Fee for Kayaks
 

Picked this up on the WMUR website this morning. Must be a lot of money to be made from a "conservation decal"?
Wonder how that would affect the transient vacationer at the lake. I always bring both my kayaks with me.

http://www.wmur.com/escape-outside/c...k/-/index.html

Stop the spending insanity!
 

Every branch/agency of government is spending more than they take in. Do they ever consider paring down services to meet their budget? NO! Continued expansion and intrusion of government at all levels has to stop. If they truly can't do their job for $30,000,000 a year then they are likely doing more than they should. We The People are taxed enough already. I have a budget and I live within it. Government should also. .....if the Feds can ever again come up with a budget at all!!:fire::fire::fire::fire::fire:

Everything takes money
 

There is also a push to get a few bucks added to the milfoil fee for in-state boat registration. Over a million per year is spent on milfoil control throughout the state, yet the effort is often funded by local cove residents and is inefficient. The state does a pretty good job in coordinating efforts and helping with the permitting process. Giving DES more money to expand its program seems like the right thing to do, even though every rise in boating fees faces a lot of resistance. We all want clear water, but those putting in the efforts to keep it that way need funding.

I love (NOT!) that they are pushing this as a way to keep Fish & Game going. If they hadn't raided the F&G funding sources for other things over the past decade, there would be no need.

How long before this additional fee is diverted from F&G and used to fund some other unneeded program? Adding more fees is not the answer.

Im totally opposed to this "FEE"
 

The Lakes Region and bodies of water in NH that attract "destination" paddle sports people from out of state probably spend $200-300 per day, to enjoy what NH has to offer them. Not to mention people who vacation here for a week or 2 from all over the country and Canada. Everyone see's the car toppers on the road with out of state plates, every where @ restaurants, convenience stores, gas stations, Motels, ect. So now they will be nickle + dimed with this "FEE", or get a citation for being unaware of this "FEE". "Conservation"...... Please. Its another BS government $$$$ grab. People dont have to come NH to spend there hard earned $ "FYI". There are plenty of places in neighbouring states to PADDLE for a weekend or the day. The $ generated wont even pay for the signs + ENFORCEMENT that will have to made, FOR people TO BE aware of this ridiculous :) F + G is 7 yrs late on their plan of their long term funding situation. So they come up with a $10 fee. This N + D mentatialy just hurts retail, and seasonal business of all kinds :)

I have always thought the kayaks & canoes should pay a small fee... and I am all for the $10.00 sticker. IF ITS MANAGED PROPERLY!

The issue I have is....

THE IDIOT REPS & SENATORS WHO THINK ITS OK TO ROB PETER TO PAY PAUL!

NH F&G has been facing declining revenues and increased costs for years. Less people hunting & fishing coupled with EXORBITANT rescue costs. Yet the Legislature has seen fit to raid F&G funds to pay for overspending the General fund!

Same goes for NHMP.... They had plenty of $$ to be self sufficient! Until the IDIOTS in Concord thought it ok to raid their $$ to help pay for overspending the General fund!!

STOP SPENDING MONEY YOU DONT HAVE!

Sorry for the rant...

Woodsy

fewer week end / vacation visitors
 

Just another reason for the out of state visitor to pick another state to visit.
If you are a power boater we have the restrictive boating license rules which have deeply cut into that business . With this restriction the folks that come up for a few days would have to stop and get a sticker " someplace " before they hit the water .

Or they can stay in their home state or go to one of the other 46 states that don't require a sticker , including Maine , Mass, RI, VT , CT .

Keep making these restrictive " Use " rules and keep watching the tourism dollars go away . what happened to live free or die ? Perhaps time to look at other sources of income like a sales tax ( opps sorry )

Good point
 

So the state gets another $10 and misses out on $1,000 in tourist spending.:(

This entire topic is complete BS! Before you know it they'll be proposing stickers for people to ride their bike to work because they can't afford the gas tax increase. Stop spending money you don't have. It's that simple.

I find it interesting that the F&G had the money to buy Downings Landing - was it just last year? Now they are broke so they need to increase fees!
Oh and they use the money generated for F&G to cover overspending in the general fund. Smells a lot like a place i know all to well to the south.

Vote these "people" out of office before its to late. Please - I don't want NH to turn into something different that what is was.

Orion...

NH has always been a "Pay To Play" state. The legislature used to be very good about keeping the funds separate. F&G was funded primarily by the hunting & fishing licenses and snowmobile/ATV registrations. NHMP was funded primarily by boat registrations. The NH State Parks were funded by access/camping fees. etc etc

I don't think an eco-friendly tourist (most canoeists and kayakers) is really going to care about a $10 access sticker as long as the sticker is EASILY obtainable (any nearby store) and the money collected is spent on F&G... not somehow appropriated to cover overspending in the General fund.

I don't have a problem with "Pay To Play".... I happily pay to register my boat, my sled, my bike and my atv! As long as the money goes where its supposed to! An extra $10 to slap a sticker on a kayak is not a big deal. As long as the money goes where its supposed to!

Woodsy

Don't have a clue why the bought Downings if they had this kind of financial problems. They should just start collecting launch fees, I don't think anyone would have a problem since it was well used during Downing ownership.

All for it, as long as the money is left in the F&G fund. Kayakers, and other human powered craft, use the lakes resources, boat ramps etc, just as much as powered craft. If you can buy a $1000 kayak I think the $10 won't break the bank.

Government will never have enough money. The more they have the more they spend it on.

This in not just a fee for kayaks as the title of this thread implies. If you read carefully it is for all "non-motorized vessels".

Section 270-D:1 Definitions.
"Boat'' means every description of watercraft other than seaplanes, capable of being used or used as a means of transportation on the water and which is primarily used for noncommercial purposes, or leased, rented, loaned or chartered to another for such use.

It includes canoes, pedal boats, row boats, small sailboats, surf boards, inflatable rafts, wind surfers, even an inner tube or inflatable toys!

"Capable of being used or used as a means of transportation on the water" is a very broad definition.

