I don't think it is all the pandemic.
It may have started around that time, but I think a lot of it is the surge into our area and the refusal to bend to the greater good even a little bit.

Not sure if this is the correct thread for this message?

If you are age-65 or older and immuno-compromised then the CVS Pharmacy all across New Hampshire have available appointment time slots for a third vaccination shot, plus you can get a flu shot as well, in the same visit.

I don't know but it's my guess they do the covid shot into one arm, and do the flu shot into the other arm?

If interested go to www.cvs.com/coronavirus to schedule an appointment.

Yesterday, Sunday, at 1-pm it only took ten minutes, in and out the door, at the Plymouth CVS to get the Pjizer #3 shot into the left shoulder arm, and the flu shot into the right shoulder arm ..... have two small band aids .... using the CVS on-line appointment process.

At 5-pm I went swimming in the huge 35-meter, outdoor, 70-degree swim pool at the www.wmacwv.com and did 24-laps ...... my best number of laps so far alternating brest stroke and side stroke .... 24-laps ..... all powered up with two CVS vaccinations at the same time ..... administered by a CVS pharmacist. .... :D

And yet the overwhelming majority of people peal off their masks just as soon as they sit down at a table in a restaurant (when they are open or you can find a seat) so there is clearly no protection of others going on there and either no concern for the science, or probably closer to the truth, no belief in what the media and politicians and experts are telling us.

Same for when people exit any store with a mask requirement, they majority cant make it several steps before tearing the mask off.

Then when you take a look around you outside, I see only a tiny fraction of the population wearing masks outside,,,

Most only wear masks because its required and as a society Americans mostly follow the rules. But clearly there is either a limit to what people will do, or what they will believe.

Either way the majority of the public are not wearing masks to protect someone else, its either to protect themselves or in most cases it is simply because they are required to in certain locations.

If in this forum we have a greater proportion of benevolent and caring people, fantastic. But please excuse me if I remain a bit skeptical in the motives of people who will savagely trash anyone with a differing opinion and who dares say so. The too common hypocrisy is unconvincing.

So again, a little kindness is probably far more useful to our society than any mask wearing by the few, and when you do wear a mask, the risk from wearing untested chinese masks is probably far greater than the benefit from wearing USA made all cotton masks. If you the members of this forum disagree, ok, but show your benevolence by practicing what you preach about caring for others and not responding like omniscient jackasses and we will all get along and simply agree to disagree.

Well we will see how long that can last,,,

Some things are just facts
 

People can disagree on issues that are not fact based. For example, you could argue that the world is flat....but factually that is untrue. So, if you argued the world was flat that would make you uneducated or foolish. You could argue that masks are not protecting people but you cannot argue the science that shows they are helping. Because that is a fact and therefore not an opinion. Arguing a fact would make you....???

One who argues with someone who says the world is flat is the fool. The one says it is just wrong


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We will see who is wrong and who is right on a laundry list of alleged "truths"

One only needs look back over time and see all the truths we were told, for example; DDT is safe to be fogged in massive quantities on young children, Agent Orange is non-toxic and safe for our troops, Thalidomide that was given out like aspirin to pregnant woman for nausea and caused countless thousands of children to be born with horrible birth defects, Tylenol that is still pushed by the entire medical industry over aspirin but that destroys your liver if taken too long or in too great a quantity, morphine which is still given to children with modest injuries as the first pain killer, OxyContin and Fentanyl which caused record breaking drug addictions in average Americans, Vaping which was billed as safer than smoking! Do I really need to continue. Probably not, because if you are closed minded on the matter, and not open to any other positions than "look at the data" and the "experts say", then there is little point,,,

I simply hope you are as comfortable with your positions and selections as I am with mine.

ATB

And there you have THE textbook example of closed minded and intolerant of differing opinions by an omniscient truth seeer, and spewing hostile responses no less. Pretty much just what I expect from the folks who stand on the soapbox and proclaim only their vision is correct.

Nice job, clearly that will go a long way to convince me to follow your kind and considerate ways to see the wisdom of your visions.

Sorry, I still disagree, hope you are not too disappointed.

