentions this.

The trailer itself has a policy attached to it which covers it no matter who is pulling it. It's cheap but required. This is separate from policies that cover what is being hauled. IF I were to yard sale my boat on the road, the boat policy picks up some and the trailer some. Between the two any damages and liability would be covered up to whatever your cap is. In this case my auto coverage would not be touched unless the tow vehicle were somehow also damaged. They also pointed out to me that I need to be aware of the coverage or lack thereof if I hook up anyone else's trailer which would not be covered by them should anything happen. I suppose thinking about it - makes sense they don't want to take on unfunded liabilities.

Far as U-Haul goes or any other rental trailer, they are not covered under your policy - that is why they offer to sell you coverage if you rent one. If you look on their web site (I did was curious) they even say rental equipment is not typically covered under a car policy.

Trailer Liability Insurance
 

I know many people on the lake are from Massachusetts where motor vehicle insurance is mandatory. You need your registration form (RMV 1) stamped by your insurance company prior to registering the trailer. However, the insurance companies do not charge you any additional fee for the trailer insurance, it is covered by the vehicle policy.

Assuming the trailer is being used for personal enjoyment (not commercial) the trailer will share the liability limits of the vehicle that is pulling it. That means if the pulling vehicle has a property damage limit of $100,000 the trailer will share that limit. It means the two combined have $100,000 to share. If the pulling vehicle has the minimum limit of $5,000 then they will share that. The same is true with Bodily Injury to Others. The pulling vehicle and trailer will share the limit. There is no additional charge for this. If you don’t own the trailer it doesn't matter. The MA policy extends liability coverage to any trailer you are pulling with a covered vehicle.

Different rules in different states!

Except, here in New Hampshire, you pay to your town a property tax on the car every year when you go to register your car at town hall. Car insurance is optional in New Hampshire, and one sometimes can see smashed up, damaged vehicles that are still usable, being driven, that look like a rolling wreck.

if you remove the motor from your 7'6" inflatable, and just use the oars for rowing it .... there's no registration required....plus sitting in the center of the boat makes it better balanced....and you get the benefits of rowing.....and long oars row a lot better than short oars.

Similar issue just bring your tax bill into town hall in whatever town you live in NH or boat dealer; your a resident if you pay taxes.

Just register it
 

Go to any boat dealer that registers boats and bring your bill of sale. You put your MA address on it. You do not need to be a resident or own property.

If it is in the water in NH for 30 days or more, it must be registered in NH.

IG