Common copout
 

Not everyone has a $1000 kayak, they are available for $250 new, $100 or less used, sometimes a gift. The misconception that everyone on the lake in some form of watercraft is rich with deep pockets is getting tiring. Many people scrimp and scrape to be able to get out on the lake. They don't necessarily have piles of money in reserve to keep funding misguided government programs. Most people today have tightened their belts and expect their elected leaders to at least consider the concept.

My apologies. Not all kayaks are expensive, however I still think $10 is a fair fee.
(oh and I might think this is Karma for all they kayakers and non powered boat owners for pushing that law we never speak of on here) :D

Take a look at SBONH website.
 

There is another RSA coming up in 2014 to raid the F&G bank. I hope it gets shot down.

I have ask Rep. Huot to issue an RSA this year to leave boat registration to marine patrol as most of that money went to 'general funds'. It went ITL, 'inexpedient to legislate' i.e. 'Don't touch the General fund so that we can spend, spend, spend.' :fire::fire::fire::fire:

You are welcome to speak of it all you want in the Speed Limits forum. I'd just like to keep the inevitable bickering out of other areas.

Here we are again, we debated this very issue a few years ago. While a 10$ fee may on the outset seem easy to deal with, for most families it will not be a simple 10$ fee. My self for instence:

2 Kayaks --> 20$
1 Canoe --> 10$

30$ total

Now if I take it to the Bear Islander extreme, for which he is right and this law could be made to apply to tubes and rafts. I end up with:

2 multi-person rafts --> 20$

for a grand total of 50$....

That on top of the Money I already pay for my boat and Jet-Ski registrations.

Now I launch on my own property, and don't use any state facilities, except for the lake itself.... Sure someday, I might need to be rescued and I am aware of that, and understand that it does cost money.... And am willing to pay for that service..

Humm they already have a law in place, that gives, the state agencies the ability to recoup the cost of a search and rescue operation don't they????

They can keep adding fees and hey maybe some day they will balance the budget.... but it doesn't mean it is fair, or the correct thing to do. I will be pefectly honest, if my family didn't have property on the Lake, I would have found a new more vacationer friendly area to spend my money.... The State of NH has increase the cost of registering boats, raised room and board taxes, all in an effort to make more money. But it doesn't seem to be helping, the bleeding never stops.... Because as they raise the fees and taxes, people find other places to go..... Sure Tourism in NH is still alive and well, but when you get down to the brass tax of it all it isn't what it was 10-15 years ago.

I have said this many time, NH needs to look at ways to make revenue, that make sense, and don't pass the burden on to the tourists only....I have said many time, add a 1% sales tax, and the state will create a stream of revenue that is unparalleled. However before that is done, the distribution of that money needs to be set up correctly. The whole problem is the State of NH never set the funding of all its branches properly, and now they are paying the price, and doing a lot of robbing from Peter to pay Paul. NH has and has had for many years a crisis with state revenue and spending. But although the promises are made to deal with it the politicians never do.... NH has to face some radical reforms in order to properly fund itself, On of which is a total redefining of how money is distributed, and raised.

Enforcement
 

I wonder if those who propose have thought this through to the end. Such as, who will be responsible for enforcing this idea and what will be the penalty for noncompliance? Do you suppose that MP will ticket those who don't have stickers? Probably not, for the money goes to F&G. Will F&G start enforcing boating laws and regulations? Oh what a quagmire they want to create. Guess there needs to be a new state agency for this purpose.

stickers?
 

Not to mention that "stickers" won't stick to most of the "floatables" mentioned prior, nor can you have a wallet on most of the items mentioned.

And Boat Trailers?
 

When it comes to the milfoil fee, wouldn't it make more sense to add a milfoil fee sticker to every boat trailer?

:confused:

...10-dollars is a good price!
 

To register a 16' boat with an outboard motor costs about $48.00, and to register a 13'10" sailboat costs about $28.00, so paying $10.00 to register a 17' aluminum canoe with no motor, or for a 12' kayak seems about right.

Hopefully, some of the ten dollar kayak/canoe/rowboat/small sailboat sticker money will go to improving access to the lakes because, as they say, the lakes are "owned" by the people of the State of New Hampshire. It is just that getting onto these publicly owned NH lakes can be a little difficult for the kayaker or trailer motor-boater.

I wonder if I'll have to put a sticker on my head just to take a swim in the lake? :rolleye1:

don't give 'em any ideas
 

$5 for a swimmer....let's not get greedy. :rolleye1:

To me, it does not make more sense to put the fee on trailers. There is already a milfoil fee in the boat sticker, so raising that fee keeps the existing methods, budgets and transfers, rather than creating a new system. What would be the advantage of putting it on the trailer anyway? Aren't there more boats than trailers?

While I understand the desire to have the state spend less money, I also believe that we are not coming close to funding the preservation or restoration of our environment. The economy in NH depends on outdoor recreation, so we can't shut down development and use of our forests and water resources, we should not be shortsighted in maintaining them. There are many volunteers willing to help, but the programs that use volunteers needs taxpayer funding.

The right discussion to have is what is really required, what is effective and how to be more efficient, more so than to say "stop spending". Another interesting discussion would be about who should spend the money. DES, F&G and Dept of Safety are all part of the solution.

Fee for Kayaks
 

What about the organizations that have "human powered vessels" as part of their operation, i.e., resorts and summer camps. This could be a real financial item to a summer camp that had a fleet of canoes and rowboats, and think of the resorts around the Lake and lakes that provide some type of small vessel for the use of their guests.

I agree with those who say that the State needs to learn to live within its budget. (Can you say D E T R O I T)

It amazes me how ignorant people are.

Institute a new fee it will never go down, only up and more will never be enough as there will always be some sob story as to why it must be increased. At some point critical mass will be reached and like it or not the state and federal government will run out of money to spend and run out of sources to get it from. Simple as that.

One well known theory proposes that all democracies are doomed to eventually fail. Once voted in, entitlements are rarely voted out, and the government eventually collapses under the weight of all the accumulated costs. See: Greece.