Was expecting someone to ask if I used a 30" swim noodle foam belt for swimming the 24-laps in the outdoor pool .......... and the answer is NO ..... no noodle needed for pool swim safety for me.

The swim noodle belt is best for rough, deep, cold, big lake water swimming as opposed to swimming a heated swim pool.

Thank-you for not asking about the noodle belt. ...... :laugh: ...... now go the heck to the nearest CVS and get yourself vaccinated ...... hut-hut-hut! ... :coolsm:

The price is free ...... no charge ..... paid by my/your Uncle Sam ...... my type of price ...... is why I keep going back to CVS ..... three times ..... May, June, and now September ...... hut-hut-hut!

Get yourself vaccinated or go to beautiful Berlin NH ..... www.nh.gov/nhdoc/facilities/berlin.html ....
state prison amoung the many many trees, up there ..... population-562, July 1, 2020 ..... and then get vaccinated in the prison.

They are providing the booster without any CDC/FDA approval?
Or is there something I am missing?

I know some of the companies that are trying to recruit me have asked whether I have the first two, and if a masking policy is a deterrent to me... but no one has brought up a third dose as of yet.

While I genuinely appreciate your efforts here, but I think we just see too many things too differently to come to agreement on this matter.

I feel like your conclusions are wrong and too many of the items you cite are what you have been told, but that they are not actually reality.

From my seat I feel like many others in that the "pandemic" should be reduced to some lower level concern. The term pandemic has been hijacked and is now a political term used for political and other purposes, but no longer applicable given the number of people who have been vaccinated and/or contracted COVID and have immunity, plus we now know so much more about how to treat infected patients that the death rate is greatly improved.

I guess my biggest disagreement is that most of what you cite on your list and reference as being contingent on vaccination and mask wearing, I believe that this is a false premise.

I expect COVID will continue to be a problem for an indefinite period like influenza. Some will continue to be sickened and die and as a whole we will be best served by the more exposure we all get to it and then build natural immunity against it. Now mind you exposure does not mean infection and infection does not mean hospitalization and hospitalization does not mean ICU and being in the ICU does not mean you will die. And in the overwhelming majority of COVID cases, people didnt even know they had it.

As a COVID survivor I was not quite so fortunate as most people, but I must confess to that of all the people I know and the hundreds of people I work with, I only know one person that was hospitalized and he said he really didnt need to be, they just did it as a precaution. And I dont know a single person that has died of COVID.

So for me I see no need to panic, I see no need for kids not to be in school and without masks, I see no need to wear masks in most places ( a few, but not many) I see no need to buy chinese masks, and I see no need to fight about all this.

If you wish to stay glued to the media and worry about it, I feel bad for you, I would say ignore it and live, but thats your choice.

But please dont impose your fears and conditions on me. Protect yourself, I'll do the same where I feel necessary, and if I believe I am at risk of exposing anyone else because I am sick or I know that I came into contact with someone else that was sick, I will quarantine. But what I wont do is live the remaining time I have in fear and take every possible precaution to reduce my exposure to near zero. I dont believe that is how our ecosystem works or our biology works best, and I dont see the impact/benefit ratio value to such actions.

Remember it was the most knowledgeable scientific minds that said the world was flat and it took a naysayer to prove they were wrong, and it was the best scientific minds that said bloodletting was the best cure for whatever medical problem you had and it took naysayers to show simple things like soap and water were better treatments, and it was the best engineering minds that said we could not make it to the moon and it took naysayers to show you that you could sit on top of a Saturn V and survive the trip.

So please consider that all the media and the politicians and the experts of today might say may not be 100% correct. But in the end make the choice you can live with and respect the other persons god given right to do the same and we will all get along fine.