Something to keep in mind before voting them in.

Bicycle Registration
 

The annual $10 fee for conservation decals for kayaks & canoes is a great idea. They should expand on this idea and enact a $10 bicycle registration fee. How about a “Ball Tax”? We can charge a 10% surcharge on the purchase of any ball – baseballs, footballs, basketballs, golf balls, soccer balls. This would not only keep the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department afloat but will help the Parks Dept and the Transportation Department. How about a surcharge on running shoes and hiking boots?

Agreed 100%, its all fun and games until your passion is the focus of others. Where do I send my $10?

Your right. However the fundamental flaw isn't the entitlements themselves. I think as a civilized society and in the interest of helping those out who find themselves in a jam, being able to get some assistance isn't a bad idea in principal. The problem with things as they are now is that it has become a life long career for to many and that needs to stop. Any assistance should have a strictly enforced time limit but that will never happen because it allows politicians to essentially buy votes and influence by handing out tax payer funded "free stuff" indefinitely to those that are either to lazy or ignorant to know better... just don't stop the gravy train. It's sad and a total exploitation of the less fortunate. They become enslaved and dependent on handouts with no incentive to better themselves.

Apparently this is all based on misinformation, and no such tax/fee has been proposed
http://granitegrok.com/blog/2013/12/...beach-that-tax

Senator Robert Odell, Republican-Lempster (way up north of Littleton) is the chairman of a nine member commission that is charged with finding a new revenue source to fund the Fish & Game Dept. It seems that while Republicans are totally opposed to any new taxes, this Republican Senator Odell is the sponsor for this new ten dollar, small boat fee.

Republican chant........aOOOmm .... namaste! ....no new taxes never-ever-ever......but a fee can be okay-dokie....when there is simply no money left to put gas into the F & G pickup trucks or something like that......say-hey.....so where's the money......... honey?......where's the dough.....how do we get some bucks to pay for everything.......snore .......zzzzzzzzz ?

In addition, those who are receiving handouts should not be allowed to vote. Now they just keep reelecting the same people pushing the handouts, so it will never end.

Undersized = Better for the Lake...
 

While the Eagle-Tribune is a wide-ranging, well archived, and good general reading, these two statements from the article stood out:

:look:

But here's 80 dollars New Hampshire is missing out on!

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i1...ps38d83f26.jpg

:rolleye1:

IMHO, any boat trailer is a much better "milfoil-whacker" than any number of kayaks, inflatables, paddleboards, etc.

Lake Winnipesaukee's many three-axle trailers have an abundance of crevasses for capturing milfoil fragments amongst their six wheels, brakes, 12 to 18 spring leaves, the many clamps, hangers, shackles, U-bolts, plates, bunks, rollers, cables, brackets, and hinges—not to mention the exposed- or hidden- corners in the metal frame itself. (Or rust-perforated areas).

At one time, trailer manufacturers provided a "tilt" feature to lessen the depth to which the wheels or axles would need to be immersed; today, most trailers are largely immersed in normal operation.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i1...ps9b774e9e.jpg

If they didn't waste so much money, it would be fine to have more taxes. But if they got rid of the waste, we wouldn't need any more taxes. The problem is, whether it is the state of NH or the federal government, it is just too big and there is no one watching the hen house.

Seems fair enough
 

Do not think that this theory applies to just democracies, rather all super powers. Better example is United Kingdom. They lost their superpower status under the weight of entitlements.

Having said that.......I really do not care if they want $10 for my canoe or not. The state uses taxpayer cash for public access and I see nothing wrong in helping pay for that.

http://i52.tinypic.com/vsn94z.jpg Not to Worry, I just noticed that you are fairly new to posting on the forum and glad you have joined us. Have fun and enjoy the Winni Forum while making many new friends.
Thanks for joining in with the members.:)

http://i54.tinypic.com/2e56yqf.gif

As I've said before and will say again: Live fee or die.

And soon there will be a fee for that too.

Special use for purpose only
 

I strongly agree that special use fees should be used for the associated purpose only. Given that first condition, I have no problem with $10 fees on kayaks, canoes. These folks, I included, use the lake and require the occasional support service.

To those who support a general tax mechanism to support such activities, NO WAY! These mechanisms just put more money in the hands of the politicians to waste on "good" works. NO state that puts sales taxes or income taxes in place ever reaches the promised Nirvana of relief from other taxes or healthy funding of public services. They use the money to fund other stuff and their cronies and when money gets tight again they cut public services first to put pressure on the public to allow more taxes, which mostly go to waste and corruption. It's a well used cycle in politics to pry money from the people. The only way to come out ahead is to NOT get on the general tax train to begin with.

Possible boat tax in NH didn’t hold much water - Nashua Telegraph
 

"this was just the kind of tax scheme that would anger Joe Sixpack in an election year"... Dalton Democratic state Sen. Jeff Woodburn

I guess that would include me but I'm more like a one or two pack.

http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/news/...idnt-hold.html

Well, it was only a matter of time...

Back when we had to sell our house on the Lake after 67 years, I decided to bring home both the canoe and kayak that were normally stored in the boathouse all winter. We have ample water down here, and I can always strap 'em to the roof when visiting the Lake as a nomad...

So I started spelunking the local DNR and Boat sites, as a friend had mentioned he needed a "Launch Permit" to put his yak in State waters...huh? Well, I found that was true, and bought a two-year launch permit for the canoe. Great. Done.

Not so fast...

The lake near my office here in PA is in a county park. And, in addition to the State launch permit, the county requires a use permit -- another $25 annually.

Something tells me that Pennsylvania doesn't want me paddling...anywhere.

Anyway, until now I always pointed to New Hampshire, saying, "Well, look at New Hampshire -- they don't have any of these stupid stickers required for canoes and kayaks!!!"

Great. So now when I come up to the Lake, I'll need yet another sticker, and have to make yet another stop to register a watercraft that'll be wet just a few times.

I can envision them now making you register your SCUBA tanks...that's when I call uncle and go rogue.

As you were...

Who's waterways are these, anyway?
 

Not really trying to be religious here, but weren't all the waterways (for the most part) put here by "God" for our use? What gives ANYONE the right to take money from someone to use a God-given, natural asset? I have the same problem with National Parks and their exorbitant fees.:(

Why can't the small sail & human powered craft kick in? Are they not using the some of the same resources the power boaters use? Do they not occasionally require the services of NHMP or NHF&G?

Nobody seems to have a problem with Power Boaters paying registration fees. (myself included). It was money that USED (thanks to Gov. Lynch) to be untouchable and go into the Navigation fund to pay for NHMP etc.... Now it gets raided to help pay for deficits in the General Fund, leaving NHMP underfunded..... Robbing from Peter to pay Paul!

Unless we want to drown under a mountain of debt, we have to accept a "Pay to Play" system. AS long as the $$$ are not used anywhere else, I am ok with it.

Woodsy

How about cutting spending?
 

Pay to play?
Pay to walk?
Pay to look?
Pay to breath?

Sailboats do already kick in.....even a Sunfish is required to pay.

The problem is governments, as a whole, are not good stewards of our money. When they run out, they just raise the rates or add new sources rather than look for ways to gain efficiencies or, heaven forbid, cut someone's pet project. For example, why is it that two towns on the Lake charge such different tax rates, one being more than double, almost triple, the other. Or as others have said in this thread, they raid "dedicated" funds to solve problems in the General Fund. Sometimes enough IS enough.

You already pay to walk and ride a bike, unless the only walking and riding you do is on your own land, which you kind of pay to do that as well.
Pay to look, if you want to stop in front of my house to enjoy my view of the surrounding mountains, you will have to pay me a fee to help offset the view tax I pay. That is the only way you get to see the other side of the fence.;)

National Parks, State Parks, lakes, rivers, etc. are pay to use, because WE as a country decided that we wanted to protect these areas for future generations. This costs money! The impact on waterways is reduced by having designated launch sites along the shores. The purchase, installation and maintenance of these sites is performed by F&G in this state.

I am all for smaller gov't and reduced spending, but these are not the areas that I am willing to see go away as a part of that. I will gladly put a sticker on my watercraft and continue to use them as I do now. I have been in favor of something like this for years. The only watercraft I currently own are paddle craft, so this impacts me in 100% of my water sports activities.

There are plenty of overpaid and under worked folks in most every department at all levels. The tell for me, that that is true, is when a major environmental event or other act impacts an area, there is a posting on most every major media outlet that NON-ESSENTIAL GOV'T EMPLOYEES need to stay home. Start you cutting there!

I for one am invested in protecting the waterways and natural areas for my and future generations.

I also agree that if F&G was in a pinch financially that the purchase of Downing's, should have never been brought to the table. The idea of having a free state launch on Winni is a great one, but this should have been tabled until the funds could have been raised and perhaps at that point another location could have been looked into, if Downing's was no longer available.

This type of thinking is distorted, but it is also the mindset of many of our neighbors! Buying more than you can cover with existing income!

Too bad
 

Winni had the perfect pay for play launch site that didn't cost the taxpayers a dime, in fact it paid taxes! It was called Ames Farm.

fee for kayaks
 

We paddle and don't mind supporting the management and stewardship of our precious water resources by paying a fee. It's not as simple and laid back around the lakes as it was growing up in the 50's and 60's. People, people everywhere - with all the challenges that growth and usership bring.

So lets think about some things here....

1. State buying Downings Landing..... This actually makes sense, there has been Good state facility on the lake... This is also in line with what the state is doing on other lakes as well... Squam, and Winnisquam both now have state owned facilities for launching and parking. This helps bring in tourist $$$$$, as it is easy to draw people in when they have facilities that can be used conveniently and at no cost, to launch and retrieve boats. While you can play all kinds of games, with Money and state that this was a bad time for Fish and Game to spend that kind of Money, the reality is that the state had been looking for a while at how to provide a state maintained ramp and parking facility on the lake. To top that off, expenditures such as this, are often not part of the operating budget of the Agency, and are funded, separately.

2. What are the impacts of requiring people to register canoes and kayaks.....
-- It will deter people who normally use NH waterways once or twice a year, from wanting to continue to do so
-- It will bring about a decline in sales of such equipment
-- It will give a new source of income for the state, which if not properly legislated will just end up in the general fund.
-- It brings about the need for man power to enforce cost the state more money

People need to stop trying to blend issues... yep you can bring the purchase of Downings into this argument, but it isn't proper to do so... Really what is at stake here is my #2 of things to think about... Does the fee associated with having people register canoes and kayaks, off set, the loss of tourism $$, the inevitable decline in sales and over all effect on the economy, the fact the money will end up in the general fund, and the additional costs of enforcing this new law, make it worth while.....

NH has an issue, like most states, it has lost track of how to fund itself... The legislators keep trying to find sneaky ways to bring in more money, but the reality of the problem is that anyway they have to bring in more money, has to be enforced... that cost money. Fees on recreational activies, always had a negative effect on those activities, history will shows us that. So the question is can NH afford the Fee for Canoes, and Kayaks... As the state can't afford to fund itself right now, I believe the answer is no....

Info on the funding of Downing's purchase
 

From Foster's Democrat article on the purchase:

http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20121128/GJNEWS_01/121129308/-1/FOSNEWS

Reason to purchase:

Downing's Landing appealed to the state because it already contains the necessary components on site, Normandeau said. When the state built a ramp on Winnisquam Lake in Laconia four years ago, it used free land from the city, but still spent about $1.7 million to build the facility, he said.

“Here, we've got a ramp that basically we can start using tomorrow for $1 million,” he said.

Funding portion is as follows:

The purchase is being funded from two sources, according to Normandeau. One pot of money is boat registration fees, which yield $5 a piece for a Fish and Game's Public Boat Access Program. Maintenance of the department's 134 public boat ramps is funded by the registration fees.