ATB

You have hit on one of the fundamental reasons that people are pushing back. The hypocrisy from those that are pushing mandates, pushing vaccines and putting hard working Americans out of business and their jobs is over the top. As I've said before, not one of these "authorities" has lost a single dime as a result of all this BS they are pushing on others. How about the fact that Congress is exempt from the vaccines, just like they were not forced into the bogus Obamacare program that they forced on everyone else? Enough is enough. Here's a perfect example of said hypocrisy:

https://www.breitbart.com/entertainm...l-what-the-fk/

(I'll start the countdown for the reply that since this story is from Breitbart, it must be debunked in 3, 2, 1....:rolleye1:)

Well we now know the promises that the vaccine stops the virus 95+ percent of the time is not true, and many well need boosters unless they build natural immunity, BUT it sounds like in the vaccine you have found a fountain of youth! Maybe regular boosters could cure other things as well, only time will tell. Its not the first time unexpected benefits or other uses have been discovered.

As for the noodle, I can only guess you are somewhat more svelte individual than I am, otherwise you would be making a stronger and more specific pitch for the super noodle. I find standard noodles insufficient for my ~215LB 5'11" frame, but then I have a buoyancy problem from youth. As a kid I could swim out say 20' from shore and sink to the bottom and walk back out like the monster from the black lagoon. I was a great novelty for the other kids,,,

So for me its super noodle or nothing. I always keep several at the house.

Havent read whats on the link yet, but I am in agreement of all you said.

ATB

Some of these are very good reminders that the experts are not perfect (though FDA saved us from Thalidomide). But that does not mean that the experts and data have no value, or that various quacks and governors have a better plan than our public health experts and infectious disease scientists/physicians.

I'm sure you understand this. But it is dangerous when examples like this are used in a way that causes some people to believe that something like ivermectin is a better bet than a covid shot.

Not debunked, in this case, just a false equivalency:

"As Breitbart New [sic] reported, Emmy organizers mandated all attendees to test negative for COVID-19 and prove they have been vaccinated."

Can we do that in schools? What's the hypocrisy?

If 100% of my students and faculty were vaccinated AND tested negative, we...well, we wouldn't even have a pandemic!

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The PPACA is covered under the Grassley Amendment.

I go getta my third Pfizer vaccine shot, yesterday, at the CVS in Plymouth. Was very easy to do. Pharmacist asked for my vaccination card and he included this new third shot. The first two also were doned at CVS-Plymouth.

Piece of cake ...... easy as pie ..... courtesy your Uncle Sam ...... if you are age-65, you can start at www.cvs.com/coronavirus to schedule an appointment. I was in and out of there in ten minutes, plus I got a flu vaccination in the other arm as well.

OK. That makes more sense... 65 and older.
I am too young for the booster.

What happened to “confirmation bias”? You woke guys know all the hip terms. I’m still hung up on”groovy”…

NH is only at 53% vaccination rate, and it’s not moving much from there. Live FREE or Die.

I mean, SPP's acceptance of the article as an equal comparison is confirmation bias since it fit into his worldview. I chose, instead, to focus on how it wasn't hypocritical at all and, further, what schools would love to see.

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The State of NH dashboard states otherwise. And if they have had one dose, it is likely they will receive their second dose within a month and be added to the dashboard as fully vaccinated.

https://www.covid19.nh.gov/dashboard/vaccination

With local business experiencing more customers than they can handle, they can't afford any employee out sick for any reason even a single day... never mind several days of quarantine.
And with that much over demand, the businesses will also need to weed out customers... simply because they can't serve them all.

Folks; It is VERY important that "if" you are getting the third Pfizer Vaccine Shot that you make an appointment.

Why? This Vaccine is stored in a special low temperature freezer and it needs time to thaw to prepare for use. It's possible you may luck out and have it when you randomly walk in but it is best to schedule it ahead of time by making a specific appointment.

I think the CDC is now recommending it for people who are immune compromised or over 65, but you may want to confirm this with your primary Doctor.

Except that you've been pushing back the entire time. In early 2020, when you liked the people in the White House and people were begging for vaccines to come, you asserted covid was no worse than the flu (or you at least "thanked" posts that did). Now 600,000 are dead, and you are still asserting we should be doing less to fight the disease, and still attacking those doing everything they can to slow the spread.

So let's not say you're pushing back because of mask mandates and vaccines. Let's just acknowledge that you're pushing back because even after 600,000 dead, you still think covid is still no big deal.

Agreed for the most part, but as I said nothing about any kook politician or anything about ivermectin I cant and will not take credit OR blame for any such interpretation.

As for Thalidomide, well maybe they have saved us, but it was only after tremendous and incalculable and unspeakable damage was done.

I dont tell anyone not to get a vaccine or not wear a mask if they want to (except chinese masks), but I also dont think they are "THE" solution either, they are simply part of a process and part of a solution. How big and important a role they play, well it will take years to honestly know that.

And with regard to data, how any person may use the data can be totally different than the next person seeing the data, and I 100% guarantee you that media and politicians will us it in yet other ways and mostly NOT for the good of the general public, or maybe better stated, if their purposes produce a public benefit, its mostly by accident.

So beware data, its only a tool. In the hands of a good backyard mechanic, tools can fix something a certified mechanic would scrap, and in the hands of a true master mechanic they can fix what the backyard mechanic cannot even understand. Most things in between are hack jobs, and so it is with data. Just remember how many times they looked at the data and were ready to crucify Sullenberger & Skiles,,, They beat that data to death again and again and again, and then there was an epiphany, and low and behold they realize the 155 people onboard flight 1549 were only alive because of the amazing actions by these 2 men that were being roasted alive for their previously characterized as error in judgement.

What it all tells me is that I must review what it said by the news, the politicians, the experts, my doctors, my friends, and whomever I feel necessary and make my own decision, but NOT follow the common consensus like a sheep being lead to slaughter.

Your decisions will be based on who you trust, and I simply advocate you stop and assess the common message and challenge it for a moment. If you are still in agreement, thats the best you can do. But too often for me, the message sounds off and the numbers dont add up, and sometimes the cure can be worse than the aliment. But from personal experience I have mixed feelings having had some problems with the "cure" in the past. The pneumonia vaccine was fine, but the shingles vaccine was down right awful. Tetanus shots are usually not good and the same for flu shots. I still get the tetanus booster, but not the flu shot anymore. As for the COVID shots/boosters, not sold on them just yet as a requirement for all, as a COVID survivor with lingering problems, I can honestly say sorry the verdict is not yet final for me. Not ready to agree with the necessity to mandate them for everyone just yet and at the moment, I seem to be less and less supportive of it as a requirement vs a personal choice. And a personal choice with no discrimination against the unvaccinated tolerated, just like the flu vaccine. I personally will not sit and see attacks against those who chose whats best for themselves in this complex matter.

ATB

Breakthrough infections
 

You need to talk to people in places where they’ve ignored the prescribed procedures. I’m back in FL now. A bartender where I frequent did not get vaccinated because she didn’t want to be told what to do. That’s the response of a child. She got Covid. She would redo what she did in the past, after being knocked on her butt for 3 weeks, and still struggling with long-term after effects. All of this is not about individual freedoms. You are a part of a society and need to act as such. The Terminator was right…people in this country need to take a civics course to understand how their individual decisions affect the greater populace. I reiterate…YOU ARE A PART OF A SOCIETY.


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So lets say that I chose to never engage a customer that did not have a complete vaccine card. Would that be me making a choice? Or would that be an attack against the unvaccinated?

Interesting that you pick such a battle ground and to such an extreme, when never before did we decide how to treat people based on their vaccination status.

For things far worse than COVID, we have never had such levels of discrimination rear its ugly head.

And now that you know that the vaccine does not provide the levels of protection they initially claimed it did, why are we hanging our hat on a vaccination card.

Why because politicians set this battle up for god only knows what nefarious reasons.

Whats next, send the unvaccinated to Molokaʻi to live with the Lepers?

Sterilization like they did to downs patients?

Beating up people in the streets like they did to HIV/AIDS patients.

Is this the kind of society you really want to live in,,,

Even now there are very legitimate questions being raised about the actual impact of COVID ( https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...n_counted.html ) and the answers are not good.

So then are you really that guy?

And if so why, because NH had one official COVID death today and a 7 day average of 2 COVID deaths. Doesnt quite seem sufficient to warrant such a panic as to discriminate against someone for not getting vaccinated.