The state will also use federal dollars from the Sport Fish Restoration Act, derived from a marine gas tax.

I thought it was a good idea at the time, and still think it was a good idea. JMHO. Yours may vary

The enforcement issue will be key. That's a lot of territory to cover and a lot of kayaks and canoes to monitor.

Woodsy
 

Start counting :) Every body of water, 10 acres or more will need a sign:)
http://des.nh.gov/organization/commi...ments/olpw.pdf Whats next, Lease Ice Shack Space / Sq Ft? :rolleye2:

....a ten-dollar F & G sticker is a bargain!
 

Probably, the people with the least problem affording a ten-dollar sticker will be the one's paddling or rowing a Ranger Canoe, www.rangercanoe.com which is made in Ashland NH, across the road from the Squam River outlet of Little Squam Lake. Compared to a used canoe purchased on craigslist for maybe 300-500 dollars, or less, the Ranger Canoes go for the big, big money.....a luxurious light-weight canoe selling for maybe $1400 so's the ten-dollar sticker will probably not even be an after-thought for the Ranger Canoe owner ... ten dollars ... well worth it ... after all ... it will help pay for the access launch facilities needed to get to the New Hampshire rivers and lakes.

When you go hike a trail in the White Mountain National Forest, it costs you either three-dollars for a one-day parking voucher, or twenty-dollars for a one-year windshield sticker for your car, and to park it there at the trail head, and the money pays for the White Mountain National Forest hiking trails and parking.

....a ten dollar F & G sticker is a bargain!
 

....you know....considering what the proposed, ten-dollar canoe or kayak or rowboat or sailboat less than 12', Fish & Game sticker program will help to pay...it is a great bargain....

If you have ever car-topped a kayak or canoe, then you know that a launching spot with parking plays a big part in canoing/kayaking. By paying just ten dollars/year for a sticker you are supporting the program....

....as a local and long-time builder of very high quality, super light-weight canoes, www.rangercanoe.com, I am a little surprised that you do not support the proposed ten dollar/year sticker program, when you consider what it does....maybe you want to re-think your position on this, or something?

....so, let's get with the program ... hut-hut-hut! .. ;):D

I think its a bit over the top to suggest that a $10 fee will send tourists to other states. If they are coming to Winni for a week, they are already spending "thousands" and another $10 is not going to drive them away. Maine has been requiring a $10 invasive species sticker for years and while inconvenient to have to remember to get one, it is not a deterrent for me to visit. I'm sure people will be more annoyed by getting hit with fines for not knowing but, like Maine, visitors will become aware as time goes on and accept the expense.

Also, most of your boaters fees goes into a public access fund to pay for sites like Downes Landing and maintenance costs all over the state. These are the same landing/launches used by canoes and yaks. People using these craft also rely on Fish and Game and Marine patrol for assistance and should pay their share. Yes, I have a canoe and I pay registration on it (because I have a trolling motor I use sometimes on it). I have no problem kicking in another $10 and I certainly am not rich.

Like many, I am more concerned about a history of mis-management of funds and raiding of funds raised by the above activities to pay for mis-management of the general fund. I don't like that a "Conservation and History" license plate is offered. The funds from this go to both Conservation and Historical efforts whereas I think they should separate these two efforts so you can direct your money to where you want it. Both are important but by combining them, I see that as another way of raiding Conservation funds.

I trailered my Jet Ski to sebago lake In maine last summer . I didn't think twice about paying the ten dollar fee for maines Invasive species sticker. I think Its a great program

:D

Your right this is a good program.... but that is because it is set up correctly....

taking 10$ for every kayak, and saying it is to go into the Fish and Game budget which can then get funneled back to the general fund... Is just a state being creative, trying to find more money.

Here's an email letter I just received form NH F&G.

News from the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department
Phone: (603) 271-3211
Email: info@wildlife.nh.gov
For information and online licenses, visit http://www.wildnh.com

* * * * * * *

CONTACT:
Executive Director Glenn Normandeau: 603-271-3511

December 20, 2013


EVERYONE BENEFITS FROM FISH AND GAME; LET'S WORK TOGETHER ON A FUNDING SOLUTION

By Glenn Normandeau, Executive Director, N.H. Fish and Game Department

It seems like everyone is talking about canoe and kayak decals these days. I am writing in response to the volume of public comment the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department has received recently following news reports about the recommendations of the Commission on Fish and Game Department Sustainability. One of several possible revenue sources it recommended considering was a non-motorized watercraft decal. In fact, no laws have been passed or decisions made yet on that or other ideas for generating future funding.

The Commission is a Legislative body established last year to look at the funding gap between what the Department takes in and the revenue we need to fulfill all of our obligations to the residents and guests of New Hampshire. In spite of significant reductions in personnel over the last three biennial budgets, rising costs are still outpacing revenue. This gap is a serious problem, and time is short. Unless something changes, the Fish and Game Fund will be depleted by the end of this biennium (June 30, 2015). Given our mission of conserving the state's fish, wildlife and marine resources and their habitats, it would be irresponsible for us to sit back and do nothing.

What's at stake are the services people across the state count on the Fish and Game Department to provide, from managing wildlife populations to rescuing hikers, stocking fish and building boat ramps. It takes financial resources for the Fish and Game Department to do its job properly.

The citizens of New Hampshire care deeply about the state's fish and wildlife, land conservation, and access to public waters. Fish and Game is the agency that protects and maintains these valued resources, which not only have significant intrinsic value in their own right, but are a powerful economic engine for New Hampshire. Hunting, fishing and wildlife watching alone contribute approximately $550 million annually to the economy of the state.

As the budget was hammered out for the current biennium, the Legislature recognized the importance of finding new revenue for Fish and Game, and had the foresight to set up the Sustainability Commission. This body is proceeding to look for a solution in a reasonable, responsible manner. Along the way, they will be listening to public concerns.

The commission cares about impacts of various revenue-raising ideas on particular publics. That said, they also recognize that all citizens, as well as the guests that fund our second largest state industry, tourism, benefit from the services provided by Fish and Game, while the majority of the financial burden of operating the Department has been squarely on the shoulders of the state’s sportsmen and women who hunt and fish.

We look forward to the discussion in the coming months, as the Sustainability Commission works with the Fish and Game Department and the public to find new revenues to fill the gap. I intend to strive for an outcome where a means can be found by which the broader public that benefits from Fish and Game’s services contributes to its operation. I honestly believe that most people who enjoy New Hampshire's outdoors and value our quality of life are willing to do their part. Let's focus our energies on finding a solution together. Thank you for your interest and engagement as we go forward. Read the Sustainability Commission's initial report and learn more at http://www.wildnh.com/funding.

- ### -

We pay something on the order of $200.00 per year to register our little fleet including roughly $48.00 for a 16 foot sailboat with no engine. On one hand, being able to have the fleet and the front row seat on this amazing lake to use them is a very good problem to have; believe me when I say that I know we've been blessed. On the other hand, where does this stuff end? We have 3 kayaks and they get a lot of use. Another $30.00 a year might not bring us to the tipping point but sometimes it's the principal of the thing. We already pay a lot in fees and taxes as it is. I'm getting a little tired of hearing they need to find new revenues and getting "fee'd" to death as a result. Exactly how did they get things done in the past without all the fees? Then again, when I was a kid the Marine Patrol got by with part time officers and much more modest boats. Now we have "Homeland Security" specials with 400+ HP on the transom and every other bell & whistle imaginable. I guess I just wish there could be a little more balance and common sense when these type of things get suggested. And yes, next I'll be yelling at kids to get off my lawn... :D

We pay something on the order of $200.00 per year to register our little fleet including roughly $48.00 for a 16 foot sailboat with no engine. On one hand, being able to have the fleet and the front row seat on this amazing lake to use them is a very good problem to have; believe me when I say that I know we've been blessed. On the other hand, where does this stuff end? We have 3 kayaks and they get a lot of use. Another $30.00 a year might not bring us to the tipping point but sometimes it's the principal of the thing. We already pay a lot in fees and taxes as it is. I'm getting a little tired of hearing they need to find new revenues and getting "fee'd" to death as a result. Exactly how did they get things done in the past without all the fees? Then again, when I was a kid the Marine Patrol got by with part time officers and much more modest boats. Now we have "Homeland Security" specials with 400+ HP on the transom and every other bell & whistle imaginable. I guess I just wish there could be a little more balance and common sense when these type of things get suggested. And yes, next I'll be yelling at kids to get off my lawn... :D

....and it's a safe assumption(?) that Ames Farm continues to pay huge property taxes to the Town of Gilford even after losing its boat launch business due to a zoning issue brought to bear by a neighbor-abutter attorney????

...it was pretty usual for the NH Fish & Game to set up a fish inspection station at Ames .....during the fishing tournaments for bass or trout/salmon

For the new ramp, $10 per kayak isn't much money...
 

• They spent $1 Million they didn't have.

:eek2:

• But it was Other People's Money, so spend it they did.

:rolleye2:

• Why aren't paddlers delighted to use the new launching ramp for only a $10 annual "fee"?

:rolleye1:

• Where I'm vacationing presently, each county in the state can vote themselves an increase in the local sales tax. Somebody's bright idea has TV commentators describing the proposed increase as the "one-penny sales tax".

:idea:

Welcome to NH, now go home
 

Just a story to pass along, I remember some years back when they raised the Fee in on Non powered boats over a certain length , (I don’t remember the length). A nice couple from Conn. Rented the cottage next to mine for along time. He loved his little Sail boat. It was small the type you sit on not in. he pushed it to the water with a one wheeled contraption. Well this particular year it rained all week and he couldn’t sail. Saturday morning the skies cleared. (the day he was leaving) I wished him a good sail as he went to the water. I little while later a dejected sailor returns, I asked him how it went. He said he had got a Ticket from the marine patrol . I asked for what. It seems his sail boat was now 6 inches to long. And needed to be registered. His ticket was a outrageous amount. I don’t recall how much.
But it seems to me as NH we love to raise our money on tourism. It would have been an opportunity to make friends instead of driving people away. People don’t have to Vacation here in NH they can go other places. But we are a changing place .we are becoming the place that people are trying to get away from.

By the looks of it you have two homes, I don't think the $30.00 is going to put you into the poor house. Yes I understand NH is know for all these fees but look at what a beautiful state we live in...somebody has to pay. You cannot have nice things and not pay for them.Its that simple!!

In reply to Winnisquamguy, yes you're correct, however I think you may have missed my initial point. We've worked hard for many years to get to the point we're at and are very aware of how fortunate we've been. No, another 30 bucks isn't going to ruin us , I guess I'm just asking where this type of thing ends? Does everything end up being fair game for an additional revenue stream?

You and I can't spend money we don't have and not have to deal with the consequences. If F&G is having revenue issues how about looking in the mirror first before just dreaming up another fee? For instance, did they really need a roughly $100,000.00 Donzi center console to patrol the lake? It's a nice boat but from what I've observed over the years it spends most of it's time tied up at the town pier in 19 Mile Bay. The earlier posts describing the thinking that went into purchasing Downing's Landing first and figuring out the finances later are just baffling to me. That just wouldn't happen for the rest of us.

Kayak Fee DOA in NH Legislature?
 

This was in The Boston Globe and The Citizen last week:

CONCORD, N.H. (AP) — A legislative study group is floating the idea of imposing fees on canoes and kayaks in New Hampshire, but some lawmakers say the plan would sink like a stone.

The legislative Commission on Fish and Game Department Sustainability is recommending a $10 annual fee for no-motorized vessels.

State Sen. Jeff Woodburn of Dalton told WMUR-TV (http://bit.ly/19qIUmW) that the idea is dead on arrival in the Legislature, but state Sen. Bob Odell says lawmakers need to take a serious look at getting people to pay for the services they enjoy outdoors.