Its all just a bit too divisive for me. If this is really who some of you are, I was mistaken about who I thought was participating on this forum.

Certainly not the kind of people who claim to be wearing masks to protect others,,,

Maybe its time to start thinking about this in different terms, rather than the vaccinated vs the unvaccinated.

or maybe not,,,

Agreed, and in society you respect others choices!

So for the greater good should we be banishing gays and lesbians, because of such narrow minded perspectives.

Should we cast out the poor and old.

Should woman be stripped of all the rights they have fought so hard for, just so that for the greater good of society we can have things the way a select few of omniscient people think they should be.

I think you have this notion of a society backwards.

Choosing not to get vaccinated is not like walking around with dirty infected needles and intentionally stabbing people, its making a difficult choice about what you believe is best to protect yourself.

Would you have the national guard driving down the streets of America with cases of needles dragging people out of their homes and forcibly vaccinating them?

Where does this madness end.

This is utterly horrifying to see devolving into such a mess.

I hope we survive these narrow minded perspectives of dictating how people must live their lives. Life is already short enough and difficult enough without someone else telling you what medical choices you must make about your body to make them feel comfortable.

Did you know there is a strong correlation of the more educated you are the more likely to get vaccinated?

Same goes for wearing masks.

https://news.usc.edu/182848/educatio...sks-usc-study/

So it kind of all makes sense. They just don’t know any better.

I didn't. You did. You have determined that one person can make a choice, but the other is not allowed.
We could do it for anything. If a customer chooses to wear a hat, and I choose not to serve customers wearing hats... is that an attack against people that wear hats?

Or is it there choice and the other party needs to refrain?

You keep bringing up protected classes... but these aren't protected classes of people.

In my particular case, I don't ask anyone, because I generally only deal with customers through e*mails and phone communications. The outside salespeople deal directly with the contractors and homeowners, and I only rarely see them when they have an appointment. I might catch them now and again if the salesperson is doing something intricate and needs my assistance to complete it.

But even with direct contact, I am never in close proximity to a customer for any length of time.

So a validation of vaccination would be pointless.

Maybe everyone will go back to wearing a mask... but will the unvaccinated really like that option either?

And you keep bringing up deaths... which is really not the most prominent issue. It is the loss of limited employee hours. That is the most tenuous issue we are currently dealing with.

Well I suppose thats telling that this is what anyone is concerned about.

And when the educated need something repaired and all they can find is uneducated non-vaccinated tradesman I wonder how that will go,,,

With the current trends for everyones kids to go to college and work in offices, I see lots of opportunity for the uneducated non-vaccinated tradesman to make lots of money in the future ;-)

You might have uncovered a true golden nugget.

I had a friend who argued against masks and vaccines
 

Maybe Covid and the response to it is just part of evolution as the stupid people get removed from the earth. I had a friends who argued that Covid was a political hoax staged by the democrats. He then laughed at the idiots who wore masks. When the vaccines came out he staunchly opposed them. When he caught Covid he told people it was a joke because he felt fine...UNTIL he didn't feel fine. By then it was too late for the antibody treatment but he would not have done that anyway.

He becomes so sick he goes to the hospital and is on oxygen for 2 weeks then he placed on a ventilator for 2 weeks. Finally he is place on an ECMO machine but Covid finally won and he died. He was 43 years old and left a young boy without a Dad. He was a very, very kind and generous soul but his stupidity not Covid killed him. My heart goes out to him and his family but he made his choice, which he was free to do because his opinion was Covid was a joke. The joke was on him and he and his family paid the price.

People are free to argue and have uneducated opinions. But when those "opinions" risk infecting other people because they refuse to behave in a responsible way they become predators. I understand my post will not change a single thing because somehow people have lost the ability to critically think.

Not sure how deaths is not the most prominent matter of concern,,, Clearly it rises above all else and hopefully the people who are clear of mind will see this is the benchmark of most concern in declaring a pandemic. Other considerations are important, but fall far behind deaths.

The loss of employee hours is a certainly a concern, but could also be looked at differently, it could open up opportunities for others.

As for you constant reasons to discriminate against the unvaccinated or the hat wearers, they need not be in a protected class to be discriminated against. And eventually you will find your equilibrium, you will have your customers, and the ones you turn away will find someone that is happy to have them and it will be as it has been for thousands or years where someone in the future will wonder how the world got so screwed up because people lived in fear of some matter that no longer exists. So if discriminating against any hat wearer makes you feel safe and happier, so be it. I'm not your morality monitor, you have to live your life and do what you can live with, and if that means living in the plastic bubble that is an option.

As a society we discriminate all the time, the banning of indoor smoking is a good example.

Whatever you decide own if, and if you think you are without prejudice, think again, I think prejudice and the desire to control others and even the like for conflict is programmed into the human DNA, you can try to fight it, hopefully most do, but it is there always nagging at us. Try to rise above it and be the best you can, but you will not beat it. Best you will do is a compromise of tolerance of what you dislike.

A very tragic sad story, and the sad part is you remember your friend as "stupid" rather than respecting his decisions about how he chose to live his life. He choose free choice over fear, maybe it was a bad choice, but it was his to make and he did.

So would someone joining the military and going to war and then dies also be stupid? Maybe to some,,,

Remember your friend as "very, very kind and generous soul" not as a stupid person who had the "joke" turned on him and his family.

No one lives forever. If COVID didnt get him he may have lived to be 100 and died of old age, or he may have slipped and fallen and died yesterday in the bath tub or lost his footing climbing Mt Major and fallen to his death next year. Does how he died have to taint your memory of him so badly you really need to remember him as stupid,,,

Just something to think about.

Again so much hostility and anger and intolerance, and so so much fear.

Its really disheartening to se so many people so worked up over this.

Make your decision about what you need to do for yourself and let the other person do the same and then own it and live.

Life cannot stop over all this, and why should it? NH official COVID deaths yesterday 1 and a 7 day average of 2 COVID deaths.

So people who choose not to get the vaccine are more likely to be uneducated, i.e. hicks, rubes, rednecks, s***kickers, overalls-wearing dolts? Such an elitist attitude. Remember that a lot of people from Massachusetts think the whole of the NH populace are just such people. Obviously both blanket conclusions are wrong.

Some people are educated beyond their intelligence. Lincoln, Truman, Gates, and Zuckerberg didn’t graduate college. We need the high school graduates to give jobs to the college graduates. [emoji3]


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Flawed argument. Your sexuality, your age, your gender are not choices, but inherent to your being. Your thought process is flawed. Perhaps you should take a logic class and a civics class.


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Those with college degrees have a higher rate of vaccination than those that do not. I'm not passing judgment nor calling anyone names. I am from MA - but please don't make assumptions about me based on where I reside. Just like New Hampshire (and Maine) there are many different parts of the state. We don't all think alike.

Or maybe I should not engage in conversations with closed minded, intolerant, authoritarian, and totalitarian minded people.

Well its one option ;-)

I suppose it comes down to perspective and values and rights.

Some will always value freedom of choice over safety and other concerns. And most of them will live with their mistakes to be sure they can continue being able to make independent decisions about matters they consider important.

Others will always seek the warm blanket of conformity. (Well usually right up to the point when it doesn't go their way,,,)

Then there are some people who will always just want it their way, and too bad for the other guy. And they will seek to impose their standards on others regardless if they practice such standards themselves,,,

Its a diverse world to say the least.

Its a shame some have such little respect for the other persons desire to make decisions about their health for themselves.

Its a shame so many live in such fear; NH official COVID deaths Sept 20 2021 = 1, and a 7 day average of 2.

I have no problem with people making their own life choices when it doesn’t affect me. That’s not the case with this virus. Not sure why you think your freedom to choose supersedes my freedom to live virus free. Sounds pretty totalitarian to me.

You frequently insinuate that people who are concerned about the virus are living in fear. There is rational fear and irrational fear. Being concerned about a global pandemic is rational. Fearing that the National Guard is going to be deployed to drag people from their homes to be vaccinated is irrational.


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