Fish and Game director Glenn Normandeau says at the very least, there needs to be a discussion given that the department’s costs are outpacing revenues even with significant personnel reductions in the last several years. Unless something changes, the Fish and Game Fund will be depleted by July 2015, he said.


‘‘I honestly believe that most people who enjoy New Hampshire’s outdoors and value our quality of life are willing to do their part,’’ he said. ‘‘Given our mission of conserving the state’s fish, wildlife and marine resources and their habitats, it would be irresponsible for us to sit back and do nothing.’’

‘‘I honestly believe that most people who enjoy New Hampshire’s outdoors and value our quality of life are willing to do their part,’’ he said. ‘‘Given our mission of conserving the state’s fish, wildlife and marine resources and their habitats, it would be irresponsible for us to sit back and do nothing.’’

Ok based on that why don't they just increase the Hooksett toll to Ten bucks a way and hit everybody !!! Seriously , the state needs tax reform VERY badly. These nickel and dime solutions are driving people away . do a sales tax or income tax and get rid of the junk fees

"That Man Behind the Tree" Flies an Ultralight...
 

'Can't disagree. (This time). ;)

Then again, New Hampshire hasn't charged a fee for "vessels" that leak gasoline, and whose rescues never come cheap.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopo...it_8795AsW.jpg

(Credit: Photopost)...

APS...

Insurance usually covers the cost of recovery or any environmental fees/fines with regards to sunken vessels. The state rarely pays if at all. I know the insurance on my boat has an environmental EPA rider included. Up to $500K I think and they cover the cost of recovery. There are also maritime salvage laws that come into play as well. The small float planes and sleds don't carry enough gas/oil to warrant an environmental hazard as long as they are recovered quickly.

F&G has a tough road ahead financially. I don't have a problem with spreading the wealth to the kayakers/canoeists/sailboaters/hikers etc who enjoy the resources & protection that the F&G dept provides. Just make sure you write the law in such a way that the $$ raised cannot be raided for the General Fund.

Woodsy

Write the law the way you want it. When the next legislature comes along will not be able to recognize the original law after they get their paws on it. With the legislature in session hide the women and children and duck for cover.

Si-ology
 

If the platform is to rob Peter to pay Paul, you will always have Paul's support.

-John Bernard Shaw:coolsm:

No more fees for ANYTHING. Period.

Until the state can get their spending in check ($500k urban assault vehicles, millions in "where did it go?" spending, etc.), they should not get ONE PENNY MORE. New Hampshire should be a model for how things are done right... We're partway there with our legislative payment system, but the influx of others from elsewhere are screwing **** up.

Fix what we have FIRST. Then, if more monies are needed, appropriate them properly. Screwing people that come here and have zero impact (if not a net positive impact) on our ecological state is a big **** to them, and they'll take their money elsewhere.

Better
 

How about a swimming permit or an inner tube sticker :confused:
How much will the sunset or a cool breeze cost.. im thinking ten bucks each :confused:

You know that will never happen.... As long as the politicians are making the laws they will not allow that type of rider on a law....

NH is still trying to rob Peter to pay Paul....

NH funding is still completely Broken....

Charging ten dollars per year for kayak, canoes, rowboats, and small sailboats under 12', not counting the rudder, seems like an excellent idea. Not only will it raise needed money for the Fish & Game Dept and maybe for the state parks system but it will also enhance the use one gets out of a small boat because using the small boat will be appreciated more when it comes with a price like this and at ten dollars/year.....it is a super-duper steal of a deal......just like the 20-dollar White Mountain National Forest yearly windshield sticker that allows you to park at a WMNF hiking trail.


For just ten bucks........this proposed kayak sticker, as it is called, would still be a steal of a deal at twice the price or twenty dollars.


Plus, it should empower the Fish & Game Dept to go after people from Massachusetts who get caught kayaking without a valid sticker and wack them with a 200-dollar violation or something like that!!!! .... ;):laugh: .....okey-dookey......u get caught paddling without a valid sticker......and it will cost you some big money.........hee-hee-hee-hee......this ticket is for you! .. :patriot::banana:

No more fees
 

We have three kayaks. They may get uses once a year or less. Paying 30 dollars just in case we might use them is ridiculous.... on top of the boat fee, the jetski fee, real estate taxes, etc. I vote no.



IG

Republicans vote NO
 

from the Daily Sun

Food for thought
 

For all these years our Fish & Game Dept. services have been paid for primarily by hunters, anglers, and motorboats. In the case of motorboat registration, $5 is supposed to go into a dedicated fund to help pay for acquiring new public water access sites and mainatining the approx. 146 that F&G already owns/controls. BTW, about half of these sites are cartop only . . .so the motorboaters have been (and still are) paying for water access for canoes and kyaks. Non-mortorized craft often park and launch from boat ramp sites that were primarily designed for motorboats In addition, it is the motorboaters who also pay into the milfoil fund when they register each year. I own a canoe too and I pay nothing for the above.

Most of us believe in the fairness of "User Benefit . . . User Pay"

Here's an idea . . . implement the modest $10 annual decal. However, if you are a current holder of a fishing or hunting license or have a motorboat registration you are exempted because you have already paid.

That's the answer!
 

Now that's an approach I can agree with.:)

WE have the same situation because we have more than one boat. Two of the boats gets used, the others not so much. I don't know why we keep them really. Just because we have them I guess.

I'm in the same boat. ;) Anyone want to buy two kayaks? I have two that haven't been used much lately.

When I show up at a boat launch at 6am to launch and can not park because the lot is full and 3/4 of the spots are taken by kayakers it is unfair and frustrating. I have paid money into the system which built and maintains the launch, the kayakers have not. How can we come up with a fair solution for everyone? As of right now boaters are paying the way for canoes/kayaks/cartops. All of which require F&G or Marine Patrol as much as boaters.

A kayaker calls Marine Patrol to complain about something, Marine Patrol must take their complaint even though they have not paid in the system and act on the complaint which costs money. This is being paid for by boat owners.

Someone in a canoe takes on water and is sinking, Marine Patrol is called and tows the canoe in, this costs money, yet the canoe owner has not paid in the system, how is this fair?

We all have a right to access the waters of the State and use them for whatever we like, but the ramps and services we all use need to be paid for, and it is time that we all share the burden.

As far as the sticker driving away tourists, Maine has seen no decline in tourism since instituting their decal program.

It has been mentioned on here that this would be a burden for resorts that have 30 kayaks, these resorts all are there to make a profit, if the kayak does not generate $10 per year in profit they can either get rid of it, or charge someone a $1 to use the kayak...problem solved.

Everyone loves a free ride, eventually someone has to foot the bill, and that time is now.

Sorry to be long winded and angry about the subject, but this subject hits a nerve.

3 kayaks, use the jetskiis
 

We have 3 kayaks, rarely used. Guest like them. We do not use ramps or parking. I don't want to pay anymore than I already do for my power boats. Perhaps we can get kayak decals free with the registration of a boat, or a tax bill for island property.

I do understand the frustration and unfairness of some boaters not paying their fair share. I just pay enough already.

Me thinks that there will be a flood of 'kayak(s) for sale' on the classifieds soon.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

Why don't we just hand over our pay check to the government and let them take what they want and then what's left over they can give it to us.

Tax this, and tax that, fund government for this, and fund government that ...when is this BS going to stop.

All of these government agencies need to get their house in order and stop all this wanting more from the citizens of this country.

I think there will be many for sale as well. That is quite fine, as there are plenty of people that will use them and chip in the decal fee.

Honestly I am not sure how many more times the overall group of boaters (power, paddle and sail) can be divided. These dividing issues are becoming tiresome.

If you register your boat, you get a decal good for ONE paddle craft.
If you purchase your hunting license, you get a decal good for ONE paddle craft.
If you purchase a decal for a paddle craft, you get a decal good for ONE paddle craft.

Have more than one paddle craft, the additional are on you. Property location should not be an exemption (that is also a choice).

There needs to be a Commercial tag that is reasonable that covers a certain number of boats. I have discussed this exact issue with a family member that is a Registered Maine Canoe Guide. He thinks it is a great idea, but would think that something should be put in place as a commercial fleet fee, I happen to agree.

The idea that someone is not going to purchase a new canoe @$600 and up or kayak @$200 and up, just because of a $10 decal is laughable. Right up there with "if they didn't have us waterfront tax payers, this town would fold" crowd. Get a grip on things, step aside and see how many join the line!

I would rather have a fee attached to something that I choose to participate in than a tax that I don't benefit from!

Almost everything we discuss on this Forum is related to a choice we made willingly. I did not choose to be represented by many of our elected officials, but I chose to live where I do and play how I play! If the government selects the activities I choose as a cash cow, then so be it, I again am saddled with another decision!

Why? Didn't the bill change to increase boat registrations and scrap the kayaks plan? No need to sell the paddleboat?

Fees For Kayaks
 

Here's a little Factoid that might interest you guys up at the lake. A few years ago down here in Newport (RI) we were having a perceived problem with "Squatters" in Newport Harbor...at least the way I understood it. Squatters didn't pay taxes. NOT Good. :look:

Newport (I think) decided that "Mooring Floats" needed to be Registered with the State... As Boats. Bow numbers, stickers, and all. :)

A "Mooring Float" is a "permanent" floating dock.. moored/anchored away from shore, which can accommodate two or more larger vessels...tied up on either side of the float. The mooring float is intended to save space..ie swinging room in a Tight harbor where room was at a premium.

The registration of mooring floats as boats didn't last long. :look: NB

I wasn't serious and haven't really been following this, but as someone pointed out in another thread, this is a first world problem. You have two homes, several boats, all sorts of gadgets, and I'm supposed to have sympathy for you? Not from this socialist (pssst...I believe in universal healthcare and wish FDR had lived to see his economic bill of rights come to be).

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

I pray that you're right. ;)

Just curious
 

Just curious . . . about businesses that rent canoes and/or kayaks . . . what do they charge per hour to rent?

River Run Deli, Rte 28, Alton...
 

They are located about a quarter mile south of the Alton Circle, and they rent Kayak, PFD, and paddle for $25 per day. Normally open from around May 1 to Oct. 12th.

In the past, you could transport them away as opposed to putting them into the Merrymeeting River adjacent to the deli.

Ph 603-875-1000

Here is their website: http://www.rrdeli.com/

We rented on Mother's Day two years ago, and wife's was free (Happy Mother's day) and mine was only $15. Spent about 4 plus hours on the Merrymeeting, and as a bonus, we got wraps, chips, dessert, and drinks to go with us. One stop shopping at its best.

Well Sir, If you show up at the F+G boat ramp on Squam Lake with your car top canoe or kayak and park. Your car will be TOWED because you have to have a trailer hooked to your auto @ this (ONLY) public access to Squam. Two years ago, 2 ladies from Mass payed $325, because their car was towed all the way to Bristol because of some crazy towing rotation contract (?) I talked to these people at the ramp, who taught their car was stolen. PD told them it was towed. They didn't see the tiny sign saying you need a trailer. And FYI, You better get to the Squam ramp before 5am to beat the bass boat crowd. :D Whats Hunting + fishing got to do with paddling anyway. Most paddlers don't shoot and gut a deer, trust me :liplick: Rusty has it right, Amen brother, Hut Hut. Now its Milfoil $ grab.

Did this ever go through- http://www.wmur.com/escape-outside/c...k/-/index.html?

We have kayaks and plan to use them once we get there, do we need to register them, take the boating course?

The last I heard they had dropped the idea, and the boating course is only required if you have more than a 25hp motor on the boat. Though I think it isn't a bad idea to take the course anyway. it is pretty simple course, and covers NH laws/rules well. When Grandma and I took it neither of us had any boating experience at all, and we both passed easily. The instructor did a great job of covering everything. The NH course is NASBLA certified, so the NH certificate is good in any state requiring a NASBLA certificate.